Not boring , more like relaxing and interesting . Good commentary and nice to hear the work instead of music . I've got a 69 Victor and a 72 BSA B50 . Love these singles . :)
I had a 1971 BSA B25 Starfire back in the day reg. XKE 41J, purchased brand new from Schweiso Bros in Dartford, Kent in the UK. I had nothing but problems with it due to non existent quality control at the time at BSA and the complete lack of interest by Mr Overhill who was the Service Manager at Schweiso's in doing any warranty work on faulty machines within the 3 month warranty period that came with new BSA motorcycles. His actual words to me a 16 year old kid after my engine had seized solid after only 900 miles was 'fuck off'. Obviously I soon learned how to rebuilt the engine myself, the problem with my bike was a manufacturing fault and I bet Overhill knew that and had seen plenty of others with similar problems, the rotten bastard.
You sir are the micheal angelo of old brit bikes!!!,it was a honour and a privilege to watch you ,thankyou My old step dad had the same knowledge as you ,thanks again !!!!! Brit bikes forever !!!!!
Thanks, watching you work on British motorcycles makes me reminisce and long for my BSA Spitfire, but that was fifty years ago. I always thought the BSA's were beautiful bikes. Thanks again. I enjoy your commentary and sense of humor.
I must concur with the other comments made good work and enjoy hearing a little bit of background information about your daughter and interesting tutorial on engine installation and assembly thank you
Excellent explanation and vid, Michael. Thanks for the guidance. I took my 441 barrel off today with the engine still mounted and low and behold I did not have to file off a bit of the fin as you explain. I did have to give the barrel a bit of a twist as I tilted it forward up near the frame but the bugger came off ok. Not believing my luck, I reversed the process and put it back on and promptly removed it again. Painless. But, I was surprised to see that the piston pin circlips had no holes for circlip pliers. I figured it out, got it done but did not like the process one bit. Thanks again...Dave in Canada.
Fascinating video, really enjoyed it, A mate of mine had a 441 Victor back in 1973 and he became an excellent mechanic as he fixed it so many times LOL, luckily a very simple design.
That's exactly it. No plastic pigs, no cruisers or bobbers. What I had, what I rode and what I fixed for myself in the 60s and 70s. There is nothing wrong with nostalgia.
Thank you so much for this "top end dodge" I forgot to add the 5/16" studs to the cylinder before I buttoned all up. I dreaded having to remove the engine again.
A very timely thing, finding your video on the B44 as I just purchased one today, along with a B25 which was malingering in the back of the fellow's garage as I didn't have the heart to leave it there. I've always been tinkering with British bikes but these will be my first singles so you can count on me as a new fan. Thanks for all the great information. Tim.
A trick I have used in the past is removing the cylinder studs, stick your gasket and or compression plate to either the cylinder or crankcase with jointing or grease, fit the barrel onto the piston but don't seat it onto the crankcase yet, slot each cylinder stud through the holes in the barrel, if it gets a little awkward you can turn the barrel to get enough room to slot each stud down its hole in turn. Carefully locate each stud with the base gasket and screw them back into to crankcase. you can then tighten them with 2 head nuts tightened together. The head alone should then go on and you can do the stud removal trick again to fit the rocker box.
Thanks Michael, you are a wealth of information, keep up the good work, I will keep watching, I don't often have anything to say that may not be a bad thing. All the best.
Yuengling Black & Tan, brewed in Pottsville, Pennsylvania, U.S.A. Removing the studs and installing the Heli-coils would be a good thing to do. Not only would it enable you to use Allen bolts, the coils themselves would keep the threads in the aluminum from stripping out. Excellent tips!
Tanks for the video as I have alot of c15 and b40 I always heiced coil the rocking box bolts and put in allen screws it good find new ways of doing things . you are in winter land we have had 2 weeks of over 30 deeg c . thank for the video and keep them coming vik
Dear Michael, I have an extra tip for you, concerning a stuck barrel removal. When the unit singles have been off road - mud and grunge gets into the barrel fins and jam up the head studs. I managed to remove 3 of the 4 studs - but the barrel still refused to come off even using heat and WD40!!! I was worried about damaging the fins So I made up a plate (well a ring spanner) with 2 bolts an large washers to catch the top fins - then rotated the crank so the domed piston carefully hit the ‘plate’ until the barrel lifted !!
