Brilliant! Thank you so much. Have watched several of your videos and theyve really connected the dots for me that contractors xoming out to our house have not. Not bashing them, just that your content is very clear and organized. Really helped me destress making a decision on which direction to go
Glad it was helpful! That’s great to hear… sometimes I get told I give too much detail lol so I’ve just found I try to nerd out and do my thing and some people find it “too much” but others find it to be the right amount of info so I appreciate your comment. I enjoy explaining it more in depth so that’s also why I do it 😁Thanks for watching!
Excellent video, super impressed with the level of detail you've presented. Thank you for breaking down that COP information; true story I was just looking at those Bosch spec sheets prior to watching this with the intent to compare this (IDS Premium Connected) against the Mitsubishi PUZ-HA24NHA (PVA indoor) and striking out due to the conversion which you have demystified so brilliantly. The Mitsu COP is rated 3.84 @ 47F and 2.14 @ 17F which tips the scales towards Bosch.
I've come to the conclusion that although I really like the communicating units, I feel like their sweet spot is in ductless mini-splits IMO. The Mitsu control systems appear to be so proprietary and clunky that I might hate my decision down the road. I'm also really surprised that nobody seems to mind that the indoor ducted handler just has the same style air filter as the splits (glorified hairnet). For reference I'm installing this on Cape Cod MA, and state is offering a $10k rebate on whole house replacement of fossil fuel systems.
Right on, glad you found it helpful! For what it’s worth the Mitsubishi will probably be quieter in defrost mode than the Bosch systems though the Bosch is more efficient (based on the ones you’re comparing) so if that’s important it’s worth considering the Mitsubishi. I agree the controls can be clunky. I would ask a local contractor if they have issues with the Bosch making more noise in defrost mode because it’s a side note I’ve since been made aware of… none of our customers have mentioned it but our rep has said this can happen periodically depending on how often it defrosts. Cape Cod looks like a pretty good climate for a heat pump based on averages that I can see (25F-37F low to high temp swing averages) so you’ll probably be ok with either. If your condenser isn’t by a window or master bedroom then you probably won’t hear the defrost mode as much fyi but if it was by your bedroom or something I might consider the Mitsubishi.
I just came across your content and I think it's excellent! Very thorough and I love how you explain the math. I live in Suffolk county New York which is on Long Island and we just had a major flood (82" of water) and I lost all my mechanicals. We had a hot water baseboard system for heating so I was considering going to a heat pump because we have Central air, ducted, and solar panels. We have a 4 ton system compromised of a Rheem air handler and Ruud condenser that was installed in 2017 and running r410a refrigerant. My HVAC mechanic had recommended the new Bosch 15 seer or 20 seer heat pump and said communication with the Rheem air handler wasn't an issue I just needed new thermostats as well. We would you supplemental heat strips to assist when the temperature drop below 30. My question is, based off of the refrigerant plus the air handler, would it make sense to replace the air handler with a Bosch? Would this affect efficiency or would the Rheem air handler be sufficient and not worth the change to 100% Bosch system? Because I've been working non-stop trying to get my house back together and get my family to a place where we can resume normal operations, I haven't been able to research and figured it would be better to get your opinion seeing as how you are very knowledgeable and experienced with many different types of systems. Any advice is greatly appreciated and appreciate your time in addressing my question.
Short answer is yes it will be more efficient with a new Bosch paired air handler but mainly on the 18 or 20 seer options. Also this gives you a federal heat pump tax credit of $2000 in your region, plus any state or regional incentives. It’s also probably a little quieter. You can pair it with the Rheem air handler but it won’t get any rebates but if you’re trying to do it on the cheap it might not be a big deal. If home insurance is paying though for the damaged gear 100% do the air handler too and any contractor can backup this to an insurance company because it’s an AHRI paired / matched system. For what it’s worth on Long Island unless your temps get below 10-15F you might not need heat strips but idk your region as much as Colorado obviously just what I’ve read on average temps for the area. Seems relatively moderate in terms of cold weather, because you’re by the ocean this helps regulate
And in Colorado for example on the Bosch 18 and 20 SEER systems we set our changeover temp at 10-20F depending on customers preference and if they have solar set it closer to 10F provided it will keep up with the load of the home
@@TheHVACDopeShow thank you very much for the reply and the information. I have been doing my research and educating myself. My Rheem unit is 13 seer so if I just got the heat pump I would really only max out at that seer rating. After considering what I've found out, I will be swapping out the air handler as well which, like you said, would allow me to reap the tax incentives. And since I am doing that I might as well go with the 20 seer unit. Unfortunately insurance is not paying out anything so I will have to roll the dice and hope that FEMA covers some of the damage. I think the coldest that it has gotten over the last couple years was like 8° and a majority of the winter days, in February and March which is when it's at its coldest, have been between 28 and 35 degrees. With those temps, add the 20 seer unit, do you think the heat strips are necessary?
