Sounds like the original motor only needed a new capacitor. Getting the original motor running on the bench would be a decent addition to this second channel.
It seems like it probably is the run capacitor from feedback. If only the lathe supplier had talked me through that and not just tried to sell me a new motor. It all worked out great though as I love the 3 phase and VFD set up. :)
I have a lathe very similar to yours and had similar problems to what you were experiencing. I changed out the capacitors to discover that it was the internal switch inside the motor. I was fortunate enough that it was still under warranty. The motor was upgraded to a better quality motor and all is well
@@robertoswalt319 that would be the centripetal switch that flips between start and run capacitors. Very agricultural speed control. The VFD solution is far better, just got to stay mindful of the torque implications when manipulating speed with frequency.
HI I have a similar lathe, I move it by placing a bar though the spindle and moving the tail stock to the end of the bed. I believe your motor problem is the start capacitor. remember that the motors integrated fan will not cool the motor when running slow if you run it for an extended period. short term is fine. Good luck Rich
From feedback I've had I believe it may be the running capacitor. I've had a few start capacitors go on different machines and they've never behaved like this(making the whole machine vibrate) I've never had a run capacitor go though so I don't know about that. :)
Cool video Neil. You're a throwback to a time when guys could do it all. Wood and metal metal working by had and machine shop, welding, electrical, to name a few and now millwright. I would be proud to be your neighbor. Thanks for sharing.
Many people here not understanding why people create a second channel - a video thats tangential to regular content, in this case a repair, not a build, will often get less views. RU-vid will perceive this as a poorly performing video and as a result the next video published would have a lower chance of getting pushed to a wider audience. By creating a second channel, RU-vidrs can get around this algorithm quirk. It also gives them a place to relax their editing if they wish as people who are in for the second channel content generally are more passionate about their work. This in turn means they're more likely to publish second channel videos more frequently, as editing is no easy task; I'm sure in Neil's case it's almost as long as some of his builds. Just ring the bell to stay updated and enjoy the extra content you would have otherwise not seen!
@@PaskMade glad to hear it! Was pleased to hear of the second channel, thought I might have missed it before, but see this is the first long format vid! Looking forward to more. Between your Instagram and these two, I'm keeping well up to date!!
Looks like a precision matthews lathe at first. But they have great build quality so I was gonna be surprised if it was one of theirs. But it’s not. Thank you for putting content out like this!!
I have done this on my 12x40 lathe and my knee mill. Super upgrade. Turning threads is so much easier, I don’t even bother to use back gears any more. Given the cost of cheap Chinese Vfd s from Amazon prime it’s a much more affordable. The settings are a bit of a trick though. Each brand seems to use different programming. I had one defaulted to 400hz, which is exciting on a motor designed for 60! I needed to change this number in about 4 places in the settings before finally finding the right one that made a difference. The other adjustment was the low speed voltage adjustment. One brand worked fine out of the box, but the other had no torque at low speed and needed the low speed voltage bumped up. Too high and the motor growled at low speed, too low, no torque. Take plenty of notes, and remember that the motor may start unexpectedly if you do something silly.
In the UK i have a very similar lathe, i upgraded it from 2Hp up to 3Hp well worth it, turning large diameters example car brake discs without stalling the motor wonderful, excellent video thanks for sharing, from Coventry in UK 👍🇬🇧.
Great video, Neil. It took me a while to realize that you have started a new channel. I love it but please, make sure you advertise it to others. All that you have shown here is valuable to some part of the audience and I hope more and more people will find the beauty in both "makes" and "made" Thank you!
Awesome upgrade. My lathe is much much smaller - and fully support the idea! I've replaced the original motor (for the second time) with a 550W sewing machine motor and built in VFD controller. This is SO much better! I can control the speed without even bothering with the belts! My belts are tiny and easy to replace but turning a knob is much simpler :)
Great video Neil, I was concentrating so much on your other channel that I didn't think of searching for this one mate. Sorry about that 😊 now subscribing.
