My Dad turns 84 this year. Is a retired USN surface warfare officer who was commended for being an expert ship handler in his time during the Cold War. He called about a week ago asking if I knew any good information sources online about current civilian ship technology and systems. One of his first duty stations was in the engineering department of a 'WW2 leftover' LST with its main propulsion being a pair of EMD 567 diesels like those used in locomotives of the era, so he's looking for info which speaks his language. Just sent him this.
I have some time with EMDs super reliable engines they just leak everywhere. I’ve had them as propulsion engines and marine generators. The supercharging is different between the 2 types otherwise the rest of the engine is the same
@@steamman9193 Dad wasn't in to trains but in my college years he came to visit me and one drizzly Sunday we had free reign on the grounds of a nearby museum which has since moved. We invited ourselves in to the EMD E8 locomotive and Dad became animated when he saw its pair of EMD 567s. :) After retirement he was in to the flight simulator computer programs and eventually got in to the railway simulators as they became available. I've still not yet made a scale model railroader out of him.
The general rule of when you overhaul an EMD is when it reaches the point where it leaks faster than you can add oil. This is one motor that never rusts.
Thanks for the video. By all means start a tour of the ship. Being a land lubber, I enjoy the detail of what it takes to operate and maintain a vessel of this size.
I am an electrical engineer, now retired, and I worked for a short period in the 1980's on a converted side trawler called Cedarlea commissioned in the 1960's (? I think). Everything was powered from 2 McClaren diesel auxiliary power trains (generator, compressor, G/S pump. 200vDC was interesting, particularly when under way in a swell, with only a red wooden bar to cling onto on the front of the Amersham Controls distribution panel. Every isolation switch and low voltage disconnector was an open frame switch, so lots of exposed metal! Keep the videos coming I find your videos very interesting. An engineer's curiosity never dies.
I was amazed to hear waves breaking off the hull, from the inside. Keep on showing us around any chance you get, fascinating engineering and operations on board your vessel. Thanks for the details.
Then you should watch a video of the engineering passageway in a storm. The bending of the hull is just incredible. I have seen better footage, but this was the best I could find right now: ru-vid.com/video/%D0%B2%D0%B8%D0%B4%D0%B5%D0%BE-mnWPhG8Ss0o.htmlsi=EoRA98P2UziOIv3n
Thank you and all the other mariners who keep the world going. Also, thank you for showing us the areas that most people will never get to see. Much love from North Carolina
Great video, brings back memories of working on a much smaller ship (42,000 DWT) built by Hyundai in Ulsan. Love the sound of the water on and around the hull when underway. I can imagine the damp, cool, slightly stale air in such spaces as I watch the video.
As a shipbuilder I only recommend these types of videos, many people have no idea how much energy a ship uses. As an electrician it is nice to see how things are done on other vessels. 6600Volts is 6,6 Kilovolts. It's a pity that the data from the engine plate did not appear on the screen, so that we could see how many Megawatts or Amperes the bow thruster uses. The high voltage of 6.6 KV is because otherwise the currents would be too high. In ordinary copper cables at a voltage of 400 volts, the currents would be much too high. This is the simple law of power, simple example, assuming the bow thruster is a mega watt (1000000 watts) 1000000 watts / 400volts=2500Amperes 1000000 watts / 6600volts=151Amperes The bow thruster is a good example of how electricity works. Mechanical energy from the generators is converted into an electrical current / rotating field of 50 to 60 Hz, which is transported through the cables, where the electrical energy is converted into a mechanical movement of the electric motor. and the bow thruster.
Well you should be able to easily calculate the amps it draws because he told you the HP, and then the voltage. I have no idea why you felt it was useful to tell us that 6,600 volts was also 6.6KV, I mean, its also .0066MV I mean did you think you were somehow correcting him or something? The Bow thruster is also a good example of a very inefficient way to power something and is why they don't power the main screw that way, and BTW why cars should not be powered that way.
@@integr8er66 Why is the bow thruster inefficient? As far I know there are quite a few diesel electric ships around, even pure electric ones, mostly ferries. I am genuinely curious. Though of course you get the inefficiency from converting to electric and then back to mechanical. but that should still be around 90% efficient if I may offer a guess.
