Mitch wish you would have tossed people like Stan efferding, John hollingshead, Jordan Peterson and Iain Valleire. Stan dominated the 275 and the other 3 have moved very notable loads on a barbell!
@@williambrinkmeier1772 lol I literally just watched it the other day...8 45lb plates on a barbell (not Smith machine). For his 2009 amazing Olympia...he did NOT say that
in 1980: World Record Squat: 832 lbs, Bench Press: 612 lbs, Dead Lift: 738 lbs. When you say all time, it's not a fair comparison when you are talking about decades of technical, drug and training improvements. Better to compare him for the time. I think comparing him to these world records give a better comparison - don't you? If we are being fair.
If you compare Kaz's numbers the same way, you could say he was not that strong when you compare it to every lifter since the 1980's - some 40 years plus.
Deadlifting 700lbs for a triple at 185 while not even training for powerlifting is hugely impressive. And back in the 70s it's downright crazy. Come on, Franco was actually strong.
@@seanm3933 Except they don't support the title ofthe video, some of these lifts are in the top 1000 of all time and bodybuilders aren't even training for pure strength.
@@asprinklingofclouds your correct it’s just click bait of the highest order. Mitch’s arrogance is starting to get to me and I used to be a big fan of his.
Couldn't the counter argument be that despite their non-specificity in powerlifting they accomplished pretty sizeable strength feats and therefore are STRONG?
He is comparing Elite body builders to Elite powerlifters. In comparison they are "weak". It all relative, if you compare these same body builders to just the average gym bro, they are top 1%.
I’m thinking about how many powerlifters that tried to lift more than these guys never did. When a side effect of you being in the top of your sport is that you’re top 300 in another out of thousands that never made it, weak is a “strong” word to use.
@@seanm3933 It is a clickbait title in that bodybuilders are clearly not "weak" nor did Hooper insinuate they were, In fact they are very strong HOWEVER they are not as strong as powerlifters which we all know. The title could have said - why bodybuilders are not as strong as strength athletes/powerlifters. Many would have their attention drawn to the photo of Coleman and the title "bodybuilders are weak"
Even worse, "strength athletes" cut range of motion, get fat to cut range of motion even more, and how is "strength" measured in one rep, considering humans have needed "strength" across MANY REPS of almost anything to accomplish anything physical.
Agreed. Ive been training for 11 years, i met many bodybuilders and powerlifters. Bodybuilders are very strong but they perform reps slowly and aim for muscle pump which is why they dont need big weights. There is an instance when bodybuilders are weak, and those are bodybuilders with fake muscle called synthol. As we know, fake muscle doea not have strength...
I don't agree with the idea that if your lift is not top 10, 50 or 100 ever, that your weak. Not every competition has world record lifts or lifters, to say a 700 deadlift at 185, or 800 plus squat is not competitive is just not true. Those are elite numbers.
I think the point is for an Elite bodybuilder with massive size it is surprisingly weaker than one would expect. I think no one does really consider it weak compared to the average person
Yeah, top thousand all time when there's billions of people is crazy. Even if you account for untested athletes and just multiply the rankings by 10 just to be certain, that's still literally one in a million.
Agreed. If you go by numbers and the world's population...yeah these bodybuilders are way stronger than the average gym going male or any male, period.
agreed. Someone with a top physique in the world that is able to place in the top 1000 lifts OF ALL TIME is wildly impressive. Whereas the top strength athletes in the world probably wouldn't even place in a local bodybuilding competition let alone be able to get on an IFBB stage. Even that picture of Eddie Hall at his absolute BEST wouldn't place 1000th in the top esthetic physiques ever.
The funny thing is that if it came to perfect form with slow and controlled reps who could do more reps with moderate weight bodybullders win there. But obviously not one rep max or low rep heavy sets.
@@mitchellhooperstrongman it literally doesn't matter if he watched or not, your clickbait title is just low-level marketing, you're aim is to be better than that.
@mitchellhooperstrongman Mitch you are not funny or 'cool' Stop with the clickkbait crappy titles for your cringe rubbish videos and also stop with your failed attempts at being like Eddie Hall in your shorts. You are not him and never will be, and by the way, I would say this to your face before you think I wouldn't
You know that anything below 3% body fat is fatal right? He was never at 1% body fat. Also, Ronnie is a genetic freak, not everyone can do what he could.
