I really don't see the point of the E150HE-44 as a subwoofer. When using it in a ported or passive-radiator type enclosure, you end up with a design that is far from compact. When you need about ~0.5 cu ft of air-space, you might as well use either an 8 or 10" driver in a sealed box instead. Especially with DSP and class-D amplifiers becoming so cheap, it's easy to EQ a 8" or 10" driver to the point where it easily outperforms the E150HE-44. It only makes sense in my opinion when used in a compact 2-way floor-standing speaker design, where the high voice coil inductance can be used to ease the crossover design. I do hope that some of the engineering that went into the E150HE-44 will be used to improve bigger drivers (8 to 12").
You're talking about a "Rule of Thumb." In reality you can design a subwoofer anyway that you want as long as it works. The only way to know for sure it to model it, which I did. Two smaller PR's would have trouble keeping up with this driver. It nearly maxes out these 8" PR's. Watch the "Digging Deeper" video to find out why.
I was wondering the same thing! That diaphragm bounces more than any driver I've seen, especially for only 5.5 inches. I've only seen it in one other application and I'm itching to put it in something. Yours looks fantastic and I'm sure it sounds as good as it looks.
Magnífico trabajo mi querido amigo......Toda una obra de arte......Enhorabuena......Un gran abrazo desde Las Islas Canarias (España)........................................
Hey, thanks a lot for the compliment! I'm glad you enjoyed the video. I hope to have another video coming out in a week or so. Another start to finish build. ¡Oye, muchas gracias por el cumplido! Me alegro de que hayas disfrutado el vídeo. Espero tener otro video que sale en una semana más o menos. Otro comienzo para terminar de construir.
This is the first video I have seen on this driver. I wanted to use it in a project but didn't know what to do with it. Thanks for the video! Looks like a total beast as the specs would suggest.
I am very interested in this project - I have been looking for a relatively compact subwoofer to pair with my desk speakers which have a sub out. Is there a decent plate amplifier that could be paired with this system?
I would recommend the Dayton Audio SPA300D subwoofer plate amp: www.parts-express.com/Dayton-Audio-SPA300-D-300-Watt-Class-D-Subwoofer-Plate-Amplifier-300-806 I've played with it and it's a powerhouse and it's fairly compact. Should be plenty of juice for this, or the 7" version.
Great video. I've been looking to build something with an EPIQUE driver and your design fits perfectly into my needs. Ok, desires. I really like the veneer. Since it's man-made, does it come in colors? That could create a psychedelic vibe.
I got it from AliExpress, who knows what they've got for sale... take a peek! I liked working with this stuff, it was super thin. Thanks, glad you liked it!
I do see matching 5.5" PRs available, if you had to do a version 2 version with these how many 5.5 PRs would be optimal and what would be the net cubic volume? Or what software can I use to help calculate this? Im very interested in what you could do in a v2. Thanks!
I have a pair of the matching 5.5" PR's and I'm still fiddling around with it, so I hesitate to say for sure. Truth is, the matching PR's don't tune quite as low as I was hoping. Probably decent for music, but I hoped for a touch lower. I use WinISD now to design boxes and it's not too hard to pick up. Check out Toids Audio explanation on how to get started: ru-vid.com/video/%D0%B2%D0%B8%D0%B4%D0%B5%D0%BE-Ol7K5wQrFAg.html He knows what he's doing. Just so you know, I'm working on a shoebox size enclosure for this, but It's going to be more like an F3 of 50 Hz instead of 35 Hz.
@@zarboaudioprojects1430 I would be very interested how you couldnt yet reach lower than 50hz yet but Ill let you try your theories out first. Could a third matching 5.5 PR help? Thx 🙏
@@chokechange A third "might" help -- I don't know, haven't modeled it -- but that's further than I would go with it since you can get deeper bass with two non-matching PR's similar to the original Epique small cube build. These PR's just don't have the specs to go really low in a small box. And if I'm not going small with these things, I don't really see the point too much over using an 8" or 10" sub driver.
@@zarboaudioprojects1430 I understand. Yes the 2 8” PRs you used is alot more area than the 2 matching 5.5” PRs, looks like the 777 project might have worked out better with the matching PRs overall
I love the video, but I have one remark. You missd the perfect opportunity to couple the radiators' baskets. This would cancel the vibrations from the box almost completely. You'd be left with just vibrations from the driver, which can be. reduced by coupling it's magnet to the corners of the box. If you couple it to the rear wall, you'll get a tiny change in directivity, which can also be good. At the same time, with just two braces, you make the box a lot stiffer.
