@@omarcogle1965 That's kinda the stark, cruel beauty of it. His parents aren't saying or doing anything because they're dead reduced to being moldering bodies in the ground marked by a gravestone. If they were alive they'd probably say, "go for it and be happy" but they're not and they can't. He needs to give himself permission and that's understandably really hard to do staring their deaths right in the face.
“I didn’t see this coming, I didn’t count on being happy” This. This is one of the most important lines in the Batman mythos and its a real shame too because it gets overlooked every time.
Someone finally said it. Watched this in 2011 when I was just 9 years old and that line (let alone the animated series and this movie) showed me more about Bruce Wayne and Batman than every other movie or cartoon ever could
It's the "Please, I need it to be different now" that gets me every time. It seems like such a heartfelt plea, you can hear it pouring out of Conroy's voice. All leading into Batman sulking in the shadows having accepted his fate many years before. It's like the Rolling Stones said "You can't always get what you want." It feels like Bruce is pleading to the heavens to be able to not take on this task that's set in front of him, and they reach out and tell him "no...but suffer too this tragedy if you must."
In an interview, Conroy said he had to tap into a dark time in his childhood and feel like he was speaking to his father and their own issues. Kevin Conroy acting really made Batman that much better
It's interesting that 3 voice actors had to go into a dark place when it came to voicing emotional scenes. 1. Kevin Conroy tapping into the dark place for this emotional scene in Batman: Mask Of The Phantasm. 2. Grey Griffin tapped into a dark place as well when she voiced Azula's breakdown in Avatar: The Last Airbender. She voiced that scene alone in the voice room. 3. Zach Callison voicing Steven's emotional breakdown in Steven Universe Future, also to add, when Steven was crying, finally letting go, that was also Zach crying in real life, because I heard somewhere he was going through something around that time.
Indeed, he did. I seem to remember reading somewhere that when he recorded this scene Andrea Romano the voice director for Warner Brothers gave him a hug afterwards because he put so much of his own pain into his performance.
I guess it's not the same as tapping into a dark place as much as it is method acting, but Julie Kavner was made to record the video tape scene in The Simpsons Movie (where Marge leaves Homer for real) 100 times? 1000 times? So the emotional stress Marge feels comes across as more genuine.
@@omarcogle1965 its quite common for actors to do this and get into the mindset to deliver the lines right, they dont usually ever get into detail about this i would surmise to keep it out of their minds when they dont need it to help keep it fresh when they need it
This might be the greatest look into Bruce’s psyche ever portrayed. He’s asking his dead parents for permission……to let them go. To be happy. To have a life of his own. That is seriously screwed up. It shows the true tragedy of this character. Great movie
it really shows the truth of batman: he's not a sane person. he's a rich guy who dresses up like a bat and beats up criminals on a nightly basis. i think this might be the only movie that explores this side of bruce. the only other one i can think of is "the batman".
Yes I agree. Batman Forever also tapped into his phyche, but this did a better job. Only because in this scene he's asking permission to move on. DAMN! @@maxacorn
@@maxacorn I hate this take so much and its so disrespectful to the character. He's doing something selfless for the good of the city. There was even an episode where he went missing for a while and GCPD said how much the crime rose with his absence. If the Batman disappears his villains dont magically go away either.
@@abominablesnowman64 Vengeance is never a selfless act. It's quite the opposite. I think you need to broaden your perspective of the character. You're dehumanizing him by putting his motives in such a narrow box.
What’s sad is I think his parents would have wanted him to stop his path, find genuine happiness. I always felt that his fear of disappointing them came true when he became colder and turned into the old man he was in Beyond.
I think bruce desverses some happiness Considering what he has gone through. I remember In a episode where he tossed a wedding ring into the ocean. In some comics on earth 2 bruce and dick seem to find happiness. Bruce married Selina Kyle and they have a daughter, dick married Barbara and they have I think 2 kids. I think dark characters like bruce desverses some kind of peace in the end
this is actually in one of the comics Bruce realizes as the anniversary of his parents death approaches that he doesn't remember what his mother looks like anymore and the pain of his parents death starts to fade and Bruce feels guilty as if by losing his reason for being batman is doing his parents an injustice. comic stuff happens and ras al ghul gives him a potion that will allow him to speak with his parents. Who pretty much tells him that they never wanted him to be batman in the first place (in fact his father is so angry at him for "throwing his life away" that he initially refuses to even meet with Bruce) and that no parent would want their son to be grieving for them after some 30 yrs had passed but if batman is who he wants to be they support him and wish him luck.
@@omarcogle1965 I agree. He was a young boy that didn't understand what happened. And it's unrealistic that in real life he'd not have gotten intense therapy! Perhaps he did, but it didn't help. When you loose a loved one to violence, you're NEVER completely the same. I'm a victim to this. Tho, I was an adult when it happened, and not a child. When I watch this scene tho, I feel his innocence here, and the fact he feels he HAS to live up to his VOW to his parents. He's a lost child.