I was an Auxiliary Electrician Forward on 688- class SSNs and was picking up what you were putting down. It's remarkable that naval engineering, architecture and operational requirements seem to maintain a baseline across platforms, even those that leave the surface and go deep. Be safe out there.........................
This is how good channels get started. Knowledgeable expert comments on current event; established channel (Sal) sends a referral. Keep it up! I find this content super cool, and I'm sure others will as well.
I had 1800 hp motor on my G3 ro/ro and the motor was twice that size in hight and width. My ships were 745 ft loa and 106 ft beam. so the higher voltage allows the motor to be smaller as cables/ windings are smaller. 1 ship was 9 cylinder sulzer and the other 2 were 9 cylinder MANs
Back in the 80s when I was 12 or so I got a short practice period at ABB and two of those weeks were with the test and evaluation engineers. Don't remember the specifics but there was some rather frightening voltages and currents available at their test bench. But when they got one of those monsters in from a ferry between Sweden and Finland they scratched their heads and stated "How are we supposed to test *that*". They managed to get it running a bit but then my period ended but it sure was impressive just to see it turning and knowing what power that required.
@@steamman9193 And there's always the safety of filming live medium voltage starters. I live about 35 miles south to the Key bridge. It should be a informational report on their lack of procedures from that night. Can't wait! Thanks for your reply.
Performance of the bow thrusters might be an interesting topic. What will it do under best case, and when's it basically doing nothing even if you turn it on.
A 3,500 hp thruster will make roughly 35 tons of force. At lighter drafts and low speed it will have a noticeable effect on the bow. With the ship stopped it could get the bow going about 1kt in either direction after running for a bit. At a full load draft it's gonna struggle to move the bow very quickly but it will help out. Also once the ship is moving ahead more than 4kts or so affect is far less noticeable. Conversely most harbor tugs start at 45 tons of force and go up to 90 tons.
I used to build aircraft carriers. We had total loss of AC multiple times in construction. I carried a flashlight and chemlights in my helmet. You have not been in the dark until you’ve been on a ship with no power.
I work in construction from time to time. I always have 2-3 lights on me at all times. So many times when I’m about to go into a live electrical panel, the sparky’s kill the lights.
I’m kind of curious on the actual bus layouts and the switching of power. On emergency power I’m more familiar with using large automatic transfer switches to switch between different power sources. The transfer switches often had complicated manual bypasses that involved opening certain circuit breakers and closing others. Often there were kirk key interlocks that had to be moved.
My hesitation in getting too detailed into that is there is no industry standard. This ship has an arrangement I’ve never seen anywhere else. It follows the rules to accomplish the task but they can all do it differently
What does the bow thruster do in relation to running the ship? I'm learning quite a bit by watching specific videos after this disaster, so thank you for sharing more of the nuts and bolts of being on a container ship. I still have lots of holes in my knowledge, but I appreciate your helping to fill in some of the empty spaces. Safe travels/voyages always.
It’s only used docking and undocking it essentially replaces 1 tug boat. Stern thrusters are a thing too I’ve only sailed on 1 class of ship with them, it was a container ship. They are extremely common on some types of ships like ferry’s and cruise ships
The important point is that they do not have nearly enough power to turn the ship when it is in motion. When there's no water flowing over the rudder, you cannot change the direction of the ship
Depends on the ship. Cable layers use tunnel and swingdown azimuthing bow thrusters to maintain vessel position and orientation during cable ops. The azimuthing thruster can actually be used for a bit of propulsion
@@ArtStoneUSUhm, your explanation is completely wrong. If it were impossible to turn the ship with no water over the rudder then a bow thruster would not do what it does, because when you are docking or unlocking there is no water over the rudder, it may be correct though that it won't turn the ship while underway though, but that would mean its not able to turn the ship when there IS water over the rudder.
Another reason for very high voltage is to reduce the amount of loss when transmitting power over such a long distance. It’s the same reason why the powerlines you see on land the big metal towers run at hundreds of thousands of volts; to reduce the loss between the powerplant and the substation which transforms it down to a lower voltage that’s usable in your home.
