British grammar has GOTTEN more American 

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"American publications re-acquire a taste for 'gotten'." ~ "American publications re-acquire a taste forgotten." I loved this little double entendre. Don't know if it was truly intended or not but it was musical. :)

I'm from California. I feel a distinct difference between "I just ate" versus "I ate already" versus "I've already eaten" where each seems to indicate a greater range of time in the past. "I just ate" refers to the last few minutes, no more than half an hour or so. "I ate already" is like saying "I'm not hungry, because I ate something within the last couple of hours." And "I've already eaten, " which I don't hear very often, carries a connotation of "no thank you, I ate at some point earlier today and don't require anymore to eat at this time." At least for me. I could even go a step further: "I, like, just ate," (which I think sounds very California) to me implies not only having eaten within the last few minutes, but also having eaten just before or on the way to meeting someone (who then offers you food).

I'm Brazilian. During the pandemic, the media talked about how concerned many Portuguese parents were because their kids were talking like Brazilians due to the Brazilian channels on YT they were being exposed to while away from school.

The phrase 'reacquired a taste for gotten' was sublime.

I'll show this to my British friend next time he complains I shouldn't use "gotten" because it sounds American...

43 years old, born and raised in England and I've just searched for the world 'gotten' in my email history and there it was, lots and lots of examples of it. To be honest I had literally no idea that it was an Americanism.

I'm American and studied abroad in London for a term. I remember one of my professors marking some of my grammar wrong on papers and I had to keep telling her that it was considered correct in American English. It never affected my scores dramatically so I didn't stress about it but was confused the first few times she did it. Also had an English exchange student while in high school and she had the problem of our teachers marking her wrong for spelling certain words with an extra u, like colour. She had to do the same thing and explain it's just a variation and correct in her country. Even here on RU-vid in this very comment it's telling me "colour" is spelled wrong.

I am an American living in the US and have noticed a similar problem. I love to read and mostly use a Kindle. I have a particular fondness for English writers and novels. Often their words are re-spelled into the US form. Or the word will be changed entirely to a more US acceptable one. For example: favourite to favorite or rubbish bin to trash can. I find that part of the charm of reading books from English authors is the difference in words and spelling. I realize that in printed books this practice has gone on for some time, but I feel that electronic reading devices should reflect the language and spelling that the author originally wrote.

I'm Australian. In 1975 my teacher chastised me for using "gotten" in my essays. Then she went on to explain how ambiguous the word "got" was and requested that I never use it again, but instead substitute more descriptive and unambiguous words.

"ill-gotten gains" the form still exists in everyday British usage.

As an American, "have just seen" is more formal than "just saw", but we use both

as much as chaotic english is, "gotten" is a good addition to the language that enriches it

I'm a Canadian. A bit closer to American than British I've got $2000 is about my net worth. I've gotten $2000 is about the revenue of a recent transaction. "I've done it" is more final and important than "I did it" and I feel like this holds in general.

One example that exists in America is the adoption of “no worries”. I’m 37 and I in fact say it all the time, but I distinctly remember as a child that “no worries” was something only Australians and New Zealanders said on TV and in movies. I think if you told me we were going to adopt a phrase like “no worries” around the time The Rescuers Down Under came out, I would have laughed.

4:47 - Interesting point about the ambiguity of "has got". I was thinking about this the other day when I saw an ad for "Britain's got talent". It quite clearly means "Britain has talent" but the use of the present perfect (to have + participle) suggests an action started in the past.

I'd love to know what you think about Australian english. You often compare and contrast features of British and American english, and Australia has been heavily influenced by both countries. It seems that we've picked a little from column A and a little from column B, and invented a few of our own features. They say a fish can't taste it's own water, so I'm always curious when others comment on our way of speaking. It'd be great to hear your expert opinion if you ever have the time/inspiration to make a video about it.

Since the US and UK have such a strong relationship, and all languages naturally evolve continuously, it’s only natural that our linguistics are converging based on our significant interactions.

5:39 Idk about that. I’m born and raised in NJ, and I would say “i got an email from a friend” to mean “i received an email from a friend.” To me, “gotten” usually means “has,” or “has become,” as well as “received,” but “got” can also mean received in certain applications where “gotten” just doesn’t sound right. Idk why, but “got” is both present tense for “have” and past tense for “received.”

