Bullet Seating Depth explained in detail. This is a shout out to Tim for the great questions. I hope this helps explain the seating depths on the bullet selection we offered.
I agree with you. I'm a senior reloader, been doing loading for about 40 years now. You did a very good job on this video. The only thing I disagree with is, I don't believe in ever touching the lance or the rifling at any time. It can be very dangerous because of excessive chamber pressure. I have had some bad experiences on that. I don't care what manufacture you use, it's not a good practice. So as a new viewer or a guy just getting started, please do not even mention touching rifling. Because before you know it new shooters will think it is all right. And it really is not. Thanks for the video, You did a great job on explaining your techniques.
James Sween ridiculous. 40 years ago you didn’t have vld type bullets,so there wasn’t any need to kiss the lands. And as long as the reloader begins his load development with the bullet kissed then overpressure isn’t going to be an issue. So I gotta disagree
Very detailed presentation on bullet seating, especially on seating depths for the different manufacturer’s bullets; there is no one size fits all in reloading.
Have you found discrepancies in OAL to the Ogive, or off the lands measurements due to the difference of bullet diameters at various lengths? I have measured and compared bullets seated at the same setting and find length differences of more than .005. I've attributed the difference to the seating stem making contact at a different datum line on the bullet than the ogive determined by the comparator bushing. The bullet length between these two datum lines is not consistent. I get my best results when using comparator bushing of the same diameter of the seating stem, but the length at the lands datum line will remain incinsistent. The seating stem must be the same diameter as the lands diameter to accomplish consistent lengths or jump at the lands.
Great videos. My question goes to adjusting seating depth. I thought about usin the Redding Competition Shell Holders to adjust seating depth once we he base has been set. Thank you.
Hey VP and others, thought I’d share my load here while on this topic. I’m shooting a savage model 12 .204 24.5 grains of H322 pushing a 39 grain Sierra Blitzking with a seating depth of 1.948 which is roughly .007” off the lands. I shot a 5 shot, roughly, .3” group at 100. I’ll let people chime in on their thoughts whether they think that’s good/bad but I’m happy with it. Good luck and good shooting!
I think the load data found in the books is actually minimum coal. But great video...I have found Sierra shoots amazing at 20-40 thousandths off the lands. I've also found seating is never exact cause brass can have burrs on the head so you seating can change...that's why I shoot 10 1000ths off the lands at the closest...but you are mostly right it depends in your throat, if you want mag usage, and what your twist rate or neck tension and neck length are of the cartridge...it depends how it stabilizes...but thanks for the video...I'm excited about your wild game cooking videos
Excellent thank you very much for the help I run a Dillon press and I'm just going to start loading 243, I ordered the shell plate for my Dillon But I have not ordered dies yet thinking about the Lee precision four die set Thanks again, now to just try to find some bullet heads What's your favorite powder for 243
Love your vids , as far as off the lands , depending on rifle , caliper , etc... I find that my magazine oal is the first i need to check once I find my jam/btog ...That determines my starting point for seating depth/off the lands .Unfortunately alot of manufacturers dont match the mag capacity with the chamber capacity , they tend to be shorter , also the feedramp comes into play , so depending on the length of the bullet Im using , for example , My Bergara B14 in 308, For 168gr Hornady ELDM I have to start .030 for mag clearance and at least .045/.050 off my lands to be able to clear the feedramp when cycling my bolt( same for H168gr Amax or ELDX ) , For 168gr SMK .030 for mag and .040 off the lands for ramp clearance ....(similar for H168gr BTHP) .So for this rifle I find SAMMI spec COAL to work the best , which for this rifle is .065/.075 off my lands . Then I have other rifles I can jam ( which I never do ) or have closer BTOG lengths .Thats where bullet choice is so important and why a rifle may not like certain bullets , some bullets like a close to no jump and other shoot better with a big jump .......So many things to consider . now if your just single firing and not cycling , then its open game on seating , anyway , just my 2 cents on things I take into consideration and choices made .
just remember the Berger Hybrid is 0.015" off the lands. Numerous sources also told me that you should test 0.003-6 off the lands as that is another common sweet spot for many bullets.