The level of inconvenience to me of Pask having multiple channels is so low it can only be measured with a microscopic measuring tool he makes on his third channel: Pask Makes Microscopic Measuring Tools.
I would have happily watched this on your main channel. I don't understand why people keep creating second channels for bonus content, just keep it one channel.
I hear ya. I’ve seen some create a second channel for a very specific or different type of video, like a.l unboxing videos or something. But it’s not like he’s cranking out so many videos that it’s overwhelming… this would have been a great bonus video.
It is RU-vids fault....the algorithm punishes creators when they get out of their "box" and by doing a second channel he can create a new audience and a new revenue stream without breaking the box of the main channel.
Absolutely! Like I said Gameco are good people and they really didn't need to do that. They just appreciate the content I put out and improving the maker scene. :)
@@PaskMade Hey Neil, just in future remember that 12 month warranty is just marketing lingo and NOT Australian consumer law which dictates a "reasonable" length of time depending on the product and purchase price. A fridge/tv for example would have a reasonable life of greater then 5 years and a Lathe would absolutely have a reasonable expectation of greater then 12 months. Obviously the upgrade is way better anyway but just some thought for the future!
@@nutsandgum Absolutely. Consumer law overrides the factory warranty in EVERY SINGLE CASE! Hare & Forbes repeatedly deny warranty in breach of consumer law. They rely heavily on consumer ignorance.
Great to have a second Pask Channel for this sort of video. I can understand why they will live here and allow curating the main feed to the broader audience. Fun times!
I had the same issue. I got a similar machine from Hare & Forbes. The motor burnt out within a week. They then fitted a replacement and had the same issue as yours. My electrician told me they had wired the new motor wrong. They would not accept this but came to an agreement. I purchased a new quality 3 phase motor, and a different tech guy fitted a VFD and wired in the new motor. It was a complicated conversion as the machine is single phase so not easy to change over. It's way better now.
the caps are no good and just leaving it sit there growling will just make things overheat and fry the windings , giving it a small spin get around the issue on mine, I will be buying new caps to replace the Chinese ones that are causing the problem
I have one of these lathes and it does the same, solution is to replace to large capacitors that are on the electric motor, I am yet to do this and I simply grab the chuck and spin it a little and then it will start normally , it mainly does it in winter ( Australia ) and is fine with the warmer weather
That sounds like the start capacitor and I've had a few of those go on different machines. This was totally different though, it ran but just shook and vibrated the whole machine (a surprising amount which really made me wonder what was going on). :)
@@PaskMade Yes, mine does have a crook cap in the motor , I have found that a small spin gets things moving, only does it when turning the lathe on after being idle overnight, once it has been used for any amount of time it isn't an issue. not currently enough of an issue to want to get a new cap
I have a close clone of that same lathe and ran into a similar issue... thought I took a different path. My motor has a start cap and a set of contacts in the motor that engage (or disengage) after the motor gets up to a certain speed. These contacts were switching startup current draw, and had been damaged by arcing and pitting. For my fix, I'm sending low voltage (24vdc?) through the motors centrif contacts, and using that low voltage signal to engage the capacitor with a solid state relay. No arcing.
If you’re turning a large diameter piece, I expect that the speed control would be useful. I made an adaptor plate for my lathe and although it came out fine, the speed never seemed to be quite right as I moved across the face.
Just a thought from experience. Whenever I anchor studs in concrete I drill the holes straight through. That way I can drive the stud down and not have to lift the equipment over them when I remove them. You can drop a new redhead type stud right in and lock it back down in place when ready. You never have to lift the equipment and line up the studs
Maybe it’s not in line with this channel, but I’d love just a general shop or project update. Covering items you’ve made, rebuilt, etc. and how they’re holding up.
