Sean Donovan yes actually. This is what the legions did with charging elephants at Zama. Caesar also had the legions deal with elephants in a similar way in North Africa during the civil war, there would have been a Roman drill for it. No question.
Blue Sky Are you talking about the fireballs, or this battle as a whole? Because this battle actually happened. Of course, it didn’t necessarily happen how it was shown here, but the Battle of Teutoburg is well known as one of Rome’s biggest military disasters. The Roman general _neglected to send out reconnaissance_ and due to the efforts of a traitor, three whole legions and their support were caught in the middle of marching through dense forest and nearly wiped out to a man. Nearly 20,000 men dead in a day.
"So we make a movie about Rome" "Ok" "And they all use spears" "A little bit inaccurate but ok" "And then there are giant fireballs rolling in the forest" "Sounds a little bit too massive but still ok" "They don't dodge them" "Bu-" "And they break line when they meet the enemy" "Oh my god!"
that day it was raining and there was wind, wich caused the romans shields to be soaked making them very heavy and nearly impossible to use plus they worked like sails for the wind wich didn't allowed the romans to use their formation to protect properly from the germans that's why they broke formation when the enemy attacked
Rolling Balls of fire are totally inaccurate and i am so tired of seeing those in a movie about romans. Légionnaires with spears agreed, inaccurate too.
@@ivanchristophersaldana119 you're right about the dark age part. Not everyone has gone soft, though. Don't include SOF guys and girls in that category, ever. They do most of the fighting against the evil terrorists in the world now, and I plan on joining along side them in the Army 75th Ranger Regiment and maybe S.F. after that.
haha well that's formation for you, you need discipline to maintain formation, you can't just run everytime enemy or cavalry or chariot or whatever's coming at you, and anything could come at you. and I understand they broke formation fighting, ideally they wouldn't, but that's hollywood for you.
Legionnaires with spears and without pilum. They don't break formation to dodge the flaming boulders but they break formation when enemy ranks engage. This movie is so wrong. That's why scriptwriters always need to hire a historian.
thank you for saying what I was thinking. Terribly bad representation. Even the road is terrible, It is located in the lower part of the terrain surrounded by hills, perfect if you want it to be getting all the water of the terrain and full of mod all the year.
that day it was raining and there was wind, wich caused the romans shields to be soaked making them very heavy and nearly impossible to use plus they worked like sails for the wind wich didn't allowed the romans to use their formation to protect properly from the germans that's why they broke formation when the enemy attacked
@Jose Magana yes they always marched wearing armour, even in friendly territory. In enemy territory they also always marched with their shieds on. They had standardised procedures so we know they always did it in the same way.
Deän Dhadwal no they actually wouldn’t have opened the line for that, bc that shit never really happened to be that big and would easily stop against a shield planted with an around 200Lb man behind it
Huggins1115 your comment made my head hurt. I couldn’t understand what you were trying to say. But a Roman soldier wouldn’t be 200 pounds. The average Roman man back then was 5 foot 5. They ate mostly bread, they’re not linebackers.
The Romans were the best at learning from their defeats. In this battle they learned to their surprise, that "testudo" doesn't perform too well against giant fireballs. Emperor Hadrian, when told about this unstoppable Pictish secret weapon, said: "Well, if a wall of shields can't stop them fireballs, i will build a giant wall of stone whose size the world has never seen!" And this is the true story of why the Hadrian's wall was built.
"In this battle they learned " This battle never happened. It was based on a 19th century theory the 9th Legion disappeared north of the wall because it seemed to disappear from history at that point. So they assumed it was attacked and destroyed. Like Varus's legions in Germania. However, indisputed evidence of the 9th legion Hispana's existence in postings outside britain, AFTER the period it was initially thought lost, were later found. So no, this never happened.
That’s not why lol the Roman’s dominated the picts they marched into Caledonia (Scotland) and defeated them in a few different battles. If they wanted to Rome could have occupied all of the island, the only reason they didn’t was because it wasn’t worth it. Rome ended up building the wall to construct a border to separate administrative lands and barbarian territory.
In real life, most of those guys would have broken formation and moved out of the way just long enough for the fire bails to pass, and then simply went back to their positions. You can't really expect to get anyone with those unless you have overwhelming amounts of them going fast enough down a steep enough slope.
For people who don’t understand FORMATIONS Your packed tightly So having 5 men running while the test behind them are still in formation Means your gonna have a stampede Meaning your causing more problems Rolling balls of Fire are liek elephants You need to see them first And then decide your battle lines You can’t just be ambushed and expect your men to make perfect columns for the balls to go into
..except.. rolling balls of fire were never used. not to mention.. the roman legions were probably the best trained soldiers in the history of the world (when it comes to average soldiers, not special operators), so they most definitely have been trained in how to deal with shit like this
Name of movie is Centurion...I always watched this film in tandem with the movie "The Eagle". Both films tell the story of the ill-fated Roman Ninth Legion in their conquest of Britain.
