Breaking the Ore Economy in Terraria 

holy shit more accurate philosopher's stone in terraria

hmm how abt the ore dup glitch or odg

for short

campfire speaks for itself

Yeah and then there's totk with the "WAKO BOING GO"

With how much client and server parallel universes are mentioned, one of these times we're gonna run into Koopa the Quick.

@@LegoCowManZ next thing you know we're building up speed to go to those parallel universes and using spiders to become immune to boulders (cliche reference i know)

​@@LegoCowManZReDigit on his way to go make a Koopa the quick reference npc for terraria while not fixing this bug because why not? They let us keep hoiks, why not transmutation

terraria with half a press

@@JanMaykiel real

I relate to this on a personal level.

Cannot relate, I speedrun past HM ores to get hallowed bars

Based

⁠@@exploertm8738l get hard mode ores quicker than pre hard mode ores 😂

Me when I realise adamantite has better set bonuses for expert+ than titanium:

Only works after hardmode is on, otherwise the altar would vanish

@@thecountoftuscany3447 that only makes the challenge better, but also maybe a mod could fix that ?

@@dablob4491 If you're just setting up a challenge run, world editors could turn hardmode back off.

Old character? From which version??

​@@probalbroganpalma2 he means a maxed out character with that

Why the Bast statue, what about it is so exploitable

​@@ext8423I guess it is because of Bast Statue's block ID

@@ext8423 the video:

I definitely want to leave this running for several days, especially since i found a tick-perfect way of activating it (No macros, just more glitches on top of glitches!) So, 5,184,000 a day... For, say, a week...

So what happens with all the stone?

​@@EthyrielY You are one of the four horsemen of being stupidly excessive!

@zamzone0770 true. But that also means we can FINALLY break those damn DAs in the way of a mine cart track or a build we want to put down somewhere! And we don't even have to ruin the world either I'd we didn't want ore to begin with! 😊 😃

@@EthyrielY There is a way to make it so that you don't have to right click on the top right corner of the campfire to break the altar. You need to right click the same corner of the campfire once to get ore like normal, but then you can turn on smart cursor and can right click anywhere on the right half of the screen. This works to create new ore as long as you don't flip the switch, which breaks the altar permanently if you flip the switch at least twice in rapid succession.

I didn't know that well, because it was so hard trying to get onto the corruption without dying (I was in master mode) so when I finally get to the demon altars I destroyed every single one that I saw and instantly use the magic mirror to go home

wraiths just spawn all the time. i don't know why specifically doing something corruption related would spawn a surface enemy.

@@supremechaosbeing2696 they do

The first thing I thought was if you could use this for a biome key farm

@@JadeMTF or maybe money farm

I got very scared when I smased like 9 or 10 in 3DS version

i cant believe that so many people actually didnt notice this

I broke a bunch of alters recently and when 5 were coming at me I thought it was just a coincidence because i went underground

That's an incredibly apt analogy. I wonder if Terraria will ever have Slinkies... And if you could send them down stairs.

@@EthyrielY knowing red he'd add slinkies... And make them in to a boulder or trap of some kind

I think that when your pickaxe gets stronger than explosives, the explosives should scale with your pickaxe.

or maybe some hardmode pre-mech/plantera explosives.

@@watermelongaming3698 I would not mind stronger explosives. Ethy want to see big boom.

​@@EthyrielYBRING BACK THE YOLY HAND GRENADE!!!

There are two things that might prevent total transmutation: how the game selects blocks and the smallest number of blocks that it will transmute. I'm not 100% sure if the first one will actually prevent it, but if the game randomly and independently selects blocks to transmute each time, then you will start running into a problem of the game spawning ore on top of ore, which will mean that over time you're actually getting (1/n)*(1-p) bits of ore in your world, with n being the number of altars destroyed and p being the proportion of your world that is currently ore. It feels like that will prevent the world from having everything that can be turned into ore turn into ore, however math is weird so I don't know. However the other part might be a problem: depending on how the game decides the amount of ore to spawn, there could be a point where the amount of ore the game decides to spawn is rounded down to 0, meaning that no more ore will spawn. Or it could round up somewhere, causing the first thing to not actually be a problem because it actually breaks from the harmonic series at some point and stays above it.