"At the top level" yeah, we know. But you're talking about like 100 people total out of the hundreds of thousands, if not millions, of lifting enthusiasts out there. For pretty much anyone hearing the message, getting bigger will help you get stronger and getting stronger will help you get bigger. For 99.999% of us, size and strength do go hand in hand.
I think a lot of bodybuilders can compete in powerlifting and do fairly well. But not strongman. Most bodybuilders are short (under 6'), in strongman, height is a major benefit.
@@mitchellhooperstrongman Yes but Mariusz Pudzianowski and Mark Felix were bodybuilders.However they are the exception to he rule but genrally bodybuilders are good as powerlifters but not as strongmen.
Breaking news: Training for something makes you better at something, while not training for something does not make you better at something. No seriously though, if you wanna be strong, just lift heavy weights. If you wanna be big, do bodybuilding.
yeah training your muscles to be big will only let you do a double squat of 800 pounds. You might as well at that point call your wife to carry your groceries for you
@@g7majoh125 Different eras. There are no bodybuilders in this generation that would ever go heavy on any lift, as in going for a double, period as they would feel that it is not worth, would drain energy and not produce optimal muscle gains. Bodybuilders in the 80´s did lots of HEAVY doubles, 5x5 e.t.c. Bodybuilders in this generation will not do anything less than 8 reps, heck even 10-15 reps is very common. If Mitchell were to go at THIS instead of what he was talking about then it would make more sense.
@@bestopinion9257 I you want to be part of the elite then yes, you need to have luck with your genetics. However, everyone can still get stronger than they are now (barring some specific muscular diseases). At the end of the day the goal is to get stronger than you were yesterday, not to be stronger than some guy that lifts for a living, does a ton of roids and has supreme genetics for lifting.
@@unluckygamer692 Look at this guy, owner of the channel saying the bodybuilders are weak because they are not top in powerlifting - all time records. So you are doomed to be weak no matter what you do. Because most likely you will not be top level in powerlifting.
@@wafflesmcgallagher934 no conditioning, high body fat, no leanness, poor genetic insertions like Eddie hall or Robert oberst. Oh also any physique that isn’t open ifbb…
Some guys can do 20 cm range 400 kg sumo deadlift but that is all they can do. Do not ask them about curls, rows, pushes. But hey hey, they are "strong" because powerlifting says so.
Check out Kyle Kirvay, an IFBB bodybuilder but also powerlifter. In raw powerlifting he did 400 kg/882 lbs on squat, 278 kg/612 lbs on bench and 390 kg/860 lbs on conventional (beltless!). I don't think we have ever seen a stronger bodybuilder.
Bodybuilders as a whole arent strong, sure you can find people like the guy you mentioned however if you take most normal bodybuilders compared to strength athletes powerlifter/strongman they get smoked.
@@larsenconditioning6742 True but how many of these bodybuilders have actually practiced the specific movements to try max out on them? I guarantee if you get a big bodybuilder and make him practice the specific strongman or powerlifting lifts, they will be able to adapt their system over a period of time and they will be strong.
My tendons suck, it's so hard to get strong that I've decided to focus more on a bodybuilding style of training. I'm not gonna let my weaknesses take the gym away from me, I can't imagine not working out every day.
I've been training my tendons for a year and IOi still feel like a beginner,bodybuilding is a walk in the park at the side of this because I used to do it.
The guy who owns my gym once said that bodybuilding is where retired strength athletes go. He was a powerlifter turned bodybuilder. I cant argue with anything you mentioned. Different training for different goals.
Bodybuilding is highly depended on genetics such as muscle insertions, so id argue alot of people that dont have apoealing aesthetics transfer to strength training more often
Ronnie was peaking for his bodybuilding show he wasn’t at his heaviest or strongest. If he just trained for powerlifting he would have been top 5 back then easy
Comparing them to an all-time chart is not that right, I think that the best way was to compare their lifts with a chart that happened in the same year that they did the lift
@@mitchellhooperstrongman its not because we don't see the numbers back when these guys were doing what they were doing. Ronnie's lifts could of been massive during his time but because of all the drugs we got today + change in genetics with humans becoming faster and stronger (kids being 250 6"7 at 14 yrs old etc) comparing Ronnie to today is just stupid because there was a time 800-900 in lifts was the best and now its going up 100s every few years
Strongman: "Bodybuilders are weak." Bodybuilder: 🤷♂ Average person parroting what they've seen on the internet: "Bodybuilders are weak." Bodybuilder: 👊👊👊
Calling someone weak who has top1000 in the world performance while being shredded on lifts that he doesn't train for 1rm specifically and also trains muscles that are not beneficial for those lifts is super questionable
I don't doubt Ronnie could have thrown up a 2200+ pound total if he trained for it. I think he had genetics to be the best powerlifter of all time if he chose to... But he didn't.