@Joan LLinàs Bas The unknown fate of the legion has been the subject of considerable research and speculation. One theory (per historian Theodor Mommsen) was that the legion was wiped out in action in northern Britain soon after 108, the date of the latest datable inscription of the Ninth found in Britain, perhaps during a rising of northern tribes against Roman rule. This view was popularised by the 1954 novel The Eagle of the Ninth in which the legion is said to have marched into Caledonia (modern day Scotland), after which it was "never heard of again". This theory fell out of favour among modern scholars as successive inscriptions of IX Hispana were found in the site of the legionary base at Nijmegen (Netherlands), suggesting the Ninth may have been based there from c. 120, later than the legion's supposed annihilation in Britain.[4] The Nijmegen evidence has led to suggestions that IX Hispana was destroyed in later conflicts of the 2nd century. Suggestions include the Bar Kokhba revolt (132-135) or Marcus Aurelius' war against Parthia (161-166) in Armenia.[5] However, some scholars have ascribed the Nijmegen evidence to a mere detachment of IX Hispana, not the whole legion.
@Joan LLinàs Bas No, it wasn t. "Gracias al hallazgo de diversas inscripciones pudo acreditarse que la legión IX (o VIIII, como aparece en los epígrafes) había sido trasladada desde Britannia a los alrededores de Noviomagus, ciudad de los Bátavos (actual Nimega, Holanda), donde estuvo acuartelada al menos hasta 132, cuando fue enviada a Oriente. Tras esa fecha sí se pierde su rastro, por lo que se cree que pudo ser diezmada o aniquilada. Se han sugerido diferentes opciones para ello: en Judea bajo Adriano (años 132-135), en Armenia o en Capadocia en 161, donde Marco Sedacio Severiano fue derrotado por los partos y la legión IX Hispania pudo haber sido totalmente aniquilada4, o durante la invasión de los Chatti. Lo único cierto es que en una relación de legiones de época de Marco Aurelio ya no se la menciona."
@@ryan-peterbotas8689 do "they" Obviously roman citizen legionary's Look like "auxillaries" to you? Also those are pilum... Throwing *SpEaRs* I think you know whats wrong now right?
@@tedm6894 I know but the costume desginer for this film probably saw that a type of roman soldier (aux) historically used them so he probably incorporated them in the soldier's impression. Real pilums for that number of actors would be costly!
When I was a Roman soldier we would stack the shields to make a ramp and the balls of fire would go over us. The other way we fought balls of fire was with corn starch.
"In the chaos of battle, when the ground beneath your feet is a slurry of blood, puke, piss and the entrails of friends and enemies alike, it's easy to turn to the gods for salvation. But it's soldiers who do the fighting, and soldiers who do the dying, and the gods never get their feet wet."
In an open field the Romans were virtually unbeatable. When they were squeezed into a tight spot, the odds go down. That’s why they were attacked in a wooded area. Surprise attack and the Romans were stretched out in a long line.
It would have been amazing for the Centurions to see the fire balls and order their troops to make gaps as they run their shield wall up the hill each way 30 feet.
For hard core history folks, if you want a decent accurate depiction of roman's way of fighting check the Romans fighting the Gauls scene in the tv series of Rome. Might not be perfect and they might not wearing the calssical imperial era equipment, but is the best I can think of.
Yea but that is Caesar in the Gallic wars which was pre-imperial. The time set 58-50 bc most soldiers would be wearing the Lorica hamata, the chain mail as a pose the lorica segmentata the more imperial recognisable roman armour.
Actually the Romans did have saddles on their horses although they were made of wood with four horns, one on each corner. As for spears, the Romans did use spears esp during the early Rebulican era and late Empire era, but this movie looks to be early Empire so a pilum would be the correct weapon.
you forgot the Auxilia Infantry... But again, you're right about the part that they dressed like legionarii, but use triarii weaponry. Other than that, the costume are surprisingly good. And for the four-horned saddle, I digress. Riding like that is not for the actors and actresses that might not ride a horse before. Too risky, training them with stirrup is much less time-consuming and safer to conduct. Too bad the movie storyline is pure craps.... But hey, it's still better than GoT S8.
