By my count, that Battleship cost Eagle over $70k+ over this game. He could have gotten a LOT of Battle Copters, Tanks, and a Bomber or two for that price.
Mangs intro for the match : "Did you guys know that you can acces DoR style battleships on AWBY ?" Proceeds to show a match where no battleship moves from a port :D Amazing match, as always!
20% of a B.Ship is 5600 G. That's more than 25% of Kantbei's income each time a SCOP or copter hits it. To compensate the ship would need to destroy an entire arty each turn.
Yeah it was definitely a lowkey throw. I remember watching a Deejus replay review where the exact same thing happened, just this pesky BCopter firing away at a Battleship stuck on a port turn after turn. Ridiculous economic damage.
Honestly Kantbei's battleship hurt him more than it helped him. Since all it really did was push Monty back into a more defensive position that he was eventually going to do and force him to build infantry at that base every turn. Why also costing him 5600 every time a bcop attacked it or a winter fury went off. While Monty's battleship made Kantbei waste multiple units turn to take it down.
Been binging your videos lately as I recently got back into AW2, which was a childhood fave for me, and I just love the description of units harassing other units 🤣 idk why it just makes me chuckle And Eagle just being absolutely broken with the double turn has always been one of my favorite thigns
I love how even when its bae insted of bei he still says bye. I almost didn't even notice the player's play on words with kantbae vs kanbei if it weren't for Mangs' iron will with his gimmick.
Since I am studying higher level games (both are at least 1200s, so they are learning advanced level play) and this is a new one, here's my point analysis: Part 1 (to 28:00) 1:12 Kantbei maintains alts based on the mode he plays. Kantbae is his standard-focused alt, but I like your interpretation better. 1:38 Wacky openings is probably why many don't like this map. A lot of variations, but only a few that reliably work, and you need to know why. Not as intuitive as some other maps like Celeste. 2:25 A 5k investment in a transport can sometimes OK, but it is the subsequent use of the T Copter that is questionable on this map. This map is not large, your infantry will take 3 turns to reached the comm tower and other contested areas, so a T Copter is not exactly value adding. It is also standard so your foe can see it and punish it too. Labs are just there to give terrain bonuses. You can plonk an arty there (esp as Lash) to hold the line or just defend a capping infantry on the mountain property. Could be countered against a B Copter, but if you use it to lure, you can get some good plays. 5:22 Sacrifice plays are something I have been looking into. Risky though so you must be certain it will work. As far as I know, it is only with Eagle that you want to consider this as a first possibility? With other COs, ehhh, you might face issues. 9:43 I remember Kantbei telling me as much about the city skip when I was reviewing my game on this map. I need to pull up that comment again and assess, something about funding curves or contested properties in this case. I think it works here based on planning. 10:59 Keen to see how artillery is planned for and used here. 13:24 Recommend this too. It also complicates move plannering. 21:10 It looks wack, but both players are at the level where some level of personal experimentation is not only permissive, it is also required. 24:15 "Battle Shipters"
Forward ports that an attacking player can use for a battleship turret are a very handy tool for mapmakers who want to prevent players from stalling on a weak flank. Some of y'all might want to keep that in mind if you're making a map for the contest!
Almost every one of your videos you'll explain how effective repairs are but begin with "Normally repairs are bad but--". I like how you're finally just admitting that repairs are worth it :D
@@leonidasrose2060 More than anything I'm just teasing him a bit. He's actually been really clear on his stance on repairs from the beginning, that they're good when you can get them but don't pull a unit back out of the fray for 5 days to get them, which I more or less agree with. It's just one of those things he does a lot, so when he does it you're like "he's doing it lol"
@@leonidasrose2060 To be fair, so many RU-vid comments are pure poison it's honestly a fair assumption to just assume someone is just being a cock when their tone is uncertain lol
Great game. Think kantbae was looking to cap the hq, Using lightning strike to take out anything near the hq and using the overwhelming amount of infantry in the middle to block.
So, the double winter fury hurt Eagle significantly. If you look at the unit value, Olaf had about 40% more value for several turns there. As such, Kantbae was pushing the envelope as much as possible, using lightning strike to threaten his opponent without actually using it, in the hopes that he would be able to turn things around when he eventually would use it. At this point, this was his last lightning strike anyway, so he needed to get as many units built as possible before using it. Unfortunately for him, he underestimated Olaf's ability to get Winter Fury that last turn (perhaps because of the battle copter sacking?), and that was the end.
I don't know why, but Mangs consistently going "Om nom nom nom nom nom nom" makes me chuckle every damn time its basically my new favorite way of describing kills when playing either AWBW or my own Tabletop games like Horus Heresy or something lol
It is really interesting how you can see that each player's armies become exhausted over time. At a point, they get close to 150k, but that nearly halves after the big push
Anti-air couldn't have reached the bcopter (7 tiles away), but I think what Kantbei saw was that the further AA on the left could've gotten the 8hp inf, then the tank gotten first strike on the tank in the forest, and then you've got 2 AA's threatening your bcopter in the middle, your tank is down to 2/3hp, and you've very little to reinforce (only one tank on a city on the left and an AA on the comm tower to the right) against 2 AA'S, 1 (maybe 2) tanks and 2 bcopters, forcing you to pull back and shift your whole front or risk getting overwhelmed. But this is just what I see.
I know that most players in this game would rather die in real life by setting themselfs on fire than build a missile, but i think that in this case it would be a good value. Kantbae already had a battleship so why not? Put a missle behind it and let it cover the area from helicopters so the ship can move into the sea and push the enemy back, instead of just shooting infantry and being repaired constantly.