Excellent to see you down there showing us about. Does your ship had a routine where the emergency fire/bilge pump is flashed up on emergency power to see it it all still work? How many fire /bilge pumps does your ship have, and how long would it take to flash them up to pump out ta forward cargo hold. ? Are there a large number of valves to be opened to do that? Thank you!!
Yes the fire pumps weekly there are 2 feed from completely independent and separate sources. No valves to line up just push any of the green buttons and you’ll have water in a few seconds to any ships fire station
That is an enormous motor. I work on inverters for automotive electric vehicles. I can see the scale is many magnitudes larger here, including the voltage. We work with 400 to 800 Volts.
@@steamman9193 I actually do not own one myself, even though I have been working on hybrids and battery electric vehicles for about 10 years. I am impressed with the LFP batteries, but few vehicles have them yet. Great channel too!
I like the tech details, so mine how big is the fire pump motor and how many GPM does it put out? How many do you have? Why are they not RED? (grin) I think Sal's channel is great for the big picture but what makes ships run happens at your level and the guys working for you.
You’re probably feeling a little overwhelmed by the huge jump in subscribers 😅 you’re doing great! I do have a question.. I was wondering why the drive shaft is exposed to open air in the engine room. I would have expected it to be enclosed in either a special cage or steel like the other parts of the engine.
I guess it has to transition somewhere it’s probably considered safe where it’s located from wandering appendages. We always revert back to manufactures installation weather additional guards are required
That is a huge motor!!! I was a diesel mechanic for 16 years and am now an electrician so the generator systems are fascinating to me on my past and my current careers. I assume the main generators are 480 3 phase? And there is a huge step up transformer for the bow thruster moror?
@@steamman9193 I would love that! Can one specialize in electrical on a ship? I would like to become a sailor once I'm an empty nester in afew years, and I can't decide between engine or deck. Engine is more of what I know and deck is appealing because it would be new and I like being outside. Any thoughts?
@@shawnbeerens4292yeah man electricians are in high demand and make good money. If you are really interested google MFOW the marine firemans union they’ll set you up
@@steamman9193 thank you for the info! The merchant marine is kind of an elusive thing and if you don't know where to look you never know! You would think bring from Michigan the merchant marine would be advised everywhere with the freighters and all. Thank you again I'll look into it?
If lights go out and it's completely dark I'm happy that I carry a flashlight in my pocket, a leatherman and wrench pliers too. Just look at the size of that motor. I work on small stuff.
Depends. If it has a fixed ventilation system like this has then no it’s not necessary. If it’s a space with a bolted or fixed entrance than it must be ventilated and tested prior to entry
I have a question, but it's not directly related to this video. If all the generators go down, can the propulsion engine keep running? If so, is there a time limit on how long it can run?
No it will immediately shut down on safety’s during a blackout. The next thing is can it be restarted? And the answer is maybe? There is a limits cancel option but can the engine actually make any power without electricity feeding the fuel pumps and air blowers?
Great question and they won’t all be the same but essentially it’s common spaces like Lounges and galley and work spaces as well as passageways, stairs, and essential spaces like damage control lockers, engine control room, emergency generator room, co2 room
A question. So these bow trusters can or can't function in an emergency off a storage power bank. ?! No need for them to run full time hours on end, but like 5-10 minutes on their own dedicated energy in case of emergency?!?! To run the 3500hp (2600kw) bow truster motor for like 5min would need a power bank of 250-300kwh a trivial 3 tons.
It seems odd, given the recent headlines about the container ship that lost control and destroyed a bridge in Baltimore that there was no discussion of how this container ships bow thruster has any bearing on that disaster.
@@integr8er66 I’m sorry. This seems like a fairly technical site so I assumed that I would be obvious The questions I would like to see addressed are: 1) did the Dali, also a container ship) have a bow thruster like the one depicted in this video? 2) If it did, why would the diesel generators and their backup(s) not be running and available to power the bow thruster as it transited such a critical path out of the harbor? I realize the answers would require speculation but this channel’s creator seems qualified to do so.
To run a thruster this size takes A LOT of electrical power, so when the Dali experienced a black out the thruster (if running) stopped right away. To get it going again would require getting multiple generators back up, synchronized with each other, and online. Also as a ship begins to lose electrical generation capacity the power management systems will begin to shed loads to try to prevent a blackout. Since the thruster is a HUGE load it will shutdown right away. Also at 8kts a bow thruster won't have much affect on the direction of the ship, some, but very little.