'Got/ gotten' has perhaps also been influenced by its 'forgot/forgotten' compound-verb cousin, although I note that 'forgot' as past participle also exists in some religious songs from the 18th and 19th centuries.

Hey professor! Same thing happening between European Portuguese and Brazilian Portuguese, mainly because of internet (streaming services, youtube, tiktok etc). Portuguese parents "worry" their kids are catching BR accent.

My parents, both French, met in Canada. As a child, in France, I remember how strange it felt to realise that some of the words I used every day were in fact not « French from France », and definitely not understood by the other kids in the village - my parents had simply taken them home from Quebec after all the years they’d lived there. If you hear it every day in a familiar context, a phrase is just normal to you, it’s yours.

my favourite example is the spread of the mandative subjunctive present across the atlantic, e.g. “she asked that he close the door”. an entire mood on the brink of death was miraculously revived in america and is is now gaining prominence in the uk again.

I was surprised you didn't mention "ill gotten gains", which has been an idiomatic exception to the rule in the U.K.. Love your work and subtle humour. You deserve a million subs!

As an American who is perhaps slightly younger than you, even I have noticed the speech patterns of younger Brits changing, but it's always fascinating to hear about it with more rigor than i generally apply. Your videos are both entertaining and informative - thanks!

As a non-native speaker of English this video makes me wonder about the origins of my English grammar. In school we were taught British English, but as I've spent so much time online, by now much of it is likely to be American English 🤔

It's especially interesting for me to think about how I speak, where different words I use come from, since I've grown up in the internet age in multiple English-speaking countries with different accents and grammar (Australia, Wales - knowing a lot of English people, the United Arab Emirates, with people speaking English from a vast array of different places, and having parents from New Zealand), and also growing up with a lot of influence from the internet with American words, spelling, grammar. A lot of the time I subconsciously switch between different ways of saying things, with different words, different pronunciations, different grammar. It's never just like one place in particular, it's always a combination.

Hello, I’m American, and the example you gave “I’ve just got this email from a friend” doesn’t sound that bad to my American ears. What does, however, sound wrong to my American ears, is using “got” instead of “gotten” or “been” in a passive verb: “I’ve got killed in Minecraft many times” “I’ve got promoted” “I’ve got hit”

I am an American translator who has been living in Italy for 35 years; when I first got here I came to understand that British English was preferred, and I did my best to adjust - this for someone who had never heard the word "lorry." Well, I adjusted, and in recent years I have begun to notice the phenomena you discuss here. It feels like all my work was for naught.

For me personally "I've just eaten breakfast" means I ate breakfast recently, meanwhile "I just ate breakfast" means I ate only breakfast and nothing else.

Some grammatical differences that always fascinate me are verbs to denote possession. The British preference is easily seen in "I've got a lov-ely bunch of coconuts" (Well, that dates me, doesn't it?). If Americans wanted to say the same thing , it would be "I have a lovely bunch of coconuts". And I've noticed this is a consistent difference in EFL and ESL textbooks written in the UK and America. I wonder will Brits adopt this from the internet as well. Another one is "I've been stood/sat here for hours." Americans typically use the present perfect continuous: "I've been standing/sitting here for hours." Let's see if the American usages catch on in the UK and Ireland.

Bravo Dr Lindsey! An excellent video. I seem to remember an anecdote somewhere which illustrated the past perfect/simple past nuance very well. An American was enjoying a late lie-in one morning in bed with his British wife when they both heard a noise downstairs and footsteps. A few moments later their son appeared, with the morning newspaper. They both spoke simultaneously: ‘Ah, you brought the newspaper’ said the American, thinking back to the moment when they heard the noise and footsteps. ‘Ah, you’ve brought the newspaper’ said the wife, as the son handed it to her.

54 year-old Englishman here, born, raised, and still living in Hertfordshire. I'm very fond of gotten, though it was certainly never part of my language when I was younger. As best I recall it was dismissed as either archaic or American, and not - or no longer - a feature of British English. But some time in, I think, my thirties I realised (or read) that even us British English speakers instinctively understand and use the difference between "forgot" and "forgotten", and the distinction between got and gotten is EXACTLY THE SAME. Made sense to me and I've used it ever since.

