BROKEN BULKHEADS?//Inspecting Our Lagoon 450F Bulkheads-Episode 96 

I was shocked too, so many people are missing out

I'm surprised they havent blown past 100k

He just wants to sell his boat.

Yep. Doesn't matter if it isn't broken yet;we all saw the way they build during the Parlay videos. The only one id buy would be Collins.

Not to mention there were owners with damaged bulkheads who had never re-tensioned their rig. What it honestly comes down to is that it was a bad design, made worse by cutting corners during construction to meet production quotas for most likely time AND cost. Especially with cats, a boat needs to be OVERBUILT to withstand the stresses involved, and Lagoon simply dropped the ball here, and then tried to deny it and throw Collin under the bus, until tons of owners started popping up with the same issue. Lagoon should have gotten out in front of this straight off and made things right instead of trying to bury it and deny it, and hide it... because now they've ruined their name with a lot of people, myself included, who will never consider a Lagoon, ever.

sailing joy VLOG lagoon are now inspecting the 460 - they need to sack the marine engineers because their calculations on stresses were so wrong - to see how it should be done see ruby rose and the seawind cats with carbon fibre bulkheads

@@FlesHBoX wise choice avoid like the plague

@@jimlofts5433 have a look at ‘Balance Catamarans’ on RU-vid. 👀🐬⚓️🏖🌴☀️🇦🇺

@@jacksbackable yes from south africa - built by yatchies for yachties - same same - carbon fibre / light weight - yes it can be done - why would you even look at a condo boat unless you want a lot of boat yard repair content - how much extra to use 7 or 10 ply in 2 bulkheads if you still want cheap - amazing cheapskates or p155 poor engineering to a minimum standard supposedly needed

I second that 😄

LOL! You knew it.

Collin is lucky he only broke his bulkhead when he over tensioned his lines and didn’t drive the mast right through the bottom of the boat!

Sailing Impi did fine in the Roaring 40s but you're on point for unreinforced boats.

I’ve got an FP and live in the Roaring 40’s. Saw every single Parlay Revival video, including their bulkhead repairs. The Lagoon 450 bulkheads are thin ply and are not fibre glassed into the hulls properly. You can see it with your own eyes in the videos when Colin strips everything around the bulkheads right down to the hulls. I ran back to my Orana and checked my bulkheads when I saw Colin’s nightmare of a situation. Our FP bulkheads are thick and very well glassed into the hulls. Yes, FP’s are total production boats and have their own set of issues, but one thing is for sure, our FP does not have structural bulkhead issues like Lagoon 450’s do. And we sail in the Roaring 40’s only….hardly a creak, with a level cockpit floor using a pulled string from port to starboard deck, just like Colin did, which the proper way to check if the boat’s hulls are straight or not. (Not with a vertical level at the walls). Anyway, just saying, FP’s and Lagoons are not the same in this regard.

Of course by now you are aware that Ben and Ashley had a leak and subsequent rotted out core of the bridge deck. Their bulkheads were ok. Not sure what, if anything other than advice, Lagoon did for them although it appears that Lagoon as part of the Beneteau Corporation, like to rely on non-disclosure agreements.

Yes, we saw this problem on every 440 we looked at. Way under designed as standard by Lagoon.

That and before Colin started investigating his bulkheads, he had a rigging specialist check his rigging. There was nothing wrong with it. It was that rigging specialist who told Colin he had to check his bulkheads.

Also unless I misread it, the language used just sounds like lawyer speak limiting liability. All the bulkheads across numerous lagoon models are suspect, yet the only guarantee one of the bulkheads in relation to the aspect of safety while at sea.

already done. 3mm gap at center

Totally agree… I understand this is essentially a sales video to get rid of his 450… but to say that you will not lose your mast when the rigging is under tensioned to that extent is misleading and dangerous…. The 450 should be recalled… I also still can’t get my head around how the Leopard 50 completely sank and another one completely burnt to the ground… wowsy

There are actually a LOT of glass on ply boats out there working just fine, so this shouldn't end up being an issue. Though, Lagoon really needs to get with the times and switch to foam core, which would eliminate any potential sheering issues, AND save weight, something Lagoons have a real problem with. Unfortunately foam core is more expensive, and since they are paying for French labor, that would make their margins even smaller while they are competing with boat builders in Asia and SA where labor rates are significantly lower.