I went looking around to figure out why my larger gr Berger bullets are so finicky. Even though I'm running a fast 1:8 twist, they like jam to help guide stable flight. And that's a bit disappointing to me because I have to back off on my charge to keep the pressure tame. Even though with all of that they are my most accurate bullets when I jam them. Good to know that others need to do the same thing and it's not something crazy with my rifle 😁. Thanks man!
I always struggle to figure out what depth to start my initial testing on. I know I must have the bullet seated enough to allow the cartridge to fit mag length. But once I am in that area...I just can't decide how far...farthest or a set increment back. Seems like a lot of guessing for me at least.
About to do my first ladder test of BE-86 in my xd9, little concerned about my taper crimp as I am getting variance from .377-.379, they pass the plunk test & pass my case gauge.
Sitting into the lands or just setting it back only 10/1000 will raise the pressure, right? Maybe no problem in a custom rifle with an upgraded barrel and chamber. But what is that issue about in a factory rifle?
Good stuff as always. I signed up on your patreon as well. I do have a question regarding long range precision. There are so many variables you can tinker with from truing actions, stock/chassis selection, ring/bases, optics, load development etc. Do you have thoughts on the dimishing returns of the various things you can do? Put another way, what order should you spend time/money on to get the best 'bang for the buck' in overall improvement on. Thanks.
I have a 6.5 creedmore, I noticed the Hornady reload book shows different COL for different bullets for the weight. I have some bullets that have cannuls on them and it doesn't come to the lip of the brass when you use the specs for that bullet?
I’ve run into an issue where the magazine wouldn’t accommodate the right length I needed for my lands. There for bullets and lands where way off each other. Never could get this gun to shoot accurate.
No two barrels/chambers/bolts are the same with regard to internal ballistics, so, beginning or casual reloaders should NEVER ever look for the Grail in rules--it will always cost you at least a box or two of bullets to do what you should have been done in the first place--test it yourself. Berger has some instructions on how to empirically test the optimal freebore in your own platform. And, as a disclaimer for that name-dropping, I've never found a Berger bullet that shoots well in my rifles...I'm just stating their (a) method. Start just off the lands and move backwards in 0.030-0.040 steps. You'll see which groups tighten, and that will tell you the answer. That will probably cost you 20 bullets (after you've laddered your best load) and don't be surprised or doubt your observations if you end up in the neighborhood of 0.080-0.100 or more with a run-of-the-mill retail rifle with a nominal (sloppy) chamber. And, once you've gone to all that trouble, and you're proud of all your work, the usual suspect of ambient temperature may roll in and wipe out your best load...It's frustrating stuff punching holes in the same place way down there...
I'm pretty happy If I can maintain 1/2 MOA in a factory barrel. I don't have a very long range to begin with. 300 yards max. But I don't like shooting it because the walk is too long. So 200 yards it is. .85 inch with 3 rounds at 200 yards is what I want to beat.
Thanks for the info..... Was wondering how do you know which insert to use with the bullet comparator. I know which one to use with my .308 but I don't see one in the set for the 30.06. Maybe my set did not come with that caliber.
Ok now has something changed in perception or other? I have always understood that you want the slug to be close to the lands, but that you wanted a certain space between the slug and lands to prevent excessive wear in the throat.
What about when you take 10 measurements of the bullet Ogive length for seating depth with the Hornady tool and the measurements are all slightly different? Do I pick the largest number?
I wonder maybe you could help me on this problem. I just started back reloading after 27 year break, and all of prior exp was pistol loading. So I am trying my first run on a .257 Ackley Imp. using Redding dies with the expander “ball” on the decapping stem in the sizing die. Well after I have decapped and reprimed I go to set the bullet in the case after charging w/powder and I can’t get the bullet to partially seat by hand in the case when I attempt to seat the bullet in the press. I mean I can barely get maybe a hair or so past the boat tail of the bullets I am trying to use, but that’s about it. I have racked my brain/ and the press trying different things for hours on this and can’t get the neck to flare anymore than just a few thousands of an inch and that’s not enough to allow me to get a decent section of the bullet to drop into the case so I can finish it out with the press. Now I am used to pistol cartridges and having a very visible and “large” flare that I can easily hand set the bullet and align before I use the seating die. Are rifle cartridges like this? Meaning you have to almost balance the damn bullet on top of the case and just use the press to basically push (and expand) the neck out with the seating die? I have measured my neck AFTER supposedly expanding it and it appears to me that I am 2-3 thousands of an inch TOO SMALL for the diameter of my .257 caliber bullets. Oh yea, I have tried 4 or 5 different type and brand bullets and still nothing appears to change. Any help would be so appreciated. I am about to drive myself crazy over what I always thought was such an easy and simple phase of reloading. Thanks much!