Clever, there is always a way. On the Sunbeam S7/S8 the head bolts point down so you can use the nuts on a plate between the barrel fins to push the head up.
Put a touch of grease on your finger tip! I thought only harley mechanics had to make their own wrenches. Thanks for showing this. Wish I still had my Victor, gave it away over forty years ago.
Dear Michael, love your channel. In my early 20s I had a Honda CL350. Very pedestrian and not at all cool. My biking buddy had a '73 ('71?) Triumph Bonneville. We had lots of great times wrenching on and riding those bikes. But I must tell you I have never lusted after Japanese bikes the way I do for British ones. Cherrio!
I am the same way only my affliction is with Moto Guzzi in general and Italian bikes specifically. Although i must admit to owning a '73 Triumph Trophy Trail 500 twin that i bought new when in my early 20's.
Had a 441 in the early 80s but went on a date with it and the ameter cut out the main circuit and left us stranded. Killed my prospects. Fun bike though. Great video.
Never use the type of gudgeon pin circlips that have ears on high rpm engines as they tend to come out of their groove and then destroy the piston and cylinder bore, in any case always make sure that gudgeon pin clips are strongly sprung into their grooves and position the gap in the clip either facing straight up or straight down. Clips are springs and at certain critical speeds start to resonate, when clips have ears the extra mass concentrated near the gap in the clip seriously reduces the speed of the resonant frequency.
Hello again , in 1971 i bought a new B50 T , the pre-service mechanic told me the engine was making too much valve clatter . He removed the rocker box and was removing the valve rockers to grind a little off therm because they were hitting the valve collets . I've always wanted to pass this on before i do , so there , i hope it helps .
In 1976 I had a B25 Starfire that went quite well - but all my mates had Bonnies etc so I had to cain it a bit to keep up. Result was the bloody head gasket was always blowing which necessitated having to carry spanners to re-tighten the head and adjust the tappets..... so I fitted two head gaskets and self- amalgating tape around the whole thing to seal it ! I then passed me test and bought an 850 Mk3 Commando to leave me mates behind..... the B25 is the bike that taught me how to mend bikes as it was always going wrong...... the gear change camplate spring was a leaf spring that broke and stuck the bike in two gears at once - layshaft bearing collapsed and ruined the cases. Me Norton had a layshaft bearing collapse and stuffed the gearbox case - twice - as well .... Ahh the good ol' days...... The Beeza's oil pump drive worm gear faied as well resulting in a holed piston......
Nice video Mike. Thanks for that. I'm just finishing a Victor Special that I'm returning to the road. You're right....the engine is lump to fit carefully fully built up! I didn't realise there was a problem with head & barrel removal with it in the frame.... Anyway... Looking forward to viewing your other videos. Cheers!
I managed to get the top end off in frame without removing rocker box studs or grinding fins by removing the front engine bolt and lower mounting stud, loosened the rear bolt and the front of the engine tipped down just enough for clearance. Mine is a 1970 Shooting Star.
Hello Vincent. I am sure that there are several more ways to do it as well. It just makes you wonder why the original designers never thought about maintenance work when they were sitting at their drawing boards. Thanks for watching.
My first bike Victor 441. I was just 14 and dad said when I can start it I could ride it. Ten months later and a few pounds heavier, I did it. Dad was proud and mom was terrified!
I have met a number of people who say the B44 was a terrible bike because they would never start, and it is always because they didn't know how to start it. Weak right legs and ignorance.
Hi Michael, I have to say a big "Sorry" here, in my question below I ask about your "bodge" I asure you I did mean to write "dodge" since that is what it is rather than the other, Keep up the good work.