Ur timing of posting this video is perfect as I just ordered an install of the “connected” version of this heat pump yesterday with install this Thursday! I live in Northern California where the weather is usually pretty mild and I also have solar so was thinking this would be a great system to replace my 30 year old gas furnace HVAC system. Have been looking at units from GE and Trane but decide on this unit. I have an ecobee so the info regarding the setting on that working with the Bosch is good to know. I plan to submit for the IRA tax credits also but unfortunately my electricity provider PG&E is not providing any rebates. I just subscribed and liked this video after seeing this great info! Keep up the good work.
@@gg80108 It contains an antenna and works with an app so that ur dealer/installer and yourself can monitor the unit for errors and efficiency. Not sure if it's the default or not for the Premium series.
Are you now leaning towards Bosch from your favorite Daikin fit ?? I love my Daikin Fit 17.1 and look forward to many years of trouble free heating & cooling here in Florida. The fact I got 3,100 in rebates and tax credits was a plus.
Honestly I still personally prefer the Fit only because it’s a true modulating / communicating system, and the airflow / communicating integrations between the indoor and outdoor unit actually does make for a more comfortable and quieter system. I really like the Bosch as an option for customers that want to take advantage of certain rebates in Denver, and/or want to use an ecobee (you’d be surprised how many people don’t want / like communicating thermostats or just really don’t want to give up the ecobee/nest). So it’s a great system and technically more efficient, but I’m still leaning towards the fit just based on the comfort factor I’ve seen in action
It’s just the design of the system and the motherboard, I thought I talked about the non communicating feature and how it’s all self contained but as far as mechanically how that physically works it’s just the design of the relays internally. All the communication is done at the condenser based on condenser pressures… the benefit is that it won’t fail for lack of airflow or run itself in a condition that results in an error code like most other systems will. If it’s set to run at 5 tons but there’s only 3 tons of ductwork it will max out the airflow for the ductwork and stop ramping up because it’s based on the data and electronics at the condenser outside, and all operates independently.
Thanks for this video, I’m in Indiana and I am planning making a Bosch system purchase. This information was helpful and the link you included on the tax credits 👍👍
Thank you for a very informative video. I have this Bosch system installed this year. I'm not sure how it can work at -4F, in my case it really starts to struggle at ~30F when the furnace kicks in. At this point the condenser is already covered with ice. Otherwise a nice system. One thing to take in mind is that the bearings in the condenser are pretty loud and make grinding noise when at full capacity.
I think what you’re referencing for noise is defrost mode and yes I’ve heard these can be noisy in the defrost cycle. It shouldn’t be grinding anything that would be bad but that’s probably what it sounds like lol. Glad you found the video informative 😁 thanks for sharing your experience!
The Bosch class that was put on at my company they told us that Nest thermostats don't work together very well and advised us to not use them on bosch systems.
Same when I went to the class I heard they prefer “dumb” thermostats… but the big point they made was to make sure any sort of “learning” or smart function was turned off so it functioned more as an on/off signal instead of trying to incorporate its algorithm into temperature control
Will do, I’m going to keep up with this series and do more head to head reviews across brands. It seems to have been a helpful topic / format. And we’ll also be incorporating some of these with install videos as well so people can see the finished product
EER ratings are really important on non-communicating systems in hot weather because they generally run near 100% capacity much of the time - unless the indoor blower is staged. For utilities, low EERs produce high power draw in very hot weather and meeting peak demand is more important than average seasonal demand. Many inverters like daikin-fit are side discharge and those have poor EER ratings because the outdoor coils are small. The bosch is more of a north american design with more coil area.
