The word “Justice” doesn’t mean anything. It’s a word only used in a victim narrative to say “please love (care about) me”. That’s the deep truth. People should indeed love each other and care for each other. The so called justice system does not do that. And people don’t do that.
@@patinho5589 There will never be perfect justice because the subpostmasters will never get their lives back or most of what they lost. And yes, there's a lot wrong with the justice system. But I believe those responsible for ruining these people's lives, mental health, physical health, relationships, financial wellbeing and/or community respect should be held to account. More to the point, the subpostmasters believe the same.
@patinho5589 I disagree. Justice isn't just about being 'loved and cared for'. And it's not necessarily about being a 'victim'. You're taking a fundamental concept, millenia old, and reducing it to what some current 'snowflakes' interpret it as. But I don't believe that is even the majority perspective. Justice is fundamentally about fairness. I'm extremely annoyed at the injustice here - and it's certainly not that they weren't 'loved and cared for', for me. Rather, it is the gross unfairness they were subjected to, whilst just living their lives. And I've not seen ANY of them saying anything, fundamentally about wanting to feel 'loved and cared for'. They seem to fundamentally want acknowledgement of how their lives were destroyed; explanation for how it happened, and fair compensation to help them rebuild their lives. Not principally 'love and care'.
@@patinho5589I don’t agree either, they are without a shadow of a doubt going to vindicated in this inquiry and with any luck those who were complicit at the POL will face charges. If there is any justice in the world. I hope this creates a snowball effect to the many corporations that are having us all over.
She has put up a much more intelligent performance throughout this enquiry than people realise. She might have appeared to be ignorant and dumb on many occasions but I sense that it is part of her deliberate strategy to distance herself from any potential criminal charges. Hence her evidence given often seems to be quite random and full of gaps concerning IT disclosure and sub postmasters. There is a pattern in her responses to the questions. Where they are related to IT bugs, her knowledge and awareness on convicted cases and legal advice surrounding sub postmasters, she deliberately made herself looking ignorant and blaming all the faults on other people. She knows that being incompetent is not a criminal act but by deliberately withholding evidence to interfere in the administration of justice (perverting the course of justice) and causing death (corporate manslaughter) are. So she did not admit once in the past 3 days that she might just know about the bug and the disclosure issue before 2013 - she is much cleverer and smarter than people think otherwise she could not be the CEO in the first place. Throughout the enquiry, she stubbornly stuck to her single line of defense which was 'she should have known but she did not know' (a famous phrase used by Albert Speer at Nuremberg trials in 1946 which got him off from the death penalty - he was known to be the one who got away! ) because her colleagues failed to keep her fully informed. You would also notice where questions are related to non Horizon and sub postmasters issues, she happily remembered everything and was able to give details down to individual names. I don't think given the amount of documentary and audio evidence, there is any doubt that she knew all along as MD and later CEO and she was doing everything and deploying every available resources to silence the noises from the sub postmasters. Regardless what she said, I think there is now sufficient evidence to charge her on perjury, perverting the course of justice, corporate manslaughter and obtaining money by deception as soon as the inquiry is over!
Yes. I too noticed that her memory seemed much sharper on non Horizon (less dangerous) issues. The truth is obvious, and has been for years. Horizon was faulty, the PO knew it, but they thought smashing the Subpostmasters would be better and easier than admitting they had caused it all in the first place. I really hope she is held to account for this. POL could easily have 'put their hand up' and admitted it was Horizon, but they didn't. This sort of decision is only taken at the highest level- hers.
@@mrlawilliamsukwarmachine4904 are you JOKING??? no, this cost people their lives and in some cases pushed people to suicide. She needs to be PROSECUTED for this. She knew EXACTLY what was going on, and thats obvious despite her attempts at minimisation and playing dumb. The buck stops with her, at the top of the tree. She doesn't know the meaning of suffering.
@@mrlawilliamsukwarmachine4904 Suicides Bankruptcies Marriage breakdown Mental and physical health Loss of homes Stigma But poor Paula had to endure a few days of hard questions. She can now jet away with her millions.
She wanted the company’s share price to be unaffected by the problems of being tied into an agreement with Fujitsu and their accounts software, so she and her little gang punished the innocent plebs and make them answer and pay up for misposted and lost payments. It’s the sort of thing Jesus and the late Lord Denning would do.
NO SYMPATHY FROM ME. SHE NEEDS TO LOSE HER HOME/THE 5 MILLION POUNDS PAID TO HER AND SERVE JAIL TIME. IT IS ONLY RIGHT BASED ON THE WAY SHE TREATED THE SUB POSTMASTERS.THEY DID NOT DESERVE IT.