@3:30 Ronnie was doing that while prepping for a show. I'd like to see you find a powerlifter or strongman with the same weight and body fat percentage outlift Ronnie in a full meet
This is so correct. Bodybuilders suck at powerlifting lifts. But let's see how much powerlifters can curl or do lateral raises or bent over rows or power cleans or hacklifts or pull-ups or roman chair sit ups or calf raises. I'd say many of those lifts would be attempts rather than successful lifts.
YES, it's so incredibly biased to use 3 lifts that powerlifters, and most strongmen specialise in, to determine the strength of a bodybuilder who has no reason to train those 3 specific lifts
Not even to mention that a powerlifter or strongman couldnt handle the volume that a bodybuilder trains at. Look at Eddie trying to do it, het fatigues very fast. Completely different types of training
Visceral fat is a killer, and low-intensity cardio is actually terrible for getting rid of it. Marathon and the like BUILDS visceral fat, while high intensity work like lifting heavy and sprinting are excellent means to get rid of it. See Dr. Sean O'Mara's videos, he has MRI's that shows visceral fat and makes it all very palpable.
@@margodphd Why would you say that? Visceral fat is not belly fat. Viscera means organs, long distance runners got fat surrounding their organs, around their heart for instance. It's inflammatory and lethal. Look up the Sean O'Mara guy and see his MRI scans of marathon runners switching over to sprinting and see the difference. Not all fat is the same. Long distance running reduces good fatty tissue, but builds lethal fatty tissue.
before powerlifting and strongman was invented in Bronze era bodybuilders were in fact a combination of bodybuilder/ powerlifting/ strongman George Hackenschmidt from 1877 to 1968, He was one of the strongest men of his era and he was natural steroid free it would been interesting to see these type of trainers from the past with steroids of today with their training
@@rdizzy1well old time powerlifters are much weaker than present day powerlifters. So comparing old time bodybuilders to present day powerlifters is just stupid
I have a theory, didn’t test it out or anything just an opinion. Bodybuilders have strength endurance muscles and powerlifters/strongmen have more explosive and quick firing type muscles. This makes sense when you see exactly what they do in their training, bodybuilders lift to lift things for a long time, strength athletes lift to get the most weight up as fast as possible for short bursts.
They are "weak" (the best bodybuilders) compared to some of the best powerlifters and strongmen of all time, but they are still insanely strong and would obliterate the average powerlifter or strongman not at the absolute elite level in most gym lifts.
I would argue that bodybuilders are more well-rounded. They would beat calisthenics athletes at barbell lifts, and they would beat powerlifters/strongmen at bodyweight exercises (weighted or not). To say that a bodybuilder is weak based on the SBD is a reductionist's view of what strength entails.
Okay Mitch, I've got to (already) call BS on the Franco Columbu deadlift assessment. He did a _triple_ with 700lbs at 185 lbs. In the mid-1970s. Meanwhile, you appear to have assessed that lift as a _single_ against all powerlifters in the weightclass in the almost 50 years since. That is legitimately awful, and you should know better. Franco Columbu was absolutely an elite powerlifter in period.
I did the calculation that 700 equates to a 753lbs max and that’s how I’ve ranked him. He might have been strong 50 years ago, but that isn’t strong now
A guy who owns my gym is in his 60s. He told me Columbu was one of the strongest people in the world in 70s and early 80s. I asked but what about Arnold? He said, a better bodybuilder but much weaker.
Ronnie Coleman was by no means the strongest body builder. Where is Marus Rhuls 220kg x 8 rep seated shoulder press. It is legitimate and on his training video. I doubt you could do that one Mitch. Top Body Builders are now all short under 5"11 and so there will be no real strong guys. It is the taller body builders that do the big lifts. A 6"8 strong man (Brain Shaw) will always outlift a 5"7 (Derek Lunsford) body builder.
