The part about Chimera as CL2 in response to TTT is incorrect. The Natasha ruling that you cited is not applicable here. They are not the same scenario. There are email rulings for TTT and El Shaddoll Construct that say that the person who summons Construct gets the effect. Not the controller. The Natasha ruling is for monsters that are already on the field and are not being triggered by their own movement. There are further rulings with Invoked Augoeides as well that show this.
@@MSTTV1 year later, this was reversed today by addressing directly CL2 IP into SP versus CL1 TTT (take). They further updated the ruling of "Couple of Aces VS Remove Brainwashing" that used to work exactly as the original comment said. TLDR; the current controller (player using TTT) now gets the on summon trigger effect. Tom I hope you address this to give it enough attention because it can be super impactful due to SP's meta relevance. Hopefully we could even get an official response.
Funny enough I took a judge call that was the Natasha v Chengying ruling verbatim at one of the remote tier 3 events. I officially ruled it as they did so in the ocg, but still suggested to the players to appeal cause of the history of these types of rulings. The head judge came in and overruled it saying the player who summoned the monster would be able to use the effect while citing the masquerena into unicorn v tactics ruling. So yes, please ask a judge or preemptively get the head judge’s insight on this particular ruling!
The more you learn. I was not aware of the weird "semi" ruling when you take over Chimera mid-chain. Or that the last thing to happen in the previous chain dictates whether Branded Lost/Magical Meltdown is active or not. Good to know in the future when I face those pesky Invoked players that cannot seem to keep their slobber off of my side of the table.
Regarding Chimera, what are the game rules we know that apply? - Cards activate and resolve in the same location. An Effect Veiler discarded from the hand resolves in the hand. A Conquistador banished from the GY resolves in the GY. A Pankratops tributed from the field resolves on the field. Etc. - Cards cannot activate in the middle of a chain resolution. - Cards miss timing with the clause "When... you can...", but "If" clauses activate when possible without missing timing. So, Guardian Chimera says " If this card is Fusion Summoned by a Spell Card or effect: You can draw cards equal to the number of cards used as material from the hand, and if you do, destroy cards your opponent controls equal to the number of cards used as material from the field. " "If" means it won't miss timing. "You" designates the controller of the card when activating the effect. The card text does not specify whose cards were used from the hand and field, just that cards were used as material "from the hand" and "from the field". Chimera could not activate as soon as it was summoned, because Tactics had not resolved yet. The earliest opportunity to activate the effect happens after control of it changes, at which point "You" is designating the current controller, the one who activated the Tactics. Compare to when I Normal Summon Aleister and activate the search effect on summon, and my opponent chains Crackdown. At resolution, he controls my Aleister, but I get the search because the effect was activated on MY side of the field.
@@Lgnd_KillrMakoto Thus, the longstanding tradition of the "because Konami said so" ruling lives on, despite established mechanics indicating otherwise.
@@ShrankTheFirst wrong, this is not because konami said so, it's been this way going way back. Someone just recently decided to extrapolate a ruling based off of another ruling. Unfortunately that was not the same kind of ruling.
Damn that's confusing! Magical Meltdown: > The activation of your cards and effects that include an effect that Fusion Summons a Fusion Monster cannot be negated, also *your opponent's cards and effects cannot activate* when a monster is Fusion Summoned this way Branded Lost: > The activation of your cards and effects that include an effect that Fusion Summons a Fusion Monster cannot be negated, also *your opponent cannot activate cards or effects* when a monster is Fusion Summoned this way.
@@Boristien405 It doesn't at all xD! It just states that your opponent cannot answer in the Summon Response Window *when* a Fusion monster is Fusion Summoned.
Magical Meltdown and Branded Lost prevents you from negating the Activations of (cards that would perform a fusion summon) and Activations of (effects of cards that would perform a fusion summon). Ash does not negate the activation of the card or activation of the effect, and thus is allowed to stop the Branded fusion or any other fusion card from resolving(except super poly of course).
isnt the difference here that your oponents mandatory effects will still be able to trigger with branded lost because it states specifically that your oponent cannot activate versus your oponents cards?
Question 4: guardian chimera is an “If” not a “when” so it will activate and resolve its effect but Triple T resolves first and takes control of chimera. Chimera activates it’s effect as a new chain link on the player’s side of the field who took chimera. Therefore allowing the player to reap the benefits of the card.