I found this fascinating. As an American I had no idea "gotten" was an Americanism, having of course grown up with it. Though given the relative population sizes I would suppose there is now more influence of American English on British English than vice versa, there are some instances of British English influencing American. I was a psychology professor at a small university in Nebraska until retiring two years ago, and I often had my students take a personality test devised in England by British psychologist Hans Eysenck. One of the questions on it was "As a child, were you ever cheeky to your parents?". I always had to explain what "cheeky" meant to my students in Nebraska. But for at least a decade I have heard some American newscasters on the network MSNBC use the word "cheeky" without seeming to realize that they have adopted a Britishism that many Americans wouldn't be familar with. For an example that might be a bit more related to grammar, within the last year I have heard a couple of Americans say someone was "in hospital" instead of "in the hospital", which has been the normal American way to say someone is a hospitalized patient. It's too soon to tell if that's really going to catch on over hear, but "in hospital" still sounds weird to me as a 71 year old American. (Of course, "graduated college", which all younger Americans now seem to use. still sounds wrong to me. when I always say "graduated from college", but I really don't know which of those forms is more used in the UK.)

Etymology has always fascinated me, so it's genuinely exciting to actually see our language evolve right before our eyes!

American Spanish had the same shift compared to European Spanish, we frequently use past tense for both cases (or "imperfecto" as we call it).

As an American (Minnesota) I see and use “gotten” to indicate that the status of something has changed (“it’s gotten a lot hotter outside”) and “got” as an indication of purchase or ownership (“I got this book online”)

"Moving house" LOL. Makes moving sound much more arduous, since you are moving the whole house.

One of the oldest widely-recognized YT memes is "I can't believe you've done this". As someone who generally dislikes slapstick humour and people getting hurt, I wondered why I and so many others found the clip hilarious. I think it's the Perfect form phrasing - it sounds unusual. The action was unpleasant, but immaterial, while such a phrase would be used following one of enormity, the underlying grammatical implication being that the present is now in a significantly different state due to that action. However, if I understand correctly, this is actually normal use in Australia, where these forms are used differently from both the UK and US. Edit: turns out the chap in question actually isn't Australian, but British.

I was interested to see your reference to "gotten" in Shakespeare, which I didn't know. It's a Scots usage, certainly in the north-east where I grew up, and as a child I remember my Mum being surprised to hear Americans saying "gotten" which she thought of as specifically Scots. If I'd answered your poll, I would have preferred "got" if speaking English, but "gotten" if speaking Scots. I also remember a story my Mum was told by a teacher friend (in the days when Scots was disapproved of at school). A pupil had read something she'd written and the teacher asked the class what was wrong in it. Another pupil answered, "Please Miss, she's putten "putten" where she should have putten "put".

That last point you made about Cornflakes was exactly what I experienced growing up in Ireland. I thought they were Irish because we have so many farms around where I lived, and many wheat fields, so I was surprised to learn their actual origin. It is an excellent point in supporting that language simply without the need for anyone to consciously make modifications. Fascinating.

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To my American ear, the simple past verbs imply a context-sensitive chronology, while the past perfect forms do not imply a chronological sequence. If one says "Bob ate lunch and Joe cleared the table", that would impyl that the actions happened in the order given, at a time which would typically have been established by other context. If I receive a message that says "You got three packages" and "you got two packages", I would perceive that I had received a total of five packages. By contrast "You have received three packages" followed by "You have received two packages", I would wonder whether something which had been thought to be a package for me, wasn't, and so the total number of packages I had received might be only two. A distinction not yet mentioned is that both "got" and "gotten" forms can act as auxilliary verbs with infinitives, but the constructs mean different things. "I have gotten to know him better" would have a very different meaning from "I have got to know him better". Anyone arguing the words mean the same thing has got to be kidding.

Speaking of the American internet and the use of "got" vs. "gotten", I think it's interesting that the AOL message was "You've got mail", which is either the British ambiguous form or the American non-present-relevant form, rather than the American present-relevant "You've gotten mail". I think that "You've gotten mail" would've been a better fit, as the message normally indicated that the user had received mail in the time since they last used the application. Thanks for the video!