@@fishnutz5196 Marcus was still quite short at 5"10 But at one stage had shoulders as big as boulders. So he was shorter than Ronnie. They both were in the 280lb mark onstage in thier primes. Both obviously weighed plus 320lb in the off season when they would be at their strongest. I think only Big Ramy and Gunter have been over 300lb on stage and finished top 10 in the Olympia.
Francos lift should be put in context of what other people were doing at the time. Saying he's the 88th of all time, 40 years later is not fair at all. Same with Ronnie. Why on earth should their lifts be judged by modern standards when they didn't have the knowledge, equipment, or PEDs that we have currently? This is a super lazy video.
The title of this video has truth but is largely untrue, bodybuilders, the die hard types aren’t weak at all, they incorporate powerlifting movements with numbers in mind to improve their strength with the belief that the stronger they are they bigger they become. Modern day “bodybuilder” who pump roids after only 12 months of training, have little to no lifting foundation behind them, watch RU-vid for all their training knowledge, and focus more on mirrors than training are definitely weak, but what is weak?? What standards do we define strong or weak??used to be calculated by benching your body weight and squatting double your body weight , if you could do that with good form than you were considered strong. I believe that calisthenics athletes are absolutely freakishly strong but could they compete in the WSM? Of course not. And lastly, placing Ronnie in world ranking numbers, no other BB has ever lifted those numbers 2 weeks out from Olympia @ 5-6% body fat. It’s an unfair comparison
One other component of the genetics: waist to shoulder ratio. The best bodybuilders have narrow hips and wide set shoulders and for strength you really want your shoulders stacked as close to on top of your hips as possible
You're good at certain types of lifting. They're good at any type of lifting, being particular about every muscle and every exercise they do. They do a work-out 6x a week, sometimes even more, for lots of reps. It was never about strength, yet they're strong.
Sounds very insecure to me to call them weak . Those are crazy numbers , especially pound for pound while getting "numbers" is really not their focus . Also , how about all the other lifts they do ? How big is your lateral raise since you calling them weak ? 🤣🤣 Or is it just the lifts YOU do that matter ? Very passionate about all strength sports , but this is just capping
Yeah this is very weird. The lateral raise is a good one indeed. Most strength athletes have a few movements they focus on. Bodybuilders train literally every muscle individually. Which is just very different. Which is a good thing to highlight, but he really misses some of the big differences like this.
Bodybuilder is very UNDERRATED in strength universe. They train almost all muscle in body. Most powerlifter will be dead doing Bodybuilders training. For example, shoulders training
This is all true for the average bodybuilder vs the average strongman, not counting the top athletes in each sport. Really good & useful info from 5:40 onwards 🙏🏻
Lou Ferrigno, bent the bar the farthest in WSM. Mike Dayton won the wrist roller. Franco was leading the wole field. Franco Benched 525 at 181lbs. Franco, was World Powerlifting Champ at 181lbs. Franco, could blow up a hot water bottle, and burst it. Could hang from a chinning bar, by the tops of his feet. Could do 15 1 arm pullups. Mike Dayton, could do a 1 little finger, one arm, pullup. Could survive a Regulation Hanging, and then get out of a strait jacket. He started out with handcuffs, but said that was to easy. Could tear a deck of cards, in 8ths. Would let a fellow martial artist-Inoki, break a Bow Staff, on his Throat. He did this LIVE, on Wide World of Sports, around 1982, on TV. Is Still, as far as I know #2, in the Back-lift, behind the legendary Paul Anderson. I think Mike did around 5900lbs at a bodyweight of 215lbs. Anderson was 350lbs, and did around 6200lbs-6300lbs. Dayton lifted the back of a Bekins Storage Van, and stood up with it, on his back. At a bodyweight of 215lbs. Was also #3 in the world at one time, for pullups. 212 pullups at a bodyweight of 215lbs. Kurd Emmonds, held the record at 271, and his son, broke his record. I think 278lbs. Kurd was 171, and 71 years of age!! Sucker could do 271 pullups, at 71 years old. They were from Glascow Ky. They were in an old Iron Man magazine, around 1981. Ive seen Eddie Hall, and the Mountain try some of the bar bending, and grip strength feats, and they couldnt come anywhere close to being able to do most of them, or even try them. Like bending a metal file. Screwdriver. Tearing an LA phone book, long ways. Breaking handcuffs.