@@Lgnd_KillrMakoto Yeah! It is a controversy at the moment. Some judges say that they received an email time ago explaining how the interaction works, but still there's no consensus on whatever it activates on the owner's field or on the new controller's field.
@@jangaman7823 But the location (Monster Zone on the FIELD) is still correct, it doesn't matter that it swapped controller. You get a properly fusion summoned Chimera ON THE SUMMON RESPONSE WINDOW, with identifiable materials (no BoM shenanigans) and provided its owner (your opponent) HAS cards on their field and your deck is more than your required draws, you technically check all points of legally activating that effect. On the other hand it makes no sense for your opponent to activate an effect from a card they don't even POSSESS at that point.
One cool thing is that since mirrorjade has a quick effect, you can actually activate it on summon , preventing the opponent to respond to it under branded lost. All of this because you are activating mirrorjade's effect on summon
This only works if your chaining mirrorjade to a card like Despia tragedy(which most of the time you will) but if u just summon mirrorjade by itself and then say activate mirrorjade it can be responded to. Reason is because the summon window is done as where if u used tragedy for the summon of mirrorjade THAT is during the summon window where u can chain mirrorjade and can’t respond
@@cshadow20 ... what? Do you understand what the response window is? It includes any quick-effect activated right after the summon of a monster, before the game is in an open state again. Once Mirrojade hits the field, assuming it was a result of a Chain Link 1, all you gotta do is say "In response to the summon of Mirrorjade, I active Mirrojade's effect" and under Branded Lost, your opponent cannot chain anything to that. This is not "Chain Blocking", this is simply using the continuous effect of Branded Lost.
I learned a lot from this video. I had no idea about the cosmic cyclone interactiom with branded lost question and I guessed on the Chimera and got lucky! Thank you so much for doing these kind of videos. 👍
I don’t get this question. Because I thought the effect of lubellion is a new chain? Because CC already left the field, because it resolved. So basically Branded in Red resolves, then cc goes to the grave and then on a new chain lubellion activates effect when summoned?
While I did know that Lost prevented stuff from chaining after a fusion, I was under the impression the fusion monster's effect would need to be last in the chain if there are multiple chains. This clears that up nicely thanks
Thanks Tom! Overall: 4 / 6 1a. The effect of BF will resolve negated ( o ) 1b. BF will not be negated ( x ) (misread branded lost, damn, i thought its fkn broken) 2. Effect Veiler is only during MP ( o ) 3a. No, you may not react to Lubellion since Branded Lost prevents you from responding to a fusion summon (which in this case the whole chain responds to, sine it was the last thing that happened) ( o ) 3b. Yes, you can respond with Ash and Lance, since the last thing to happen was resolving Cyclone ( o ) 4. The owner of Chimera ( maybe/most likely x )
Those purple sleeves look SO awesome! Good rulings to know about Branded Lost, because people were even thinking Branded Lost is more oppresive and ban-worthy than Magical Meltdown.
I learned a lot of this playing master duel. They have easy to understand rulings and if they get prompted or not. In the Chimera chain, you gain Chimera but none of the effects are on stack anymore because the cards that are used are not the original owner when summon has resolved.
Pending Correction: Guardian Chimera vs TTT. Guardian Chimera is a summon trigger and triggered on the owners side, the summoner of the Guardian Chimera gets to use the trigger no the controller. I am awaiting for someone to post a link to the email reference like Construct to TTT so we can have a more updated precedent otherwise, ask the HJ at the event.
Just had my state championships this past weekend and all of these rulings came up not necessary for me but in the event itself. Luckily I knew all of these interactions before I went into it so I knew all the answers
Question 3b was a strange one I had to rewatch it a few times to make sense out of it. So basically always make sure the fusion summon is chain 1 and you'll be safe from interuption! Thanks for the video this was super helpful!👍
I still Dont get it. It is a new chain with lubellion being chain link 1. The cosmic cyclone was another chain. This looks to me like the scenario with questions 3a
@@Tarismes 1st chain link. The fusion summon happened on CL2 since Branded in Red was used (CL2) in response to Cosmic Cyclone (CL1). Therefore, the summon response window was skipped in this case. Now, the 2nd CL is just a new CL without being associated to any timing.
Is there any chance we could get a picture of the cards or just the cards effects somewhere on the screen before you give us the answer? I know what some of the cards do but not exactly how they're worded and I think this would help out those who have never seen/heard of the cards in question.
