@@jeffferguson4632 I changed the injectors at 610k just because (did the tuning myself and advanced timing was pinging a slight bit, and I pay attention to my machines, injectors were still good, took 93 tunes for me to be happy, including Allison tuning) CP3, only changed the FPR once. I did the CAT filter about 500k, it's a good deal but pay attention to possible water in fuel... my compression was 410psi all round at 610k and internals are clean as can be. Keep it driving and it will keep going.
@@jeffferguson4632 Yes. It can stick and over correct at idle causing the engine to surge but if it gets really bad you can start to feel it when cruising. Bolts to the rear of the CP3. My current FPR (second) is starting to surge slightly but it smooths out when the fuel temp rises.
@@tjlqk3 push the button and it’s running. Almost like those cars that shut off and restart at intersections. There is hardly and cranking. But you’re right, I’m sure the time difference is less than a second.
Dave your the greatest , you raised your children strict and proper. My question of curiosity is when one of your boys did something wrong did you send them to there room with a motors manual and memorise the firing orders on all desoto v8,s ever built......😮
Running a 2013 LML DMAX with the CP4 pump and the only owner Have always used Power Service or Hot shot secret fuel additive. The big one is, I change my fuel filter every other oil change no matter what the percentage saids on the dash. Also I get top tier diesel when I can. So far, 471,567 and still going. I think alot has to do with keeping that pump lubricated.
This is the Key. Clean fuel, and a good supply of it. Ford obviously gets the worst in pretension as they have never stopped using the CP4, but I have friends who do exactly what you do and they are well over 300K miles and one just broke 400K in his stock CP4 in a 2018 F350. These pumps can live for a very long time if you maintain them, but at the same time anything man made will fail at some point. It may be today or 20 years from now, but failure is an inevitability.
@@JeraldFahrsitethe issue isn’t the refinery it’s all of the transitions and tanks in between. Every time they open a tank to put fuel in it small amounts of dirt and water enter. The nozzles at the pump collect dirt and moisture. It’s honestly everywhere along the way from the refinery’s. Could you get fuel directly from the refinery and have it be perfectly clean no. It takes basically a 1 micron filter to clean the fuel and that still doesn’t get everything. Plus surprisingly enough there are microbes that can and do grow in diesel and kerosene
@@backinblck1 I know about the microbes in the diesel from my days in the USMC. SOP was that you never allowed the fuel tanks to be anything less than 100% full when vehicles were not being used, because growth of some sort would occur on the sides of the half-empty tank, and then you go to use the vehicle and all that crud is in the tank now. Didn't think about the dirt after the refinery, so thanks for that. I wonder if say for example a State government could mandate filtering standards for fuel at the pump itself, given that the points of entry for contaminants are so many.
@@JeraldFahrsite you nailed it in the last sentence. There are far too many points of entry for contaminants so the ability to mandate a scale is impractical. Proper filter changes and high quality filters on the vehicle itself is really the best source to combat the problem.
My mechanic installed the DCR pump on my 2017 Powerstroke and upgraded the exhaust manifolds along with the stealth g2 turbo and 4” downpipe and it is an eye opener!! Wow, just wow!! The DCR never runs out of fuel. Highly recommend this upgrade and never worry about the cp4 grenading.
@slabslayer258 They don't. This is a big sales tactic, and you're all falling for it. Title is complete horse shit. Cp4s do not "always" fail. Out of millions and millions of Cp4s in the world, less than 5% fail. The 6.7 upper oil pan fails more often.
It's more the complication of having to design and build more and more efficient, "cleaner", and "safer" vehicles and engines. It's an insane bar that keeps getting raised and almost having to reinvent the wheel each time.
This is the type of sponsored or product spotlight video I like to see where you don’t bring in a salesman that tries to sell us on RU-vid. This was informative, cool, and scientific.
I’ve been trying to find a very detailed explanation since I swapped from a duramax to ford. Such a detailed explanation. I will be buying a DCR for sure now!
