I remember being in legit awe and confusion when the 2nd dragon was 360 noscoped by a fleet caught dead to rights in the water. It felt like a fever dream for all of four or five seconds until I remembered that this is the show now.
@@jesses5463 I have...tell me, how does a large fleet, with large black sails, sneak up on an island fortress, that has 360 degree views of the water in all directions for miles, without anyone noticing? Think about it, critically, not like a retard.
Dany sacrificed, her army, her dragons and her life for these people and somehow Tyron, and Varys still decided to conspire behind her back. Also, one of the biggest questions I had was.. why couldn’t have John just waited to tell Sansa and Arya about his heritage? It made no sense to me. Why he had to tell them at the exact moment he found out.. if he truly never wanted to rule he at least could’ve waited until Dany got the throne. Also, they never talked about Dany and John getting married.. which you would think that would’ve been a serious discussion to be had between Dany and her advisors as well as Jon to strengthen their alliance. But alas, they never even asked her about it, or either of them how they felt about it..complete waste of time. There were A LOT of conversations that should’ve been had this season. 1. What was Bran warging into last episode 2. The revelation that Robert’s rebellion was built on a lie 3. Jon telling Dany about Maester Aemon 4. The Prince that was promised 5. Dany’s succession and future heirs..is she really barren? 6. and the biggest question of all… WHY ISN’T CERSEI SHOWING IF SHE’S BEEN PREGNANT SINCE LAST SEASON? 😂
Bran was warging into the crows to see where there Night King was. They do mention #2. Maester Aemon is dead. The Red Woman is dead to number 3 and 4 are irrelevant and don't matter to Dany. Yes, she's barren according to the witch. Some women don't show for many months. She's already thin and had enough clothes on, it could be hard to tell. Unless Qyburn is actually lying for her, and she is lying. We never know.
"When you play the game of thrones you win or you die". That is the essence of this war between these two queens. Cercei knows that Daney is going to burn her if she surrenders. Daney has been told her entire life that her family is the rightful rulers of the seven kingdoms. She now has no family and no home. She has nothing to lose. They both have every reason to fight to the finish. All is fair in war.
Dany does have a family in Jon. And if she would have given time for soldiers to recuperate & give the northerners time to get to know her. And vise/ versa. If her fam being the rightful heir was so important then it shouldn’t have been that hard to edify the rightful ruler, Jon. They could get rid of Cersei together
Rhaegal getting sniped 3 times in a row mid air is one of the dumbest things ever. Moments later, the entire fleet fires at Drogon and can't hit him once. Kay, sure.
Like was one dragon dying not enough? I feel like Raegal dying was just for shock value. Like sure, the fleet of ships COULD catch them off guard but like... brother euuuuh lmao
So you would want them both taken down at once? That would be The dumbest decision ever. First of all, they weren't ready at first, second of all, people have missed through history in real battles a bunch of times, so yes, sure.
If John had never gone north of the wall to gather a white to bring to cerci Danny would not have had to go save them and she would have never lost the first dragon and the knight king would have never had the dragon to bring the wall down. They should have annihilated kings landing right away and then dealt with the knight king second at the wall where it would have been more manageable because they come over at a slower pace
You are 100% right about the pace and the speed. And its honestly super annnoying because we got used to the book pacing. Book pacing is amazing because the characters have time to be fleshed out and motives can be explained, they can be reasonable and very believable. Once you lose the pace and things happen too fast, skipping dialogues, trying to save budget by off-screen kills etc etc, you are back to stupid storytelling that makes little sense, with endless plot holes and stuff missing, so nothing makes you special any more as a show. You no longer feel like a book or a believable world. You are more of the same. So yeah. Its sad but speed is what ultimately killed this series. And its really unfortunate cause we had something special here, and if the showrunners had a bit of patience to take their time on the last 2 seasons like they did earlier, it would still end on a fine note, at least a more believable one, despite the fact that they no longer had source material, aka books to adapt. It would still be fine. But they truly wanted to rush it and end it so they can go to other projects. They didn't want to do more episodes. So in that regard they did us dirty. It is what it is. No going back now. Even so this is still one of the most memorable tv series ever made, so at least that's something. And that's thanks to the earlier seasons and the book writing, thankfully. What a show.