I've seen people post database entries for the last ruling that contradict the answer you gave. It seems like it's not 100% cleared up, but I think your ruling makes the most sense.
I got Q2 wrong not because I didn't know about Effect Veiler's main phase clause (it's come up a few times in casual play during battle phase) but because I did not know that the phases were not advanced.
This is my thing, if I could just do everything outside of main phase then why is effect veilers even considered a side deck option if the pros can just not announce their phases and get around effect veilers effect. By the very fact he activated opening I would think he advanced the phases without announcing it because if you can so "casually forget" to advance the phases making all effect veilers worthless then that is just stupid. what if you didn't forget and you are doing it on purpose to block effect veiler?
So basically, with stuff like Branded Lost the last thing _to have resolved_ needs to be a Fusion Summon. 3a: Last thing to resolve was Lubellion's Fusion Summon. Chain lock is ON. 3b: Last thing to resolve was Cosmic Cyclone. Chain lock is OFF.
but wait, by that logic, if i use branded fusion to fusion summon, that is the last thing to resolve on the chain. so my opponent should not be able to ash branded fusion if branded lost is on the board...this is very confusing.
@@jeremiahriley663 You didn't pay attention to the 2nd question then. And the op comment was wrong as well. In Q 3a, last resolve is Branded in Red, thus enable Lost protection. But in Q 3b, Cosmic Cyclone was last to resolve, thus Lost doesn't protect. Again, Ash negate the Effect, doesn't negates the Activation, that's why Ash can still negate Branded fusion under Lost.
To answer at the 4th question: after TTT resolution chimera don't resolve it's effect (I played this situation many times on Master Duel) and no one draw and destroy cards.
Question regarding question 3A. Replace Lubellion with Mirrorjade. On summon of Mirrorjade, can you attempt its effect to banish a monster, and the opponent not be allowed to respond due to Branded Lost?
you are in the Summon response window and you can activate quick effects here. If you activate mirrorjades effect banish effect in the Summon response window, your opponent cannot respond if branded lost applies
@@VORTEX___ I know you're correct, but I mainly asked because a couple of people at locals won't believe me and think I'm wrong, and refuse to believe anybody unless they are RC-2 judges or higher... pretty ridiculous.
@@lordartorias1316 Just refer to the fast effect timing chart. There you can clearly see, that after each resolved chain you go through the process of "Does this activate a triggered effect?" No? -> "Turn player can activate fast effect" Pass -> "Opponent can activate fast effect". So if the fusion summon happened at CL1, the quick effect is still responding to the summon. Also, i hope they never have Veilered or Impermed an Accesscode after its ATK gain, since thats the exact same timing ("on resolution") as Mirrorjade in this instance. So if they get that you can respond to ACs resoltuion, then they should also understand that Mirrorjade basically works the same (timing-wise) in this szenario.
Well a chain doesn't resolve like that. Yes it's Chain Link 1 but it was the last to resolve. If saying First to occurred was Cyclone than that mean Branded in Red is last, that would prompt Lost to protect, but it doesn't.
Tombox: *Incredibly niche ruling question* What is your response? Me, an intellectual: Ask a judge. Tombox: You... pass every one of these videos for the rest of time. Congratulations! Me: ;u;
there is alot here so sorry but do please read through as about half are references! quick question for 1a & 1b, How is Ash Blossom even able to chain to Branded fusion in the first place? nowhere on branded fusion does it's "effect" send cards from the deck to the GY (the reason it's able to be played under Macro Cosmos) and "Ash Blossom" specifically states it can only be activated against cards where the "effect" includes sending from the deck to the GY (in addition to Draw or summon from deck, but those are not relevant here) Branded Fusion: "Fusion Summon 1 Fusion Monster that mentions "Fallen of Albaz" as material from your Extra Deck, using 2 monsters from your hand, Deck, or field as Fusion Material. You cannot Special Summon monsters from the Extra Deck, except Fusion Monsters, the turn you activate this card. You can only activate 1 "Branded Fusion" once per turn." again, nowhere does it include the effect of sending cards from the deck to the GY! if it was part of the effect to directly send to the GY as effect than it would not be able to play under effects like Macro Cosmos as by ruling Macro Cosmos prevents cards from being sent to the GY (from anywhere) by Effect or Game State Action! Ash Blossom & Joyous Spring: "When a card or effect is activated that includes any of these effects (Quick Effect): You can discard this card; negate that effect. ● Add a card from the Deck to the hand. ● Special Summon from the Deck. ● Send a card from the Deck to the GY. You can only use this effect of "Ash Blossom & Joyous Spring" once per turn." literally