Hi Dave, I wish that every Mechanic would polite and like to teach people like you. I am a student as a mechanic in Germany and I love the way you teach people you like to share your knowledge with people.
Very educational thank you all... I've ordered a DCR about 15 minutes ago... Dave thank God you share your wisdom and knowledge... may the good lord bless you and your family...
i have an appointment to get my conversion done in the morning on my 2020 with 36k miles and have had no issues with the cp4 to date... i feel like neo in the matrix dodging bullets every time i drive it. hopefully i will feel like smith after, that can never die.
The cp4 isn't really as bad as people make it out to be, most of the failures are caused by people putting Def, gasoline or contaminated fuel in the tank. That being said, I dropped my truck off yesterday to get a dcr pump installed. I've rather pay 3k bow than risk a 10-15k repair down the road
Stanadyne pumps, components & products are the best, proven designs that last. Their fuel additives work - 370K on my 1988 7.3 IDI that has always had their fuel addative used. Still on 2nd set fuel injectors +1 & 5th set glow plugs. Only system weak links are rubber o rings & hoses- "consumables"
Thank you for the tear down and showing exactly how the stock pump works. I was considering the fail safe kit at first. After seeing how the AP4 actually operates, I can’t imagine the wear and ultimate catastrophe. Calling my mechanic tomorrow. Thanks again.
The best thing i did was install the dcr on my 2018 f350. It has been on for just a little over a year now, and there no issues at all. Well worth every penny. It is very easy to install if you are mechanically inclined.
I wish there was a Dave's Auto on every corner so we could all have good reliable running vehicles and not some junk people try to make into a returning customer.
@@normangiven6436 I do most of work myself unless I don't feel like it. That's why I really don't like new cars because of all the bullshit you can't do on them because you're not certified. If I do buy another vehicle it's going to be something not controlled by a computer that you have to subscribe to.
@@edwardtabor77 I agree with that 100%. I have a guy that I trust when I can't do anything or have trouble with something that I'm not sure of I use that guy. He's not out to rob anybody but he's also not going to do it for free. He'll either point you in the right direction or tell you what you need to do for him to fix your shit right. Those guys are priceless.
Lot of euro cars use electric supply pumps and a lot are actuated when you open the door and may even activate the glow plugs depending on temperature. All saving wear and tear on startup. Having full fuel available at the high pressure pump avoids fuel cavitation and dry wear.
I installed a DCR last week. I noticed my truck starts up really quick, I theorize that should extend my starters life as well as the other obvious disasters.
2015 6.7, 220,000 miles. 10,000 mile oil changes, had 100,000k on fuel filters before changing them. Deleted egr, def etc. No issues. I think this got over hyped by some great PR for the bypass systems and upgrades.
Luke is the best! I had a failure with my CP3 conversion in my 20 Cummins and he overnighted the part because we were 8 hrs from home. This was before the recall and the issue was most likely me over torquing a block off plug on the high pressure manifold.
The worst CP4 failure I've had on a customer vehicle was a pump that seized just like you guys were saying. It was on a LML duramax, when it seized up it did not break off the crank or cam pins. The gear on the CP4 cracked and partially blew up, shrapenal shot a hole through the front cover and some of it went through the crankshaft gear, damaging the crank shaft gear. Customer traded in the vehicle before we knew that it needed more than a complete fuel system. Bad situation but I still think it worked out better for him. Pretty much every CP4 failure I've had was on company vehicles, getting fuel from questionable sources, steel slip tanks, etc. (I'm in Canada, I think our fuel is a little bit better)
13:43 got it from both sides: “You have to put your purse down” and “want me to do that for you son?” 🤣🤣🤣 It’s funny and awesome that we can learn and laugh.
