BS Speaker Sensitivity Ratings and "Dynamics" 

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As soon as I saw the title, I knew this was going to point out Klipsch as crazy ratings

I remember when I first started designing speakers as a hobbyist, I kept despairing because I couldn't figure out why my designs weren't producing the same types of sensitivity numbers as other brands. I started looking at more objective reviews such as yours and realized that the real reason I couldn't get similar results was because other companies were full of crap! 😂😂😂

This man should be in the top 10 audio channels

I can imagine manufacturers 'hesitate' to advertise their real numbers in order to stay competitive with brands that provide very optimistic numbers. I've seen many topics where people prefer and advice certain speakers just because of this high sensitivity. Cheers to Erin (and other critical sites) for bringin' the truth and unmasking some sketchy business. 👌

This is a NECESSARY COMMUNITY SERVICE!!! 👏 Thanks, Erin!!

Thanks for bringing the truth, Erin. Manufacturers do the same thing with F3 and F10 numbers.

You mean manufacturers exaggerate their specs to better market their products? I am appalled! Look at my hand clutching these pearls! 😄Great video, man.

I see a speaker with a 6 inch woofer in a bass reflex cabinet claiming + or - 3db from 40Hz to 20 Khz and a sensitivity of 95 db. I know that has to be a lie I could not see how that would work without horn loading. I am Glad to see your video and learn that I was right. Thank you.

Top drawer no bullshit video. Erin delivers again. Thankyou. Keep up the great work.

Standardization of measurements is what makes comparisons possible. At least Klipsch tells you how they're not standardized. In all events, excellent work and much needed work once again!

Thanks Erin. I bought the revel 226be based on your review and a short listen at a dealer. I couldn’t be happier. You are by far the best speaker reviewer on RU-vid.

Hi Erin, If you think you have trouble with manufactures specs on speakers, have some sympathy for me and my channel! I deal mostly with amplifiers. How about this rating? Manufactures spec 300 watts my tested results 65 watts. An over simplification I know but you get the point!

Yup, this has always been one of the most confusing specs whenever I go comparing speakers between different manufacturers, to the point that it almost feels meaningless. There’s just no consistency between the manufacturers at all. There really needs to be a (de facto) standard set in the industry.

It is good to have the real numbers, especially if you are using them to figure out how much power you need to hit reference levels. With Klipsch, you will be off by at least 4x power wise. Yikes! The other thing to keep in mind if you are trying to do the calculation, is the 2.83v = 1 watt in to 8 ohm speakers, it takes 4v to = 1 watt in to 4 ohm speakers. So you can pretty much knock down the sensitivity rating a bit more on 6 ohm and lower rated speakers. At least the range you use is generally out of the high impedance range resulting from box tuning. Thank God for small favors 🙂

Thanks Erin. I had no idea that there wasn't a standard that sensitivity was measured by across manufacturers. Great info for the masses!

Great insight! I love the fact you present data and especially comparisons not available elsewhere.

You give us graphs and talk about what you are seeing. You are straight with us if the speaker is good or bad

Kudos to Erin's Audio Corner for posting this and naming names of some of the culprits. This has become an issue in the industry, for example, John Devore of Devore Fidelity has decried the industry's lack of standards for speaker efficiency and the dubious nature of some manufacturer's claims. This is a prime example of why person's claiming measurements don't tell us anything about how a speaker will perform are full of crap; that would be you, Steve Guttenberg.

I was going to post Klipsch is known for this but that mountain in the middle on you graph said it all

Yea you nailed it and I appreciate you and your honesty and speaker measurements I have not bought a set of speakers that didn’t require power. I have a set of speakers that are vintage speakers and I am so pleased with them and I have a set of vintage speakers that cost 3 times the price but I need 1000 watts to wake them up and I have cheap Polk Audio I would rather use , but I have a couple sets of DCM from the original speakers and I will have to say that I like them a lot and they told me that they are only 88db and no more but they sound great.

Thank you Erin for getting this information together. I bought a pair of the Klipsch RP600M's about 3 years ago. There was a lot of hype about these speakers and a friend recommended them to me. I had heard that Klipsch over rates their speaker sensitivity but didn't think it was that far off. BTW, Jamo is pronounced Ya-Mo, not Jam-O.