Three phase has benefits like lower draw and smoother cutting on sufficiently precise machinery. VFD are a wonderful addition giving speed control without fussing with belts on mills or lathes. I also have a rotary phase converter to drive my two industrial compressors which is especially useful because starting one then the other is far less load than a single motor of twice the HP. Building a simple large RPC would be a good video as they're quite simple and old motors are cheap. (I put mine on wheels and used SOOW cable and twistlocks for convenient shop reorganization and cleaning. My horizontal compressors also roll on large scaffolding castered dollies (tubing to mount them is cheap). This would be ideal for a renter who doesn't want to leave or wrassle their machines if they move. My vertical industrial receiver tank is fixed for convenience but was easy to hoist vertical by a lifting lug welded to the pipe plug on top. My lathe and mill are also mobile, the mill by pallet jack and by an attached outrigger dolly, the lathe by more casters. My shop air doesn't use piping. I use red hose and 3/4" Chicago couplings so I can rearrange and alter easily. I mounted simple hooks for the air hose so I can just lift it out as required. Almost everything I have is mobile including most of my shipping containers though my main shop is two welded side-by-side so a couple hours cutting would be needed to split them for relocation. (I'd just buy more one-trip grade containers but I own now and have no plans to move.)
Hi! I think you should check the starting capacitor in your motor. I had pretty similar issue with my bandsaw, after I replaced the capacitor it worked perfectly. In my case it was like a less than 4 EUR component which I could buy easily in a electric hardware store. (The bandsaw is a Metabo BAS 318, - around 500-550 EUR - but it's pretty unrelated to the problem).
Heatshrink on the wire is higher end "race car" wiring, so good in this application. I'd look into ferrules and a crimper. Both can be had for not much and it makes the wire ends going into screw terminals a better/safer connection. Otherwise great as always.
When you're pushing wires through sleeving, start with something thin and stiff, like welding wire with the end folded over to stop it catching. In sparkie land this is called a draw wire. Once the wire is through the sleeving, tape the cables to the end and use the draw wire to pull them through. You can then untape and save your draw wite for the next job!
Usually it's no big deal to go to double the motor rated frequency, so 50Hz motor should have no issues going to 100Hz. Also, I think you can increase your acceleration time a little - it seems ab it on the slow side. Usually 1S is pretty good - it seems more like 6 seconds currently - that's REALLY slow!
Maybe you thought about this already, but fishing tape would have made that shrink tubing chore much easier. Run the fishing tape through the tubing first, connect wires to it, then pull it through.
In my 50+ years of maintenance experience, I'd always, but always, sort out the hard to get at first, before doing the easy to get at. It just makes the job seem easier.
Just a random thought, maybe if you wanna thread cables through a heat shrink like that again, use a pull cord or string? Not sure what the right term is, but what like electricians use to pull wire through a long distance.
I have a overhead square tube with holes for shackles. I attach 1 eye threaded screw into the headstock filler. Then use the other 2 sling points to lift 99 % of the weight. But your lifting the stand.
Hello from the USA, I really like how you used the wood blocks, piece of steel and crowbar to shimmy/move the lathe over slowly. I did the same with my huge steel welding table, love the channel and your videos By the way did you make/add your oiler to your horizontal bandsaw?, I have a 4 x 6 horizontal bandsaw and wanted to find a better oiler than the ones I've seen on different RU-vid channels. Thank you and hopefully get back with you soon. Be safe & take care Daren'
Most likely the motor just needed a new start capacitor, or possibly the run cap was also bad, best to just replace both and it should be sorted, but always good to check the windings and centrifugal switch are also ok, as bad caps can burn out the windings and c.switch if you make too many start attempts. If the motor just hums like your's, an easy way to test if the start cap or run cap are bad is to switch it on and kick start the pulley (carefully) by hand. If the motor will then start and run at full speed, you know the run cap and c.switch are both ok.👍
To get wires down heat shrink put a compressed air line down too. Makes it much easier. If it’s still really hard you can put a pig down with a this line (just a block almost the size of the heat shrink with a ring in the back to tie a line)
Sounds like it just wanted a new start capacitor to me, they are a common failure and it happened to my lathe, three phase is the way to go though for another reason that being it doesn't matter how many start stops you do per hour, where as single phase cap start cap run it does and you are supposed to limit that number to around 10 per hour depending on power of motor, thats what buggers up the start cap.