I’ve already changed out my CP4 for the S&S DCR pump,it’s the best thing I’ve done for my 6.7 PSD, before that I had the S&S disaster kit. I still run the Archoil AR6500 Diesel Treatment every fill up, the key to a happy fuel delivery system. My personal opinion about welding the crank gear is so it was so designed to slip in case the high-pressure fuel pump failure now you circumvent the original design that Ford put into it because they knew the CP4 fuel pump would’ve eventually fail. Would you rather have the crank gear slip or cause more damage due not letting the slippage on the crank when the pump failed. The DTC P0016 is set when there is a slippage between the crank and the cam gear. If you weld the crank gear then there’s no reason to have the code P0016 because now you won’t have slippage. I believe that there is enough interference fit to drive the cam and the high pressure fuel pump as designed.
I always love your viedos Dave! They are well worth the watch! Great, great, great!, words of wisdom and knowledge for some of us young business owners/technicians. Thanks for your time! Everytime
I use a combo of Power Service Diesel Clean + Cetane Boost and Marvel Mystery Oil to keep things running smooth. We have a 2006 Ram 3500 MegaCab 4×4 with the 5.9 24V CRD Cummins
Cp4 is amazing pump. Use the best filter. Keep 1/4 or more fuel for the air not being sucked in. Make sure you have a good lubricity with additives. You’ve got to prime the pump vigorously after a filter change.
@@mikefortunato9800 Not sure on your model but on my Gladiator, push the button but don't push on the brake to start wait 30 seconds. Then keep doing it many times. I do it 10 times just to be sure.
I can confirm this does not work (flood made) on the new 2024 Ford 6.7. Push to start without brake does nothing and full throttle and brake before hitting the button starts the truck. (This was how it functioned before)
I had a CP4 fail in my A3 TDI. At least VW replaced everything under warranty... The fact that the main fuel supply first goes through the pump to act as lubricant is stupid. The CP3 keeps them separate and enjoys fewer failures because of this as well.
I can't say I understood every word of jargon, but this was a helluva discussion between obvious professionals who know their stuff. Thanks, Dave & co.!
Good Way to Think About It: The cp4 is a Little compressor motor where the pistons are driven by a camshaft. The cp3 is a little compressor motor driven by a crankshaft.
Thank you for all this info you provide us with. I'm stuck between getting a 3/4 or 1 ton ram or ford and you guys keep feeding me with knowledge on both platforms 🤔 doesn't make it any easier to pick but give me more to work with.
Perhaps we as vehicle owners should be worried about the quality and lubricity of our diesel. Being a Diesel engineer I do, I always add a good dose of "Fuel Doctor" at every fill. It is an Australian made product containing a cleaner, a lubricator and a algae killer superior to most other over rated products. I love my well built diesel engines.
@Grayson.84good for you. But everything you mentioned I do and beyond that! That cp4 is the glass jaw of the Powerstroke. No one says every cp4 fail, but when they do it’s very expensive! Why Gm and ram did away with them! And they are in other vehicles as well. So just because you have a few that has lasted doesn’t mean they aren’t problematic.
@Grayson.84 . Not true, GM just admitted in a lawsuit that the CP 4 was never designed for US diesel because it is much thinner and cavitates in normal use, causing failure. This isn't operator error it is bad engineering, not making sure a pump was designed for the purpose.
I worked at Stanadyne and helped develop and test their DCR pump. We knew from the start that it was going to be a huge improvement even over the CP3 pumps.
Just had a Case 110C tractor at work that melted 1 piston in the engine caueing blow by and no compression on cylinder 4 eventually leading too a crankcase of engine oil diluted with diesel wiping the engine out. The CP4 had been replaced recently, it was still shiny and clean looking without the engine paint on it like it comes factory, and the injectors appeared original and once i pulled rhe FCA it had metal on it. It appeared it probably had a running issue and it had an injection pump put on it due to low or insufficient rail pressure and that was the extent of the reapir. Im sure after a new pump it ran as it should until it sent metal into injector 4 and held it wide open which melted the piston and the tip of the injector finally causing a crank no start as all of the rail pressure was dumping out of injector 4
I put the DCR on my 6.7 stroker and I’m happy I did. I no longer have the worry in the back of my mind of not if but when it’s going to leave me stranded and penniless. My younger brother is looking at a 6.7 F450 and I told him to make that his first priority when he gets the truck. Plus the DCR flows at 43,000 PSI compared to 32,000 PSI my stock CP4 flowed. This translates into cleaner burn from better atomization and better mileage/ponies/twisters with the truck running quieter too.
