Buffy the Vampire Slayer Talk || s3e16 "Doppelgangland" 

And a little Google image searching will find you pictures of four Willows, hanging out on the set. (AH and the three different body and stunt doubles they used when filming.)

Yes she has some amazing acting skills, SMG has to do something slightly similar later on, I don't that is specific enough to be a spoiler.

Quite possibly 4 of the absolute worst performances of the entire series.

I know Im kind of off topic but does anyone know a good place to watch new series online?

One of the best episodes, so much Alyson Hannigan. I love her.

Always loved that moment after with that "Say, you all didn't happen to do a bunch of drugs, didja?"

Giles has two daughters: Buffy and Willow.

@@lionlyonsEXACTLY..

omg I didn't even think about that.... damn Cordelia

@@alleybox Yeah nothing subtle about Cordelia!

Cordy is just the bomb.

@@joeypotter6051 That's our Cordy 😂

I mean...she did ask where Wes was

She's not wrong… =)

@@krank23 I was gonna say what's not factually accurate about that?

It's pretty much canon that Angelus is smarter than Angel, even though they're basically the same person. But Angelus uses his intelligence exclusively to hurt people and save his own skin. I've come to believe that Angel unconsciously avoids being as cunning as Angelus because he associates that intelligence with the atrocities Angelus would commit.

Angel is a himbo who is trying SO HARD to be cool its adorable

Angel has to be written weak because he can't outshine the lead

What? Who says that ? I hear "bored now" more than I heard that line be used

I love her delivery of: I'm flunking math! LOL

"Aren't you just naturally buff, Buff? Heh. Buff Buff."

"........................................................... I.D." "{sigh} Give me a Coke."

My favorite line will probably always be Spike saying: *Out.For.A.Walk....Bitch*

Within his experience, he's correct. Liam - the person Angel was before he was turned - was a garbage human being who cared only for his own gratification and had basically zero empathy. Angelus was a vampiric hedonist, causing misery, suffering, and bloodshed entirely on his own twisted whims. Angel is that person with an actual conscience... and even then, he didn't start trying to do good, to try and redeem himself until he first saw Buffy. Darla's whimsy all comes from a mind broken by Angelus making a personal project out of destroying who she was using every form of emotional and psychological torture he can devise. To Angel's experiences, a Vampire is you, but with a bloodthirsty demon where your soul-your conscience, more or less-used to be. It's you, but instead of a sense of right or wrong, or the ability to feel shame, there is a monster telling you that you are a predator and all these people around you are prey. Whether or not Angel's experiences are broadly representative is another matter. There are other examples I could give except they'd be spoilers.

Hilarious but he was probably only talking about sexual orientation.

@@toshomni9478 I don't think so. My understanding of the Buffyverse is that a vampire is what that specific person would be like with all empathy, compassion, and inhibitions removed, with added super strength and a hunger for blood.

I mean, even by this point in the Buffyverse it should be clear that the idea that vampires "aren't *really*" the person that was turned is more than a little disingenuous. There's no broken continuity between life and post-life for a vampire; from their perspective it's been a singular, continuous experience. Who they were as a human informs who they are as a vampire. Case in point, Drusilla. The psychological torment inflicted on her by Angel when she was still human persists with her as a vampire. Even the term used to describe the transition from human to vampire is "turned", describing a transformation rather than substitution. The soul doesn't appear to contain any memories or perception of being anywhere else. When Angel is re-ensouled, he's disoriented, but once that clears the only thing that's changed is a switch gets flicked that alters how he reconciles his behavior with conventional morality. The idea, stated by Giles and Buffy in the early days of the show, of it not really being the person is arguably a comfortable, but necessary lie they and others like them have to convince themselves; and Buffy facing off against Angelus in season 2 is the reason why. If you see anything of the human in the vampire, if you think for even a second that you can "reach them" or cure them or do anything other than put a stake through their chest, that's a moment of hesitation that will get either your or an innocent killed. As for the nature of "Angelus" - Angel without his soul - when compared even to other vampires, Angel seems to be an outlier. There are vampires, like Spike and Drusilla and others, who are dangerous, they're evil, they're generally remorseless; and then there's Angelus. He seems to be compelled almost to a manic degree in lashing out against anything that reminds him of family or his sense of humanity, the things that he lost by becoming a vampire. It's as if he feels mocked by those things. In 'I Only Have Eyes For You," he has this compulsive reaction to the feeling of humanity following his possession, even though the Judge proved that vampires are more than capable of possessing even at least some trace of humanity; enough that he was able to burn one and sensed it in Spike and Dru. Even more telling is the contrast indirectly made between Angel and other vampires in "Becoming Parts 1& 2". Spike told Buffy how most vampires may talk a big game about wanting to end the world, when really the status quo suits them just fine; whereas Angel's not just willing to actually end the world and have it pulled into hell, he comments about how he's looking forward to "it all ending". He's self-destructive, driven by a self-loathing; and by all rights the bloody trail he left through history should have resulted in someone putting him down long before the Kalderash re-ensouled him, if not for a combination of circumstance and and an unfortunately strong sense of self-preservation that allowed Angel always come out alive, in a manner of speaking.