Just poking the bear here eh? lol This is next level bait of some kind . Decorative muscle won’t be as strong as sport muscle in a particular sport. There are some crossover but the prep is so different and so is the end goal. Weak though? 99.9999% of the world is weak by those standards.
(Most) bodybuilders are ‚weak‘ for their muscle mass, at least in terms of max weght. But they do have a high work capacity. And there are bodybuilders, probably not so few, that actually suck at compound lifts because they do so much isolation stuff. It really depends on a lot of things though. And of course training goals are totally different
because prioritising a well rounded physique capable in many movement and rom, while keeping a low bodyfat increasing strength to weight ratio will make you weak? alright then, stick to your sumo deadlift, 3 inch rom bench, half squats, beer belly and poor cardiovascular endurance
@tristanperkins9828 you obviously know that I was joking, right? In the gym, I do exclusively bodybuilding type of training and can see a definite increase in strength
@@piotrgoacki9070 I did not, no, that's good tho, I do bodybuilding too, with strength being my goal and it's been paying off quite a bit, even in places people might not expect
1. Is he comparing these lifters to other lifters in their weight class? 2. Did he compare them to strength athletes of their time 3. Since thor only bench presses 550 lb while weighing like 400 lb does that automatically mean all strong men are weak? This is an awful video and I'm somebody who agrees with the points that he's making about bodybuilders as a whole but choosing Ronnie Coleman and tom platz to make that point is beyond laughable.
Not to mention bodybuilders don't specialise in bench deadlift or squat, compare their bodyweight strength in the strict curl, row, pullup/lat pulldown, close grip incline press, dumbell shoulder press, leg extension/curl, calf raises, and then see where they place
I have bean training injury free for years without ever worrying about getting injured. Ever since I started watching youtube videos several years ago and seeing muscle tears, tendon tears, broken bones and snapped joints etc. I am getting increasingly paranoid.
I remember repping the 405 on squats and I let a big body builder work in . He was doing the 225 and I saved his life when he missed the race. I was 195 and he was 220 ripped.
The best way to compare the two… in bodybuilding, you try to move the weight as “inefficiently as possible” putting the most strain on the target muscle. Wherein powerlifting, you try to move the weight as “efficiently as possible” using a chain of muscle groups to achieve the most optimal outcome.
Bodybuilders (having just watched the intro) train for hypertrophy, not strength. Powerlifters, strongmen, and Olympic lifters train for strength, not size. You train your neuromuscular system when you lift- neurologic and muscular. My bodybuilder friend once told me he intentionally doesn't want his neurologic system to adapt to fire more efficiently, as other strength athletes do. He wanted his neurologic system to intentionally be inefficient in recruitment to force the muscle to adapt and grow. Basically, other strength athletes have far more efficient neurologic recruitment for their lifts making them pound for pound much better than bodybuilders. On the other side of that, with size comes strength.
Yup. MH talks about that in this vid and previous vids. I bet the idea for this came about from his talks with Dr Mike and Doucette, et al. Hypertrophy vs strength: train for one or the other if you're trying to optimize either. Not exactly controversial even if the click-baity title of the vid is. lmao
@@jae9843 To be fair, in MH's case I think this is more for lay people who don't understand the difference or realize that bodybuilders aren't particularly strong for their size. Interestingly, there was a video here on YT some years ago where they had different athletes (Olympic, strongman, bodybuilder, and maybe a couple others) doing different lifts. Overall the bodybuilder, though pound for pound wasn't the best, pretty much out lifted them all. I know it depends on who is representing each sport, but I think the results kind of shocked them all.
Training for hypertrophy, like a bodybuilder, probably builds the potential to be strong across a broader range of movements than training very heavy for strength on just a few movements.
Actually the opposite. Training using primarily isolation exercises for hypertrophy will not make you stronger across a broad range of movements, just stronger for that isolated muscle. To get stronger over a wide range, you need to primarily do multi-joint exercises.
@@donm1979 errr bodybuilders? they literally split their days up to isolate body parts (Monday and Thursday is chest and back day, etc.) Are we pretending that's not the case?