What a fantastic video! Hey guys got a question. Could we get a toolbox tour occasionally from some of the employees who are comfortable with it? It would be cool to see what daves guys use daily. Hell even his son and the engine builders toolboxes would be sweet!
Amazed that both Ford and GM stick with the CP4 given it's prone to failures that are extremely expensive. At least Ram realized the problem and stopped using it and retrofitted all of the trucks they had installed the CP4 on with CP3's.
@@robo1210yeah, but the HP4s they switched to also fail and cause the same catastrophic damage. Not sure if it's the same level of failure rate, but I've done a couple LP5 fuel systems in the last year because of pump failure.
First, thanks for having this channel. I've been learning a lot. I'm looking at getting my first diesel truck. Wife and I really want to get an RV trailer, and I want something that can go up Parleys. I'm leaning towards a Ford F350. I will be going to LHM soon to test drive a few. Now to the real comment, your channel and others are scaring me away from getting a truck and giving up on the RV trailer. Not just eh CP4, but other problems I keep watching videos, EGR, DEF, etc.
Please make a lot for the EcoDiesel Jeeps please! We suffer from the CP4 too and Jeepers love upgrades!!!! You will sell out and have a wait list for back orders!
I have the S&S disaster prevention kit is on both of my ford 6.7 's such a great company out there, just knowing if the cp4 goes it'll only cost me a new s&s dcr conversion pump rather than a $10k plus engine repair if the cp4 grenades awsome company highly recommended
The CP4 grenading itself absolutely does happen in Europe, especially in the Eastern or less developed countries where fuel quality is more of an issue. It does happen to some extent in western European countries too but much much less - most likely because of better fuel.
Funny how Dave mentions about fuel lubricity. My friend has owned several diesel Ford trucks, his latest I believe is a 2020 and he's never had an issues with fuel pumps. The dealership called him and asked him what does he do to them. His reply, "I add oil to my fuel, fuel is to dry!" He does that to all his diesel engines and so do I. I could be wrong but I think he told me that it says to do that in the Ford Owner's Manual.
Love this channel guys, watch it all haha An idea, something I'd like to see, how you guys book your diary and like workshop control and how to allocate work in the workshop, how the boys clock time against allocated times, do you look at efficiency for instance? Id be interested in the way the workshop runs
Thanks Dave for this valuable vid. Fingers crossed that just the disaster prevention kit will be enough, but nice to know about the DCR in case I ever need to replace the CP4. Sincerely, new subscriber.
The look on Luke's face when he was waiting for Dave to give him his Arkfield back 😂 Olight is legit. Anywho, great video as always guys. If Ford doesn't replace my 2017 for the 3rd upper oil pan leak, I'll be doing this DCR for sure. I'll have to bring it up to you guys for that job when I'm on my yearly summer vacation in Springdale.
Great video and you clarified the mystery behind these pump failures. Since you mentioned the fuel discussion, do additives extend the life of these pumps? I understand the fuel is the fuel but just wondered if lubricity or sulfur products would help?
The Bosch CP4 pump has a failure rate of 7% in the USA, but only a 1% failure rate in European countries and similarly low in Canada where their diesel fuel is of a much higher quality and has better lubrisity than US diesel is. Yes! It also costs a lot more than in the US, but hey. I live on wet-coast of Canada, so I still add Lucas Fuel treatement at every refuelling and have been doing so since my '05 6.0l was new and which I still own and run daily! It and my 6.7s have never had a single fuel pump related issue... knock on the proverbial wood😊
I’m curious if we have more difficulty with the CP4 here in the states because they’re ran under load… Europe they’re just dumping them into passenger cars.