Hello Mike, Thanks for this and your previous videos, you and Rupert Ratio are my point of reference for my first B44 engine renovation. I very much like your relaxed and honest presentations and all the great tips. Any chance of you covering damaged crankcase repairs, i.e. thread damage, worn bearing houses, damaged mating faces and the like? Keep them coming please.......Rob in Blighty.
Hello Rob.Glad that you like the videos. As chance would have it just before I started the series I worked on an A10 with all of the problems that you described. I will see what is in a pile of 250 stuff I bought for a damaged casing that I can repair on air.
I really liked the 1970 twin cylinder Triumph Trophy 500 I owned but it really makes me wonder why the engineers did not correct the clearance issues at the factory. If nothing else it surely would have saved assembly time. Thanks for the tips and tricks.
It is like modern cars Christina. The entire unit is built up before it goes into the machine. The designers are not concerned with having to take bits off and then put them back again with the engine in situ. I had a sports version of a Chevrolet where you had to take half of the front suspension apart to change the alternator. Of course it was already on the engine when they dropped it into the engine bay on top of the suspension so they didn't care.
I use a band of aluminum sheet as a piston ring compressor on my singles. Bend it to an omega symbol shape, then you can use finger pressure to hold all the piston rings and then remove it easily once the barrel is over the rings.
I have home made compressors that I use for 360 deg twins but I find that I can usually get a barrel on in less time than it takes to get one out, fit it, put the barrel on, take it off and put it away. Plus I like to show how jobs can be done without a lot of special tools. Not everybody is as well equipped as I am fortunate enough to be..
Hello Michael, your video's are always interesting. as you can see I often go back and review past episodes. One of my bikes is a 1971 B50SS that I have owned for nearly 30 years. My relationship with this bike has been very much a love hate one, however my question for you is does the bodge you have mentioned here work for my B50 frame, I suspect it is NO. I have checked my copy of Haynes and they start with how to remove the motor and gearbox unit etc. Thanks again Michael, from another with white hair where dark hair used to be.
For the B50 what you need to do is replace the rocker box studs with Allen bolts then the box doesn't have to be lifted so high to get it to clear. I think that you have to take out the front and bottom engine bolts to let it drop forward a little bit as well, but at least you don't have to lift 85lbs of engine out of the frame.
Shaving the lower head gasket was used to increase compression all the time. As we did it in the 1970's.. and shaving the cooling fins. So you could get them heads past the frame. Damn near every shop mechanic did to save time.
They are a single aluminium rod so the fiddly bit is getting the taper right so there is room for them to cross in the pushrod tunnel, and the correct radius for the end to fit in the cam follower.
Thanks, Michael. Reassembly is a bit like a reverse Houdini trick. So why does your customer want to reduce compression? These bikes and all you do to them is new to me. Thanks again for sharing. Joe
Hello Joseph. The B44 is a great engine but it can be a bit difficult to start. Mostly I might add because of poor technique, I never have a problem with a well set up bike. Lowering the compression makes them a lot easier to kick over and start, particularly if one is getting on a bit in years. You lose some top end performance but the engines are a lot more docile.
It seems that if grinding a 16th of an inch off a fin lets it clear that loosening the engine mounts and shifting the engine a bit rather than pulling it entirely out of the frame should do it.
It means you don't have to manhandle the engine. Even jiggling it to get the engine bolts in and out is a chore. Then again there are always more than one way to do any job.
There's nothing wrong with ring-clamps , modern 3-piece rings work far better than one-piece and consider placing a clean rag in the crankcase mouth in case a ring breaks and falls straight down into your engine. He means well and there's some good tips
I used to love BSA's, great bikes in so many ways, and I owned loads over the years. Just this video gives loads of clues as to why they went belly-up. Complete disregard for design detail, hopeless lack of innovation and obviously being managed by a gang of incompetents.
Surely if you took out the two front barrel studs you could slide the barrel into place without grinding. Then insert them once the barrel is in place, two nuts locked to tighten.