@@bastian_5975In your scenario you can approximate it with the following differential equation where x is the amount of ore spawned, a is the amount of ore spawned after the first altar broken, k is the total amount of spawning spaces in the world, and the initial condition x(1) = 0: dx/dt = a/x * (k - x)/k Wolfram Alpha kindly gives us the solution x(t) = k (W(-e^((a - a t)/k^2 - 1)) + 1), where W is the product log or Lambert W function. There is no solution for t where x(t) = k, moreover, the limit of x(t) as t->inf is k. Therefore you can get arbitrarily close to filling up your world but never fill up your world with hardmode ore, as opposed to if you generated the maximum amount of ore every time, you would still finish (it would just be exponential in k/a). However, do note that the ODE is just an approximation, if you keep getting lucky then you could still fill up the world.

Qual nível de cálculo eu preciso para alcançar essas deduções? Hahahahah, é sério, para mim vocês são gênios

@@bastian_5975for fun, I did the math on if ore value gets overwritten, what is the solution (ignoring rounding issues). Can’t really do it as a sum, because subsequent partial sums require previous values of subsums, so the best I could hope for was a recursion sequence. Start with s(1) = p, where p is a value between 0 and 1 referring to how much of the world gets covered by ore with the first altar. Then to the previous sum of n-1 iterations, you add p/n times the uncovered portion of the world which is (1-s(n-1)). This leaves the nonlinear recursion relation s(n) = (1-p/n)s(n-1) + p/n. At this point I was ready to call it quits because even approaching the conversion of that sequence was far above my pay grade. But for shits n giggles I plugged it into Wolfram Alpha. Believe it or not, WolframAlpha pooped out an analytical solution in terms of the Gamma function. I cannot begin to explain to you why it’s the answer, but here it is in terms of factorials. s(n) = 1 - (n-p)!/(n!(-p)!) This converges to 1! So the whole world will get covered in ore eventually. Why? Tl;dr: (-p)! is a positive constant close to 1 and smaller factorial over bigger factorial means that fraction will converge to 0. Converge to 0: a limit to infinity you can use the stirling approximation to get that fraction to (n-p)^(n-p)/n^n * sqrt(1-p/n) * 1/((-p)!e^p). That first factor is less than n^(n-p)/n^n = 1/n^p which converges to 0. The sqrt converges to 1 and the third factor is a constant.

dude

Someone already filled a world with hardmode ores & they only broke 1,000,000 altars. The video where they did it was even mentioned in this video. That means terraria definitely rounds the number of ore veins up. It also wouldn't make sense to spawn a smaller ore vein, because it would look weird & confuse the player, normally such high precision would never be required, it would probably be harder to code, & if it worked like that, it wouldn't have been possible to fill a world with hardmode ores by only breaking 1,000,000 altars. Assuming each altar spawns 1 vein of 50 ores anywhere in the world, filling the world with hardmode ores would only require breaking 403,200 altars.

@@Mo_Mauve I know, I was simply doing the math under the assumption that computers could and practically DID compute with infinite decimal precision. I figured it was quite likely that they rounded up, and the 50 ore per vein was entirely an assumption for the sake of having a number to calculate with, not a precise count.

Math porn

Spot on- I believe it's technically possible to go _faster_ than the game's tickrate with wire, but due to client-server weirdness of MCGO it doesn't work with wire. (If it did I could hypothetically make a 4000Hz Demon Altar spawner.) But, I _did_ find a glitch that allows for tick-perfect altar spawning, though this video was already nine minutes long at the point I discovered that, so it's getting added to a future project.

@EthyrielY what auto clicker did you use

@@BananaShack I use Logitech G-hub, though an Autohotkey script would work just as well. There's a macroless method to do it tick-perfectly (ergo, faster than autoclicker) that will be featured in two videos or so. It involves a _very_ strange combination of bugs.

@@EthyrielY Hol up, you can bypass the tick rate... Using wire??

@@leakingamps2050 No, wire is also limited by the tick rate. I think.

This is an extremely random and specific reference Brush your teeth bitch

"oh no! My QPU's are misaligned!"

I actually had no idea that they removed that. Because I was a masochist and purified my words, I didn't break demon altars to save myself some work. ...this meant I had to fish for all of my hardmode ores. So, this is the opposite, because if you do this enough you run out of sotne.

@@joeswanson1766 the one block is placed randomly in the world and you don't know where it is so its much more of a hassle to clean up

Do demon altars not spread evil anymore?

Happy to! There's going to be a few more videos on it since it's such a versatile glitch. Funny bit of trivia: I discovered MCGO, wasn't recording, had no idea what I did and lost it for about four months, and then re-discovered it. It seems simple in retrospect, just "Campfire Glitch in Multiplayer", but at the time it just didn't occur to me to test that heh

Very useful! For reference, with the most recent setups (and no macros), 5,184,000 altars can be broken per-day.