Very interesting, I'm intrigued by the mechanicals of these vessels. I'm a construction and maintenance electrician and no exposure to your industry. Is this motor 3 phase or DC? I see only 2 cables, are they parallel multi conductor cables? I would love to see inside the control cabinets as well.
Two questions: 1) does the BT motos start across the line, Wye Delta start or soft start? 2) You referenced hydraulic head tank and Pumps. Does that mean the BT is variable pitch prop>
Would the Dali have used the bow thruster when departing? Assuming 3 generators when the thruster is running: when would they turn the 3rd generator off? What I'm really wondering is if there's any chance Dali had 3 generators running before the failure.
This is all speculation but it is a possibility the blackout occurred during bow thruster shutdown or associated events with that. My understanding is bow thruster are in effective at speed
The specs I saw for the Dali said that it has 4 generators, all greater than 5000HP each ,and a 4000HP bow thruster, so it would seem that even one running generator would have been enough to activate it. Whether the bow thruster would have been effective at speed is a good question.
@@Sparisland thanks. I wasn't questioning whether the BT could have been helpful after the blackout. I'm just wondering if there was still excess generator capacity at the time of the blackout. Steamman's hypothesis about the blackout happening from complications while shutting down that extra generator is good
Ok. I've got ideas of the accident with the Dali. Would you comment on possibilities (you were not there...just asking you to speculate) or, if you already hav3, could you point me to it
There are so many possibilities and I could tell you 30 and not 1 of them be what actually happened. Then it just starts to circulate around that I said it was this, it’s not a good idea
yes but its also a balance of up front construction cost, which is why bow thrusters are done this way (inefficient power consumption, but much cheaper to build, but pays off because its only used intermittently) and why propulsion isn't.
Hey Chief, I think you're doing a fantastic job. (Sal sent me.) You're talking to a total landlubber but I see you also resonate with long term professional mariners! Your presentation is very informative especially with regard to all that's going on now (Dali and Houthi's). Do you have a bluetooth (phone) earpiece? That (or an old wired headset) would probably improve your audio quality. Given the noisy background - check out RODE gear.
I have to try that. It’s been a hardship of making ship videos for years what do I do for sound? And I didn’t get paid for it so how much should I have invested out of my pocket?
@@steamman9193 A bluetooth one MIGHT cause a bit of 'lip sync delay' issue but the wired one will not. Viewers will see the wire - but so what? You're doin' a Great Job Chief!!
Thanks for the videos! They’re very informative and interesting. What do you use for A/C on a cargo/container ship? Centrifugal or Screw type chillers? What refrigerants do you use?
Every type you can imagine. Depends on where and when the ship was built. There’s still some r-12 floating around this one has a scroll for AC. Food stores are recips. Cargo containers have mostly been replaced with scrolls
@@steamman9193 former shift test engineer for A4W reactor plant on aircraft carriers in new construction. We had people. Lots of people. Just a few automatic control systems for water levels in steam generators and hot wells, but very little automation overall. Most valves are manual except those for casualty response which had motor operators (air or electric). My question is if there is a fuel problem can you remotely change strainers or is that a manual operation?
@@scottkelley1558it’s hard to describe how easy these big box boats are to keep going there are alarms upon alarms for pressures way before the generator would shut down before a filter change. And they should have been on nice clean low sulfur diesel at the time anyway. As far as total automation the navy is ass backwards, go back in my videos some years you ll find a 1976 steam tanker that had unmanned engine room capability it was pretty awesome and super reliable. The age of the hull is the only thing that killed that ship no oil company wants the news channels hammering them On why they have 40 year old ships
If that was me I'd be carrying an emergency head-torch with fresh batteries as from my experience UPS (etc) stands for You Really Think This Thing Is Going To Work When Needed?. Yes I know that it does not follow the acronym, but the best I could come up with is "U Phoney Scam!" ps Shuda read the answer to a comment below.
Most marine engineers carry a flashlight at all times working aboard. You never know when the lights will go out whether working in the bilge or sitting on the can.