Excellent observation... I wondered if anyone would mention that. I did consider it, but decided against attempting it after the first PR went berserker on me. I like your way of thinking! Thank you for watching and commenting!
I'm an amateur in acoustic knowledge however, I keep hearing passive radiators have some of the highest group delays of the enclosure types. I imagine this to sound like the late arrival of the notes according to the time it is supposed to be in the recording. Can you say if you can detect any delays in the frequencies that are met or enhanced by the passive radiators? Can the sound appear muddy? Or does it blend in well with the rest of the sound overall?
I can't really tell a difference between vented and PR enclosures. Maybe if I schooled myself in what group delay sounds like so I could look out for it I would hear more of it, but I would rather not look for issues when I don't hear any. If you think about the excursion map of the PR and driver, and look at the frequencies where the PR is taking over most of the load, it is usually fairly low in frequency, the driver starts to move less lower in frequency and the PR moves more. Frequencies that low are not easy to determine tiny changes in arrival time, at least without trying hard to HEAR that it's happening. But short story for me... PR enclosures seem to sound just as a Vented in my opinion.
@@zarboaudioprojects1430 Thank you so much for your feedback. I've never built a passive radiator system as yet but I love the benefits I see and hear about. I definitely will pursue it. Your build looked awesome.
Good question! Parts express/Dayton Audio have traditionally built their speaker drivers to deal with the more rugged environment of car audio going back to the Reference Line, which has held up pretty well in those use scenarios. I suspect the Epique line will also be fine in the car environment. I've heard of a few folks using them in car audio, but it really hasn't been long enough since their introduction to reveal their longevity. They DO have dual 4 ohm coils, so getting a 2 ohm load will be pretty nice for car sub use I guess. Short answer: Just going off of how they've designed their non-Car-Audio specific drivers in the past, I suspect these will do fine. Thanks for watching and commenting!
I wonder how this performs against a decent 8" sub with the same 2 rads in that box... With the exact same footprint, I'm not sure what the point of this is
Fun, that's the point... and amazing performance. Try not to 'see the driver as a particular size, but as delivering a high level of performance with low distortion. If it works, and works well, then that is the point.
That's great to hear, Wes. I don't think you will be disappointed. It would be great to see pictures of your project. I don't have my own website, but feel free to post pics on the Parts Express Tech Talk forum of it once you get going. techtalk.parts-express.com/forum/tech-talk-forum/1479124-epique-e150he-44-small-cube-subwoofer-project Thanks for watching and for leaving a comment.
Hi tomzarbo, nice to be the 675 subscribers of your youtube channel to meet you through your videos, wow, very manly, the PE forum photo should be updated.
@@zarboaudioprojects1430 Thank you!.. just wanna build 2 small bass cubes to go with my monitors on my pc. i think the passive radiator will be better for near field listening VS vented
PE website shows it's expected back in by the end of this month (July 2022) And... don't know if you saw these, but there are matching passive radiators on the way: www.parts-express.com/Epique-E150HE-PR-5.5-Carbon-Fiber-Cone-Passive-Radiator-295-112 Not 100% sure what they will cost, but looks to be about $35/each for the small Epique sub, and $40/each for the larger Epique sub. I don't know the specs yet, but I'm figuring on being able to do less than a 10" cube with the smaller PR's. I'm considering doing a sub build with the larger 7" Epique and 2 PR's if they model well in a small box, along with Dayton's new 300 watt class-D sub plate amp.
@@zarboaudioprojects1430 That's good to hear, and amazing to hear they are pairing a passive line for them. At not a bad price either if they go with that. Will definitely be dropping by to see that if you upload that. Currently building a portable bluetooth speaker with a friend, then seen this beast get released. So now just waiting to see if anything else would pair well with it while we wait. Mainly hoping for a high power board with onboard DSP. Otherwise going to have to stick with the TSA7500B. Although this year has been pretty good with new equipment.
Hey! I did use weights on the two PRs. techtalk.parts-express.com/forum/tech-talk-forum/1479124-epique-e150he-44-small-cube-subwoofer-project. This is a link to the Parts Express forum post where I explain what I did. Short story, I added 100 grams of weight to each PR. Thanks for watching!
@@zarboaudioprojects1430 Thank you for your answer! I want to install 165mm passive radiators in a three-way speaker. Since the speaker is small, I cannot install a larger passive radiator....
Maybe model this PR from SB Acoustics. I know of someone who used one of these with the smaller Epique and it seemed to work well for him. www.madisoundspeakerstore.com/passive-radiators/sb-acoustics-sb15sfcr-00-5x8-passive-radiator/ @@gl328
@@markkeaton8132 Hey, hang in there. I know you know different things are harder for some folks than others for whatever reason. It took me YEARS to begin to get measurements and crossover theory... literally years. It's just super hard for my brain to understand. If you get your hands dirty with it and jump in, I believe you can make some progress. Maybe find another person who can be the other 'head' as in two heads are better than one. Thanks for watching!