"British people are saying more American things" is honestly hilarious, given that what seems like 80% of the differences between American English and British English boil down to "the Brits came up with it, stopped saying it, then made fun of the Americans for supposedly coming up with it"

I like these videos because the feeling I get from these, is that there isn't necessarily a right or wrong to one's grammar, or the changing of it. It just is, and as long as people can be understood and communicate with each other, language is doing its job.

In my (Southern United States) grammar, I more closely associate "have" with the *historic* past, in a complete inversion of the British standard. For example, "I have noticed that before" feels like I'm asserting I noticed something months or years ago, while "I noticed that before" feels like I noticed something an hour ago. I suppose I see it as more or less equivalent with the past perfect/pluperfect tense ("I had noticed that before.") In fact, I seem to remember being taught this use of "have" in school, and I might've gotten (see what I did there?) some points taken off of a paper or two for using "have" too often to refer to present-relevant events.

It is part of the fabric of life, it is how languages evolve overtime.

This topic reminded me of something I noticed with my toddler nephews - before going to school they had a noticeable American twang in their accent (they both born and grew up in UK), we suspected form watching youtube and american cartoons. This was also during covid so very little interaction outside of the tv screen. Now they are both in primary school they are losing much of the American twang and picking more Welsh accent aspects (they are in Wales - they haven't just picked up a different random accent!). Just wondering is this something widespread, even researched - or is it just they were spending too much time watching Paw Patrol!

Funnily enough, the same conflict between "present-relevant" and "historic" past forms happens in Spanish as well. In countries like Argentina, they tend to overuse the "historic" form; e.g. " *Comí* dos veces hoy" ("I _ate_ twice today"; and today isn't finished yet, where the form " *He comido* would have been more suitable.) Quite the contrary occurs in Spain, where they tend to exploit the "present-relevant" form for events long past in time; e.g. "Mi difunto padre *ha estado* aquí muchas veces" ("My late father _has been_ here many times"; where the old man is sadly no longer with us, rather obviously 😄.) Thank you Dr Lindsey. Your videos are solid gold for us foreign English learners. 👍👍

I feel I was old enough to remember when I realised that "kårnfleks" was not a Norwegian word and and actually is spelled "corn flakes". It doesn't make any sense in Norwegian, so the only reason I thought it was a normal Norwegian word is because we pronounced it with entirely Norwegian sounds. A literal and workable translation of "corn flakes" (using corn to mean a kind of grain) would be "kornflak"; or if you would want to translate "corn" in the meaning maize; it would be "maisflak" (which would not surprise me if it has been the name of some cheap store brand corn flakes at some time)

The way I hear it, "I ate" and "I've eaten" are both ambiguous, and it's the word "just" that does the heavy lifting.

I'm American, but I prefer to use present perfect rather than simple past because it's more descriptive and precise.

I'm Scottish and gotten has always been used where I live, and I was well into my forties before I discovered that people down south don't use it (this has happened with a few other things and words too, such as Hallowe'en, pled guilty etc.).

You're my favorite linguist and this is why. Unlike many, you don't dictate what should be but record and analyze what is. I just had a debate on a different channel where the host said most people mispronounce certain words. I argued no, if most people "mispronounce" them then the pronunciation has shifted. She then argued look at the spelling, to which I replied, "Spelling in English is a casual suggestion." Oodles of words have shifted from their spelling over time. You accept those and only resist this because it's actively happening and you're aware of it.

What a fascinating insight! As a non-native English speaker living in US my ear is trained to spot grammar inconsistencies because I learned the language “the correct British way” back in my country. I hardly ever question the use of present relevant past here in US, in fact, sometimes I would almost convince myself that my own recollection of the correct/formal grammar might be outdated, wrong..

The past tense point you made is interesting because I can almost see it going both ways. I think as an American I also generally use “have past participle” to mean relevant to the present, but actually if I put emphasis on the have part I think it could do the opposite. E.g., “Did you subscribe?” “I *have* subscribed but I no longer do.” A lot of these things about my own language never were clear to me until I studied Spanish or French, and then I started thinking about them differently. I do think also that American English tends to use “was …” as an imperfect like Spanish uses “hablaba, decía, hacía” etc. but I feel like there are some circumstances where we use “was …” in a way that other languages might use the preterite. I wonder if this is so in British English as well.