@@stargazer1682 SPOILER BELOW We do see someone whose soul has been to the afterlife having memory of it later on. .

His wholesomeness juxtaposed against how ruthless and evil he is. "I'm a family man. Now, let's kill your little friend." Such a wonderful villain.

Yeah the Mayor is just as uncomfortable about that line as we are

Also it's interesting that Faith immediately went to a sexual place, even if she was being humorous. Sorta like when she was introduced to Giles, "if I'd known they made them that young and cute, I'd have requested a transfer." She indulges Xander with naked fighting stories the first time they meet, and tells Oz that "as long as you don't go scratching at me or humping my leg, we're five by five." And correct me if I'm wrong, but I believe the first actual conversation she had with Angel on screen was in Consequences, when she was taunting him about tying her up. It's a pattern, with men, and how men see her. Or how she thinks men see her. The exception is Wesley, all he got was "new watcher? Screw that." We've gotten surprisingly little interaction between them.

@@partycitydumpster oh I 100% agree. Faith uses her sexuality as a form of power over men. She knows that they are attracted to her and she leans into that to get them to do what she wants. The Mayor is the only one who shuts her down right away - actually perhaps Angel does too, I don't recall exactly - even Giles just blushes and brushes it off. It's a shame we haven't seen more Faith/Wesley interaction. But perhaps she reads that he'd be far too intimidated by her to be worth the attempt? It's an interesting moment. In this episode she refers to him as "Princess Margaret" (LOL) - clearly she has no respect for him and to be fair, he's done nothing to earn her respect. The scene in the library in this episode is a little out of character for where Faith and the Watchers and Scoobies were at in the last episode, it always feels a little bit jarring. I get why it's in there but it doesn't quite compute. IMO.

@@joeypotter6051 good point, I do think the Mayor is the only one that verbally shuts her down (that doesn't say anything bad about them, everyone in the scoobies is either too awkward or too Xander to do so). Angel just ignores her. I think if more people besides Cordelia started making sexual comments about Wesley we would all collectively realize how hot he is.

How did I never noticed that ?????

Very nice catch. I never even paid attention to that.

On the other hand, it also had Buffy stopping herself from staking Vamp Willow with the same warning from Willow that Faith had from Buffy, but better self-control. .

@@TheNoybusiness That's why she'd been training extra-hard. Even though she's naturally buff-buff.

Thank you for pointing this out. I didn't notice that they didn't notice Faith Leveled up.

I love it. lol

Also Angel trying to find the words to tell Buffy that Willow is dead is very touching, because he likes Willow too.

"Did you look, under the sofa in Hell ?!"

"Much, much better."

"Say, y'all didn't happen to do a buncha drugs, didya?"

"Hands! Hands!"

I believe these chicken feet are mine!

I never saw reactor Liam Duke laugh harder than when he saw that moment.

I love how supposedly immortal beings were always so shocked when they were stalked.

nice pfp

I follow Alley and Torchwood Boy to see their specific reactions. .

Yes! I'm ridiculously excited for when she starts uploading her Angel reactions!

She is my favorite. Gonna be bummed when it’s over.

@@dneecy32 me too ::((

I havent been making any lists but she is awesome. Right up there is also Liam "Giles" Duke.

^^This^^ for days!! I always thought that was one of the funniest bits in this episode. "Hands! Hands in new places!!" Also loved when she changed outfits... "Oh... gosh... look at those." The whole lot of them looked oober uncomfortable...lol!

What's #1? Or have we not seen it, yet?

@@tmpreardon4200 probably the bit in becoming 2 where xander rescues him haha

Yes because even when Xanders oldest surviving friend has been murdered and her body defiled by a demon Giles can't stop himself from shitting on a teenage boy.