This is a very informative video. It clears up some things for me. Thanks Erin !!

I'm glad this topic was brought up and explained, so everyone can be aware that the numbers most/some manufacturers supply to the public is either outright wrong or misleading.Measured by peaks/ low-points and not on average..or they only give us numbers at a specific frequency..well I don't listen to just one frequency lol. It friggin irritates me..and it's not just speakers. It's all very misleading and we the consumer have to find out the hard way after we've spent our hard earned dollars. This is why 2nd and 3rd party testing is so important to us...real numbers in real world applications. How these numbers were determined I think Erin said, at least this should be added when giving us the specs from the manufacturer.

Erin is going the lord's work.

That thumbnail 😅😭🤣. " It was determined that was a lie". Best thumbnail ever 😭🤣😅

This is so insightful & valuable. Thank you for sharing your data and explanations on this stuff. any experience with Tekton's speakers? I'm looking at them to pair with low-ish tube amps. Would be curious if they are shining us in Klipsch-like fashion...

This reminds me of the old days when some unscrupulous manufacturers rated amplifiers in ridiculous myriad ways, like "music power", some of them into absurd impedance loads and totally ignoring distortion, sometimes combining multiple channels. It was only after consumers complained that we got a standard of RMS power per channel at, say, 1% THD. So some manufacturers used to rate eg. a 40W RMS per channel amp at like 1000W "music power" (and they didn't tell you that's at 10% THD into 2 ohms, combining 2 or 4 channels, for 1 ms).

Thanks for your information, Erin I Concur. In a way that's like Car Companies, with their Gas Mileage Range Rating's. ⛽

Boom! Well done Erin! Maybe you can tackle the inconsistencies in F3 and F10 measurements next!

I simply love this channel.

Really helpful information, thanks.

bro you're doing the lord work for the audiophile community!

You have def earned a "sorry not sorry" attitude with regards to this. Epic transparency and honesty, you own a fucking klipple for crying out loud. These manufactures must know they cant keep getting away with this shit. Cheers bud!

Good job Erin. Appreciated.

Your words are pure truth, and I as a person who has been in business for many years, I know very well that almost all manufacturers consider the sale of their goods to be the main goal, and therefore they resort to tricks and deceit, this is normal for them, unfortunately...

Well said Erin, the despite the fantastic progress that manufactures have made during the 50 years that I have been interested in the world of HiFi, I find it disturbing that they struggle to be clear about their claims, seemingly embracing the megaphone of marketing and the obscuration and folk law proliferated by forums pushing and amplifying their message whilst branding those who seek the truth to be the lost souls. I cringe when I hear the expression "I don't need measurements, I trust my ears".

Great video Erin, thank you! Another way to look at it: If you are testing 2 pairs of speakers at home, don't forget to volume match them! 🤘😎

Thanks for covering this when no one else has. One normally purchases an amp based on speaker sensitivity, so if a speaker is out by 3db, amp might end up being the wrong choice. Magico suck with their sensitivity claims and one wonders about other stuff

Great channel here. Thanks for your test and review efforts.

Hi, how do we measure sensitivity of a speaker driver that has no enclosure? do we need to play it free air? or we have to make a box for it?

Thanks for the video. Can you tell the difference between the Emotiva T2+ and B1+ in your measurements and the manufacturer's specs? Thanks in advance :) Great video as usual.

Great video, how do you feel about the NHT super zero's? Im guessing I have the original a-450's?

My Paradigm 95F's are rated at 94/91dB room/anechoic per their own tech specs, which I appreciated seeing prior to purchase. And they sound fantastic! I'd love to see a 3rd party number like yours for them... Thanks!

Surprised how little standardization there is in this industry, its very sad.

Amazing subject, thank you so much! In room responses is just not honest from a manufacture in my opinion, I didn't even consider that option in the beginning looking at Klipsch, and was trying to understand how they where able to dodge Hofmanns iron law and in general physics.

I own a pair of Sansui SP1200 from 1973 and even back then the company provided an on-axis measurement on the brochure along with distortion measurements, this is way before computers became a thing. If a company does not at the very least provide these two then you should take your money elsewhere. It’s literally the bare minimum.