@EthyrielY it took me roughly a minute total to scroll down to 12000 in the Excel sheet, so I'm not gonna go further, but plotting the points I've mentioned on a graph might give something close to the same result. I am not proficient enough in Excel to do that, though, and I don't know if it would work well to make a quick program in python to calculate it, becuase floating point stuff probably isn't presice enough to go that far. edit: Ok, writing the program will probably take less time than it took to write this message, so I'll just do it. Even if the result probably isn't great. edit2: I'm back with some numbers produced by the code I wrote. 1:1 4:2.083333 11:3.0198773448773446 31:3.9949871309203906 83:5.002068272680166 227:5.999961 616:6.9996507 1674:7.888999200430668 4550:8.9999882827 12367:9.9999621 33617:10.99998796 91380:12.000003051 248397:13.00000122948 675214:13.99999988104 1835421:14.999999833433106 4989191:16.00000009545252 5184000:16.03830327836495 (I left out some of the decimals on most of the middle ones because I'm writing this on a phone, but the code is on my computer. And writing the decimals I did write took longer than it took to write the code) edit3: I tried 100 days, my computer and/or python is too slow. I did try cutting out unnecessary parts, but it didn't really make a difference, and I wanna get back to my Calamity playthrough. At somewhere around 50-60 days, it hits 20 times the first alter. Interesting thing happened in that playhrough. I usually never actually break any alters, but when I killed wof, some tier 1 were distributed in the world (both cobalt and palladium. FTW seed.). I decided to break an alter a bit later on, but no new ores were distibutef in the world. My current theory is that the thing in the middle of Calamity's astral infection broke an alter, but I don't know why the second alter didn't produce any ores. Possibly just mods not working properly. edit4: I figured out the hm ore thing. And I wrote a quick program, that prints all of the items a door will produce (in [i:(number)] form) in lines of 50 items, that I can then copy paste to the chat in a Terraria world to see what that door will produce. I haven't quite figured out how to predict the items without transmuting the input door a few times first. it seems to jump 64 whenever it goes from door to item or opposite, but jump 36 in every other situation. I have used this method to look around for calamity items. I even got an undocumented unobtainable item (the starting bag (not to be confused with the starter bag)), and an item that crashes tmodloader when whatever contains it is saved. I have found, but not reached the ids of the 3 other unobtainable Calamity items (I don't have all of the doors, yet). I still haven't found cosmic plushie. meteor door gets that super op pickaxe. I haven't tried that pick (or any of the other stuff) out cause I haven't obtained it legitemately yet. Cryogen master death mode with a yoyo and fast gun is a really enjoyable fight!

Sets of altars, not individual altars.

@@Mo_Mauve What do you mean? And in which edit are you saying I made a mistake?

@@Illogical. The first set of altars generate as many ores as the first set of altars, the first 4 sets of altars generate about twice as many ores as the first set of altars, etc.

Yes

Definitely

Thanks a bunch- Glad to hear you liked it^^!

@@EthyrielY I've been watching a bunch of your videos and enjoying them, they're interesting

Long time no see! That's a name I'd recognize anywhere. Ahhh, the days of rail-sprinter mechs. (Man do I miss RC sometimes...) Hope you've been well in these intervening years- The internet really can be a remarkably small place sometimes!

@@EthyrielY yeah, I find myself missing RC as well at times. They're developing RC 2, but I don't have super high hopes given where the first one went. I've been well, but for the time being video games have taken a bit of a side role. Although I did recently do my first Terraria Master Mode playthrough with a friend, that was a lot of fun. I kinda want to make a video with the stream footage, but I've been putting it off because it's a LOT of footage.

It's weirdly hypnotic to look at.

Thanks for reminding me about Shimmer! It works as invulnerability against everything _but_ bosses, since the devs figured people would use it to cheese otherwise. I'm going to need to look into enemy targeting- I haven't actually looked into that yet! I That sounds interesting, and like it might have some applications for potential boss cheese. Cheers!

So I have a little Update on the mobs moving weird thing, it seems to only work on multiplayer, probably bc the server thinks the player is moving until he is litteraly off screen. However, be aware that the server is still smart enough to only see possible movement, so if you are running into a wall, the server knows and the enemies will target your position on the wall. The best friend to test this on is a ghost or bosses like eye of cthulu. And another little thing, the bone Helmet and probably also Sporsack work in the setup as well.

@@menegy2982 I wonder if it's possible to trap the parallel universe version of you in a box & then walk away so that you don't have to worry about enemies attacking you.

@@Mo_Mauve unfortunatly the parallel self disappears after a second and when it goes offscreen so no luck there. Also walking away would remove the parallel self anyway, bc the setup is required.