The problems with the later season are too many to count. Not enough episodes, the dialogue is shallow and stupid, the characters don't behave like themselves, the writers main goal is to subvert expectations at the expense of everything else, it goes on and on.
John IS a Stark (Lyanna STARK was his mother) AND a Targaryen. Best of both worlds! Cersei is the enemy so why burn them ALL? What did the innocent people of King's Landing do? Just go to the Red Keep and burn it, sure, but not "BURN THEM ALL!" You guys shouldve watched the "After the episode" section after each episode because it shows snippets of the episodes with the writers' explanations with the decisions they made. It helps a lot with their thought process, as weird as it was.
Y'all seem to forget about Danny's feelings. Everything she did... She was led to it by the evil queen... Killing her best friend and her child was a final trigger... Y'all people want Danny to only follow what she's been told and forget about her own feelings... That's crazy
@@jesses5463 And John was innocent after killing men who refused to follow his orders? Was US innocent after killing Hundreds of innocent people using nuclear weapons to stop WW2?
I don't care what anyone says, I LOVE this show. Even with a couple of "bad" seasons it's still a damn good show. I think that if the last two seasons hadn't been shortened this epic show would be considered perfect. Seven episodes makes the difference.
I completely agree with Sophie's comment about the cuts in the dialogues. It would be great to see Sansa and Arya's reaction upon finding out that Jon was a Targaryen. Also, how Sansa told Tyrion this secret, and how Tyrion then told Varys. The way it was presented was terrible. Great reactions and comments. Congratulations!
Jaime was addicted to Cersei -- that's all. Addiction can be confused with love, but there's quite a difference. Also, he's not a flirt at all... remember -- until Brienne, he'd never been with, or been interested in being with, anyone but Cersei. In the books, he's gone much farther in extricating himself from Cersei's influence, and they're not even close to the time of the war between the Living and the Dead. irl, it's very possible, although often very difficult, to leave an abuser. Great effort, great reward. It's a complicated process, and GRRM obviously LOVES to tells complicated stories. Additionally, the farther the series moved beyond the source material, and particularly during the last two seasons, the GOT writers became especially careless in their treatment of large swaths of the story. For the first 2/3 of the show, the writers D&D had been pretty good at recreating -- on screen -- the thoughtful and intricate character and story development that GRRM had given us in his Story of Ice and Fire books. At their end, however, D&D tied up so many of the stories with a hatchet, butchering years of development in literal minutes, and with absolutely no resolution. This makes me think [though it might be wishful delusions] that GRRM's plans are much different for much of the remainder of the characters and stories. Some examples are: The ultimate pointlessness of the whole 'prince that was promised' prophecy. The little to no depth in situations like Jon and Arya's reunion; in Arya, Sansa, and even Jon's reaction to learning about R+L=J. Ghost. There are endless examples. As far as Jaime and Brienne's arc is concerned, do we really think GRRM will delete his version of Beauty and the Beast, just because the show did? I don't think so. The people writing the show were notorious for reducing the female characters' stories to the most reductive, stereotypical, cultural versions of women. For example, as sexual objects. Lots of boobs. For no real reason... just 'cause. In my memory, there were only two frontal shots of men, and there was a story telling purpose to showing them [ the purpose of having those men be naked, both times, was their humiliation -- but somehow it's different with women? ] Lot's of r@ping. again, just because. Sansa is never even with Ramsey in the books. Ygritte is really not very pretty in the books. She's actually described a little homely. And more like that. GRRM however, is exactly the opposite, and much of his writing, as regards women and girls, fearlessly and honestly explores and challenges our notions of the way things are, and why we think they're supposed to be like that. As far as Jaime's concerned: yes, it's possible he'll never leave Cersei, but can GRRM really resist telling the agonizing story of overcoming addiction and escaping abuse? Will he toss the Valonqar prophecy into the trash heap like they did in the show? In conclusion, I don't think this is the way Jaime and Brienne's story will go in the books. Finger's crossed?