My thoughts as well. I imagined the poor guys on the assembly lines having a constant battle. They must have had some innovative work arounds. Little wonder that the Japanese bikes took over the markets. Rgds from S Africa Clive
Your video was very informative. I've got a 1966 B44 but someone put a later square cylinder on the 1966 case. I found on ebay a round cylinder,cam.push rods and head to replace it. Any way I'll try some of your wisdom when I get to it this winter. Thanks for your post. I like keeping the old ones on the road too.
Richard Pomeroy Somebody put a square barrel on a manufactured round barrel engine, this dog should be tracked down and put in his place. This is a crime and he needs to be punished.
@@davidmontee2998 When I get further along in my current project ( Porsche 914) I'll get to putting the round barrel onto the b44. Most of the old bikes I get are just neglected but this b44 was abused.
Richard Pomeroy I have had my 441 since I was 17 Y O. My 441 is almost in mint condition. In this video I can see the piston is the round one just like in mine. I really can’t believe someone put a square barrel on a round barrel engine, stupid person. My 41 is sitting on a B-25 frame. Back in ‘66 BSA never matched the engine to the frame so this configuration is perfectly valid. If you need any information on the 441 I will share with you anything I know.
I remember fighting with the nut clearances, pain in the keester. Do you compensate the torque amount with that tool you made up? Being longer will change the amount of torque at the nut. Thanks for the video.
Hello Duncan. Yes there is a formula which is in the BSA manuals. You multiply the torque you want by the length of the torque wrench and then divide that by the total length of the torque wrench and extension.
I'm curious about the B44 cylinder head and barrel dodge. Why would anyone want to lower the compression? Wouldn't that make for a less powerful engine? Was this done to run cooler? Cheer, Tim.
The owner of this bike could not kick it over so the lower compression helped him with that. Also talking of "power" can be misleading. The big single cylinder trials bikes like the Enfields etc would run as low as 6:1 and they would climb anything and plow through the thickest mud.
So, if the BSA people gave a damn about their customers they could have trimmed a sixteenth off one fin and the whole problem of pulling the engine would go away? Customer Support at its best! I have a lot of affection for the old British stuff but after reading Bert Hopwood’s book things made much more sense.
With the Norton Atlas engine in the AMC frame for the P11 Scrambler they actually tell you in the manual to file some off the cylinder head so that you can get it off without taking it out of the frame. How stupid is that.
@@BritanniaMotorcycles You’ve finally topped Hopwood’s story about getting his improved valve guide seals killed by management because “The British motorcyclist enjoys decoking his cylinder head on a Sunday morning”. There is a lesson in there somewhere, the British 2 and 4 wheeled industries went from the top to being mostly a memory in a generation. Might explain why I finishing watching you and then go out to my garage and work on a Japanese copy of a Lotus Elan instead of working on the real thing.
Thanks for this. At 22:00 could you tell me how you ground those fins down before you got it disassembled? Or did you use an open end wrench to get it apart?
I used an open end to get it apart as I was not concerned with the torque on the spanner. Having said that, due to differences in castings sometimes a ring spanner or socket will fit.
S'cuse the ignorance, but why LOWER the compression???? *** Found answer lower down. Easier start. I once had a 1956 Matchless G80S, 500 single. Not hard to kick over.
@@JamulDano There are lots of reasons to do with the type of performance an engine gives. In trials for instance, you need soft, usable power which makes the bike more tractable and less likely to stall at low revs. In this particular instance it was to make the bike easier to kick over and start.
The B50 is a really tight fit in the OIF frame. Don't forget it is the same frame for the 250. What you need to do here is replace the studs that hold down the rocker box with Allen bolts, then you do not have to lift the rocker box over the tops of the studs. Of course the problem is that you will have to take the engine out, or at least lean it to one side to get the rocker box off to begin with.
@@BritanniaMotorcycles thanks. Still holding onto my 69 B44 since high school, needs to be spruced up and dusted off as well as re ringing or maybe boring the motor but it’s all original.