But then you're throwing 40k in two units, both of which are very vulnerable and only one of which is marginally useful. The missile can be got easily at the slightest mispositioning by a sacrificial bcopter, and then your bship is vulnerable again AND you traded 12k for 9k. Add to that the travel time for the missile (two turns to get in position), the fact it has no flexibility at all, and that you *could* instead get two bcopters and a freakin' bomber for the same amount, and yeah... Getting a missile to cover the bship is really more akin to throwing good money after bad than anything else. You might even call it... a sunk cost fallacy. 8-)
@@gabraeld Yea, the best decision would be to not build that battleship at all. No ship, no missile, a lot of money for airforce. But he did built it and wasn't even trying to protect from helicopters untill the very end, and lost more than 40k on repairs alone.
I wasn't expecting to like this match so much! I couldn't tell who'd win right until the last couple of turns! I could swear the battleships that Monty built were massive blunders that would cost him the match. I couldn't believe my eyes when the power pressure suddenly changed from one player to the other.
Here's an idea for a future series: Path of Radiance canonical level run: Every single character must finish the game at the level which they start it in Radiant Dawn. So for example Jill starts at level 8 in PoR and at 14 in Radiant Dawn. So you're only allowed to use her for those 6 levels. Rolf, meanwhile starts PoR at level 1, and Radiant Dawn at promoted level 1. So you can only use him until he's promoted, then leave him at level 1. Bonus points for making it an Ironman
At around 40 minutes, I think he joined the infantry because he had an empty base and not enough to build an infantry. What you're saying about joining not being bad against Olaf is true, but I think it's also even better because it allowed him to get out an extra full health unit and not skip building anything from the base.
Not entirely. He joins three times there. Two times he shoves a 3hp infantry into an 8hp infantry, and once he shoves 8hp into another 8hp. He has 700¢, so the two 3hp folds would only give him 200¢ together, while the 8hp alone gave him 600¢, so more than enough. Since he did the two 300¢ joins first, it's possible he was trying to get the 300¢ he was missing, did the two joins for 100¢ each, then realised the only join he had left was the 8hp. But considering his level, I think the two 3hp joins were for tactical reasons to prevent a wall break, and the 8hp join was the only one done for income reasons.
I stomped Eagle in frostleaf as olaf because of that he got lightning strike before my winter fury.he popped it straight away bcz if he Didn't next turn I would use my scop.that lightning strike did nothing
I've been trying to get into Advance Wars By Web thanks to you Mangs, but I find myself struggling. I feel like I am not learning anything and I'm getting destroyed seemingly every game. It's quite disheartening and I'm starting to lose some of the desire to play...but watching you upload stuff like this makes me think it could still work out.
Insane skill ceiling and huge gulf in skill player to player; not to mention, a la OG Doom, serious players have literally had 20 years to git gud. Don't be discouraged, as hard as that seems.
I'm a nooblet who has yet to play his first match. My username is AppleKappa on AWBW, add me if you want a practice partner who is guaranteed to be completely lost and clueless.
Part 2 (to end) 33:21 Here it is! 36:08 Smart move. It looks passive, but it covers the key areas and then asserts the attack. 40:41 AGAIN 46:28 Kantbei's 2b is looking very weak. 47:14 Funds damage from repairs can ruin build plans significantly. 48:05 It's not just that the power is too far off, his machine units are also not strong enough to make decisive kills too, which really impacts LS's effectiveness. All the funds damage (5.6k per turn off 18k, which basically goes from 1 tank 1 bcopter 2 infantry to just... well, 1 b copter 2 infantry with change, less impressive) on the battleship will deny him vehicles that could have channelled into a LS push. 49:52 ANOTHER ONE 51:17 I would say Kantbei can have reasonable confidence in his play here. Literally 3-1 advantage. 51:43 Nah, there is a shoal there that allows for free vehicle movement. I think he wants to preserve AA in view of the 2 tanks. If it is regarding the SW property, I don't think anything threatens it, so nothing to reinforce there... 52:47 Which failed. 53:09 That B Copter is a very strategic one. It may not win any tactical engagements, but wars are won by moves like this in coordination with others, especially on a map like Michigan Manouevre. 54:22 Understandable. He has few funds to build more units, and while infantry is useful, this composition is very infantry heavy, which does not favour Lightning strike and is countered hard by almost all unit types.
Overal Kantbae I think lost because he had too many Infanty (i know controversal statment) but considering the attacking units Monty had usually pairs of Anti-air Tank and occasional Arty. compared to 5 infantry and 1 tank. He wasnt matching his opponents power at all. The battle copters sure could have swung the battle but Monty was countering perfectly with Anti airs that serve'd two purposes. Ward away B-copters and ward away the amas of infantry. I think if Kantbae instead of a battleship got a bomber we would have had a much closer match if not a potential winning move. And yes Olaf would have countered with a fighter eventually. But if he had matched tank for tank and anti-air for anti-air that Blue moon fighter would have had a tough go of getting to the bomber. The biggest thing that probably lost him the match was indeed the meme battleship. Tho it was a good move in theory it only acted as a super ranged arty in power. Every 2HP drain cost him almost 6K every turn in additon to the few turns Blue had that property in the bottom left captured. Btw mangz 20% done easy. move the decimal x2. 28000 goes to 2800 (10%), and then x2 its basicallly 3000X2. So 6000 - 400. so..yeah thats 5600 funds being drained every turn. That b-copter harrassment even if it got shot down right after, almost earned itself in!
Eagle Battleships are nothing next to Indirect Bombers. Thank god Flak is banned in the Global league. Maybe after this game they will consider banning Eagle for his broken Battleships. ok maybe that was too much sarcasm for the internet but idc. :D