Also, one thing I loved about Andrea Beaumont, was that she was not after Bruce Wayne's money. She truly loved him and was equally still quietly mourning her mother, which made their meeting at the cemetery more meaningful....
She was the assassin hired by Amanda Waller to kill the new Batman parents on Batman Beyond. But she couldn't do it, because it would have not what Bruce would wanted. They were killed later on anyway by someone else. But neither Andrea nor Waller were behind it. Still we see that Andrea remained an assassin or vigilante. That she was alive and that she still remembered and respected Bruce.
To me had Kevin Conroy still been alive and Had I worked On my He-man reboot to be a real thing I would always have in mind for Kevin conroy for the role as King hiss as his voice would fit the role so well
It's so sad because in Bruce's mind he believes he shouldn't be happy even though with the amount of good he's done throughout his career, he still believes he should suffer/mourn for the death of his parents. You see it throughout the comics too, he gets so paranoid when everything is working out for him whether it's business or personal stuff.
I think that's Bruce's coping mechanism, the second he finds happiness, it feels like a disappointment to his parents, when in reality, they'd be happy for him.
What’s brilliant about the writing and Kevin’s performance is Bruce isn’t really talking to his parents. He’s talking to the darkness inside his head and pleading with it to release him from his vow so he can be happy. His parents would 100% want him to be happy and not pursue The Plan.
@@Crimson28 And when you this to Batman Beyond, Bruce in pursuing the plan basically cost him everything, shutting people out and becoming a bitter old man, living with a dog, a d alone.
Alfred is the unsung hero of this moment. Andrea had just phoned for Bruce, and he instead left for the graveyard, expecting Alfred to leave her hanging and make up an excuse for him. Instead, you know Alfred told Andrea that Bruce needed her, where he was headed, and to come right away.
You also notice that was also the many reasons he drove people away as well. Bruce & Dick had a falling out, because he was so deep into the mission, and in Batman Beyond, he and Terry had a brief argument because Terry actually wanted to have a life outside of being Batman.
@@gibbs615 I think that was always his problem, he always mental blocks himself from being happy. At least in the Christopher Nolan films, he at least let's Bruce be happy in the end with Selena.
@@omarcogle1965 Yeah true that was always Bruce's main problem. It was not his fault and was out of his control as a kid🙄 Also yes at the end of Christopher Nolan's Batman movies he really did finally let it go and went to live a normal happy life with Selina😉 He was also balanced and more of a romantic in Batman Forever and in the Telltale Batman game series too where he actually showed that he loved Selina depending on what we choose.
This scenes always hits me hard. The battle of psychological trauma is one you cannot win. You can seek therapy. You can try to hide behind pills or drown your demons in alcohol. They are always there.
This may sound like a crude method, but its worked for me so far. When some trauma is simply too terrifying to deal with and shit you do not want to think about, you bury it, you shove other shit over it, and you don't go there, ever.
The burden of being a good son its the worst pain no man or woman could ever understand ive been there at my fathers grave many times saying the exact same thing an always get the same answer push on son do what you feel is right in your heart ❤️ cause thats who you are
When my father died in 2017, it changed the course of my life. I grew darker and distant.. And over the years its boldened in various ways. Ive clung to the pain. As my punishment, but also as my motivation. Just A few months ago however, I met the love of my life. & My life has been brightening day by day... She's helped bring light to my life in so many ways. I never saw this coming. Never thought someone like me would have someone like this.. but here she is.. and i am eternally greatful. I saw mask of the phantasm as a kid, but now i understand this film differently and only now does this scene hit me hard. I want to let go of the pain.. the hurt.. i want to move forward and finally feel ready. Sometimes it almost feels bad to let go but.. i need it to be different now. Thank you to the cast and writers for making something so timeless and relatable.. i love this movie. I wish everyone who sees this will find the light on their life and find the strength to let go of the pain. Bless you all.
True but it helps getting problems out of the way. And his parent's where not the ones stopping his happiness. It was his own guilt of being weak. So in a way, he just want to prevent kids having the same experience. There is only one person in BTAS that batman really wanted to kill. And it wasn't joker. But someone that abused kids and made them rob for him. Not even Joker would sink that low.
I watched this movie on VHS so many times at my grandparents house back in the early 2000s when I was a kid so this scene is burned into my memory forever. Those thundercrashes lighting up the Wayne Tombstone, Bruce's whole speech about wanting out of the promise he made to his parents, Andrea showing up and embracing him. And that amazing gothic and operatic score playing in the background. Such a beautiful & haunting scene. I miss when kids movies were allowed to take their time and deal with mature themes like this.