On your last point about Corn Flakes, interestingly the cockerel logo is Welsh, because the Welsh word for cockerel, "ceiliog" is similar to Kellogg's name.

Regarding your comment about young Brits adopting American pronunciations/American phrases, I’m reminded of a comment I got when I was in the car with someone while recently on vacation in the UK (I’m American). He commented to me that his kids were constantly using American pronunciations for words like “yogurt” (which I always imagine with an “oh” vowel sound rather than the “ah” vowel sound). He also talked about his kids using words like “dump” rather than “tip” to talk about where one takes their trash. (Or rubbish-the fact that Americans in Hawaii say rubbish rather than trash or garbage is a story for another comment…)

Your videos are so consistently good , I especially like that you have a lot of example clips of speakers

This channel is my new favorite niche pastime. Love it from the USA!

This got me thinking (no pun intended lol) about how in Spanish, you see a similar thing. In Spain and Equatorial Guinea, there's a heavy "preference" towards the past participle. Whereas in American countries, there's a preference towards the preterite. It's pretty much the same idea, and if you speak Spanish from one place or the other (or if like me you learned in one place), you realize that even though these tenses exist in all variants of Spanish, they express *almost* different things in different places, and again, very similarly to your examples here. Like if someones said "I have eaten" (he comido) in Spain, they probably mean they JUST ate just now, whereas in most American dialects, that would be expressed with "I ate" (comí) or "I just ate" (ya comí). Saying "I have eaten" when you just did it could sound really weird to a speaker of an American dialect of Spanish, but saying "I haven't eaten" (no he comido) sounds fine for some reason.

I'm from Poland and at school we learn British English. I feel really annoyed by it because I can get a worse grade just because of using simple past instead of present perfect. I don't get it. It should be more relevant whether you use one form in your entire text rather than which you choose.

Your content never fails to fascinate me. Thank you for this and all your posts. ❤

Great video, the last few minutes were particularly insightful.

The only youtube channel where everyone spell checks their comments before posting! Haha Cheers

As a non-native speaker who is exposed to both British and American English, I pick and choose what helps me be more precise, so I use "this video has gotten 1 million views" (like the Americans) and the present perfect tense for present-relevant sentences (like the British).

Great and educative video. Thanks for pointing these out

All of your videos are so so so interesting

Frankly, growing up in Sixties Britain, my parents told me never to say "got" at all and use "have/had" instead.

As an Aussie who grew up in the 60s, I recall when I was about 10 years old getting into trouble at school for using the word gotten in a composition (written essay). My teacher told me that it was incorrect, American slang. Although I have never used it since in my writing (even informally), I do use it in every day speech with friends and family.

You create great content! Thank you so much.

You have just gotten a new subscriber. This is honestly so fascinating.

I think one tiny element encouraging the spread of "followed" instead of "have followed" is that it takes extra work for programmers to handle the non plural "1 has followed" and so sometimes they use the simpler grammar if it still makes sense.

Now that I'm thinking of it, the got/gotten thing interesting. Got and gotten are both used in American English obviously, but whether one or the other is used is highly dependent on the context. For example, I would say something like "I've gotten really used to getting up early", but I wouldn't say "I just gotten an email".

I just found out about your channel and I can't get enough of it. Your videos are fascinating and you've got a beautiful, soothing voice.

This is exactly the kind of video where I would like additional information about Canadian English. I'm a native English speaker and I honestly can't think of which one I use. "Gotten" doesn't sound wrong but I can't recall ever using it. Adding the knowledge and data from the literal in-between language could help explain how or why this trend is working. Any other Canadians have a distinct preference for "got" versus "gotten"?

It struck me how you said "Santa" instead of "Father Christmas" at the end.

This phenomena is also observed in Portugal and Spain, where youngsters are adopting verbal forms more commonly used by Brazilians and Latino Americans, respectively.

Very interesting and thought provoking video!