The legionnaires were extraordinary. They would march up to 30 miles. Stop and do battle or stop and make a camp. Just not any camp, but a fort with dirt walls and a palisade with a ditch. Get up in the morning, tear down the camp and do it all again. Day after day. During the consulship of Caesar, the Legio X formed in Hispania, marched to Gaul. Fought in Gaul. Went to Britannia, twice. Marched into Germanic. After the Gauls were subdued, marched down to Italia for the civil war and chased Ptolemy out. Followed him to Greece and beat him there. Then marched to Egypt. Back from Egypt to Asia Minor (veni, vidi, vici). Back to Italy. Then North Africa to fight Cato and then finally to Hispania to fight Ptolemy sons and Labenius. At the time of Caesar’s death, they were preparing to march to Parthia (Iran). This was over 10 years or so but that’s a lot of boot leather. Our soldiers moan about marching to the range. Where’s the trucks Top? I can think of no other army in history with the discipline, training, strength and endurance of the legionnaires. Spartans, nope!. The phalanx was severely flawed and the Romans had no problem beating their a**.
The fireballs disrupt the Roman formation but for a movie they removed all obstacles to allow a straight run for the camera and dug a shallow trench the length of the roll to run true and predictably. To engineer this in an actual scenario, giving a sphere enough distance to roll downhill and build momentum is required. Enough distance is needed to avoid detection when lit. Constructed runways for the fireballs would be spotted. Ground topography will not be a smooth alley, bowling lanes are flat and true for a reason and the alleys catch wayward shots. Hence most of these balls will roll in chaotic directions. Of course, the standing trees in a random distribution and other forest debris, fallen trees, would make a hit rather difficult. If the fireball gets stuck, it becomes an obstacle for the ambushing force. Doubtful these rugged barbarians could mass produce so many large spheres, huge effort. Large amount of fuel needed to have it burn in a tactically effective way, relying on momentum to crash through the formation, thus lots of weight, harder to manufacture and transport. Not the most practical weapon.
more importantly, you would need some sort of modern fuel like gasoline. Greek fire might do since it was reputed to be incredibly flammable. But regular pine resin or pine pitch won't burn that well. Plus you would have to assemble these spheres on top of the hill you were going to roll them down from, and do it quick enough that you can still coat it with your fuel and light it before the enemy passed through. think that even if such a tactic was possible the men would easy stop the flaming projectiles with their shields or be able to step aside. It would disrupt their formation and cause some burns at worst, but not enough to kill. Unless of course those balls are actually made of something really heavy and not just some dry brush.
You don’t need to be a battle expert to know that: 1. Don’t break formation when you meet the enemy 2. Break formation when a giant ball of fire is coming towards you
I think the idea was that the Romans did not expect the fire balls. When they got hit by them, their formation was broken up, and then the warriors charged in to exploit the gaps.
The closest to compare would be the annihilation of Varus 3 Legions in the Teutoburger Forest, Germany 9 AD. It is doubtful that a commander would enter such difficult terrain stretching his Legions in enemy territory for around 30 km (incl. the baggage train in the case of Varus) without proper reconnaissance by auxiliary units or friendly/allied local forces. Varus was betrayed by Arminius, his German auxiliary commander that plotted such a massive ambush with many local tribes and lured him into the woods, the worst possible location for a Roman Legion to fight since they could not deploy into battle formation. The preparation for such an ambush would possibly not have gone unnoticed as in the case of Varus, he was warned of the betrayal of his most trusted auxiliary commander but did not believe the warnings and marched directly into his doom. It took 3 days to fully annihilate Varus legions. The dead Romans were stripped of anything valuable incl. armors, weapons, food supplies, Gold... many dead were mutilated and those unlucky not to have died in battle sacrificed by Germanic priests or cut down by warriors, especially officers. Varus took his own life with most of his closest commanders to avoid his fate. Arminius survived but was murdered by another German chief 5 years later. Last but not least, the Romans in the movie are wearing plated armor so the time can be traced back earliest around 50 BC to 21 AD, Gaius Marius introduced a large reform to the military issuing the soldiers 2 Pilums (Javelins). After 100 BC all infantry soldiers were using this javelin instead of the spears shown in the clip ;-) Before contact, the Romans would through the javelins towards their enemy and fight with a gladius (short stabbing sword). Even not killing or injuring the foe, the pilum would bend when impacting into the shields so the enemy could not launch it back or keep using his shield for defence.
To add to your point another reason the ambush worked well was because the Germans cut off and separated the legions from the other groups/reinforcements with chopped trees. The tribes new they would be fighting on a time limit and if the Romans regrouped they could turn the tides but ultimately it was in their favor. The surviving Romans ended up building a camp while planning an escape route back to Rome and the Germans new so they surrounded them and waited them out and when they left they ultimately died and lost the battle
The method of ambush is actually reminiscent of the Battle of Teutoburg Forest. The Roman legions were led into a trap and tricked into thinning their ranks to single file along an extended trail. Except in that battle was in Germany and it was the legions slaughtered.
