I had actually never heard of him but for some reason, the name came across my mind and I’m not kidding. That exact name came across my mind… God is so good. ❤
I am not yet a Latter day Saint but....... if reading extra books could prevent us from receiving the Holy Spirit then I would be in big trouble because I have read dozens if not hundreds of near death experience accounts. NDE books have transformed my understanding of the scriptures from back in the days when I believed in the Soul Sleep doctrine. I have also read The Book of Jasher, the Book of Enoch, The Book of Adam and Eve, the Book of Jubilees, the Roman Catholic Apocrypha and I don't know how many book I have read that were intended to assist us to understand the Jewish and Christian scriptures.
@@JaefarSABNW Luke 24: 32 And they said one to another, Did not our heart burn within us, while he talked with us by the way, and while he opened to us the scriptures?" ______________________________________________________ "Ex 3:2 And the angel of the LORD appeared unto him in a flame of fire out of the midst of a bush: and he looked, and, behold, the bush burned with fire, and the bush was not consumed." ________________________________________________________"Rev 15:2 And I saw as it were a sea of glass mingled with fire: and them that had gotten the victory over the beast, and over his image, and over his mark, and over the number of his name, stand on the sea of glass, having the harps of God. ________________________________________________________Isaiah 43:2 When thou passest through the waters, I will be with thee; and through the rivers, they shall not overflow thee: when thou walkest through the fire, thou shalt not be burned; neither shall the flame kindle upon thee. ________________________________________________________Isaiah __33:14__-15 The sinners in Zion are afraid; fearfulness hath surprised the hypocrites. Who among us shall dwell with the devouring fire? who among us shall dwell with everlasting burnings? He that walketh righteously, and speaketh uprightly; he that despiseth the gain of oppressions ________________________________________________________ John 3:5 Jesus answered, Verily, verily, I say unto thee, Except a man be born of water and of the Spirit, he cannot enter into the kingdom of God. Matthew 3:11 I indeed baptize you with water unto repentance: but he that cometh after me is mightier than I, whose shoes I am not worthy to bear: he shall baptize you with the Holy Ghost, and with fire _____________________________________________________________________Hebrews 12:29 For our God is a consuming fire Daniel 7:9 A fiery stream issued and came forth from before him
@@grampagraham3075 No I haven't read the Book of Abraham yet but the Book of Adam and Eve was exceptional. It is ancient and was preserved into our time period only in the Coptic Ethiopian language.
Joseph smith made and interpretation of the facsimiles and lined them up with his story on the book of Abraham; Joseph smith believed his theory #1. lol go look at the times and seasons original print in March 1 1842
John Gee is great! He’s one of the world’s experts on The Book of Abraham. The many scores of Latter-day Saints sending in their church resignation letters these days should pause a moment and study Mr. Gee, before rushing to the post office. 😊
Critical Argument Abraham has replaced osiris in legitimate egyptian material, and there is NO lion couch scene that has ever been shown to be with the book of breathings, and NO scene where the person is alive, dressed in normal clothing, and trying to get up. Clearly this was a very unique facsimile. Also, he correctly labeled sobek god of pharaoh, and the sons of horus representing the four divisions of the earth, and elkenah has been found to be a legit cannanite god. I dont blame you for not knowing these facts, so no need to apologize. Why dont you research these points and come and report to me within 1 week.
@@criticalargument8667 Again, I invite you to read my comment above and share any information you might have that really supports your claims that the BofA is an "obvious scam" or that show that I'm wrong in my claims...completely willing to change my mind based on evidence. However, please don't waste our time by argument based on the opinions of others, I'm interested in actual facts and evidence, not opinions. Thanks.
@@criticalargument8667 You are making an assumption that revelation is easy and straight forward. It isn't meant to be. It is a process of learning. I have been a member almost all my life, including as a Bishop. I still find it a struggle, but I can look back and see where I was inspired to do certain things and the outcomes that I didn't expect. I am in education: currently additional support needs. Many things that happen in the classroom, trigger different ideas and learning responses. Just like the various scriptures, including parables. Their are levels of understanding. So Joseph was inspired by facsimile one and may have receive revelation to recreate one to represent what happened to Abraham. He then used it with the inspired work on the Book of Abraham, which has nothing to do with the writings of the Horus facsimile and book of the dead. You cannot say that Joseph was translating that book of the dead or similar scrolls into the Book of Abraham. I don't know either. Also your assumptions on revelation and inspiration processes are the same for all situations is are just assumptions. There are lots of evidence of Joseph using different means of translating ( he calls everything translations ): he created a dictionary of symbols with the english representation, that he used to view the kinderplates with. With the dictionary, anyone could have done. He didn't say it was from God, yet many people look a false prophet. Joseph was interested in trying to understand the translation process as an interest. It is also the same as the JS bible translation: it was a work in progress and he was seeking inspiration. It wasn't his main priority as he would have made it one. Did he make mistake, yeah. Peter was called Satan by Jesus, but he became the leader of the church. Peter and Paul seemed to clash, but they were all good people doing the best they could and they were transformed into incredible servants of God. Joseph turned out to be not so bad after all. Tell me what Non LDS egyptologists would be interested in looking at possible LDS connections.
@@criticalargument8667 I am sorry to hear that a family would do that to their child. It certainly is not what the gospel teaches. My x wife and kids have nothing to do with the church anymore, but I still visit them, spend time with them, taxi them and talk to them, It hasn't changed the fact that they are my kids. My brothers and sisters are inactive to, but we are on our mums whatsApp everyday interacting. When I go to visit my mum, we always get together. So I am nothing like the guy you are talking about, and I would be ashamed to be like that guy and we don''t need people like that in the church. I hope that you are as critical of any parents who would be that cruel to their kids, even if they are not so called mormons and that you are not just bigoted to LDS. The Bible as it stands is interpreted more than any other book that I know of, so it actually causes more confusion. How many bible translations are there? How many interpretations are there of also?