Snivelling for herself because she got caught ,not for the people who were ruined or took their own lives. Anyone who's ok with that is on the same moral spectrum as her. Have a nice day.
Vennells did more than let the victims down; she was complicit in 400 people being wrongly convicted of serious crime. Can we demand her arrest for serious criminal activity.... perverting the course of justice for one....
Perverting the course of justice is exactly the right charge to bring, with full knowledge she deliberately ignored the problems with horizon and took court action against people to cover up the shortcomings of horizon. I can only hope she and the other prime movers in the POL management get prison sentences that reflect the years of hurt and anguish they inflicted to the sub postmasters and their families.
I think that all those involved should at least pay back all extra pay they received since the start and only be paid a base salary till they do ( including mp's) and if anyone knowingly committed a offence should be charged
They didn’t have the good evidence against her in the tv bit. She is only sorry she has been caught with her hand in the till. Where where the Nolan code, o yes she cried all,over itand could not read it.
Basically she falsely accused innocent people, stole from those same people and cheerfully banked that money as a personal bonus… and she has the gall to cry for herself. Yes cry for herself and again blame others, while conveniently forgetting the pain, falsely imprisoned, the broken reputations, suicides and early deaths, of those who filled her personal bank account. And she’s only sorry for herself. It is she who ought to empty her bank accounts, give it back to the people she and the PO stole from; and she ought to spend a long time in jail. Serving the time she took from others. All this she knows… and yet she cried only for herself.
Laws in the UK need to be brought in to protect the public against these criminals and fraudsters acting in the UK corporate world! Accountability laws are what is needed to make the wrongdoers do the right thing in the future!
even sunak should face prison for handing his tax dodging wife millions of our cash why should we be standing by letting him get away with it...there all crooks but we are made to pay for there crimes..
@@steveni1459 thats what really pisses me off about the MP's they have the utter nerve to look their noses down at the working class for how we live and go after those comit benefit fraud when they thieve millions in public money and they should know better with the wealth and privileges they were born into
Yes Paul vendables loved the post office to withhold information and non disclosure of information to not protect the innocent people but more incriminating them fully so they go to jail , her actions & many others were try to derail the investigation process to suit her and the post office directors on boards agenda !! Laws on disclosure should be brought into action to protect the public against these types of directors , managers , fraud investigators burying their faces under sand now ! Prue evil and unlawfully , more like criminality against communuties .
@@barryj388 totally agree. She had many, many opportunities to demonstrate this and just say ‘stop’ but she chose, again and again, not to. To allow lives to be destroyed like that shows us who she is. She’s ’deeply sorry’ she got caught, that’s all. She needs to go to prison for the length of time each person whose investigation happened under her watch, added up and times by 10.
I hope the image of Vennells being escorted away by Police is a portent of things to come. Imagine a person if the cloth - allegedly one of compassion - being so enabling of the most vindictive people. There's a nice warm place waiting for her - and here's a test for British justice. Will it be done? Will the privileged and elite face the level of just the nation is calling for?
Why is she entitled to have been escorted into and out of the inquiry by five Police Officers for three days? She has certainly Swingled enough bonuses from the Subpostmasters to pay for her own security. Again, tax payers picking up the bill for the so-called entitled in our society, it makes me so annoyed that she gets this privilege. I really hope she ends up in a court of law and is sent down to spend a good few years to reflect on the harm she has done to these innocent people at the Kings Pleasure. That would be a very fitting end to this Wretched Woman.
Because if the police weren't there either she would be attacked and sue the government meaning our taxes would be paying her compensation, or she could just refuse to attend on the grounds that it isn't safe.
@happyjonn9242 I did say in my comment that she is wealthy enough from her bonuses alone to pay for her own security, it shouldn't be the Tax Payer picking up the bill for her security. The inquiry she attended lasted 3 days, and the 5 Police officers escorted her in and out of the inquiry for 3 days. Now, don't you think those 5 Police officers would have been better employed doing Police work for the community and not escorting this Wretched Women!
@@theloneranger2101 even if she paid for her own security police would still be required in case one of her bodyguards decided to stamp on someone's head. And look at Mark Duggan inquest for an example of how intimidating these things can get when emotions run high. police are required, just deal with it.
Jo Hamilton and Alan Bates have been at the forefront of the campaign for justice. None of this would have happened without them. Successive ministers were not particularly interested. E.g Ed Davey
Ah c'mon, there weren't that many tears. It was a performance. She will be protected by the CPS, her church and the ruling political class. She will never be held accountable for her actions regardless of the outcome of the enquiry. She had to 'endure' three days of forensic questioning; this is water off a ducks back to people like Vennells. She can relax now and go back to her church and wallow in all the money she 'earned' during her less than illustrious career. What has she lost? Just the ridiculous little trinket that she had to return? Not much in fact. That is a very small price to pay for her disgusting behaivour.