I have a friend that lives in Australia, and after hearing what it costs to have things shipped to him, I was just flabbergasted. Forget the cost of the item, shipping it down under is crazy expensive!
I didn't catch it, what's the tuning point of this box? I have 2 15" Ultimax and wife is not happy to say the least, she wants it out of the living room lol!
The tuning is around 42 Hz. It's not an infrasonic monster by any means. It can hold it's own against any small-ish subwoofer, but if you're used to two 15" Ultimax subs, this might not scratch the itch well enough. For a little more size and another step deeper in bass and output, maybe check out my 'Tenacious Bass 8' subwoofer build: projectgallery.parts-express.com/uncategorized/the-tenacious-bass-6-and-8-subwoofers/ It's a legit subwoofer that can hit the low notes with some authority in a fairly small box. Thanks for the comment and for watching.
I didn't know Bob Villa built speak cabinets 😁 In this episode of this old basement I will be showing you viewers at home how to build a home speaker cabinet step by step & with what tools & materials to use. Thanks Tom your video, audio, tutorial, editing are top notch. Don't listen or respond to the know it all or haters. Instead just keep making new projects & these awesome videos 👌 I'm glued to your channel 😬😬
Thanks a lot for that encouragement. I really do appreciate it. This RU-vid stuff is hard! :) I'm hoping for another similar build soon with the big brother of this driver.
Using contact cement would create vibe absorbing layers between the sheets of material, it dries tacky. Prob not a prob for a box that small, but, couldn't hurt.
Hey, sorry I didn't see this comment for some reason. Interesting idea. I've heard of other guys using absorbing material between layers but never did so myself. In the follow-up video 'Digging Deeper' there is a thumbnail of me sitting on the cabinet... I really did sit on it at full-power, and you can feel the energy this thing is producing. It feels like you're sitting on a small-block Chevy engine at idle. No vibes from the skin of the enclosure, just the sense of powerful energy and mass in motion. Thanks for the comment.
I like this build. The op even laminates his own sheets prior to built. Thats one way to more get consistency through the final sheet. As well as the mentioned extra strength. I found one local place to get Baltic birch genuine but its 2x cost.
Just shooting from the hip here... but If I were using the E180 as dual subs/woofers at the bottom, I'd shoot for a more Midrange-oriented tMww driver instead of a high-excursion mid driver like this 5.5 inch'er. Not that it wouldn't work, but I think you'd get more clarity with a dedicated midrange. It would look cool, though!
I can't say for sure as I haven't modeled it sealed -- I don't do car audio. Parts Express lists these specs for possible box scenarios: Sealed Volume 0.12ft³ Sealed F3 79Hz Vented Volume 0.25ft³ Vented F3 41Hz With cabin gain, and the shallower roll-off with sealed cabinets, I think you may be able to use this... you'd just have to model this driver and find a way to model the cabin gain in your particular car. It's surprising how much of a boost cabin gain can give you in the lower registers, though.
Yes they do. Usually that job is handled in the amplifier, either in a plate amp, or in the self-contained small subwoofer amp that I used for this project. Without a crossover at 60-120 Hz or so the sound will be muddy and very bad. You only really want very low bass frequencies coming from your subwoofer. Also, if higher frequencies are reproduced from a single sub driver, it will muddy the stereo effect.
I hear you. In my experience WinISD is usually spot-on as far as frequency response goes so I basically assume the modeled response will be close enough to the actual to not be an issue. Things also become more complex when trying to combine the response of one active driver and two passive radiators. Not to mention the room has SO much impact on the actual response so as to really change what we're hearing. I may add some actual measurements to future projects if I can do so without taking too much time up in the video... viewers don't like long videos I'm finding out. : ) Thanks for the comment and suggestion!
Hey Miro. I clean mine off when I'm finished by first rolling it onto a piece of old cardboard box to get the bulk of glue off... then I wash it under warm water to get the residual glue off. A bit will stay stuck to the roller, and it will get a 'patina' on it, but it will still work fine. I've had the one you saw in the video for literally years and have veneered dozens and dozens of projects on it... still applies glue perfectly! Thanks for the comment.
Good question. The enclosure would have to be bigger if a second driver was added. Also, the passive radiators would likely need to be upgraded as these are close to, or at their excursion limits with certain material. Unless you went isobaric, then your box would be only slightly larger, that's a lot of money for the bass output, though.