Luckily for me, I am male and instinctively overcompensate for everything from hrspwrs to watts

In the '70ies and 80'ies most cimpanies gave exact efficiency figures : kef , rogers, tannoy, jbl, focal, cabasse, philips, isophon, grundig, altec, onken, goto, beyma, rcf, fane...etc....

Erin!! On the topic, even though you haven't measured yet, have you heard the PSA MT-110s? They seem to check a lot of the right boxes for home theater. I'm looking for sealed, high sensitivity, not insane prices (I'd get the JTR monitors if I could afford them)

Very informative post Erin.. Excellent.

What specs and design factors impact speakers that sound good at lower listening (60-75dB)?

can you measure the speakers - magnate lcr 100 THX. I'm wondering whether to buy the rest for home theater or replace it with -monoprice thx-465iw

Great information!

Some say that 2.83V is a misleading ref, you should use 1watt, as this accounts for impedance differences rather than assuming constant 8 ohms. So the 2.83V figure is usually a couple of db higher than the 1 watt figure.

Do I further need to adjust the 2.83v number based on impedance? like -3dB if it's 4ohm? or is that okay because 2.83 is gain and not power?

Love your videos. I have begun the rabbit hole of sound quality for auto and home theater about a year ago. Your videos have helped tremendously. This video really hit home as I begin looking for an improvement for my home theater left, right, and center. Do you have a list of speakers that you recommend me looking into? I would love to see speaker lists for this situation, but also other speaker lists for people who have different needs and budgets for audio. When I scroll the speaker reviews, it is overwhelming since I don't know which speakers are lowered priced and which speakers can sound good without external amplification. I am using a Yamaha RX-V679 receiver. No pre outs. No external amplifiers. I measured the left speaker to be at 21 vrms before clipping, which is around 75 watts for 6ohm. I have a large living room and sit 14 feet from the speakers. I currently have the Sony sscs3 tower for left and right. I have the matching center and surrounds. I have come to realize they just don't sound good compared to the upgrade I completed in my car this year. The Yahama receiver does have pEQ, but it is preset frequencies, so I cannot fine tune. This did help the sony speakers tremendously, but I'm still not satisfied with overall sound. I do have the BIC 12" sub, which I purchased before I saw your review. I used a minidsp with the sub, and that made a tremendous difference in response, impact, and integration with the sonys. Your video on sub placement was a big help. I also watched your center channel video, and I saw the same dips in the Mid range as you showed when I tested over the weekend. I would like to get a three way center as you mentioned, and left and right that are similar in sound. Thanks for all your work.

Thank you.

Sorry I should have left this on the older video, but I just remembered I had this question now. I noticed in the Linton and Model 5 vid, for the MD relative to the fundemental, they had different values. Like the linton was graphed at 1.22, 3.3, and 8.95; and the model 5 was graphed at 1.53, 4.16, and 11.26. Is there any reason for that? does that mean they can't be compared apples to apples? Regarding sensitivity, yeah I never take the manufacturers numbers that serious.

With regards to horn speakers measuring 2pi sensitivity is correct because that is the point of horns to direct the sound at the listener,not the walls.😮

What about amplification topography ? How does that affect sensitivity? I would think that Class A amplifiers may provide higher levels at various frequencies. Am I wrong?

Erin - I have a question - how do I set the volume level to be at 2.83V? And doesn't the speaker impedance have a large effect on the output? Because the sensitivity *used* to be 1 watt; and now it is 2.83V.

Erin, have you seen "Torque Test Channel" here on youtube? They have come up with a clever ranking chart design to rate tools. Part of it is rating actual performance vs rated performance, and actual performance vs price. It would be interesting to see something like that with speakers.

Thanks!

I was planing on buying a set of pure audio project trio 15s that are stated @96db - you think thats a true statement. I wonder has anyone tested them? Do you know of any speakers that could work well with a 45 tube amp?

There are some speaker that are made with the Sensitivity or Efficiency not written in dB but written only like 1.8 Watt or 2.5 Watt. What does that mean , what is their sensitivity in dB then ?

Ever tested a Ciare HW321 driver? 93db@1w/1m, would love to know how accurate it is

Great vid, thanks. Please keep up efforts to bring some honesty into how audio products are measured and promoted.

2.83V @1m @ what frequency?? Voltage reading might be different at different frequencies which can be taken advantage of.

