Hi guys today in this video we’re going to be comparing the P68 smock and the later P84. I know the general consensus is the P84 was far inferior but we’re still going to be comparing and contrasting the differences between the two.
I’m former 🇬🇧 army, a 2434 from 1974 - 1998. The 1968….beautifully sewn on buttons…. A fantastic heavy metal zip…..incredibly quality of make up. The 1984….buttons that came off with a simple pull….a cheap plastic zip….velcro to replace cuff buttons. All very very cheap quality that literally came apart at the seams.
Having been issues with 68 pattern jackets in the 70s and early 80s I was a bit surprised when some years ago I ordered a much later 84 style DPM jacket to spare my Barbour jacket when renovating a new house and garden. I wondered where the buttons had gone, what was with the Velcro, and why the hood had a copper stiffener. So thanks for explaining the change so clearly. Prefer the old style at least for present tasks. And the pre 68 olive drab jacket was very nice too.
In 1985 I was issued both Smocks in the Airborne Para smock variant. The are generally called '68 pattern and '85 pattern in the British Army. The '68 pattern was better made but the '85 was faster drying with better pockets. The darker Dpm was designed for fighting in Germany where it blended well in the forests and at night. The '68 wasn't worn much in the Falklands as most units had been issued the Artic smock which is longer with a hood and quilted liner. Hope this helps. 🏴🇬🇧
Thanks for the information! I had a pretty hard time at first differentiating 68 pat at first because going by the pattern alone can be pretty tricky as there are a lot of different slight DPM variations and so it's not as obvious which one is from which era. What really helped me out is the smaller details such as lack of velcro and pocket placement. Interesting to hear that the darker DPM was designed for the forests of Germany. It makes sense seeing in that time most NATO powers were preparing for a Fulda Gap invasion scenario.
@@GearReview23 trying not to bore you lol but the '68 is always fully lined the '85 half lined. Early '85s are white inside but we were too visible when turned our clothing inside out to dry it when on exercise so later issue were overdyed green. The best smock for general wear in the woods in my opinion is the new MTP issue windproof smock. I dye mine olive green and wax them as I live in the Outer Hebrides of Scotland. Thanks for your reply sir, keep doing your films. 🏴
@@vonsprague7913 I seem to recall a lot of the early '85s have very dodgy single stitched seams on the pockets. So anything heavy in them would rip the pocket off after a few months of field use. As it was more civilian style stitching. Overall, they were very cheaply made at the start.
The 85 issue was junk unless you wanted to be a stick man to get off guard as it was easier to iron, did you know there is a previous pattern with a hood built in to the back of the collar? easy to spot as its got a stitched seam running up the back. the 85 pattern was particularly good at dropping things out of your pockets every time you bent over too... and was a disaster that was only fit for guard duty.
The 84 pattern (not P84) looks darker because they changed the material to 'modal' which absorbs the inks more and makes the material look darker. They actually changed to this material partway through the 68 pattern so later 68 pattern smocks are the same dark camo as the 84 pattern. The pocket on the right sleeve takes a field dressing.
I had a 68 set in my 'cam collection'. The flat pockets were very restrictive. Also, the composition of the cloth made it very slow-drying. You are correct about the Falklands. On being posted to my first unit, we were told to review the UK Para Regt's after action review from the Falklands. The need for better pockets was specifically mentioned in that report.
I was in the British Army when those 84 patterns were first used, not issued but used as replacements. Everyone wanted one, until they actually had one. Quality was horrendous. The chest pockets fell of, they ripped really easily as did the bellow pockets on the trousers.. The trousers were cut to close, not much room in therm so the crutch seam was the first thing to go. Huge wast of money by the MOD, just keep making 68 patterns until Soldier 90 uniform was introduced, simple.
There was a 1960 patt. smock as well.. had a stitched collar and belows lower pockets.. also was only 3/4 lined and no 'beaver tail'... a replacement to the identical OD jacket of the day used in the late 1950's in the UK military !!