That DCR pump is an awesome idea Dave! 30,000+ psi? Holy moly! That pump needs to be BOMB-PROOF! Seems to me the 'DCR' pump is the PANACEA for fuel pump problems! CONGRATULATIONS!🎉🎉🎉🎉🎉🎉! FANTASTIC!🎉🎉🎉!
2017 6.7 316k miles Cp4 actually started failing. Caught it before it was too late. deleted with mild professional tune (100hp) Symptoms for you readers: Lower power, felt like i had little torque. Started when pulling about 6k truck would go into 6 speed, then if i needed to slightly accelerate for example from 65mph to 70 mph, the truck would occasionally go into reduced power mode, If i squeezed the throttle enough to downshift and spool the turbo-NO ISSUES, if i floored it from a stop (which i never do because my tools end up sprinkled everywhere)- no issues. i only had issues with gentle throttle low rpm converter locked. Then the problem accelerated to actually shutting the engine off during the above conditions. after a few months the problem would start to happen with the truck unloaded towing no weight. Same instances, low rpm no boost.. That's when i finally took it in to get fixed. In shop now, mechanic says there is NO contamination, the cp4 is just very week. He's converting to DCR now. He quoted $4k after everything. No retune needed. 3 days. Hope this was helpful Wish me luck
Three questions as a VW tech. What's the difference in a CP3 internal compared to the DCR/CP4 that makes them more robust than the CP4? And if a CP3 can be retrofitted to so many of these CP4 engine layouts with aftermarket kits, why isn't Bosch and other manufacturers reverting back to CP3 or at least an internal design similar to CP3 to improve their durability? Standadyne and other additives claim to add lubricity to diesel, would that help the CP4 last longer? Really loving these videos and thanks in advance for the answer, really appreciate it
Hi, CP4 ingeneer here :) I work at CP4 factory in Europe. The biggest difference is that the CP3 uses excentrical shaft with much bigger contact patch (triangular shaped "rotor" element on the shaft that is lifting the pistons. The only rotating part is the shaft itself contacting the triangular element with it's full area. In the CP4 howewer, the shaft rotates and is directly in contact with the small roller on the lifter that guys showed. This lifter spins 4 times faster than the engine (so about 4000 rpm at idle already) and the contact area is very small. CP4 is much much more efficient and capable of higher presssure and flow but it is a bit sensitive. It absolutely can't run dry for any second and also the fuel must be 100% clean and "oily" enough. Sadly, most of the failures occur in the USA due to fuel issues. We have most of the recalls sent back to our factory and we do a detailed analysis of every recalled pump and 9 times out of 10 it's the fuel. Usuallly silicone particles (sand, dust), water, other chemical elements... Secret info - there is a new version of this pump comming out soon (2025). It should resolve the bottom end issues.
It was made for the European market by bosh. The diesel in Europe is thicker and lubricants it better ,blame the epa and the bean counters at Ford look it up
Dave, Would you do a video on oil analysis results? I did my first sample, the lab gave great remarks but I am not sure what each test means. I’d be happy to send my results for use in a video.
The issue is cavitation/aeration, mostly from improper fuel filter change procedures. But also the design around the low pressure side on all three trucks. As stated this wasnt an issue in the European applications because of their superior filter change and prime procedures and the use of the electric lift pump. BMW's filter change procedure includes KOEO priming for 3 full minutes before you even start the engine making sure ALL the air is gone. Also the bean counters at the American companies decided that the locating pins for the plungers were not worth the extra cost so Bosch did not pin them for those applications. Funny BMW DID pay the extra cost and this never became a problem for them.
@DavesAutoCenterCenterville Could you make a habit of showing a chart of the major brands RAM, Ford, GM across the top with the models through the years down the side and explain at the beginning what models are susceptible to “X” and which aren’t, and WHY for each case? I have 2007 Cummins 5.9 on RAM 2500, which isn’t covered much except for #6 porosity.
