Botanicals vs Oxygen; Decomposition in the Aquarium

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What none of the 'natural' fishkeepers or black water aquarists tell you? Or do they? Rather then increasing stability in the aquarium these botanicals could be making an aquarium less predictable. The encouragement of algaes and bacteria that strip the oxygen and lead to fish deaths? In some and particularly low stocked aquariums these could have benefits but these need to be thought through.
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References
Alam, M. S., Han, B., Gregg, A., & Pichtel, J. (2020). Nitrate and biochemical oxygen demand change in a typical Midwest stream in the past two decades. H2Open Journal, 3(1), 519-537.
Brenniman, G. R. (1999). Biochemical oxygen demand. Environmental Geology. Encyclopedia of Earth Science. Springer, Dordrecht. doi. org/10.1007/1-4020-4494-1_34.
El-Moghazy, M. M., & El-Morsy, A. M. (2017). Effect of water aquaria changes on growth performance of Nile tilapia Oreochromis niloticus and the relationship between bacterial load and biological oxygen demand. International Journal of Fisheries and Aquatic Studies, 5(3), 341-349.
Nolan, C. (1996). Ventilation rates for carassius auratus during changes in dissolved oxygen.

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19 сен 2024

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Комментарии : 25

@tropicalfishhub Год назад

That's so true. The demand on oxygen levels is excessive in blackwater tanks. I noticed that smaller species (characins and corydoras) can handle high bacterial content in blackwater setups much better than larger fish like Discus and Angels

@FreshwaterIchthyology Год назад

Discus tend not to look great in black water, it really darkens them. I assume in the wild those found in more black water there is the current but it could be deceptive as below the canopy of the flooded forest it'll be dark anyway. Quite a few of those rivers also seem to have a high sediment load decreasing visibility. Certainly there is a level of adaptability of different species. Corydoras can facultatively air breathe as well.

@Silver_Creek_Aquatics Год назад

Palm leaves... om gonna go check that out afterwards. Thanks Becca!!! I really appreciate the level of mind you put into a particular species. Keep it up Me Lady!! 18 minutes a day on one subject over a few years will put you above 90% of the world with experience!! That means you're the epitome of a professional, and that doesn't go unrecognized, not one bit!!!

@saidmilani Год назад

It would be great if you make a video about keeping and breeding "Caridina shrimp"s. Thank you

@FreshwaterIchthyology Год назад

Thank you for the idea, I've not worked with Cardinia for a while so not sure I can.

@saidmilani Год назад

@@FreshwaterIchthyology 🍀

@Silver_Creek_Aquatics Год назад

So to me, the next question that becomes is; Would an offset of an heavily planted tank supplying oxygenation and carbonisation solve the issue, or is this on a more controlled system to ensure the results are more measurable?

@FreshwaterIchthyology Год назад

The other aspect with a planted tank is the plants competing for that oxygen, anything emergent or floating will be competing and not supplying back to the water. The other aspects is plants trapping waste leading to areas where matter is decomposing using up more oxygen. It's quite unpredictable. Not a controlled setup at all, it's just the more variables though the more unpredictable it is and synergistic effects shouldn't be ignored.

@jonstfrancis Год назад

@@FreshwaterIchthyology Also, don't plants release CO2 when not photosynthesising? Plants also produce waste of course. I've kept a tank going for about a decade with emergent sedge growth and somehow assumed the emergent growth allowed Nitrogen release from the Nitrogen Cycle, am I wrong in that?

@FreshwaterIchthyology Год назад

Plants are constantly respiring whether or not they are photosynthesizing. So they are always releasing CO2 but that shouldn't be so much the issue. Sedges are very nutrient greedy plants so if you remove any dying foliage they aren't a bad plant to choose, reeds and rushes are even better. But they will likely still take out oxygen from the water where their leaves are emergent. I wouldn't say they release any nitrogen into the air as any nitrogen they take up will be stored in their tissues. Most of what the leaves release is water and gases such as oxygen and CO2.

@jonstfrancis Год назад

@@FreshwaterIchthyology That makes sense!

@Mr-M.Fastbike1000 Год назад

What would be the best way to increase oxygen? Water surface agitation ? Or an air stone?.. Thanks 😊

@FreshwaterIchthyology Год назад

Surface agitation and airstones, anything to get the surface moving. Additionally anything that circulates any oxygenated water around the tank.

@daltonfantv6209 Год назад

Finished college in England and had a huge interest in Freshwater fish and Ichthyology and really wanted to go uni to expand my knowledge but a lot of the course seemed to be marine based or fishery based I was just wondering what you did to get where your at today?

@FreshwaterIchthyology Год назад

Sorry for the slow reply. Most courses will be marine which isn't entirely bad because the basics of fish biology are extremely useful. I did the academic route which it might be best to explain in an entire video. But I worked in the aquarium trade from A levels to first year of masters, it's great for understanding husbandry. My undergraduate degree in biology I chose modules in evolution and physiology along with any in fishes. I think biology gives a wider background and allows you to study a wider range of topics then marine biology, hence I did two geography modules on biogeography and freshwater ecosystems. My undergraduate university also was a lot more free regarding choosing a final project whereas some uni's are a bit more limited. I did do a masters degree in what I found interesting about fishes as if you're looking at science it's better to go more for the topic then for the taxa as that's what will indicate future jobs. Being active in the aquarium hobby has helped and through catfish specialist groups I've built a lot of contacts, there are also groups for killifishes, cichlids and livebearers many of these Facebook groups will have scientists or those connected. I got my museum volunteering and contacts through that. The undergraduate degree I'm not sure matters as much as long as you've done the modules that give you an understanding of your topic. Masters is where you really focus on a topic for anywhere from 3 months to two years.

