Building and Hunting with Massively Overspined Arrows 

Another great informative and educational video from Hunt Primitive. I have learned more about archeology and anthropology from Ryan Gill than from all my college professors. I believe he deserves an honorary degree. I’m serious. This is great stuff. Living archaeology and anthropology.

Hey man I just wanted to say thanks. I don't know if you benefit much from doing these videos but I sure appreciate them. Super interesting and relaxing. I am going to take this up as a small hobby. I promise I'll buy my first flint knapping set from your establishment! Thanks again!

Overspined arrows are my favorites, they last much longer than the right spinned arrows, I currently experiment with huge thick hazel arrows weighing about 55 - 70 grams, they look like typical old siberian arrows.

Ryan your archery skills are off the chart crazy good ! I love how you roll with your bow and arrow build skills! Keep making these videos!😁

Hi Ryan great video and very informative, thanks. I think prehistoric humans would have learnt at an early age the way different weight arrows flew . From my own childhood, playing with bows and arrows simply sticks cut from the hedge , I found the heavier ones stuck in better which led me to try all sorts ( including some that resembled small logs to no avail lol ) of thickness and length of shafts . Oh reminiscing of the good old carefree days growing up on the farm lol. Great video again, take care.

One of the super powers of compound/modern gear is that while you can underspine, you can't overspine. This makes life hugely easier since you can choose your arrows for some other feature than spine. The classic example being line cutting. The reason this works is because with full centershot, shoot through rests, and releases you can get perfect arrow flight. One famous 3D archer shot an 80# bow and 24xx, or 26xx arrows, with points ranging from 60 grains to 360 grains, depending on the targets, whether he was shooting Elk, or winning at Vegas. The missing factor with stick bows is that we shoot fingers, usually Mediterranean. This causes the flip off the fingers that causes a lot of the issues around spine, even on center shot bows. But primitive shooters often shot a pinch shot which is a lot like a release aid. I can't shoot enough weight that way, but it is an interesting aspect of how things worked in the past.

a very nice video, reminds me of your talking primitive section, super useful! I noticed those modern archery are full of it as soon as I made a bow and made arrows, you absolutely do not need a spine tester to make good arrows and be accurate! ok, maybe when doing olympic archery but that means shooting a nickel at 70m, hunting is much more forgiving.

I Just build my first primitive bow this morning, i whatched so many vids on the topic, but in the end i have to make it my on way, and now i am having problems with the arrows, but your video made things clear to me, thank vou.

Don't forget kathra. Flicking the bow out of the way a bit makes a huge difference in canceling paradox, allowing for heavier spined arrows as well.

Awesome video. Also thank you for the Knapping kit Ryan! It looks and feels great. I hope to make lots of points and blades with it!

if you look at amazonian tribes or some african tribes they also used javelin sized arrows to hunt without shooting ridiculous draw weights. much less fps but lots of weight.

Awesome video! Keep them coming!

Would be great if you could do a primitive fishing playlist. Great channel. Love it.

Found you on tiktok most definitely going to be watching your content it's awesome

Excellent video again! Keep up the good job!!!

Thank you for a very informative video. True knowledge gained through experience.

Hey Ryan, love your videos. I hope everything is going good for you!

thanks to you I have been experimenting with every thing around me frome arrow heads all the way to the atlatel all have been fails though but thats the fun of it and now i am thinking obout becoming a architect in the future so thank you so much and keep up the amazing work.

I’d love to see another video on the techniques you use for your traditional tattoos. It’s looking like your sleeve is beginning to be way more filled out.

Great information!! Thank you so much

Great vids!.....I Started building self bows 10 years ago......never stoped. Its addictive.up here in Quebec.... i use hickory to back rock maple (board bows) .now i'm more focused on sinew backed hophornbeam ( split handle).hhb is hte best wood around here.safest wood for beginers. (It holds itself together IF it fails. You havent hunt till you hunt with a stick bow.Best hunting experience even if you don t shoot anything.