Lagoons initial response was to try and bury this, hide it, and throw Collin under the bus. Lagoon only started doing right by their customers after they were forced into it by plummeting market values for the 450.

D2 is a Leopard, not a Lagoon, and at this point I've not heard of any other cats than the Lagoon 450 specifically having this kind of systemic issue. Primarily because most catamarans are designed with safety margins built in, and because they experience significantly higher stresses than monohulls, tend to have very large safety margins built in. Unfortunately in this instance, Lagoon implemented a design that appears to only just barely meet the stress requirements of the boat sitting in calm water and forgot about safety margins.

…even if it was super cheap I wouldn’t touch it, disaster waiting to happen unless fully redone and reinforced.

i am in the market for a similar cat, and agree. I could fix it like Colin did, and know it is done correctly. I do not feel the bandaid solution Lagoon is recommending is adequate.

The only Lagoon I’d ever buy is Parlay Revival….that boat is now bullet proof with regards to hull and bulkhead strength. 💪🏼 Their only Achilles heel is lightning 😩⚡️

Craven, I apologize for not getting back to you. We received a lot of spam and some messages got lost in the mess. Please send us an email referencing this discussing and your youtube handle and I will be sure to get back to you. Thanks for watching!

No, they don't. They had rotten floorboards due to water ingress, an entirely different issue, and something found on all old boats not properly refitted. The bulkheads on their 14-year-old, great-deal-at-the-time, ex-charter-bought and sailed halfway around the world-boat is just fine. And the repair was relatively minor. But they sure milked the Lagoon thing. Imagine buying a decade-and-a-half old Ford RV and complaining about rust on the chassis, or broken tie rods. That's what everyone is missing here.

@Mal I respectfully disagree. It is the same thing. What I see is a bunch of you-tubers shoe-stringing adventures on old, ex-charter boats. By definition, most of them don't have money (which is why the attention-grabbing Patron-strategies), they buy boats without having proper sureveys done (because, expensive), most of them are unqualified and learn on-the-job to fix obvious things (bit of epoxy, paint, etc) but often only cosmetically, easy stuff. Then they load up their loved ones and off they go, their lives in their own hands, not the way-back manufacturer of the vessel. And suddenly discover rigging or structural issues halfway across the world, then try to milk the 2008 manufacturer. Maybe a bit more introspection is in order. The manufacturer warranty expired long time ago, for good reason, and despite the "influencer" hysteria, this particular issue is not life-threatening. Anyway, Lagoon did eventually come to the party on the 450, even if it took a bit long to understand the issue (which generally appears on much older boats).

Bottom line… don’t take a lagoon offshore unless you have support.. build for coastal waters and chartering

@Mal Riiiiiight... so where does one draw the line? Or more succinctly, where is YOUR personal line? None of these vessels sank during the period that the warranty was in place; and you misunderstand EC rating: it is not forever-ever into the next century regardless of age or service or usage history, whatever the product from aeroplane or ship or vehicle. If Lagoon sells you the second-hand ship you have legal recourse and no doubt they would have honoured it straight off the bat, as the knowing seller. But how old should a vessel be before you would think maybe, just MAYBE, one should check the thing out thoroughly before loading your family up and sailing around the world? On the expiry of warranty? 5 years beyond warranty? 10 years? Is 20 years OK, or can one rely on blaming the manufacturer many years into the future, while hanging onto some mid-Atlantic flotsam? In this case (Lagoon, for whom I hold no brief) is - luckily for all the ambulance-chasing RU-vidrs - still in business; the whole thing would have been moot if there wasn't the possibility of a free lunch. Best of all: they all bought on price, whether salvaged or just secondhand. Meanwhile, elsewhere, there are plenty of people who buy older yachts and do a proper, nails-and-bolts bottom-up job of reconditioning before taking on something as arduous as a circumnavigation. See SAIL LIFE. etc. (Or buy new: no Lagoon has sunk within its warranty period.) You're right, of course: this is not a car, it is much more intrepid to be stranded out in mid-ocean than on land. Anyway, we can differ on this, but my feeling is that individuals should take some responsibility instead of this unseemly business of brand-mailing a manufacturer who did not ask questions about sorting out warranty issues, only old, ex-charter boats. Age matters. If you're buying a used boat with balsa sandwich construction and of unknown provenance (charter) then expect to do some work on everything from checking osmosis to water ingress on stress points to rigging to measuring variances and angles.