first part of the effect of "Ash Blossom" states that "Includes any of these Effects" polymerization ruling on Macro Cosmos: Macro Cosmos: You can still activate cards like "Polymerization" or "Power Bond" and Fusion Summon while the effect of "Macro Cosmos" is active and removing from play the Fusion Material Monsters instead of having them sent to the Graveyard. If "Polymerization" is activated while "Macro Cosmos" is active, then the Fusion Material Monsters to be sent to the Graveyard will be removed from play instead, and the Fusion Monster will still be Fusion Summoned from the Extra Deck. Foolish Burial: (going simplistic here) "Send 1 monster from your Deck to the GY." this can bechained by "Ash Blossom" as it's effect states to send directly from the deck to the GY and for the same reason "Macro Cosmos" also prevents/negates it
Branded fusion is simple. Cards being sent from Deck to GY is a almost like the blanket statement. As long as the deck effect would turn into the action of sending a card from deck to GY on resolution, it counts. Even if macro Cosmos was on the field it wouldn't change that. In a regular game state, if macro was up, and someone tried foolish burial, they would still be able to Ash. Because foolish's effect is to send to GY, although it landed in the GY, the car effect naturally would be sending it to the GY. The card text never changed, only the game state. When cards are used a fusion material, their default is that they are sent to GY as fusion material. That it a thing that happens on resolution. If there is the possibility that are card will end up in the GY on resolution (not on activation), then ash would be applicable.
Regarding Guardian Chimera in Q4: "You" refers to the card's current controller at the moment the effect activates, and "your opponent" refers to the opponent of the player who controls it. Example: I Special Summon Silent Wobby to your field via its effect. Its on-Summon effect activates on your side of the field. _You,_ Wobby's controller, draw the card, and _your opponent,_ i.e. _me,_ gains 2000 LP. During your Main Phase: You can Special Summon this card from your hand to your opponent's side of the field. *When Summoned this way: Draw 1 card, and if you do, your opponent gains 2000 Life Points.* You can only use this effect of "Silent Wobby" once per turn. The hand size limit of this card's controller becomes 3. In the same way, Guardian Chimera's on-Summon effect activates on the bottom player's field, so _they_ get the draw and card-destruction effect because, as Chimera's current controller, the "you" in its effect text refers to them. 3 monsters with different names Must first be Fusion Summoned using only Fusion Materials from your hand and field, with at least 1 monster from each. *If this card is Fusion Summoned by a Spell Card or effect: You can draw cards equal to the number of cards used as material from the hand, and if you do, destroy cards your opponent controls equal to the number of cards used as material from the field.* You can only use this effect of "Guardian Chimera" once per turn. While "Polymerization" is in your GY, your opponent cannot target this card with card effects.
Branded lost and I quote straight from the card ( the activation of your card and effects that include an effect that fusion summons a fusion monster cannot be negated. Cards activation and effects again and effects that include an effect that fusion summons so what am I missing in your logic ??????????
Hey, cool vid but I have a question about example 3b. Does this mean that if Lubellion's effect was a "when" instead of an "if", then it would miss timing to activate it's own on-summon effect?
Ash is actually supposed to do nothing as the effects of cards that include Fusion Summon in their effects cannot be negated either according to Branded Lost rulings.
My Rulling for the Chimera would be that the person in control of it get's to use the effect because there isn't any "Your" hand or field, but it States "The" hand or field.
For number 4 I thought the effect would just fizzle out because I thought it misses timing but I'm wasn't sure. Like it was summoned but it got stolen and put on your opponents side of the field so the window for activating its effect was shut immediately. Since it was stolen after the summon the effect doesn't trigger properly on either side.
I knew the answer to the first question, the wisdom of millions of game replays and receiving a masters in yugiohism had led me to the absolute truth … “just draw the out”
Well the last question is like ttt take control and opponent activate ip masq and summon unicorn. But really, i thought the monster already moved places so it wont activate like dd crow into benten..
I don't understand the point of Branded Lost if it fails to stop the most commonly used/generic negates to deck fusion in the game (Ash and the like). Why did they print a card that only does half it's job, when a single coma (or just 2 less words) would have effectively improved it?
Would you want your Albion or Lubellion or Chimera to be negate by Veiler or Imperm? Yeah sure it doesn't protect from Ash but at least there's protection against other disruption, better than nothing.