@daltonfantv6209 Год назад

@@FreshwaterIchthyology thank you so much for the detailed response and wonderful work in the new issue of PFK to which I’ve just seen you were featured all very informative and helpful thank you

@FreshwaterIchthyology Год назад

@@daltonfantv6209 Thanks! Didn't even realise it came out till you said haha.

@Dan_Slee Год назад

Yeah... the botanicals are NOT the problem. You removed a few but left in the wood... Not to mention the fact it is dried leaves (very little nutrients left in them if naturally dropped). By the stage they are breaking down, all of the nutrients etc have all been leeched out long ago. Its mostly just releasing acids and leaving behind fiber at that point. The only reason to remove botanicals from a tank is b/c it is an eye sore or creating too much detritus/mulm. As for the oxygen effect... yeah this will never be a problem unless you have like 50% of your volume is decaying leaves, and it would be a problem when you add them to the tank, not when they are mostly broken down. As for bacteria... blackwater and tannins are antimicrobial... so I don't see a whole lot of logic to this idea that the bacteria are going crazy... ITs a good topic to bring up, but I think you drastically jumped to quite a few conclusions that just aren't supported by some simple logic tests.

@FreshwaterIchthyology Год назад

I think you might have missed quite a bit of what I mentioned in the video as I have used a variety of botanicals in the past with similar results. And my experience hasn't let me to any conclusions it just gave me a rabbit hole to go down. You mention tannoids being antibacterial, and yes they likely have antibacterial properties but it is not that much. If they were so antibacterial that they could prevent this then they wouldn't be decaying in the first place and bacteria are important in keeping an aquarium as it is. Tannoids also vary in the actual tannoid between species of plants and the actual volume, in fact tannoids are what make certain plants toxic. They can be considered antinutritional (Samtiya, M., Aluko, R. E., & Dhewa, T. (2020). Plant food anti-nutritional factors and their reduction strategies: an overview. Food Production, Processing and Nutrition, 2, 1-14.) so they are not simple in their use as well. I think I clearly mentioned and forgive me if not the major issue with leaf litter is not so much the leaves themselves but the waste they trap below or anything that is free to decay. Leaf litter itself is very difficult to siphon and remove any of that trapped waste. So more it just needs consideration in their use and particularly what fish will you keep in there? Rivers and lakes have quite complex functions to manage oxygen, decomposition etc. If that oxygen is low then there are fishes who can manage those lower oxygen levels but not all. The issue with a lot of pro-leaf litter is the generalization of fishes. To manage any trapped waste additionally stocking levels should be considered.

@FreshwaterIchthyology Год назад

Following the rest of my reply, it's not as I explained just the decay that is the issue but the sugars leaching out that are fed on by it seems bacteria mostly. Each plant will differ. In nature it's not just dried leaves that will fall and it'll vary on the plant and the location. Most people would never assume oxygen because how many test for it? Many will assume if they have a filter, plants etc. there is no issue with the fishes obtaining enough oxygen. Even the liquid test kits have questionable reliability and a reliable probe to test oxygen saturation is expensive and requires calibration between use. It's something to consider. And it's not just leaves but leaves are the first botanical people jump to, woods etc. anything that is adding a lot of nutrients into the water. Mainly being when people add large volumes at one time or leave large volumes in the aquarium. For leaf litter trapped waste is a big factor and the difficulty siphoning.

@jonstfrancis Год назад

Interesting points you make. Do you measure the oxygen saturation in the water? I actually once had an unfiltered tank lose all its oxygen and have a catastrophic crash over night and everything in it died, (there were no fish just waterlice and snails etc) I think it happened because the lid became sealed due to condensation. Both my tanks have surface movement, well planted with only tiny fish etc so I assume the oxygen levels are good.

@FreshwaterIchthyology Год назад

There are liquid test kits for oxygen saturation but honestly I question their reliability just by how they are used. I have used probes as well, a lot more expensive but they can't be placed everywhere in the aquarium and oxygen saturation will vary a lot in different places in the aquarium.

@FreshwaterIchthyology Год назад

Sudden deaths could be a few things and particularly the water parameters I find they are untraceable before many even notice. Oxygen saturation can suddenly change as well.

@jonstfrancis Год назад

@@FreshwaterIchthyology Sudden changes in parameters can be various, you are right, it's one reason why I'm not a practitioner of like 90% water changes but then I'm not filtering on the edge like many hobbyists with big fish as I only keep minnows.

@FreshwaterIchthyology Год назад

I've done larger water changes and generally they aren't so much sudden but depends on the source water. Seasonally water companies can change water source. The only issue is maintaining temperatures so it's not a drastic change, so in winter I have to go around 45% do more water changes but in summer I can easily get away with 75%.