@@jacquesleroux5882 I don't think that section of rot they found can account for all the additional flexing

I guess only Lagoon owners are #1 buying hurricane damaged catamarans #2 over tightening their rigging !! Yeah right !

And you’re saying the poor design of the bulkheads strength had nothing to do with it. Ha.

@@bmanley80 I’m saying to can take the man out of the trailer park but you can’t take the trailer park out of the man!

@@jamielancaster01NO, you are just saying(repeatedly) that you don't know what you are talking about. But please continue to dazzle us with your ignorance.

@@taylorhickman84 Who are you? I’ve been a Marine Engineer (PE, NE, & MSB certified) for 17 yrs so I might know a little bit about the subject.

Unfortunately the 450 bulkhead problem was not affecting just storm damaged boats. It was also affecting boats that had never had their rigs re-tensioned after they left the factory. There were more than 60 owners within a few months of Collin's first videos about this reporting damaged bulkheads many of whom had never sailed in rough conditions. It would be one thing if Lagoon had said "oh shit guys, yeah, this is an issue, let's get it taken care of" but their initial behavior was to try to bury it and blame the owners until it became so obvious that it was a design issue that it started impacting the market value of their boats, only then did they decide to do the right thing.

@@FlesHBoX You addressed two of the points which I made, then went off on a tangent. Most of the now privately owned Lagoon 450 cats out there were originally charter boats. Have you ever watched the behavior of people who have chartered boats and who have crewed the boats themselves? I have. LOTS of drinking and partying, with little to no regard for the proper handling of the vessel. More than a few of these were beached while under power of both engines and/or full sail. Also, there is the fact that people have stressed the structural integrity of the boats by improperly sailing/motoring them in heavy seas. Yes, there apparently is a design flaw in the bulkhead(s). That is finally, finally being addressed, which is a good thing. However, for people to jump on the "sue! sue! sue!" bandwagon, without looking at the shared responsibilities of the manufacture AND the people who have abused the boats when they were chartered, is something which also needs addressing.

@@FlesHBoX I can’t imagine many owners would routinely attempt to tension standing rigging, and why would they need to , unless it had gone slack , and why would it unless there were already a problem ? I think the real answer is probably the boats were built down to a price rather than up to a quality .

@@leonply When people who are original owners of boats that have very low miles on them and have never had their rig adjusted are having the exact same issues, it doesn't matter if some of the boats are charter boats. It doesn't matter if some people DID abuse their boats, and it doesn't matter if some boats did encounter heavy seas or storms. When boats that have lived very lazy lives are having this issue, the responsibility lies 100% on Lagoon for improperly designing their boats (and from the sound of it either greasing some wheels to get the design past regulatory bodies, or altering the design post- approval to save some pennies). When boats sitting in calm waters are experiencing buckling bulkheads, the only amazing thing about the boats that have been abused is that they didn't start falling apart sooner, lol. And for Lagoon to start out by denying and trying to hide this issue, anyone defending them is either ignorant, an owner who doesn't want to lose money on theirs, or a shill. I've never said that Lagoon should be sued, but I have said that I will never own a Lagoon even if they DID make a boat that I was interested in.

@@paulkopp3634 Exactly. Lagoon just cannot compete with the other boats in their category that are made in SA or Asia without making compromises. And since Lagoon makes most of their money selling to charters in the fair weather areas, they make even more compromises thinking it won't be a big deal since these boats will never see heavy seas... except that they have no problem selling these compromised boats to individuals who very well may take them out of the marina every once in a while.. lol