@@menegy2982 A literal second?

Will be the same result as if you come to a new world and destroy the altars by pwnhammer or better hammer

@@kirsertu no, doing that makes you take damage I'm pretty sure

Wdym

@@julienbronsch5039 each time you destroy an altar. Alongside new ores being spread, random evil blocks are also placed in the world. So when you break this many altars. If you don't purify your world it'll be 100% corrupt in probably a few hours.

​@@Quidneythis was removed a long time ago

@@william_.575 Looked it up, it says "removed 1.4.4, september 2022." My comment is from summer of 2023. I think after being in the game since 1.1 (2011), it must have not caught my attention while reading the patch notes.

The shadow orbs is the topic of a future video, alongside Queen Bee spawns. (It also works with Plantera.) Had no idea about the crates! It works with alot of furniture for duping, as far as I know, but be wary because it can also cause spectacular crashes on many others too.

"Wait wait wait, WAIT WAIT WAIT WAIT"

watch for rolling rocks my beloved Absolutely inspired some of my glitch hunting.

There's a new method that is several-hundred times faster than the method used in this video, which can saturate ~99.9% of the world with ore in less than 10- minutes, via being able to use wire (and therefore arbitrarily fast timers for activation) It really is just a numbers game!

From what I understand the devs confirmed that all multiplayer bugs will stay since fixing them would require rebuilding multiplayer from scratch.

I reported it well over a year ago and they said it was hard to fix. And that was before finding some of the more broken stuff...

Also I do want to note after you get to the shell phone, anything after is non-existent and if you try to grab it it will disappear. Although I didn't not go very far after.

If switch the light on instead of off when the door is open you can regress through the list to go back to an item if you wish

@@Nesrak there's a speadsheet on how to get every item somewhere, I think it might be in icysnowman's description on their video

Here's a link to the spreadsheet with what door you need to get a given item: docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1zLsNgfk6ZM8ZgbE_7mnKg5TimjjisQwM3j29g7ga2uE/edit?usp=sharing (You can use CGO to use a wooden door for everything but that method is a bit more complex, and is getting its own video. Stay tuned for that!)

You can totally transmute the door into something else- i.e. you can turn it into any other door in the game. Alternatively... You can turn any other door _into a jungle temple door._ (And the only way to get rid of temple doors is with temple keys...) Depending upon how I get through my list of topics, I may make a video on that in the future. And, in reply to the last thing: Bubble blocks are technically blocks so, aside from looking glitchy visually, they don't do anything else interesting.

@@EthyrielY :) Thanks. Also dang, I didn't know that about bubble blocks.

thanks for the notification, I had no idea that my world has been blessed with titanium mythril and cobalt

Well, they left hoiks in the game intentionally, so I'd say we have a decent chance of keeping the power of statue-based alchemy.

BRO IS A BOYKISSER AND A RIVULET (aka. ruffus or smthg like that), IS PERFECT

hardmode ore does not spawn before hardmode even with this set-up

Hrmmm... First thing that comes to mind is to double-check to ensure you're in multiplayer^^ If that doesn't fix it I've got a few more things to try.

@@EthyrielY Oh i didnt know you had to be in multiplayer, although that makes sense, thanks!

it's still a work in progress docs.google.com/document/u/0/d/1-iQtY-I_fE6eOxAd5bs9QAx6fEqvGyh87jachsDItOk/mobilebasic

Coming later this week in video form! The doc is getting super-ceded purely because it was out of date before I got even remotely close to finishing it. (I want to make sure I get explanations for current setups out before things get patched.)

@@EthyrielY looking forward to it! I always enjoy the why more than the how with glitches like these, like that hour and a half long introduction to portal's FCPS-abuse strats was awesome, but I still haven't the foggiest how you would use it lmao

Which steps

Nope. 1.4.4 removed corruption spread through altars

It's probably going to be released two videos from now. The next video will be another video on the infinite speed glitch then I'm going to polish what I have of the Guide and release it in its current form. I want to make sure I get _something_ out there before 1.4.5 breaks anything. Thanks for checking in about it^^! It means alot heh

Huh, interesting- You can try setting up the campfire in Singleplayer, and then joining multiplayer with the Campfire already setup. It takes an extra step, but it should avoid the issue you're having.

I've since found an altar-breaking method that gets really damn close to the theoretical limit, and can actually get quite close to a "100%-filled-with-ore" world in ~20 minutes, while AFK. ...Doing the math to reverse-engineer how many altars are actually being broken would be interesting.