I have the same lathe and am interested in the VFD upgrade. Did you do anything special for the foot operated brake or does it simply cut power to the VFD?
I reckon ole mates at HAF Machinery House would have a pretty bad day if the ACCC found out about them denying coverage on a several thousand dollar device used in a home environment after only 12 months, but regardless, this is a great upgrade. Sherwood provides 5 years on their tools, for example..
I'd wager that if you put a new capacitor on the original motor it would spin just fine. Maybe you can keep it around for a back-up. Here in the United States, we have a product called Redheads Concrete Anchors that eliminate the need to epoxy studs in the floor. You could have dropped the Redheads into the holes with the lathe in place and then run-down the nuts without monkeying around with moving the lathe and trying to get it over the epoxied studs. 👍
Just remember, 3 phase motors running on a VFD have an interest characteristic. When operating below 50Hz the are “constant torque”, not “constant power”. This means that if you go from 50Hz to 25hz the speed will be cut in half, but so will the torque. Unlike gears, which are “constant power”. If you half the speed using gears the torque doubles. Once you get over 50Hz you are in “constant power” mode. If you go from 50Hz to 75hz the power will stay the same, but the torque will be cut in half.
Motor sounds like the start capacitor. Some have a start / run capacitor, and others have 2 capacitors as one is start and the other is run. Yours has 2. Just a $15 part you can buy at any electrical supply place. it is a quick 5 min job to replace. Shifting anything heavy that has a strong flat base you use waterpipe. Your lathe you would lift and put 5 pieces under each end evenly spaced and just push it and as it comes off one piece you shift it around to the front and keep going.
Hi just by way of a question ? I noticed that your 3 phase motor was 1.5hp & that you’d changed the provided VFD from TECA, to another 3 phase VFD that you already had, and this Stated that the VFD Was for a 2.2kw motor !! I was of the belief that VFD’s were to be motor/size matched ? I would assume that you’ve been told differently ? As the VFD & motor Seem to work ok ? Would you have any clarity on this matter ?
have you done any work between centres yet? al336 here, or under various other guises. that tailstock is distinctive in being the ONLY tailstock with that factory "defect". one day... one day im going to hack it up and make it useful...
Follow the manufacturer's directions for picking up a lathe or milling machine. These machines are VERY top heavy and if not slung correctly will roll over in the slings and onto you. Important to never have the slings over the control rod, drive rod, or lead screw. You will bend them for sure.
Next time pick up the lathe by wrapping the sling around just behind the chuck, and another in the bed web between the ways. So you don't end up flipping the lathe up side down
If you are in Southern California and are lusting after lathes and other precision machinery, Bal-Tec is condensing two huge shops into one, and is selling redundant machines. You can easily find their phone number on the Internet.
Any equipment that is wired to plug into a general power outlet is fine as per what more than a few electricians have told me. you still need to understand how to do the job correctly though
An angry hum like that is almost certainly going to be something wrong with the starting circuitry, which in a motor like this is composed of the start capacitor, a centrifugal switch, and the starter winding. Worst case is the centrifugal switch gets stuck closed and burns out the starter winding, but most often it's the capacitor losing its magic smoke or the contacts on the centrifugal switch getting crapped up and not closing. Both of those latter issues are in the "it's a $10 fix" ballpark, so don't toss the motor in the bin just yet. That said, upgrading to a 3 phase with a VFD is a great move, and any excuse is a good one if you can swing it.
Because not every utilities supplies 3 phase by default. And retrofitting 3 phase power and then rebalancing the single phase loads is more work than just adding a vfd
I know I am way too late with this observation, but: would it not have been better to epoxy long nuts into the floor (flush or below) and then bolt the lathe in those? Also: use gloves when working with epoxy! You do NOT want that stuff on your skin.