Hey Max JBL, I'm sorry I missed this comment. Check out this forum link to the write up online: techtalk.parts-express.com/forum/tech-talk-forum/1479124-epique-e150he-44-small-cube-subwoofer-project It should tell you more details. Basically it's a 9" cube inside dimensions with the Epique driver recessed. The PR's are surface mounted with no recess. Add 120 Grams to each PR. Enjoy!
For 25 bucks more there's the 7-in. What modifications would you make using that driver over the 5 and 1/2-in? I was thinking maybe like a 13-in square? Driver's listed xmax is 14.7 mmx but it look like you were pushing that way beyond it! I don't know a lot about passive readers, but that seems like a lot of passive cone area used there? I would be using (2) Dayton Audio RSS265-PR 10 on a single 7-in Epique potentially. Does this sound like a good combo and size? Or do you have a better idea with this combo? Thanks!
Howdy, I'm in the process of constructing a cabinet using the Epique 7" with two matching 7" Passive Radiators. I'll hold off on sharing too many details until I actually hear how it works, but I'm shooting for a cabinet size a smidge smaller that your very-good guess. Hoping to be putting out that video sometime next weekend. Stay tuned!
@@zarboaudioprojects1430 Thanks! I wonder if a single 10 passive will suffice. I feel 2 might be overkill but IDK. I feel plenty of sealed and ported and even a couple of bandpass, but never used passives before
@@BARBELLS-AND-BUDS It's possible that one 10" PR would work, likely even. It may not cost less though depending on which one you use... and with two smaller PR's you get the benefit of cancellation of vibration by using two opposed PR's. Plus I just wanted to use the matching PR's :) It's all about how you want to build it. If it works, and you like how it looks... it's good! If you want to model a PR for fun, many say it's good to model a ported box for your intended driver, and save that, then model the PR enclosure with the same dimensions, and you should be able to get similar results with a PR... that can tell you if you're on the right track with the PR design.... many do model a driver in vented first. Thank you for your comments!
I hope you like it once finished. I'm really enjoying it so far. Feel free to post pics of your build on the PE Tech Talk forum if you want: techtalk.parts-express.com/forum/tech-talk-forum/1479124-epique-e150he-44-small-cube-subwoofer-project Thanks for commenting and watching my video.
Punching out a precise location on a panel for drilling a hole makes it easier to find that exact center point. It takes a few seconds to do so it's cheap insurance against having a hole off-center.
@@zarboaudioprojects1430 The center punch doesn't do much with an already pointed wood drill like I already wrote, just place the drill accurately. Completely different situation with metal and even there it's a small aid at best, the drill can still wander off.
@@penttijakonen3817 I guess maybe for you it 'doesn't do much,' but it does something for me, and that's why I do it. It only takes a few seconds to center punch a hole, and if it could help someone -- and remember, I'm making these videos for people of ALL skill levels -- then it's worth doing. If you don't need it, then don't do it.
@@zarboaudioprojects1430 Well, we just need to agree to disagree. Metal drills don't have a sharp tip, that's why one might use a center punch there. In wood, I completely fail to see why it's easier to punch a mark than just simply place the drill's sharp tip accurately and start drilling. It's all cool, use the punch if you feel it helps.
I've never measured it, but I tend to think so. When I give a panel made with 4 laminated sheets of HDF when compared to a regular piece of 1/2" MDF, the HDF panel has a higher pitch to it, which is better I think. I would probably just use regular 1/2" MDF if I made another, though. That was a lot of extra work! :)
@@zarboaudioprojects1430 thanks, i will try it myself with a small test enclosure for a subwoofer. I read that the stiffer the cabinet the higher the resonance frequency( is that what you mean with pitch ? ) i already made a piece of 2 x 4.5 mm MDF because i needed 9 mm and this is as stiff as 15 mm!!
@@roygriend5143 Right. The higher the pitch, or resonance frequency, the higher up in frequency it will tend to 'ring' and if you can get it high enough, it will be out of the range of what the subwoofer will 'excite' while in operation.
Translated from Portuguese: I have a 6.5 inch woffer, do you recommend I use 2 16cm radiators in a how many liters box? Answer: That's really impossible to answer without specifications for both the woofer and passive radiators. You would need to model it in a program such as WinISD; which is free by the way. Answer in Portuguese: Isso é realmente impossível de responder sem especificações tanto para o woofer quanto para os radiadores passivos. Você precisaria modelá-lo em um programa como o WinISD; que é grátis por sinal.