Found an atlatl point in VA. It's split down the middle but someone in the past continued to use the broken surface as polishing tool 😎👌 also you taught me almost everything I know about knapping and points 💪😁

I use 7 ft. Hexagonal Northern White Ash Darts with my Red Oak Atlatl. As a "big game" harvester it is very effective on whitetail deer out to about 70-80 ft. with homemade work hardened mild steel two bladed single bevel broadheads. It takes lots of practice to develop proficiency with an Atlatl. I mostly hunt with a Korean Style Sinew Backed Bamboo Horse Bow and Bamboo Arrows with homemade mild steel single bevel points.

Good luck my guy I learned so much

At least with my juniper bows, they will launch a big heavy arrow just as fast as a light one. The difference is the penatration . My personal experience is, every so often a bow matches with a certain arrow like magic. Just something about the behavior of both comes together.

Love your vids man I made three bow's and you got me into it! Not great but I only started a few months ago but yeah

You should go out on a primitve hog hunt with deermeetfordinner or bluegabe from Florida ✌🏻

Excellent info as always! Very enlightening on bow and arrow relationships. It’s kid of awesome how you have come full circle! What length do you recommend for shafts?Are you plugging the ends with split cane still?

Hey Ryan! it’s keoni, I don’t know if you remember me but I’m happy that you’re doing good on RU-vid! Keep up the work!

That was seriously interesting! Thank you! I imagine that the heavier arrows are quieter too? I understand that some hunter gatherers use extra long arrows--quite a bit longer than draw length. Is there any advantage to that? Have you explored the subject? Thanks, again!

Thanks Ryan, this is a good point -it is really good to have the string favour the side of the bow you shoot from. I don't have river cane where I come from, so I make hard wood arrows. I recently realised that there was no need for the ancient archer to have a spine tester. A spine tester is the child of modern logic -reference everything to a measuring system with agreed units. This is not primitive thinking where we reference things to the things they need to fit with. If you shoot promising shafts unfletched, you can see how well matched they are to the bow. If they are too heavy and get pushed off by the side of the bow, then you can just sand them till they fly straight. A very small amount of sanding can make a large change in an arrow's spine and the weight of the set (if you weigh them to check) will still probably all be within 20 or so grains. This is particularly so if you choose the wood of one species and cut defect free shafts from places with similar growing conditions.

Very interesting. So what do you have concerning arrow flight, points, etc. I used to shoot a flat bow but finally gave up because I couldn't get good arrow flight, specifically when I added 2 blade broadheads.

awesome!!!

Hey Ryan, in your cave or wherever you sit during you videos by the rock wall, you should make some sort of paint or use the blood of a kill to make cave paintings!

You ve got a new subscriber!! What about shooting bare shaft /no feathers, but with some tip? Won't this add to the overall weight/penetration of the arrow? Is the paradox more intence when you add weight on the tip of the bow? And what is the relation between those 3 factors. : Stiffnes- Weight on the tip-length. Great video! Thanks!

Love it. Ive been getting into arrow building and I was doing research and was getting overwelmed with the science of it. I personally think they are trying too hard. But to each their own.

Great poscast brother. I could talk for hours on primitive archery and kaienkehaka (mohawk people) specifically. Amazing videos and I love what you do. 100% Kaienkehaka and I approve. When do you harvest river cane? What time of year for you works? Thanks Gil

Good information I have found 4 vane with twist straightens arrow flight faster

The Cherokee’s always used the top of the tree as the top of the bow according Al Herrin.

Excellent video, thank you! It answered a lot of questions that I thought on recently. Whoch of your bow models are you using in this video?

Super explanation of how this must have evolved. You need to be awarded a medal for excellence in experimental archaeology.

Thank you for de video. Isn´t this disalignment between tips and handle causing, perhaps, some torke?. I wish a good year for you... and everybody.

Hey Ryan I have a crazy question, can you knap diamonds? I know they chip, so the thought popped in my head. Can't seem to find anyone else ever having that question on the web so I figured I would try to ask you.