Another possible example of advertising clichés affecting language could be how "terrific" changed from "terribly big" to "amazing" rather recently - I noticed a lot of advertisements referred to "teriffic sales" etc. which may have muddled its meaning.

I really appreciate how you completely avoid using value judgements in your videos. You just present information as it is, and do so very clearly. As an American English speaker, I find myself using have got and gotten almost completely interchangeably, and had never even thought about the difference before, so this prompted me to really analyze what I'm actually saying when I speak.

As a Canadian (51 y.o ) gotten is definitely used, and is by far the most common in daily speech.

Love your videos. They're so informative! I've just had this expanded so well to me :)

Would love to see a video of British expressions that have affected American language (i.e. the reverse of what is discussed here).

I grew up in rural Scotland and have used the word since I was young. I remember being challenged on it being an Americanism when I went to a CofE school when I moved to England. I believe its a word that is informal British English that fell out of usage in the 1800s. Although it's usage is case based. I generally use a hybrid accent because my family is quite mixed with Scottish, Geordie and RP. I think the problem with the plain past gets worse as the terms get shorter that's quite regressive linguistically in my opinion. Towards the end of typing this you've confirmed what I argued at school and used the same examples.

6:00 for the record, some of these people are reading scripts (e.g. the ubiquitous Simon Whistler) written by Americans or atleast non-British speakers.

Excellent analysis; I have just subscribed to your channel!

Very deep video. Elevated, accurated content that shows 'n' the english's roots, walks and changes.👍🤙

What a wonderful video. Also, I'm amazed how few cuts there actually are. Nowadays we just don't see uncut footage. Where a cut would be (transitioning from point A to point B), you merely pause ♥️ I love that. You're a great lecturer, I can tell.

Because Internet is a great book, and Gretchen’s narration in the audiobook is phenomenal. Heavily recommend.

Much to learn from Dr Geoff, particularly his openness regarding language evolution - this is something I struggle with. Thank you Doctor!

We love you Geoff. Greets from BA - Argentina!

Excellent video. I thought I would point out about the "followed" issue in American English. It's a new form of the verb that is more akin to pressing a button rather than the genuine form of the verb. So I would say "I followed him on Twitter" (clicked the follow button) but in real life I would say "I've become a follower of Jesus". It's similar with the word friend. Online we'd say "I friended you" (clicked the friend button) but in real life we'd say "we became friends" or less common "we've become friends"

Great video, thanks. When I had my first professional writing job for the web (1996), my editor told me off for using ‘gotten’, saying that ‘there was no such word’. But, it was familiar in spoken English where I grew up (West Sussex) and was used by my and other local families. Since you reference its use by Shakespeare, I suspect that this is one of those older English words with usage preserved by our American and Canadian cousins rather than an invention. I sometimes feel that the establishment tried to ‘enclose’ the English language in the 18th century in the same way they enclosed our common land. Perhaps a bit dramatic, but hopefully you get my point.

I loved this video so much especially because it related to Spanish too in some ways. The simple past is constantly used in Latin America where the past perfect is commonly used in Spain and since I spent half a year in Spain I’m a lot more used to the past perfect and although it’s a bit strange since i’m American I always remind myself that the past perfect is common amongst Brits

Great video. Thanks Professor.

This is very interesting. As an American who is probably around your age (? just guessing), I was always taught that using "gotten" was "proper" and using "got" in that context was basically "uneducated" and "wrong." I had no idea that in British English it as perfectly fine. Now I also have a better understanding of why I have heard so many British people say things like "I was sat here" which sounds wrong to an American.

What I rememeber from the time I started learning english (about 45 years ago) is that simple past referred to a specific time in the past ("I went to London this summer") whereas present perfect was about something that belonged to the past but would somehow still influence us in the present ("I don't want to go to London, I've been there twice"). In greek language, it could be the same. A conversation between frineds would be like -"Πάμε να φάμε κάτι;" ("Shall we go to eat something?") -Όχι, έχω φάει" ("Νo, I'VE EATEN") -"Πότε έφαγες;" ("When DID you eat?") "-Έφαγα πριν από μία ώρα" ("I ATE an hour ago").

This is an incredibly interesting video!