Bruce feeling guilty for finally managing to let go of the pain of his parents' deaths, for daring to finally be HAPPY again, demonstrates an understanding of the tragedy of Batman that has NEVER been matched in any other medium.
I really love this movie. Everytime Bruce tried to be happy, something happens, causing him to go back to being Batman. It’s like those events are his parents telling him “Avenge us!” He just can’t get it out of his head. And the whole reason he became Batman in the first place is because he’s trying to get himself killed. That’s why he goes out to fight crime at night, to look for someone who can kill him and reunite him with his parents. This movie shows who Batman really is.
As a teenager I was somewhat unconvinced by this as anything other than Bruce Wayne suffering insanity. Now that I'm in my late 30s, I know *exactly* what this scene is about & how Bruce Wayne feels. Great stuff and very true to life.
@@Jshaw71 The only writers that put this scene together was Paul Dini & Bruce Timm. Two actors I can think of are from the One Chicago universe, are Jesse Spencer & Taylor Kinney, they play Matt Casey & Kelly Severide on Chicago Fire.
@@gibbs615 I think the PTSD within him is too strong to really let go of. Why do you think he became a bitter old man in Batman Beyond before meeting Terry. Bruce with his PTSD is like a person with a deep dive Generational Trauma, that he or she can't let go of.
@@gibbs615 True, but also in Batman: The Brave And The Bold, he didn't really let a lot of people in emotionally, but professionally he did let people in.
I Always Wanted imagine a R-Rated Live Action Film Remake of Batman: Mask Of The Phantasm, but as a Prequel trilogy to Man of Steel (2013) Directed by Zack Snyder, Starring Ben Affleck as Bruce Wayne/ Batman, Jeremy Irons as Alfred J. Pennyworth, J.K Simmons as GCPD Commissioner Jim Gordon, Rebecca Ferguson as Andrea Beaumont/ The Phantasm, James Frain as Arthur Reeves, and Jared Leto as The joker
This scene is why Mask of the Phantasm is the greatest Batman movie of all time. Because it's not a superhero movie, or an action movie, or a cartoon. It's a TRAGEDY.
@@moonborn-musti6051especially since he's helping make Batman Caped Crusader with both Bruce Timm and Paul Dini (Don't know how I feel about JJ Abrams being an authority over it), And they're the minds outside of Alan Burnett and Andrea Romano behind Mask of the Phantasm
Looking back this is more heartbreaking considering what happens to Bruce in his later life. He became much more cold and distant, but he still was a good man who cared about people. Unfortunately his dedication to Batman has alienated him from being happy and with his significant other. Andrea ended up being a Hitman and was even ordered to kill Bruce’s successor’s parents by Amanda Waller. Both of them trapped themselves into their ideas of justice. It’s a shame cause they would’ve had a good life together. At least Bruce does have Terry to take care of him and his legacy is admired, and Andrea chose not to kill Terrys parents and stopped being the phantasm.
What makes this movie so good is that at its core: its two broken people trying to be the piece the other needs to be complete. ... Only to find out their puzzles make two different pictures.
This is the one scene that shows why the other live action depictions of Batman don't pull it for me. Who do you think could be able to pull off this kind of emotion, asking their dead parents for permission to to live a good life, despite the fact that the city you grew up in was what caused their deaths?
I knew about this scene before ever watching the movie, but I watched it for the first time with my friend and he seemed a little bored with it until this scene happen. I remember he audibly said “oh wow” when Bruce said he didn’t count on being happy. He was totally locked in after that
It's very sad to see Bruce Wayne's parents passed away since he was a young child, but he learned how to defend himself and protect his city to become a vigilante known as Batman, the Dark Knight.
I think it's easy to overlook that Bruce Wayne has depression. Sure, he's dressed in all black, being all gloomy and stoic, but he's never been portrayed as the truly grief-stricken child that he is. Yes, Batman is cool and all, but he also always feels horrible. The death of his parents didn't just influence him to become a crime-fighter, it also left him broken inside. The level of impact their deaths brought him isn't as shallow as "sweet, I have an excuse to beat up crooks now, lol!" it's more like "I feel like shit, I feel empty and cold inside, I don't deserve to be happy, some days I want to die and join my parents" and I want to see more of that psychology explored. He is a broken child at the end of the day. Beyond his playboy billionaire Bruce Wayne, the vengeful Dark Knight, deep down he is a broken child. He even highlighted that in his contingency plans for himself, use the death of his parents against him.
I’ve always wished that in some random Batman story, that he could have a real conversation with his parents WHILE he wears the Batsuit and like, his mother and father see their little baby Brucie all grown up as The Batman and theyre happy to see him and they miss him but they’re terrified of the path he’s gone down. They don’t want that life for him, never would’ve dreamt it. But Bruce has met meta humans and has discovered all kinds of criminal elements that his parents never even thought of so they recognize his struggles and tell him that they’re proud but he owes it to himself to find a stopping point.