I truly enjoy your videos and group. I went through a couple $300 worth of flint and for some reason I still cannot make a point. Is there any advice that you have? And yes I have watched your videos for beginners.

Hi Ryan. Vary interesting video. Iv notest many native eastern woodland bows in Steve Allely and Jim Hamm's book (Encyclopedia of Native American Bows, Arrows & Quivers Volume1) with one or sometimes two side nocks. the nocks of some these bows are on opposite sides of each bow tip. this means the string will bisect somewhere along a likely unstraight primitively made bow. I wander if a primitive bow made like this contributes two what you are explaining in regards to the string favoring a certain side of a bow?

Quick question how do you practice shooting do you use a blunt tip or just sharpened tip or do you make a stone /bone arrow head ??

I use carbon arrows at a rating of 340 on a longbow that's about 48# @ 28", and they fly straight and hit very hard with a heavier arrow head. There is not really any archery stores in my city, and the only stores near me that sell stuff are HEAVILY catered towards modern "archery". I usually end up making my own arrows from oak dowels from lowes lol

Ryan, I am weird, I nock my arrows on the right hand side and aim with both eyes open. The pull and draw is so much more fluid. Idk when or why folks started doing it the other way, always seemed the proper way to me.

If you did a primitive hunting class in tampa or somwhere close i would be the 1st one there

I took a chance on your concept and bought some cedar shafts spined at #72-#75. They shoot just fine out of my #56 Ben Pearson, and get a lot deeper penetration than the shafts that are recommended by the spine tables. Like I said on one of your other videos, I'm going to start a fire in the back yard and burn the "Book of Archery Rules". Thanks.

Oh k I been watching your videos for a long while now. There is one thing that I like to see you do and that's talk about PVC bows I been hearing about them a lot would you mind comparing a PVC bow to a bow that you made really like to see that video.

hey Mr. Gill when's the stone age survival video coming out?

Seeing you shoot an arrow with a completely flat tip made me wonder. Do you ever sharpen the tips of completely wood arrows? I once saw a guy recommend using a pencil sharpener to put a point on all wood arrows in a pinch. I imaging this would be better for arrows made from sticks rather than cane stalks. I know they would not penetrate like one with a proper stone point and that you are well past needing to do things like this, But I would appreciate you talking about wooden points.

nice bro👍 .. some pepole think that bow are twis... 🤦‍♂️ now thy know... arrow shoot more center.... 🏹😁

Your logic works with any projectile. The greater its mass, the higher the penetration and shock to the target. Adore the string biasing comments about primitive bow hunting, and how it ultimately effects arrow flight characteristics, short or long distances.

Hey Ryan, can the string line be manipulated by cutting the nocks asymmetrically or by cutting the handle area thinner on the arrow side?

Damn useful information for people like me who build things primitive not for fun but because of shortage of resources

So if you’re shooting a center or close to it recurve, over spine would work better?

Modern ranch fairy special!

I SUCK at archery. Love it but I simply cannot hit the broad side of a barn. I'm going to have to try this. Looks like a good idea to me.

I'd like a tip regarding this information on board bows. Since they are usually perfectly straight, is there anything specifically to do on them to get the same effect?

Can someone explain how is spine weight determined… ryan is talking about 75-80 lbs spine but all spine measurements i know about are in the hundreds( 350, 400, 600).

Wouldn’t this also apply to modern center shot bows? And/or bows cut past center?

Good stuff, I learned many things as always and some food for thought! I have been wondering about spine in regards to primitive arrows. I have been shooting Ocean Spray shoot shafts. Many of them are way over spine for my bow. The bow has a decent shelf and the string runs center. I can see the arrows in paradox and sticking nock left in the target. This makes me concerned that if I was to hit game with an arrow not flying true then it wouldn’t get good penetration because it is losing energy on the nock end from flying “sideways” I have been glueing pistol brass on the ends of my arrows for stump shooting as the brass weighs(75gr) the same as some stone points that I have. Protects the arrows a bit and give a pretty accurate idea of flight with something on the end. And the shaft doesn’t need to be tapered which give options later if I want to put stone points on. I can shape the end how best to suit the head. Just an idea I came up with😁 I feel like instead of having any kind of spine tester in primitive times, they would have just been making a ton of arrows, so there was always a variety to try on all the bows. Then the archer would have a good sense which worked and could reference back to the nicest flying arrows for picking more shoots/cane. I am building and shooting a couple a week for the practice of working the hardwood shoot and seeing which arrows might be candidates for hunting arrows.