Interesting I didn’t know that… I would love to do a “in action” video where I monitor amp draw/power consumption of a system throughout the day in peak season in Phoenix or another hot market for example just to see how things keep up and actually perform because I’d be curious to monitor actual realtime power consumption.
@@TheHVACDopeShow eer at different outdoor temperatures is published for gree flex but that machine is not intended to be staged. if you buy a bosch ids or carrier 38mura they're designed to be staged, for bosch it is all done based on indoor coil pressure just staging indoor airflow. I suspect that in phoenix many inverter tech units are not the best choice. Highest seer/eer single stage could be the best way to go especially with air ducts in attic, lower velocity on low causing increased duct loss along with lower eer in very hot weather for inverter side discharge units with smaller outdoor coils. Inverters really shine in zoned and cold climate heatpump applications due to enhanced capacity control and better heating in cold weather. though some inverter HPs lose capacity as it gets colder as quick as conventional.
Similar quality and reliability, we’ve installed them in Phoenix and Denver and they seem to do well in the extreme heat and cold just fine. Quality product as is Carrier
I have a couple rentals with the Bosch 2.0 and some others with the carrier hybrid. At my home I have carrier/bryant communicating system. I would say the Bosch is a good option for the reason you said but I’m more of a fan of the side discharge units. Also the Bosch is a lot louder in heat than in cooling and has issues with harmonic sound in heat.
I also like side discharge, that’s good feedback I have not heard that… is the harmonics coming from the condenser outside or the ductwork in the home?
@@seanwebb1589 This is somewhat concerning, how bad is that, and do you think it's an installation problem and can be fixed, or is it just how the units are designed? Are you pairing it with a Bosch (BVA) air handler?
@@dgolmsted paired with a trane 2 stage furnace and coil in one scenario and a single stage Bryant/carrier in the other. Not an install problem. We did put an additional muffler on one to try and reduce the vibration They perform well but having multiple homes with different kinds of setups I call this the poor man’s inverter.
@@seanwebb1589 gotcha..thanks for the response. What part of country are you in, i.e. is heat used more than cooling? Do you think this noise problem would go away if you paired it with a Bosch air handler?
2150 sq ft house with a current 3.5 AC that runs 6-10 mins max then shuts off (1 stage). Multiple local companies say replace with 4 ton variable but one say 3 ton variable. Looking at a Bosch 20 seer Heat Pump with 96 backup furance…the one 3 ton company ran a manual S but house section says 26,500 btus for cooling…would a 3 ton running closer 100% at peak or a 4 ton running closer to 70% be better based on your experience?
As long as you have backup heat then the 3 ton running for a cooling load of 2.5~ tons (2.2 tons is what you said the manual s is. The 4 ton is probably overkill if your system is already short cycling. 3 ton is probably fine I would just confirm with the contractor that they guarantee that’s the right size. Is it 2150 above grade or 2150 and half is a basement? Just curious and loads vary drastically by region so I can’t really gauge your sizing by anything other than the info you provided regarding a 3.5 ton system currently short cycling which is VERY helpful information btw 😁 and kind of a tell to probably go with the 3 ton system. Sorry for the delayed response busy in summer!
@@TheHVACDopeShow yeah it’s 2150 above grade sq ft with 1 vaulted ceiling (that was included in the manual s report). The house is on the east coast near the coast- lots of humidity - hence why I don’t want the new system to short cycle. all good. Keep up the great content!
One thing I would point out is that seems like Bosch stated that Nest is not supported for their heat pump, do you know what’s the reason? Or if Nest will work with Bosch heat pump with Bosch air handler?
It will work but you have to turn off all smart features, geofencing etc. you want a basic analog legacy signal going to the condenser/air handler… the eco settings have a mind of their own and throw off the way the inverter runs because you just want the thermostat to essentially say “cool” or “heat” to the unit, and then maintain that signal until temp is satisfied.
So since it uses a stamdard t-stat. does it run continuously at low seeds like the Daikinn Fit? This is the big advantage of an inverter system. How does this system regulate it's speeds?