A question on the Branded Opening/Effect Veiler ruling: Branded Opening is a quick play, and can be activated in the draw/standby phase to avoid Veiler? Is that the correct ruling here?
Yeah basically. I go on draw phase to activate opening to discard and special Aluber. Aluber eff activates on the draw phase. Veiler can’t negate because it can only negate during the opponent’s main phase in which it cannot because it’s draw phase.
@@CoopTCG quickplay spells can be played during any phase as long as you can meet the requirements (or if your opponent has passed his turn player priority if it isn't your turn)
Coming back a year later to these videos, I find it absolutely obsurd that judges will rule Guardian Chimera "Both Ways" When you have a game that doesn't have a definitive answer to the mechanics of the game, then you have a serious problem
Hey quick question, have you done a video over correctly summoned and and incorrectly summoned monsters? (Ex: trying to reborn a monster sent to grave by dog punishment or similar issue to what I heard happened in ycs charlotte?)
hey tombox! question here. I went to my first locals in years recently. had destiny hero Plasma on the field among maybe also darklaw. the opp activated branded lost, then summoned albaz and used it's eff. im like "yo, but plasma." "yeah but effects that fusion summon can't be negated." we called the judge, and the judge sided with the branded despia player; i proceeded to mop the floor with them anyway, despite the incorrect ruling. ANYWHO. this was at an actual OTS store. there was only one staff member there, in the judge role. Is there anything we, the playerbase, can do to put judges who rule incorrectly in check? is there some system to report a judge who incorrectly judges? seeing as there was no 'higher judge' than them, what can be done?
Say on illegal play number for I feel like when you take control of the monster and you already chose a Target but that Target leaves the field and there's a new Target that the target that triple tactics talent chose first is no longer present on the field which means is a new monster on the field which means the target was missed. It's kind of like you some of magicians rod then your opponent activates infinite impermanence then you chain magician's illusion so you tribute The magician's rod and the effect will still go through because if an impermanence no longer has a Target it's kind of like that
ok but TTT does not target, which means that you can still take control of another monster when the card resolves. you also do not need to state your target before because the card does not target.
in question 3b when he says lubelion doesnt get its fusion summon because it got negated by the chalice shouldnt that be incorrect since branded lost states the effects of a fusion monster effect to fusion summon cannot be negated.
It's the same wording as Ash, sort off. Ash said "Negate that effect", Chalice said "it's effect are negated" So I suppose you can assume Chalice are negating the effects of Lubellion like how Ash negates Branded Fusion.
I had an interesting interaction occur and I’m curious how it’s supposed to be. My opponents turn: He has a magical meltdown. He activates Fusion Destiny, I chain my Branded in Red. Now my chimera comes out and I have mirrorjade, ad libitum, and tragedy banished. At this point, am I able to activate all their effects? My opponent states “no, DPE has to summon first since fusion Destiny started the chain” Ok. I agree and let him summon DPE. Now am I still able to resolve my banished monsters’ effects or not? Judge says “technically, because of meltdown on field, he can activate DPE on summon and you don’t get to resolve ANY of your banished monster’s effects because they basically now missed timing” What is correct in this interaction/timing
Oooo that chain really sucks... Because meltdown is on the field. Your timing is on the summon of his fusion. Because of meltdown you cannot activate any effect at the time of DPE summon. (Since fusion destiny is the last thing on the chain link 1 and resolved last). Due to meltdown: Chimera, Ad libitum and Tragedy all cannot use activate at this time and therefore won't activate at all in that play, since all your effects are trigger effects they happen in the next chain after resolution of the Fusion Destiny + branded in red chain is complete. Meltdown says your opponent cannot activate cards or effects in response to a monster summoned, in which case your timing basically got blocked and cancelled. On the summon, your opponent can even activate DPE on summon due to quick effect and you cannot respond to that either...
i never really got why ash negates fusion, as the card does not state "sending" anything to grave but "using" materials from deck. The action of fusion summoning does, but it's basically the same case as a non-targeting removal where it's pretty obvious you do have to target a card you want to remove, but within the mechanics of the actual card (example: trishula, dingirsu, etc) you're just not targeting anything and as such their effects are able to bypass targeting protection...in this case fusion does not state anything ash can apply its effect to.
In terms of branded fusion, sending cards from deck to grave can be ashed. I may have misread ur message but because branded sends to gy from deck its a go for ash