Trust no one....but me ... And a few select others. Sad that this is where the industry has gone.

Well, I'm glad Stereo Integrity is giving correct measurements for their drivers based on your review of the M3 Carbons. Hopefully you will measure their new 8" driver when it comes out. The 8" drivers you reviewed so far are just meh 😕 for what I'm looking for.

That chart is awesome!, but with the labels at an angle it is hard to see what bars line up with what labels. So if you post this table I'd suggest helping me line it up with a dotted line or change the orientation.

Talk about lack of info. I thoroughly enjoy my Emotiva speakers, but I have to wonder why they do not print the impedance of the speaker on the speaker. It wouldn't hurt to have all of the factory specs printed on the speaker. Maybe Emotiva is just that high on the Audiophile ladder. But, hey I can always the "as tested" specs on a speaker from Erin. Thank you Erin!

Klipshe ratings on Pro Audio setups (ex: any of those massive horn loaded home audio systems) are absolute when it comes to SPL @ 1m/1w. You can also read the spectrum. Thats speakers from the $2500 to $15k.

I kind of attribute good dynamics, albeit anecdotally, to a high QMS, and to linear BL and KMS curves up to some target SPL for general listening, action movies, whatever, and the used x-over settings for the drivers, so basically high xmax in short. Can they get high linearity in the motor and suspension AND get high sensitivity and mechanical efficiency? I've had good success with higher QMS for stuff that's more effortless and transparent, but it's no guarantee at all. Some say that stuff doesn't matter and that motor strength WAY out paces mechanical efficiency. The other factor I've generally found is cone material can play a somewhat moderate role in the bite/level of detail it can do. For example poly cones are always soft in detail. Some play with a thicker foam sandwich type of construction to bring up rigidity in a poly setup, but detail tends to follow the aluminum cones and the composite cones most specifically. It's not specifically dynamics, but it is level of detail, edge of note, bite, articulation, whatever you want to call it which will give you a little more amplitude and bite to the notes. But I've also used aluminum cone subs that were as thick as mud and a foam poly cone with good detail. Subs are one thing, but higher frequency drivers are far more sensitive to cone material choice. A fiber tweeter will never sound like a metal tweeter. Personally, I've never really cared much about sensitivity of a driver. The only time I care is when I'm trying to pair a 2-way or 3-way together and want to stay with a simple off the shelf x-over for ease. I want very close sensitivity and a LOT of linear frequency overlap across the x-over range. Power is cheap, as the old saying goes. However, low sensitivity does require high thermal handling. If you do want to play with a low sensitivity driver, it better have a pretty high wattage rating. Double the wattage only gets you 3dB, so it quickly gets really, really hard to catch up to a sensitive driver when the other driver is way out of sync. An example is Vifa's little 3.5" TG9 mids. They're a great little speaker, but their sensitivity is terrible and power handling low. They take so much attenuation just to pair with any average tweeter or midbass. The SPL graph doesn't represent reality well on them, and they're so quiet. I ran this for a while in an active setup with dedicated amps and level controls and had to get rid of it because it was so limiting. I bumped up in size too, not as good for off axis but better for pairing with an 8" midbass. I'm now using Peerless' Tymphany 5.25" NE149W instead in my passive home setup, and it's such an upgrade and far easier to pair. The SPL graphs show similar SPL too, but they're wildly different in reality. At some point you just can't give a low sensitivity driver enough power to compensate or risk burning them up.

Is there, on your web page, this Sensitivity graph?

can you provide all of us that chart of rated v. actual sensitivity?

a on axis frequency response at one meter 2.83 volt(and the ohm graph is usually overlaid right on there), says a lot and are less confusing than a lot single numbers. you get sensitivity out of it or at least sense of loudness. you see the bass extension, you see the ohm load, and more just from one graph. the only thing those marking specs get right are: price, weight, dimensions, color, and you get my point.

WHere can we find this graph

I checked out how PSB advertises their sensitivity and they do it the letter. PSB uses anechoic (1W (2.83v)@1m IEC filtered Pink Noise, C-weighted) They then provide a typical room sensitivity which is 2db higher which makes sense.

Erin, Understand how to use REW + mic but how do we know we're outputting 2.83v from our amps?