When it first gets a call for cooling it ramps up in small increments until it reaches maximum capacity. And once the thermostat satisfies temperature it doesn’t actually shut off, instead it keeps running and ramps down slowly, and gently hits the target. So even tho the stat stopped calling maybe 10 minutes ago, it will keep running just to ramp down until its at zero and gets a call again
Incredibly informative. I am replacing a 17 yo Rheem heat pump with either a Mitsubishi hyper heat or a Bosch IDS Premium. I live in Bend, Oregon, hot summers and cold winters. Backup are heat strips. House has a Honeywell 2 zone system. Any recommendation based on efficiency, noise, ability to heat at low temperatures?
Honestly the Mitsubishi will be quieter in defrost cycle. Both systems can keep up in Bend just fine but the only complaint I’ve heard (not from our customers but just anecdotally) is the Bosch system is noisier when it goes into defrost cycle. In a high ambient climate I’d probably recommend the Bosch but the Hyperheat is a whisper quiet system and bend has relatively mild summers correct? (Under 100F most days is “mild”). Either will keep up but for heating I feel Mitsubishi is quieter from what the reps have told me.
Thank you for the quick reply. Bend does have a “mild” summer climate. One last question. I am told that the Bosch will work seamlessly with the Honeywell 2 zone system and Ecobee thermostats, but that the Mitsubishi, using an adapter, will have reduced functionality; that the variable speed is not as efficient. Is that of any concern?
Can someone explain why smart thermostats aren't recommend in this application? I thought learning/geofencing try to determine when you are home and away: turn it on when at (or approaching) home, turn it off when away. I'm not sure I see how that would affect these units.
The inverter kicks on at low, and ramps up slowly. Learning features and / or smart features basically kick it off and on more than necessary and the inverter won’t keep up because it doesn’t run like that. When it first kicks on it’s at low capacity and then ramps up over 10-15 minutes depending on demand and ambient conditions. You’re better off leaving it set close to your temp preference vs letting it go up to 85 when you’re not home and then cranking it down to 75. That process will take 4-5 hours to make your house comfortable especially on the hottest days. Whereas if you like it at 75 normally, leave it at 78, or 80 when you leave so it’s not struggling as much to ramp and cool down
This is 10 years vs. 12 on the Daikin, it’s not bad by any means, but the Bosch system is really good for people that need to hit certain tiers to qualify for rebates in their area
It really depends but the short answer is “most of the time yes” and that’s because of rebates. In certain parts of the Denver market the 20 seer qualifies for up to $8,700 in rebates / tax credits so the savings is such that the 20 SEER is cheaper because of all the subsidies. If it was a head to head comparison you could do a head to head between the COP and see the efficiency is essentially a (ballpark) 25-35% improvement depending on operating conditions, so if you take your heating and cooling costs and subtract 25-35% that will essentially tell you how much you’ll save per month and then calculate the breakeven based on months to breakeven. Normally 5-10 years but like I said in city of Denver right now the rebates make the systems basically the same price on day 1 so there’s no “breakeven” because it’s the same price basically
Being someone who installs them and gets 0 kickback, 0 commission 0 sales spiffs, my answer is purely honest. Short answer, no. You’ll never see the return. But I will say, they are some super badass systems.
I'm planning to get a 3 Ton Bosch IDP Premium series 20 SEER heat pump for my house but the contractor quote an adp air handler to pair with Bosch. I believe the reason is my current electric outlet on the attic is 120V instead of 240V. Do you think this is a good match or I should opt for change my outlet to 240V and use Bosch air handler?
And the Bosch air handler will maximize its efficiency. It’s definitely more expensive the 20 SEER air handler is not cheap but we only sell paired air handler options for the AHRI reasons and rebates I mentioned
@@TheHVACDopeShow Thank you for the response! I followed your comment and get the Bosch air handler. It’s super quiet and works great as a pair with IDS2.1.1. It adds some costs but worth every penny.