@@zarboaudioprojects1430 creio que ele trabalha com fs de 55hetz,e o radiador passivo é aqueles comprados na China de borracha com chapa de metal..Você poderia fazer um projeto pra min? Ficaria grato!
@@wandersonuhuu5902 Translation in English: I believe it works with 55hetz fs, and the passive radiator is those bought in China made of rubber with sheet metal. Could you do a project for me? I would be grateful! Answer: Wanderson, I appreciate the interest, and faith you have in me, but I don't think I would be able to design anything that would sound decent with drivers and passive radiators without any specs. There's a lot more to it than that. Check out this video by Toids DIY Audio on how to use WinISD to design passive radiator speakers: ru-vid.com/video/%D0%B2%D0%B8%D0%B4%D0%B5%D0%BE-sG_8qgSjUqE.html Best of luck! Resposta: Wanderson, agradeço o interesse e a fé que você tem em mim, mas não acho que seria capaz de projetar algo que soasse decente com drivers e radiadores passivos sem especificações. Há muito mais do que isso. Confira este vídeo da Toids DIY Audio sobre como usar o WinISD para projetar alto-falantes de radiador passivo: ru-vid.com/video/%D0%B2%D0%B8%D0%B4%D0%B5%D0%BE-sG_8qgSjUqE.html Boa sorte!
Thanks Howard! I was just thinking about the time I met you in the hotel conference room attending Jeff Bagby's seminar on PCD. You and me both had lost looks on our faces, and I don't know about you, but I never did quite master it, although I did make some progress. There was a pretty heavy snowstorm going on at the time and I witnessed 3 or 4 accidents driving home the next day. One guy in a pickup truck did a few 360's right in front of our car... no contact though. What a bunch of speaker-heads we were/are. About this little sub driver, it's got an apt name, it really is Epic. For it's size it is astounding. Thanks for the comments. It's encouraging.
i think u should use 2 x 6inch passive radiators with a 5inch driver. Not 8inch. Usually u just double the driver cone area. So 2 x 5inch passive radiators or maximum 2 x 6inch passive radiators
As I understand it, that rule would generally apply if you could find two 5 inch or two 6 inch passive radiators that can match the drivers excursion capabilities. The X-max on this one is quite a bit more than most drivers this size.
@@kevinkendrick3954 if u can't find passive radiators of the same size(5inch) with the same excursion then u can use the 6inch ones even with lower excursion. 2x 8inch for small 5inch it's overkill and not effective
@@HowDareYouu I know Tom well enough to know he ran simulations on the PR's he knew were available. If you would care to run a simulation using one of your suggestions, I'm sure he would be open to suggestions.
I respect your opinion, but I can't really understand why you would say I should use two 6" PR's with a 5" driver without modeling it? Kevin alluded to part of the passive radiator rule of thumb above which basically says: you can use one Passive Radiator of the same size as the driver if it has double the excursion capacity, or two PR's of the same size with the same excursion capacity as the driver. But that's just a rule of thumb because it often works that way. It isn't always true. This driver is capable of 14mm under 70% motor control, and a LOT more excursion past that, trust me, it moves a BUNCH. Without modeling a particular combination to see what it can do in the real world, it's just a rule of thumb and nothing more. Two 8" passive radiators for a 5" driver is not effective? Explain why? If the performance is there and it can take a respectable amount of abuse without complaining isn't that what you would consider 'effective?' It seems to work just fine in real life. Overkill? It's a design choice maybe, and I think a good one, but considering the excursion of the Epique driver, not at all overkill. To be honest I did consider modeling two of the 6" designer series PR's in the same line from Parts Express, but I didn't do it because I doubted they would be able to keep up... remember, it's not just the size of the PR and the excursion... you also have to add the correct amount of weight to achieve the response you're looking for, and I think I was bumping up against the limit of these 8" PR's regarding the ratio of excursion/weight they can carry. The 6" PR's would HAVE to move more to do the same work, so I doubt they would work as well as you may think. But go ahead and model it if you care to and feel free to report back with the findings. If it works, then I guess that's an option for you with this driver. I'm not trying to beat you up for having a different opinion... that's fine, but you're making generic statements based on a rule of thumb and treating them as authoritative gospel fact, when in reality it appears you didn't model anything, and I actually did design and build this thing in the real world and it works. And pretty good at that. This channel is designed to demonstrate how to create this type of audio related stuff, as well as some of the reasoning behind it... and I really want to make sure what is presented on these videos, as well as the comments, is based on fact and is helpful. Different opinions are fine to state here, please just make it clear you are stating your opinion, not telling everyone that it's fact, and that I did it wrong, when you haven't taken any steps to back up your claims.