We've been watching this inquiry and after 3 days of watching PV's lies and putting blame on others, it becomes evident she is devoid of human feelings and compassion. Despicable creature this.
As Cliff on 'Faking It' tells us, if you cry genuinely it takes the voice a long time to recover. It took her 1 second, then she realised her mistake and went back to the whiny voice. SHE'S FAKING IT .......
I think her love for the Post Office brand comes a very distant second place compared to her love of wealth and personal gains. She is just like so many other hypocritical characters in the many religious cults.
As the boss of this 'legal mafia' she should be locked up straight away along with her fellow cohorts. If there is any justice then arrest warrants must follow very soon. If not, then this is further proof of a cover-up reaching the highest levels. I find it coincidental that a General Election has been called at this time just as the Public Enquiry has reached its concluding stages.
This inquiry, for her is the prequel. She has her eye firmly fixed on the criminal trials to follow. She has decided that ignorance and incompetence is her best defence, and has had several years to prepare and practice it. Her response to the enquiry was 750 pages., which says alot. Her Legal council for key years has decided to stay in Australia 😁😁
I find it so hard to believe that someone such as Paula Vennels as CEO of the Post Office Ltd has the audacity to say that she knew so little of what was going on about the Horizon scandal. I lived in Bethesda, North Wales up to 2014 before my wife and I moved to the East Midlands. Even I knew about the scandal long before I left North Wales as I lived not far from Gaerwen where the sub postmaster there was sent to jail. How can she be so shameful and lie on oath to deny knowledge of such things? I cannot recall, I was not told, I can’t recollect cos it was so long ago and on and on. Yet she could remember quite clearly as far back as 2010 when she was managing director of discrepancies in other staff members work. What a joke. She could remember absolutely everything which might incriminate others but “could not recall” anything where there was any chance of her incriminating herself. She lied on oath and should be sent to the Crown Court for this even. Another charge would be to have removed valuable information from the papers when Royal Mail was sold which any intended shareholder should have by law have known before buying. She lied and I can’t wait until the enquiry comes to an end to read their conclusions. It was outright disgusting the obstacles placed in the way of Alan Bates in his quest to find the truth. It took him years to get the information and Paula Vennels was determined to spend whatever it needed of public money to grind Mr Bates down no matter what the cost. She was effectively trying to bankrupt him out of the way. Jesus died on the cross. She should go the same way. To think she is on a shortlist as the next Bishop just shows the corruption within the church in which she is an ordained minister. HOW SHAMEFUL AND CORRUPT IS THAT ALONE? She should go to Jail for the collective amount of time she sent the innocent sub post masters to jail to serve. She should also be bankrupted as that she forced the sub postmasters to do. She even had the cheek and be so cruel against the innocent sub post masters whom she knew were wrongly convicted to make them pay the PO costs in each case. THIS PROVES BEYOND ALL DOUBT THAT SHE WAS HELL BENT ON PROVIDING THE MAXIMUM PROFIT POSSIBLE FOR THE SALE OF THE ROYAL MAIL AND MAKE HER LOOK GOOD WHICH IN TURN WOULD MEAN A GREATER BONUS.
Why didn’t successive Governments see that something was very wrong? Any firm of Accountants could have soon determined that the Horizon system reconciliation was flawed.
@@ftumschkas an IT professional of over 30 years the system would be the first place I would look. Many systems are not fit for purpose, especially large scale monoliths like Horizon, which was done on the cheap. I would demand test plans, logs, results, load test results, the whole lot, and speak to every person who worked on the development, on their own, outside the office. Sorted.
@@chrisoneill3999 The simple fact is, this scandal wouldn't have seen the light of day if it wasn't for then conservative MP James Arbuthnot. It was him who forced Post Office management to bring in independent forensic accountants then dragged them before a parliamentary select committee where it was proven beyond any doubt that Vennels & co had fitted the postmasters up.
At 2.11 she’s interrupted, turns her head quickly in anger and THEN remembers to get back into ‘damaged apology mode’. True colours showing for a second. Getting so much money as a bonus for destroying ordinary lives is a shame, but it’s just another day in Tory Britain where those lucky enough to get onto the gravy train just p{%s on the rest of us every day we can’t pay the rent or food bills.
All the sub postmasters were also sorry! But most of them were sent to prison regardless of pleas! Whiile Paulla and Co enjoyed sunny holidays off the proceed payments called Bonuses! Do not let out Justice system fail the victims they should be sent to prison for a minimum of 5 years!