Just googled your historic weather and it depends because there’s a lot of variation between Berlin Manchester and Portsmouth for seasonal lows. Above 15/20F for average lows then sure, or I’d prefer the Daikin fit for comfort honestly only because it’s a true inverter and the defrost cycle is louder on the Bosch. Daikin fit is super quiet, even in heat pump defrost mode, Bosch isn’t bad at all and is technically more efficient but they both very efficient so personal preference I’d opt for the Fit for comfort. I like the Bosch because of the efficiency ratings needed for rebates in Denver metro (Xcel territory) it happens to qualify which makes it’s very attractive, and for customers who want to choose a thermostat (Daikin fit requires the Daikin One)
Ok, I’m about to make the plunge on the Bosch, I can’t seem to get a straight answer on the tax credits and rebates. The guy I’m working with said it depends on what county I live in, so I asked him who do I contact to get these answers he says he usually tells people to ask the person who does their taxes 😵💫. You think a company would be able to tell you this information, I mean you would think being able to tell a customer this information would help with the sell 😵💫. Do you have any advice for me to where I could get this information ?
Energystar.gov for FEDERAL tax credits… county is going to be local credits or additional things but no it’s by state and region. I believe the 20 seer qualifies in both north and south regions so all 50 states just check the matchup of the two units you’re buying on energy star website and it will tell you if the unit qualifies in your state. It is very confusing lol so I don’t blame the response but that’s why we did so much research because it was super confusing
The Bosch does not communicate. It senses pressure and shoots for target pressures and temps on the suction / liquid line and adjusts up and down incrementally. Normal communicating systems communicate via two comm wires that are connected to the board and thermostat and allow everything to integrate like on a Daikin Fit.
So I'm interested in replacing my Hydro air system with a Bosch but I can't find any information on my existing system to compare? I have a Ruud air conditioner UAMB-036JAZ and a first company air handler 36MBXB-HW Buderus boiler all 20 years old R22 and 10.2 solar array and was thinking to upgrade to a Bosch to help off set the carbon ft print and use my solar system for AC/ heat in CT cause my electric bill is $9 a moth grid tie in but I cannot find anything on the old to make comparisons with the new unit?? If the efficiency between the old in the summer will offset the heating in the winter?? Boiler would only run on really cold days and for domestic not water? Your thoughts would greatly be appreciated!!
Hey Kevin, yes that would offset it and basically there’s not a matchup with a first co unit so the way you would have a tech install that is just making sure you are able to run the needed wire to the condenser and it would pair with the indoor unit. Technically with a TXV that indoor unit should work provided the capacity is at least 2 tons, because that’s the lowest you can set the capacity on the 3 ton Bosch systems. Great question and would be curious to see if any Bosch representatives chime in or have something to say otherwise. The outdoor unit does all the calculations in terms of registering temperatures at pressures at the condenser so it should work fine. And as far as setting a switchover temp I think you’d be able to tie into the built in relay
I have not heard that, but it depends what you define as vibrate… if you hear a humming sound that’s normal for inverters, and if you touch it it might be vibrating… but it shouldn’t vibrate so hard it vibrates away! I’ve heard defrost cycle is noisier on them than other models but that’s the only comment I’ve heard on them
There’s a company in Woodstock called HVAC Bee (not related ironically lol) but great reputation, and good people I know the owners. If they don’t service your area lmk and I’ll ask around
Just came across your videos. They're awesome. I've learned a lot in a few hours! Buuuuut, the on-screen overlays look so unprofessional when you spell "Xcel" as "Excel" (in several of them).. it's like when technical people call it an "Iphone" instead of an "iPhone". We all know how it's supposed to be spelled. Just do it -- comply with their brand name. 😅
Yeah I know and notice sometimes, but honestly I just don’t have time to correct the editor and honestly there’s such a glut of content on the internet I’ve learned it really doesn’t matter in the beginning but we’re working on elevating it so they make less of those mistakes and continue to elevate the quality. Thanks for the feedback 😁 but yeah I agree lol it kind of bugs me I’ve just tried to not let it bother me and try to point it out and make the next set of videos better
I really wanted to learn about the Bosch systems but was so very distracted by your constant arm and hand movement (my issue, I guess) that it was impossible for me to follow your conversation.
Your videos are so unnecessarily long. The actual information you give is filled with dorky technical speak when then consumers only care about the bottom line. And you don't even do that well.
You’d be surprised the majority of the feedback is otherwise. Some customers don’t care (sounds like you’re in this category) others do, my fellow nerds. If you want a video that says “this is good, this is better, and this is the best and most efficient” you honestly don’t need a video because an HVAC sales guy will tell you that and not get into the technical info. But I can appreciate that you’d prefer simpler videos so I’ll take that into account