Can you do a video on measuring axis response using REW. Please

Would love to see a review of the NHT C LCR Center Channel, seems like it might be a contender for a decent sub $500 center speaker.

1:02 hey, that's great - let's save money not damping enclosure resonances, take the peak of the worst resonance as our sensitivity value, and we have an ultra loud ultra cheap speaker! It's magic, I tells you!

Dynamics - Take so many things to get right in the car - It took me like 10 years to get there

7:32 very important question, not cynical at all imo. If you really check, you will more often than you expect find that what you assumed true / correct is in fact not. Your method is thorough - props. I would also strongly suggest adding the voltmeter used to determine the usual 2 / 2,83V into the equation, especially if it indeed measures Vrms, or Vavg.

I totally buy that Klipsch is bumping their numbers significantly. That's odd coming from a company that says their motto is "No Bull Shit." With that being said, at Audio Advice Live, their demo of the Cornwalls on a Teac 70wx2 amp was one of the best demos of the show, IMHO. I was so impressed I think that's my next buy, amp and all.

I love high sensitivity and no less than 8 Ohm speakers. And for me, this has always been another reason that I only consider speakers stated by the manufacturer to be 95 dB+ and 8 Ohm because I know that manufacturers inflate their numbers.

Kudos to you, Erin. I also am so tired of all these audio equipment manufacturers hiding product truths from consumers who actually care how they are spending their money! Someone needs to kick these guys in the a$$. Thank you, my friend! 👏👨🏻

Surely the better quality manufactures have not stooped this low. Even lower end Japanese manufactures. I mean in the $300/pr range +

Please review PSA speakers

What you got there in the background? 😜 something good hopefully!

Many speaker companies hope customers are ignorant of Hoffman's Iron Law and will swallow a claim of 35 hz from a 3 cubic foot box and a sensitivity of 100db.

My Martin Logan 60XTs have the following: Sensitivity: 94dB/2.83 volts/meter (91dB/1W/meter. Home Theater Review comes in at 90.6db/1W which seems on what you're saying seems to acceptable if I understand what you are saying in your video.

In fairness to Klipsch, the corner horn really must be measured in room since it uses the walls. One can see them continuing to do this with the Heresy and Cornwall. No real excuse for them to do this with their discount line though.

If you measure from 300hz that will include most speakers baffle step, which is generally not fully compensated for an anechoic environment (with good reason). That could pull the average down a bit. I'd probably look at 1khz-5khz or in that range.

It looks like some manufacturers use the sensitivity of their drivers in box WITHOUT CROSSOVER to "lie" without lying because the components indeed have claimed sensitivity. A bit like Gross and Net Horsepower at the wheels in cars.

A few commenters, myself being the most vocal, commented and offered their objections to Erin's insistence that sensitivity should be quoted at constant 2.83V rather than 1W as used to be the case for all manufacturers until the CTA changed its standard. The AES hasn't though, according to a Pro commenter, and in the Pro world 1W is commonly used as well as by many respected high-end manufacturers most of them British. I believe this is a topic that should be discussed in a future video because there are pros and cons to each approach and the audience should be made aware about the difference because it affects their buying decisions. Erin should not be hiding behind a standard or behind what appears more scientific and should consider the repercussions of such a standard with regards to the buying public. After all we are talking about consumer product specs not about a scientific diatribe. I am sure Erin cares about the buying public, hence his channel, so I believe he should consider this issue in a more broad manner. I feel strongly about this since it is the only point which leaves something to be desired out of this fine video.

how is that room an anechoic chamber? unless you are measuring spl outside in the open.

I've learned that the SPL at Xmax derived from displacement at Xmax * cone area is pretty much all I care about when selecting drivers. Assuming most drivers can reach Xmax within their power rating ( some with weak motors can not, Dayton). I try to build a balanced system where the max SPL of the woofer, midrange and tweeter are pretty close to the same. The dynamic compression measurements you make are actually important for the linear dynamic range of the speaker. Amplifier power is so inexpensive, sensitivity just doesn't matter to me. I build modern powered speakers with an amp channel for each driver and a digital crossover. Have you read Current-Driving Of Loud Speakers by by Esa Meriläinen? I highly recommend it. He gives an excellent review of the physics and electrical characteristics of speaker drivers and how best to drive them. Spoiler, it's not a low impedance voltage source.