Thank you for your videos! I recently found your channel and I'm enjoying what I see!. Next I have a question: I recently read an article in which the Author stated to seat the bullet touching the lands when testing to find the max pressure load. I think his goal was to avoid pressure spikes later when he adjusts seating depth. What are your thoughts on this method?
Bryan Jensen I don't like that idea at all. It's ok to work up to the length on the lands but that could be a deadly idea to find pressure. I always start at factory specs and work toward the lands at .005 increments. If I see pressure at all, I stop. That being said, I do shoot many loads on the lands, Berger bullets are usually most accurate on the lands. Just work your way up to that.
I thought seating on the lands will generate high pressure. Best to start with at least .005 off to play it safe. Even some highly advanced reloaders will go more to play it safe .
What are the chances of stabilizing 108g eld in my win model 70 .243win 24" 1:10 twist? I just got 95g Berger vld an haven't shot them yet. Got all the OAL measuring tools an am excited to try them out. How high are the possibilities that I could have problems with longer/heavier bergers? I've watched a few of your videos an appropriate the knowledge your willing to share!👍🏽
Cameron Schmidt thanks for watching.! Stabilizing those would be 95% impossible out of a 1-10 twist, barrel length doesn't matter as much. Stranger thing have happened but I wouldn't waste my money to try them in that. Your best suited for 87gr and under.
@@vaughnprecision I know my Hornady reloading manual states that only up to 100 grains of their brand bullets, and anything heavier requires at least a 1:8 twist barrel for the .243 WIN. Of course they are probably also trying to sell as many bullets >87-100 grain as possible, however even if not perfectly stabilized?
So measuring to the ogive isn’t 100 percent necessary if just making some plinking rounds for the range right? In my rifle reloading class we loaded 223 and just measured to the tip. He told us measuring to the ogive is more of a precision reloading thing and he has a more intermediate class where he would go over all of that stuff and that measuring to the tip is fine for range ammo. I do find this to be very interesting though and can’t wait to incorporate it into my reloading once I become more experienced.
I always like your videos its funny how many people find different things in reloading.. I have loaded for 30 plus cartridges over the years (too many) and shot mostly sierras and Noslers all hunting bullets and almost all touching the lands to 5 thou jam and at the upper end of powder loads, and if I was up to the task, shot many bug hole groups from 17 to .338 its only recently that I have tried moving bullets back in to the cases some successful some not that's reloading and shooting for you.. please keep up the great videos
Get a Lee "classic handloader" buy the cheapest copper jacket FMJ's and the right powder for the bullet weight. Copy the overall length of factory loads in that weight bullet. Load to the standard power ratings for safety. Practice.
I use to load 22-250 and jammed my rounds into the rifling. Never worried about seating depth, because I was using the rifling to seat my bullet. I could shoot groups well under .5 MOA, and without pressure signs. This was back before the Internet, so all we had to go on was word of mouth, and the occasional magazine article.
Clint Smith I do have some. They work and I do like them but I prefer the Lee dies over the expensive die sets. With the Lee dies, I’m able to get the same or better loaded rounds vs the high dollar stuff. Just my 2 cents
Hello. I enjoy your videos a lot! I have done some reloading many years ago and would like to get back into it. From your wealth of knowledge and what you said in this video, I might assume that my 30-06 cartridge tipped with a 165gr. Sierra SBT Game King bullet should be COAL according to Sierra specs. Is that a good starting point for COAL or is that the be all end all for COAL. I shoot a 1980's Rem. Sportsman 78. Thanks a bunch.
Carl Rasmussen it’s a great place to start. Then if you want to, you could find the length to the lands and seat the bullet out a little further, usually past the specs. Just do so with caution and look for pressure signs.