@@ronaldfasshauer4390 hahaha okay Ronald.... hahaha, this is some serious stretching on your part, but it is a Xander topic, so of course this would be the response.... hahahaha Only thing worse are Johnny Depp apologist, Zack Snyder zealots and Ron Weasley was robbed accounts.... hahaha

I know, right?

"Mortal. A child. And I'm flunking math." SPOILER BELOW Which is particularly bad because she's really good at math.

@@TheNoybusiness maybe she meant geometry or trig? lol different maths

@@razycrandomgirl I always thought it was a "this is too easy so I'm just not going to try" kind of flunking (though really it's just a little plot hole)

Or maybe she's good at math IN CONTEXT. On The Office Kevin was terrible at math (despite being an office accountant) but when they used PIES he was able to do math quickly in his head. "What's [number] pies minus [number] pies?" and he'd know it. Simply replacing the word pies with salads and he couldn't. Maybe Anya is good at math when it's in the spoiler context, which would actually make realistic sense more than the pies joke.

I think he stopped because he realised that it would imply that Willow was herself gay, which might have been awkward, especially if Willow had not considered the possibility (also given Angel's 18th Century Catholic upbringing).

@@denmaroca2584 it also means that Josh Walden was thinking of Willow being gay which happen in season 4 in season 3

@@denmaroca2584 i think he realized that willow was sapphic but stopped because willow needed to figure it out for herself

I think we all know why, and that why begins with a "W" and has red hair 😂 (only half joking)

Because two cinnamon buns are better than one.

Spoilers, lol. I’m now in my way to watch your reaction now 😁

Mine too Shan :)

*ANY?* Really?

@@AscendedXSaiyan Most, at least.

Even, "I, Robot, You, Jane"? ;)

@@stargazer1682 Perhaps.. Yes, I do like that one.. Just because we see lots of Willow ;)

@@eagleblaze4434 In fairness to the episode, I think it's more a misfortune of being in season 1, before the characters were more developed; and before the writing found its footing. The concept is pretty solid and even the identified threat of a literal ghost (or demon ghost) in the machine and the possible havoc it could cause has all sorts of possibilities. Hell, think what Moloch could have done *now*....

Ah, but Florida rain is not like British rain. I'm from Florida but lived in England for several years, and Florida rain is much heavier than your average British rain. British rain tends to be lighter but longer/steadier, as well as being colder and more miserable, while Florida rain is heavier but more of a shorter, torrential downpour with lots of thunder, lightning, and the occasional tornado. I've been caught in actual flash floods while driving in the rain in Florida.

@@sadfaery We get that kind of rain every summer nowadays, thanks to the oil companies. Flashfloods and everything. Tornados are rare, but not unknown now. The storms are often huge cyclonic systems, rotating as they travel across the country, and occasionally there's a spout or a brief twister in the middle, particularly over water. It'll get worse, so watch this space.

Yeah but the only reason that Willow wanted to save her was so that they could show that Buffy can stop when she's told to, in juxtaposition to Faith. I can't really think of any genuine reason for it otherwise. Other than it being funny that she dies immediately.

@@joeypotter6051 Willow speaks about Vamp Willow in the first person, that shows she has trouble seeing her as a separate entity. That's why she doesn't want Buffy to kill her vampire doppelganger, because it would feel as if Buffy killed her.

@@Itcouldbebunnies Also, the cosmic order and whatnot.

Right? Every time I watch her videos I feel like that meme of the bear darting its eyes around.

After this and Angel I hope she reacts to the other Joss show that has the "special" hell

@@Sam_371 Wait, is THAT what Toy Story's about...? ;)

@@Sam_371 YES ! ! ! ! Bowncoats Unite !

Lol yep. I know which episode you’re talking about. Great foreshadowing quote revealed. Dang don’t you just wanna say something? But you can’t because of spoilers. Ugh.

But I think she knows. Lol

I almost want to take notes so that in the future I make sure to remember to say "Remember back in episode * [three seasons ago] when you said......."

But poor Sandy died because of it. .

SPOILER tabula rasa

The band still exists. The singer formerly known as Sarah goes by Sam now.

I can think of 3 bands a little more well known than this one in upcoming seasons...but regardless, yes great band and the whole series has a lot of great music!

Yes, and we see enough scenes of him reading literature or philosophy or having an ancient text Files needed to know he's very well read. He's just not socially intelligent. And possibly emotionally intelligent. One exception to that is Buffy. Those two find it easy to confuse in one another and express themselves emotionally.

Definitely in the top five. Kinda liked the Mistress of Pain line too.