I’ve often wondered at how Roman soldiers, with an average height of 170cm (5’7”) prevailed against often much taller barbarian foes from Northern Europe. I think it was because despite their shorter stature they were physically strong and well conditioned for battle, and because their fighting tactics suited a more compact build, crouched in formation behind large shields and thrusting their stabbing swords at the enemy, rather than fighting in open individual space wielding larger heavier hand weapons like their enemies. It is significant that when caught out of their element and forced to fight in open order, as in the Teuteborg Forest, they were slaughtered. For them, it was important to force battle on their own terms and in doing so, capitalise on the advantage by totally wiping out the enemy rather than just defeating it and allowing it to return another day under less favourable terms. But the physical differences would have become less marked as the Empire expanded and established new territories, as the Romans recruited soldiers from the local populations of conquered lands.
The Roman Legion was a professional standing army, with good training, good equipment, good veteran leadership, and battle hardened. Compared to the Northern European tribes whose warriors were often just villagers armed with whatever they could afford or find, the physical stature would play a very small part. The Teutoburg was a different situation as a whole because the ambush was set up by Arminius, who was a German hostage in Roman service and was trained in Roman Legion tactics since a young age. The battle also took place on a long thin winding road where the Legion was in a long strung out marching formation rather than open battle formation, where the tactics and maneuverability of the Legion would win the day. In the end, the reason the Legion was such a powerhouse was due to professional soldiers often fighting against tribal warriors, where cohesion, leadership, tactics, and experience will almost always win out. You'll often find when the Legion was fighting barbarians tribes they would almost always win, but when the Legion was fighting against other professional or semi-professional armies, they would sometimes struggle, specifically against Eastern enemies whose tactics were on the other spectrum of combat, like the Parthians and Sassanids whose cavalry heavy armies would often win or cause heavy casulaties against the Roman's slow, methodical, heavy infantry based, legions.
@@charlesneilley5025 As the Empire expanded, the Roman Army recruited from the locals in its conquered territories, which included large parts of central Europe, where people were generally taller.
@@reynaldoflores4522 True. They were professionals with discipline & training and they fought as a unit with a system. The Gladius was short and worn high so could be drawn with either hand whilst holding the shield, & the Romans understood that a tab wound if only a couple of inches deep in the right place would be fatal, so they could thrust at a faster rate, coordinated with shield protection. Each man fought for a limited period before falling back & being replaced by a fresh soldier in the rank behind so they could maintain the intensity as the enemy became exhausted. Before close combat, the spears (pilus) were thrown, sticking into enemy shields & making them useless. Even the HO nailed sandals were used to good effect as the fighting formation advance,, trampling the fallen & dying enemy warriors underfoot. It was an incredibly well planned and efficient killing machine.
Imagine being a Germanic tribesman never seeing a Roman legion before… and being absolutely terrified as rows of silver demons march towards you while feather devils ride beasts three times your size.
Yes I remember the gore content. I was sitting in the cinema with my best guy friend watching this, surrounded by legions of men and me the only female LOL
The ppl in the comments complaining it's historically inaccurate for the Romans not to just step out of the way also don't seem to realize that Zama was 300 years before this haha
If they were marching through hostile territory, they'd have flankers out ahead of the column on both sides, the cohorts wouldn't await the assault, they'd hurl javelins and attack covered by sling-stone fire. The Imperial Legion was a killing machine, that was filled with veteran troops who had plenty of experience dealing with ambushes on the march.
@Paul Fletcher and at the battle of culloden half the British army was made up of Scottish regiments such as the Scots greys cavalry who absolutely slaughtered the Jacobite's
The Britons called the Romans "the Little People" both as an identifier & as an insult. The Britons said the average Roman was 5'5'' - 5'8' - and the average Briton was 5'8'-6'2" and much bigger in structure. The Romans HATED the British Isles and Judea - the Roman Legions called the British Isles and Judea the 2 arm pits of the world. This movie scene could easily be The Battle of the Teutoburg Forest of September 9AD where "Bloddy Varus" met his end. Betrayed by Germani Chieftains Arminius & Segimer, whom he trained and they had seen him use the same tactics, so they defeated Varus and destroyed 3 full Legions and an Auxillary Legion = 24, 000 Soldiers. {Varus' forces included his three legions (Legio XVII, Legio XVIII and Legio XIX), six cohorts of auxiliary troops (non-citizens or allied troops) and three squadrons of cavalry (alae).} A Roman Legion had 6,000 Legionaries at this time period. Great Scenes and movie - Thank you for posting. Peace & Health
Yes but that 9 AD ambush lasted many days and the terrain as well as weather was against as they were practically stuck in the mud and wet as hell also Varus was an idiot and didn't follow the advice of many warnings of this ambush that could've been easily avoided. This is more closer to the ambush during the Boudica revolt in the first century AD when the entire IX Legion Hispania was almost completely destroyed and defeated in an ambush by Iceni as well as other tribes.