Again.........NICE!!!!!!!

Ryan, I was wondering how long are your arrows?

Do you experience string slap on bows with the string favoring the left side? Since the string would be closer to your arm...

Maybe shooting with the string off to one side.is that the reason why they shoot like Ishi ?so it doesn't slap your arm?

Many of the Native American bows would have string nocks cut only on one side of the bow. I wonder if this was to accomplish string alignment along one side of the bow rather than in the center?

Okay,, so I too built a spine tester.. very accurate, based on 26" span... Your arrow appears to be longer than 26". When you're spining your arrows, are you measuring the fat, stiff end, or the smaller diam, weaker end? Because, one can have all the mass and spine in the world, up front and play with spine and paradox, further back towards the nock, can't they? Please educate me!.. This isn't a challenge; I really am asking for insight and knowledge. Thanks!,, Ken

Would it be possible to get in contact with you? I have a few questions that I don't know how to get answers to

Big flier on that last shot. Primitive bows and arrows are close range tools.

Hey I’m considering buying your flint knapping starter kit does it come with any rock?

Also, align the arrow with the target, not the bow. Think like a crossbow, were the bolt is aligned straight to the target and the bow is slightly canted. Do the same with an arrow, align it the target, canting the bow slightly, apply a bit of khatra and you will be able to shoot very stiff arrows indeed.

You make very nice arrows over all Ryan.

When cave men started out it was after an ice age,......the proper woods didn't exist yet. They were light woods so arrows were bigger around and longer to gain penetration. There's a really great book wrote about it with all the supporting archeological facts. Written by 5 Archeologists,......if you want to learn to make bows the name of that book is The Bow Builders Book,... from 3 Rivers archery its from Europe its the finest book I own. Big and full of illustrations about all shaft materials used and dates of use,..... points and types of points used. Different bows and how to build them.

How Long are the arrows that you are shooting?

why not show the final group, also you need to mention you bow arm movement and torque applied that are the actual things making you arrow shoot straight.

Is it hard to find a primitive or recurve bow that’s left handed and I’m sure it is expensive.

Can you make a video on how to make like primitive tools from materials just from your backyard? My backyard is extremely large but empty. I have not a single tree :( and I love these videos and I love making things primitive.

Hey Ryan, do you eat raw meat?

Where can I buy your shirt? (blieve uou know witch 1) 😂

Ignore my last comment on your freshet video!

How long do your bow last before breaking

Whats the name of the plants u used scientific names are easier to look up

You think you could shoot a bow at night with duel tube NODs? That would be an epic video, primitive archery, stone point, night vision hog hunt.

Build a spear and hunt with it not an Atlatl tho

You should try to get on a series called alone and if you win you will get $500,000$

In one of your other videos I was watching, you mentioned your website. I went to go check out your bows... I hate to sound rude but I'm gonna. Those sticks are waaaaay overpriced. I have made a few bows myself and I know for a fact that those bows don't cost that much. Factoring in supplies, tools and time, I could see maybe $400-$450. They are really nice bows but I think For that kind of money, people would be better off buying a compound bow or better yet, a crossbow.

You have killed innocent animals for your videos. I'll never visit your channel again and I'll also try to show these cruelty to everyone. you should have to try non-livings but you didn't. You'll pay for this very soon.

While stringing my bow just before I go shooting I automatically check that my bow string is more on my favoured side of the bow. Until now I never really thought about it but yes: people in former times might just like you told have done it automatically because it was making things easier.