This vide helps a lot because I don't yet have all the technical equipment to do this in the extreme. I think it's the fact that I was laid off due to the "plandemic". I had most of the components and equipment previous to this "crises".....
When a bullet is marked with a cantilever (such as Hornady Interlock) is that the mark to seat for? It seems that is the only depth that will smoothly chamber into my 30.06 but well below the maximum depth listed on the schematic.
what of maybe, freebore? as my rem mod 7 , 308 touching lands ,bullet is about out of the case , leaving only .1 for crimp, say so come in .3 and that's a ton of jump. What gives w that? 6 different common bullets, speer, sierra, hornady , nosler, and weights as well .
So, my girlfriend bought some bullets that she thought would work in my DE, but they turned out to be 500SW bullets. I decided to try to get them to load, and with a *very* high and heavy crimp they will hold in place and dry cycle. However, I am worried to fire them because the bullet is seated so deep, crimped so heavily, and crimped so high up. I squeezed every little bit of length I could so it will barely still fit in the mag. I am using 21gr of Acc #9, starline brass, cci 350s, and a sierra .500 350gr JHP. All I need to know is if it is safe. It chambers and is .5gr under max charge for that bullet weight. I am new to reloading and have only done 50 so far with speer tmj bullets, so I figured I'd ask someone with more expertise since I have never done this loading or had this problem before.
If all the specs are under max according to whatever book your reading from they should be fine. I say that with caution because I’m not the one loading them though
Vaughn, came across this video. When you say by the spec or to SAAMI spec or to max overall length, how far off the lands do you think that is? Just curious. Seems to be for the most precise reloads, its all about the ogive measurement to the lands.
Each of those bullets you show is going to have a different cbot. I think. So wouldn't you want to determine the cbot for each and then decide where you want to seat the bullet with respect to the land
I have a 32 WS model 94 shooting (lever gun)a 170 grain flat nosed bullet(factory) the Lee handbook states that min oal should be 2.565 inches. I measured the overall length of the factory loads and they measure 2.483-2.504 so they are anywhere between .077 and .061 short of the min recommended length according to LEE is that safe? Thanks for the video.
boatbuilder1 I would say yes, I’ve found Lee to be very good for information. That being said, other manufacturers create their specs and they also seem to work fine. I’d be very surprised if it was unsafe
Are you using the Hornady modified case to measure the OAL to seat on the lands? If so, when you load neck sized fire formed cases the cases are a different length so you will have the wrong calculation for the seating depth. The fire formed case will be longer than the Hornady modified case so it will be further away from the lands. See ru-vid.com/video/%D0%B2%D0%B8%D0%B4%D0%B5%D0%BE-whln3B3DFAY.html at 18:00.
toy collector yes, this is true by .003-.005 case difference. However it’s going to work for most people. I just did a new video a couple weeks ago on making your own fire formed cases and the difference between the two.
@@vaughnprecision So is it being said that if a non fire formed modified case is used it will give a shorter head to OGIVE measurement? I wonder where my brasses length from head to shoulder will be after it’s been fired and shoulder bumped back .002” as I plan to do in practice? With this said, I wonder if the stock Hornady modified case will be plenty accurate for measurement? I will have to measure a fired case from head to shoulder with bump gauge once it’s bumped back .002” and compare with the stock Hornady modified case and then I should know more precisely where I will be off the lands. If my brass after being fired and bumped back .002” is shorter than the length of Hornady modified case, I would think I could just seat the bullet this much deeper and have precisely the jump I want, or if my fired case bumped back is longer, seat less deep.
Bad info here. Find your lands, and run those Hornady's off the lands about .020" off the lands. Don't go by the book max OAL, like you are saying!!! Very bad advice. You should always know where those lands are, when you are loading every bullet you are working with. With most "hunting" style bullets, start at .020" off the lands for reliability, then load for OCW. For those that don't know what OCW is, that is optimum charge weight. That is where "working up" a load comes into play. This video is horrible, even though it is just for "Tim".
It has absolutely nothing to do with what the bullet likes its what the barrel likes and that's reloading 101 hence why 2 exact same rifles will shoot the same exact load completely different. Stop giving out horribly wrong information dude.