I don't know when this movie takes place, but the title "centurion" implies after the Marian Reforms. The Auxilia should have spears, but those are Legionaries
@@pyroparagon8945 This movie I think is supposed to resemble the Ninth Legion which according to myth just disappeared one day (I forgot when) as they are in Britain.
Alright, the Roman Legionnaire armor looks excellent. Shields look fine. The Pilla look like shit. They don't throw the Pilla. They should have before drawing the Gladius. The Roman Legionnaires did not use spears post-Marian. The Auxiliaries could have, but they wouldn't be grouped with Legionnaires and they wouldn't be wearing Legion armor. Recurve bows weren't used by Europeans at this time. They would've used slings or makeshift bows. Edited for grammar.
Allí no hay una legión, habrá como mucho 7 o 8 centurias y solo se ve un legado (el que dicen que es su general), sin tribunos, centuriones u optios, esenciales en la legión. Asimismo, tendrían que ir tres o 4 escuadrones de caballería auxiliar o romana en vanguardia acompañada por ingenieros haciendo de exploradores para evitar emboscadas como esta al estilo Teotoburgo. Por lo demás, la panoplia no está tan mal y la disciplina en la marcha también. En lo que respecta a legiones, Hollywood siempre ha huido de la histografía fiel por razones desconocidas
Tienes muchísima razon, la falta de centuriones y optios es alarmante, que rompan formación en cuanto entran en contacto con el enemigo es una completa tontería. ¿Mantener la formación para las bolas de fuego pero romper formación al tener contacto con el enemigo? Tontería.
6 месяцев назад
Burning balls of fire were a problem in many armies.Thats why proper medical checks in the brothels were essential.
the production team decided to give the Romans long spears instead of the pilae (pilums?) and, when it came to close quarter duels, the majority of them inexplicably dropped their shields and forget their unit cohesion so the enemy would have a fighting chance.
Amigo los legionarios no usaban lanzas para eso busca hoplitas por esa razón usaban pilum ya ensima en parte con la lluvia en los escudos estaban pesados casi ni se podía usar
Let's just pretend this Roman General had a fondness for stabbing spears and decided to arm his men with them since the Britons had a fondness for cavalry.
@@javierarias2276 Nah, it's from the film Centurion whilst Agricola is in Britain. Don't think I know of any Roman films which actually depict Teutoburger.
@@greysson2933 I saw some recreation of Teutenberg in soem of the History Channel documentaries....Nor sure about proper entertainment picture either......well..Gladiator gives a decent glimpse into what that could be like from an aesthetica point of view, I guess, even if the result is totally different
The barbarians had cleverly realized that Roman soldiers are poor fighters, trained to fight in specific formations and support each other. So, if you can break the formation, you have a significant advantage if you are individually better fighters. Although, this was somewhat made up for in Rome's metallurgy.
Roman warmongers don't like forest, Roman warmongers don't like mountains, Roman warmongers don't like box canyons, Roman warmongers don't like bogs, that's why my people still have our ancient names :)
This Battle looks more like the Battle of Teutoburg forest than any of the campaigns in Caledonia (Modern Day Scotland) since Romans pretty much kicked the Caledonians' asses. They just weren't incorporated to the empire because by the time of the victory generals like Agricola gets recalled back to Rome and Emperor Septimus got sick and his son had more pressing matters to attend to in Rome.
The Roman system provided sufficient flexibility to adequately deal with this scenario: 30 seconds to watch fireballs gentle down a hill? Change the formation out of the column. No problems. Additionally, the legion is armed with thrusting spears and not pilum. Unlikely in the second century CE. Finally, I’m pretty sure the Prima Pilus did not ride at the head of the legion on March. He would have been on foot with the rest of the squaddies.
i get what your saying but 1 thing you forget is the leader of the rebellion was a high ranking member of the roman army plus the german soilders in the roman army turned on them
fun fact: that day it was raining and there was wind, wich caused the romans shields to be soaked making them very heavy and nearly impossible to use plus they worked like sails for the wind wich didn't allowed the romans to use their formation to protect properly from the germans that's why they broke formation when the enemy attacked.