The numbers of the bodybuilders are whilst they were in severe calorie deficits and shredded. Their lifts are way more impressive.. if you want a fair comparison get yourself to low single digit body fat and just try any of those numbers
@@mitchellhooperstrongman Yeah but I think you're wrong at that as well. They're weak at those specific movements compared to strength athletes. They have so much muscle mass because they train every little muscle in the body individually. All the muscles you might not use as much when benching or deadlifting are trained as well and so are also quite strong. I wonder if you would take 150 entirely different exercises and compared a bodybuilder to a strongman on a similar level who would overall come out stronger. I highly doubt it would be the strongman. Of course there's also technique and nervous system adaptations that come into play here so there's definitely a lot of nuance here.
He's framing this wrong by using a bias metric, he's comparing bodybuilders to powerlifters, using powerlifting standards and calling that strength, why not compare their curls, pulls, presses, dumbbell bench pressing, bodyweight strength, bodyweight movements, higher rep ranges, compare rom and weight instead of just weight. There's so much to it, but he decided to be completely biased without even addressing it
@@0xszander0 Yes, good take, also i would love to see that, but with powerlifting also, and if bodyweight is also included or they're all a similar weight, I'd bet on the bodybuilder, also are you a dr. mike fan by chance
Nice CLICKBAIT title. Bodybuilders don't train for one rep max so it's like comparing apples & oranges. I'm not a fan of steroid infused bodybuilders but why insult them like that ? Just petty and childish - so much for BE KIND ...
I'm not a fan of the steroids and other drugs in bodybuilding but I am a fan of the training and conditioning. It is a safer way to train. Ronnie Coleman used extremely heavy weights and wrecked his body with his powerlifting type of training. I'm with Lee Haney's philosophy to "stimulate the muscles and not annihilate".
@@rodb66 I agree that it is a much safer way to train and actually trained that way myself for years. Using weights that I could control during both the positive and negative part of the rep. Never had any joint issues
Body builders aren't weak,some of them lift quite heavily. It's just their focus is on size, symmetry and shape and not focused on primarily lifting for strength. Men like Franco Columbu.
I took the approach of a balance between styles. It's important to build strength to help with hypertrophy gains especially after building work capacity. For anyone natural every style has to be pulled back to accommodate for recovery. Taking a week off or more every 3-4 months really has helped long term.
"Getting Hurt" umm yeah. When I tore my chest I held the CPU classic bench record and the CPF record raw bench. I was making crazy gains but pushed it too hard and my pec tore, had a quarter ton come crashing down. It sucked. I didn't bother getting the surgery to repair it, maybe I should have. Maxime Boudreault and I suffered the same injury at the same time. I went on to make fishing videos and he went on to place 3rd at WSM after getting the surgery. I was judging the meet where he first benched 500 pounds after the injury and he gave me his trophy from that meet. Still sitting on the shelf with my collection.
If you count the small ROM for the bench in powerlifting and ROM in bodybuilding bench its a different world, that is why i dont do powerlifting, the bench is a joke.
It’s comparisons! No hate at all, I absolutely sucked at bodybuilding! No bodybuilder wants to be stronger than strength athletes and no strength athlete wants to be shredded like a bodybuilder. It’s fun to compare, that’s all. Making a video about strongmen being fatter than bodybuilders really just doesn’t go anywhere though 😂
@@mitchellhooperstrongman You should definitely make a video about size not being bad. Lots of people nowadays are stuck up on "having to have" shredded bodies because "society" and especially social media in it´s whole has created that fucked up view so more and more both young men and young women are having self-confidence issues and are afraid to build because it would take them out of the norm. I am ofcourse talking about the "no-muscle, shredded abs" it is nothing but a huge muscle imbalance. Most people do not realise that strongman in general aren´t fat, yes ofcourse you have more bodyfat than a tiny boy with shredded abs but you also have stronger core which is vital for lower back pain preventation. Please educate these ignorant boys and girls...
Scott Mendelson was 6 feet and a lean 320 pounds- sounds like he mixed powerlifting and bodybuilding. Julius Maddox- powerbuilder with huge muscles. Eric Spoto had huge forearms and liked to get a pump. You are a good strength athlete but your ideas are just plain wrong. Could be the caffeine impairing your intellect.