John Gee may not know what was just discovered about the book of Abraham. Proves Joseph Smith translated the facsimiles! Light years ahead of Gee! See new upload titled Book of Abraham part 9. By me.
I understand that at one time the Book of Abraham was quite a bit longer than it is today. Is there anything to that and, if so, why was part of it removed? Was it because of the temple content?
John Roberts I believe the issue is that you may be assuming the entire document was translated. I could be wrong in this assumption. Joseph simply didn't have time and availability with everything that was happening at the time.
It was longer, but there is no reason to believe that any of the missing pieces contained anything about Abraham. It would be like interjecting the mission impossible movie into the middle of Casablanca. Abraham just wasn’t on the radar of the writers of an Egyptian funeral ceremony.
I'm no scholar, but there are reports that lead scholars to believe that Joseph translated more of the BofA than what we currently have. I've never thought about some of it relating to the Temple, but since the Facs. do, and the text does, the missing text may have given details that were kept from publication. However, the Saints were told more of the translation was going to be published in the Times and Seasons. Eyewitnesses describe hearing details read from the manuscript that never made it to press. Generally, it is assumed that some of it was lost during turmoil (either before or after Joseph was murdered by critics) and before it could be published. There is evidence that some were trying to steal or claiming rights to the manuscripts and mummies, etc. during Joseph's lifetime and after. Right now, I don't think anyone really knows, but that is an interesting theory. Thanks for sharing.
So why does Ritner heavily disagree with you if he has no interest in religion, but just historical accuracy? I just watched the first mormon story with Ritner and he says that you know better and technically saying you are misrepresenting the truth.
It seems Ritner is still angry with John for daring to disagree with him at Yale? I also believe he has probably been recruited and paid by anti-Mormon groups.
@@Joe-ty2jp I watched the mormon stories session one with Ritner. He says that he is independent and that most scholars disagree with Gee. I find it probably the most confusing area of the gospel.
@@grampagraham3075 It's not surprising that you feel confused. Darkness seeks to lead you from light by confusing you. Ritner bases most of his claims on a few false assumptions. He digs a gulf from there. John is a true scientist, he has been wrong many times, but true science is generally wrong, until it's not. As near as I can tell (from a brief peruse of the latest and former) Ritner seems to be repeating the same tired rhetoric. The way to truth is to keep your mind open to actual facts and truthful, logical feelings. The evidence indicates that Gee is right about the most important claims he makes on the BofA, and that Ritner is wrong. : ) There's a chance that even Ritner doesn't understand what his driving him to attack faith in Christ with misleading information. He has clearly been financially rewarded, but I can't say that this is his only motivation. Bottom line for me, what's the truth? There's overwhelming evidence that the BofM is true, and that the BofA is ancient and correctly translated. Doesn't matter why Ritner attacks that or us, really...everyone has his reasons and justifications.
@@Joe-ty2jp That's pathetic. Ritner and any egyptologist not getting a big, fat paycheck from the LDS church say that John Gee is wrong. Who is really the true scientist? Not Gee, the paid apologist who refuses peer review from disinterested professionals. You're the one being lead by the darkness.
Hike Ski Robert is misleading on many things, including his claims about John Gee. e.g John does have peer review, and I would bet that the checks Ritner gets from UC, and anti-mormonism are much fatter than the checks John gets from BYU. also, more importantly, Ritner is pontificating on Church history, and creating hatred, mocking, etc toward religious minorities by using false information and presumption, etc. You’re free to believe him, hate, or whatever, but remember, you’re also free to question him. That may take some courage but not much more than hiking and skiing 😊
I was referred here. Like many people, I am sick and tired of the whole Book of Abraham subject. I've heard the arguments back and forth, over and over again. Therefore, I am going to go away and focus on other issues.
My question that caused me to begin to doubt is this, why would our Heavenly Father allow to be printed and canonized scripture incorrect translation or interpretations. Surely He knew that the descriptions on the facsimiles were not correct and yet we have them in our scriptures. I do not begin to understand how or where Joseph got the info. for the book of Abraham, but I do know that the explanations of what is on the facsimiles is wrong, at least according to all sources that I can find. I am struggling to retain my faith and belief in a church that I have belonged to for going on 60 years now. Any help or insight into this would be greatly appreciated. It is tough to be going through this and even worse to beg and plead with local leaders to find any believing member to discuss these issues with. I do not know why the church cannot come up with some sort of class or lessons for those of us struggling with historicity issues. We are told to not go outside of the church materials for answers but when I bring these issues up with local leaders I am told that I just need to keep studying and praying. I appreciate these videos but am frustrated by the lack of in depth information. You seem to be telling us to just accept on blind faith that you are right and the others are wrong but yet the evidence that I can find points in the exact opposite direction.
Hello, Ty. There is much more information available than what is in this video from 7 years ago. Please submit your questions at www.fairlatterdaysaints.org/contact so we can discuss them with you.
Hi John, love your work! The evidence indicates that the BofA is ancient, and that the source has not been translated, and therefore Ritner etc. are wasting their time re-translating the JSP. The 3 facsimiles are also correctly translated. I'm willing to change my mind about any of this, and invite anyone to present evidence that would prove that any of these statements are not true : )....