You could get the four long bolts that go to the crankcase out but the two from the cylinder are under the rocker casting. Plus taking the long studs in and not is not recommended. The first time is the hardest. Changing the rocker cover studs for Allen bolts is the best remedy for further work.
No it doesn't and I never touched the bottom end. It's usually bad previous work, screwdrivers between joint faces, and bad gaskets that cause the leaks. Any BSA engine that has been rebuilt should not leak. Thank you for the compliment.
It's always difficult to know how much to film but over the last couple of years I have asked viewers a couple of times how much they want to see. The answer is all of it, so I try to get a balance.
I am not sure as I have not tried it with a B50 which has the same frame as the B25 so is a bit of a squeeze. However I do know that the people who race B50s replace the studs with Allen bolts. Also I lowered the top tube on my trials bike and I can get the head off that by swivelling it around.
You don't have a true B-44, you have a girly version of the B44 engine. The original B-44 was the "E" model. That was the Enduro. After the BSA-441 won the 1965-66 motocross championships of Europe BSA went into the production with this Enduro model. This is the most powerful engine they ever produced. I am now 66 years olod and still have the very BSA-441 I had when I was seventeen (17) years. The original first production run had a round barrel. The one in the video is the square jug model. Something after the first production run. My BSA-441 is B-44 E, s/n 137, talk about rare, and it still runs.
I have two of the round barrel B44E engines. Not sure what I will do for them. I have restored two B44s for older people who had them when they were young. Neither people could start them when I delivered the bikes. I would start them first kick and then they would dab at the kickstart. 40 years in an office takes its toll. Thanks for watching.
@@BritanniaMotorcycles It's not the 40 years at a desk, it's the 40 years of kicking practice. 50 years on I can start any big single I walk up to, decompressor or no. I removed two 250 Tri/BSA top ends a few days ago and both came off in bike without any jiggery pokery. I wonder what the difference is? I'm in Canada so perhaps they shrunk from the cold? -29C when I left work, a short walk quickly leaves you without any external male genitalia so it's possible!
@@scheusselmensch5713. The 441 engine is 2" taller than the 250 so there is a lot more room with the first C25/B25 models that used the Scrambles derived all welded frame. On the later B50 and B25 models they also used the same size frame for both bikes. The B50 engine is a bugger to get in and out.
@@BritanniaMotorcycles Yes it is. I had a '71(?) B50SS. An unpleasant motor in a very pleasant frame. A real pleasure to scratch around town on but the engine sure did not like hot days and slow traffic.I'm sorely tempted to stick one of the modern four stroke enduro engines in one and have a B25/50 that will wheelie at 50.
David Montee- Just curious what year is your Victor? I bought a 69 when I was 17 and am same age as you. Unfortunately sold it in 71 and bought a CB 750. Both great bikes.
Wot? There isn't a NOS rocker box stud allen bolt replacement kit anywhere in Britain? Which begs this next question: why on earth would BSA have put studs on something as mundane as a rocker box cover? Which leads into the whole British hide bound it was good enough for my grandfather engineering philosophy vs. the Japanese let's do it better and put all those dinosaurs out of business philosophy.
You forget what utter shite BSA tried to sell us in the 1970s. Thankfully, I found Honda and never had to suffer all this nonsense. UNF and UNC threads versus Whitworth, on the same engine. What was all this bollocks? No wonder folks stopped buying them and bought Japanese bikes. Triumph and Norton were just the same. Museum pieces.
You have got to be keen to ride them and unfortunately the 70s gave even earlier good bikes a bad name. I mean, fancy getting Ogilvy who designed toasters and stuff to work on the first Trident. Executives who don't listen to line managers.
@@BritanniaMotorcycles I was 16 in 1972 and desperate to ride my BSA Bantam D7 that I'd built from scratch. I sold it and bought a 6T Thunderbird which was similarly shite. Then I discovered Japanese bikes. I still use my 2006 CB919 and love it to bits.
As I mention you can replace the studs with Allen bolts, but if you just take the studs out to get it on and then try to replace them, you will find that they are not long enough to take two nuts to tighten them into the head.