Broadly true, but by no means most of them. 230 sub postmasters were imprisoned out of more than 900 convictions. That said, it's 230 imprisonments, and 900 convictions, too many.
In preparation for this three day event, Vennell's would have undertaken dozens of practice training cross examinations with her lawyers to iron out how to present herself and deflect the accusations during the inquiry. She knows that it's not working as she is constantly breaking down in tears, whilst we can see that she was either asleep at the wheel or she is lying about her time in charge of the Post Office! Either one, its obvious to see that her priority was always to look after herself, her reputation, her performance bonuses & pension top ups as she happily sat back and watched people lose their livelihoods whilst some of them lost their lives. She now needs to be investigated by the Police on criminal charges and if/ when she is found guilty ... she needs to be thrown into prison. Every penny that she has taken in bonuses must be paid back in full and with interest as she has fraudulently stolen them from the Post Office/ British Tax Payers!
On a day when Lucy Letby’s appeal was dismissed Paula Vennels was the most hated woman in the UK. Neither showed contrition or remorse for their actions and both deserve long prison sentences
And, just to think, she's also a vicar in the CofE.. The lawyer saying that she "preached compassion, but didn’t practice it" hit the nail on the head, vile person!!!
Take her money from her - that is what matters the most to her. Take away her bonuses, her wages and any earnings during her time as an incompetent and harmful manager. Crocodile tears - her "lack of recognition of the power imbalance" as she puts it, amounted to suicides, jail time and lives ruined.
Take her money its the only thing these people Feel. Prison. Then Back to a millionaire lifestyle. She stole her money her money from hard working people.
She didnt "let anyone down" at all. She deliberately and knowingly participated in corruption of the most appalling kind. She and her equally corrupt colleagues MUST answer for their crimes in a court of law.
she does not remember sending woman out of the room but then said she felt bad about it how can you feel bad about doing it and say you dont remember doing it
In the case of martin Griffiths, a subpostmaster so hounded by the Post Office that he took his own life she has blood on her hands as surely as if she had thrown him in front of the bus herself. The whole incident, from start to finish is sickening and a complete affront to all norms of decency, honesty and respect.
Has the mighty fallen ? No , People like her have powerful connections and those will fight every inch to protect and save her from Jail because she is one of Them, not so for the Post Office plebs .
The information was brought *directly* to her by second sight but because it didn’t tell her what she wanted to hear, that horizon was working, but instead revealed that everything was true and horizon was at fault, she dismissed it. She *didn’t* ignore it, she dismissed it. This will be crucial at her criminal trial because to demonstrate mens rea (guilty mind, the knowledge of wrongdoing), being ignorant simply means that she didn’t know. Being dismissive means she did know and chose not to act.
@@amandamcauley That's actually what I meant. She's been found out in public and she feels shame. Absolutely those tears are for no-one else other than her
At any point did anyone look at, IF these people they were accusing of “stealing funds” where the alleged “stolen money” went? Did they ever once wonder “If they stole all that money” they had bough houses or cars or went on expensive holidays? Because if they had they would have discovered that no one was benefitting from the money they were accused of having stolen. And how would hundreds of Postmasters have decided to fleece the Post Office? The notion that all these innocent people either decided on their own or get together to steal money from post offices across the country? Fact… they wouldn’t and didn’t. But it was easier to believe that than actually properly investigate the facts that these people had no reason to steal the money, showed no signs of having large amounts of money come magically into their hands… It was easier to threaten and bully innocent Post Masters into pleading guilty and prosecuting them and those who refused to admit guilt to something they didn’t do and believe incompetent Post Office employees and contractors who didn’t do their jobs that “there was no glitch” and to pocket the proceeds of the actual victims’ own money.
Crocodile tears and insincere apologies aren’t enough, there needs to be an unprecedented and debilitating personal financial penalty and a substantial prison sentence that cannot be commuted and that is not subject to parole.
The sheer lack of competence in running a national business like POL has been exemplified in the recent evidences given by POL's senior executives. How ever did they get their jobs.
Paula vennels gave noting to the PO when you consider the damage the brand has suffered, she spent nearly a decade sitting on her hands "laying low" pocketing the bonuses, the pension, that final payday, while innocent people suffered under Horizon, and she couldn't be bothered to raise a finger "not intrested".. So now the organisation will have to pay millions in compensation "thru the Taxpayer" because of her greed and ignorance.. Let's hope the prison sentence for the pain, suffering and expense caused is considerable.
They STILL owe Jo £36,000 that they STOLE from her to "put right the shortfall"! No wonder it looked like she had lasers coming out of her eyes. So not THAT sorry - eh Paula?
She’s got to serve time for this surely? It would be a complete failure of our justice system if she escapes proper punishment, ‘sorry’ simply won’t suffice.