It hurts so much because all he ever understood for the majority of his life was pain. Then you find out he's willingly hurting himself. Refusing to let go, out of fear that he may move on. That pain is all he has left of his parents, so he holds on to it so tightly. The man who can never be happy, who will never choose happiness. He is a shadow of the world around him, reaching out for something so tangible. So real. But he doesn't even know he can grab it.
That's also like a person who has buttloads of Generational Trauma, and doesn't know how to let it go. Bruce carries that pain because he feels that's all he has, and the sad part is that it's far from the truth.
@@omarcogle1965 hurt people often retreat into what's been lost because it reminds them of what made them feel normal. Bruce is very much the same way. He has all the money in the world, but can't have the thing he wants.
@@GilDice You know the same thing could be said about Sugar Mama from the Proud Family: Louder & Prouder, Abuela Alma from Encanto and Ming Lee from Turning Red. Going on Bruce, depending on adaptations, you could have him as the real person & Batman the mask, or have Batman the real person and Bruce Wayne the mask.
I think it's heavily implied that Bruce believes if he didn't stop being Batman to be with Andrea he could've saved her father as if his parents are punishing him from the grave
First of all, masterful work by the late Mr Conroy. Alfred later drives that point home in regards to Bruce’s parents in the present time. Of course, they would want him to be happy. The one time he believes he’ll be done as Batman for good and able to spend the rest of his life with Andrea, another cog gets added… and it derails the entire “changed plan”.
god this is such a sad scene he is so fucked up about finally finding happiness he is unsure if hes even allowed to and fucking apologizes for being happy
You know, if Nightwing during the New Batman Adventures, went back in time to the flashback scenes in Mask Of The Phantasm, I think he'd be shocked for one, but also, I think he would've been able to forgive bruce for everything sooner.
@@Goaheadandstaymad21332 its not like aminated batman movies are relicpa of the novel without taking liberaties everthing comicbook adapted into film takes some liberties novel somethings pages works better in novel so dont get why you are trashing nolan batman like i said its not like.any aminated batman films are exactly like novel so why are you saying nolan batman is bad batman begins does focus more batman bruce wayne what makes mask of phantasm better than batman begins.
Man, this scene is so well written and acted but I am the only one who thinks that this scene would have a stronger effect on the audience if it would happend at the end of Batman's career?
God: Be a Batman. Bruce: yeah but i can fund programs to help reduce crime. God: Be Batman… Bruce: yeah, but im in love and may want to start a family and life with- God: BE BATMAN!
I think Bruce’s parents would’ve said that being happy is ok and that he is not letting them down I mean every parent wants their child to grow and be happy, Bruce is not disappointing them no parent would ever be disappointed in their kid no matter how bad they are or how dumb their mistakes are, Batman went through way too much
The horrible fact is Bruce Wayne cannot really get Therapy because he would find it near impossible to find someone he could be that open with and not lower his guard. And I don't just mean because being a therapist is a short jump from being a supervillain, Harley Quinn, scarecrow, Hugo strange to name but a few. But with the amount of people whom have betrayed him (two face, hush, Talia et al) and the times villains have gone after people even tangentially close to him means therapy for Bruce Wayne needs to come with a lot of safeguards which realistically would be very difficult to accomplish
@@scapegoatcomics6168 You want to know something crazy though, on Harley Quinn: the cartoon series, Bruce did open up to Harley, and she actually did keep his identity safe, and never told any other villains, even her girlfriend, Ivy his secret.
@@omarcogle1965 I will admit that is a great development, however it's restricted to a irreverent series and not mainline. Don't get me wrong I've nothing negative to say about that series (I should watch it but I've been putting it off). But if we were to take a proper batman in the mainstream and think how can we get him therapy...that will be tricky and that's just covering his Gotham problems....the justice league is a whole other kettle of fish
@@scapegoatcomics6168 True, and I mentioned in another post before, he can open up to Leslie, but I don't think she'd be enough to help him, and she's a Therapist.
Personally I’m afraid to plea for happiness. Yet I think I’ve found the person to make me live on. But honestly do I ask for acceptance or forgiveness at this point?
Mark Hamill will return as Joker in Justice League: Crisis on Infinite Earths - Part 3, according to an IGN report. A source privy to the film's production confirmed Hamill's casting opposite the late Kevin Conroy, who will posthumously return as the voice of Batman. Hamill recently stated it's unlikely that he will ever play Joker again, having committed to only reprise the role if Conroy voices Batman.
I want to weep for poor Batman when he says 'Ill give more money to the city they can hire more cops'.. bargaining with the dead to have his life back.