That '1984 Pattern' jacket is actually a 1988 Pattern. The 1984 Pattern had flappy pockets, the 1988 had the bellows. I was issued the the 1968, 1984, 1988, 1990, 1994, 1995 and 2000 patterns before we transitioned to MTP. 1990 added stitching to the bellows pockets and the 1994 jacket added zip chest pockets like the 1995 (C95 or Combat 95) pattern but removed the button flap covering the zip.
No problem; I still have 60, 68, 84 and 95 (2nd, non ripstop) pattern jackets as well as the Cold Weather (Falklands) parka and various windproof and desert variants. @@GearReview23
Great review and very well researched ! You can date the jackets from the contract numbers ! ''Using labels and markings to date postwar British clothing and equipment'' will help you source the information you need bro ! The hoods were buttoned in under the epaulettes and by the back collar button. The extra pocket on the 84 was for a 'first field dressing' (FFD) ..an emergency bandage for bullet wounds ! You have some collectibles there my friend.. going up in price all the time !! Cheers
@@GearReview23 Well the dotty cammo pattern was most likely from 1971 to 1974.. and the later 'un dotted' pattern (it was made darker because the older design glared out under Russian night vision goggles of the time) 1968 patt was first issued in 1971 replacing the green pattern uniform !! ..crazy I know ! During the Falklands we wore the lighter smocks issued to the SAS and the RM.. known as the 'windproof smock ' ..the SAS version had a smaller hood and the RM version had a wired hood !
I have my dad's 'jump jacket'; Canadian paratroopers wore it in the 80's, I can't find it anywhere online. It's 4 color green, dark green dominant. I always wondered what the pattern is called
I'm sure 'camopedia' online has a blurb on it. The Canadian DPM para smock was in use from 1974 until approximately 2000. It was meant more of a symbol than as a practical garment. Although my Airborne friends sometimes claimed that it made them invisible and bullet-proof. These same friends admit that they rarely, if ever, wore it in the field. It was more of a garrison garment. My Dad's time in the AB Regt encompassed years prior to its issue and after. Use was expanded after the creation of the Special Svc Force Bde in the summer of 1977. With this, all constituent units of the SSF were issued the smock as an identifying feature... even non-jumpers. For example, 1st Bn Royal Canadian Regt was part of the SSF from 1977 to the bde's renaming in 1995. As such, all ranks of that unit wore the smock despite many of the soldiers being 'legs'. This caused some ill-feeling and made a mockery of the whole concept of issuing para smocks to AB troops. The origins of the smock and its DPM cam are quite interesting. In the early 70s, Tanzania adopted DPM as their army's cam and contracted a Canadian firm to make their new uniforms (in the Canadian cut). When the AB Regt was designing a new smock, the textile/garment firm told them they had bolts and bolts of this excess material for Tanzania and asked if the AB Regt wanted to use it? The rest is history. While serving in Africa in 2001, I noted that some Tanzanians were still wearing that uniform.
@@lib556 yea, dad was a 2RCR sniper. It's definitely not a DPM derivative. When I go visit, I'll make a video for you so we can get to the bottom of this hahaha
@@davidoftheforest The Canadian para smock is definitely a DPM derivative with slightly different colour tones. If your Dad had ever been posted to 1 RCR or the AB Regt or Bde staff at the SSF, he'd have been issued with a para smock. I re-read your post and the fact that it is dominated by greens is making me wonder. Is it possible that your Dad incorporated the garrison dress jacket into his sniper kit? The garrison dress was an attempt to replace our 'work dress' with something cooler-looking. Some old folks were obsessed with the need for an interim dress between combats and dress uniform. This dress involved a smock-style jacket that was camo but didn't resemble any current known pattern. It was very green and very polyester. Not suitable for any field wok at all. Use Google images to search 'Canadian garrison dress 1980s/90s' and see if this is what you are thinking of.
With the '84 pattern you were issued the " Chinese fighting suit " which was a quilted suite to wear under it in cold weather but on exercise no one wore it as you had a Norgy or Norwegian shirt & Jersey heavy wool which was warm. Extreme cold some wore an old Green parker but tgere was newer dpm ones too.