Seems more like self-loathing than love of Cersei. I think Jaime is saying that if Cersei deserves to die, he does too. He also thinks she's pregnant with his baby. She deserves to die for Missandei alone. She deserved to die for Margaery and Loras, although the Sept explosion was at least a stylish episode, unlike this one. :)
I think they were trying to show what contributed to Danny’s descent into madness. She lost her husband, children, best friend, and now the throne after fighting so hard. She snapped. Anyone would. And she had the mad Targaryen genes.
Danys character is my example of how self proclaimed “Empaths” can actually come full circle back to “my way or the highway” if enough people tell them they’re right, kind and what everyone needs as a leader. Put all those thoughts into someone’s head for years and years….of course she gets to this point.
Yo, ya can't dog on Varys for being "for the realm." The realm is very real - its all the very real people of the city - and they are the ones who always always end up shouldering all the burdons and costs of war and of this little "throne game" that all these rich lords and ladies are playing at. There is nobody even close to power looking out for their interest EXCEPT Varys! Always making moves to hold it down for the people! For realm! He's the oigional for sure
100% But thats why the Realm ALWAYS suffers. Because people like Sophie and Mair prefer someone with a compelling story to their neighbors. Thats why I love GoT. It shows you the irrationality and idiot evil of our fellows.
You guys are on point with your observation that there seems to be such a lack of criticism about people like Cersei and Joffrey but way too much about Dany's actions! Her intentions were always good from the beginning. Stick by your guns and form your own opinions 🙂
Everybody hates Cersei, what are you talking about??? No one excuses her. The point is that Dany is a REAL tyrant and if that’s the case, what makes her BETTER than Cersei??? They both suck. Dany is ruthless, always has been, and she would NEVER die for her people. Just like Cersei.
I admire Daenerys for fighting against the white walkers, but when it comes to getting the throne, she's basically a female Stannis. What she did with the Tarleys, yes they were given a choice, but she still could have used them as hostages in order to keep the house and their men in line, but nope she does a Stannis move of you're either with me or you burn. And now she's kinda doing that with Jon, giving ultimatums.
It's funny cause everyone always wants to give her a pass for that part. It's like, we just spent the past 6 or 7 seasons learning why the Mad King was evil for wanting to burn people alive, learning that the Lord of Light's religion is evil for making Stannis burn people alive, but in Dany's case it's okay cause they were prisoners of war? That just makes it worse imo, it's like you said join me or die, but not even a merciful dignified death like it's the custom in most of Westeros, she wants to roast people for the intimidation factor. It's honestly Targaryen behavior.
@@Jessegredan Jon beheading Janos Slynt is a very different context. He was a subordinate who directly defied orders. If Jon didn't show an example, others might do the same, besides, there's really no benefit to keeping him alive. As for the Tarleys, they're a rich noble house, Daenerys could have kept them prisoners as they are more useful alive than dead. They were prisoners of war and they surrendered already. She could have literally kept them in a dungeon and use them, as I said, as hostages, to keep their house in line, but no, she's just like bend the knee now or burn, which was Stannis was doing and he got called out so much for it, but when Dany does it, she gets a free pass.
@@Jessegredan The Janos Slynt example is honestly so bad for you. Slynt (and all the mutineers) were straight up traitors who plotted and assassinated their Lord Commander. Jon executed them all because that's what's supposed to happen as consequences, by hanging or beheading it's all commonly accepted. Dany is making up her own rules as she goes and everyone either has to like them or literally be burnt alive.
@@Siegmeyer. making her own rules? when did she create the rule ''obey your king/queen or get executed'' exactly? i thought that was a culture presented long ago since season 1 and even before Aegon's conquest, lmao. the lit started with ned beheading a guy who was telling the truth
I always questioned why Cersei's sanity wasn't questioned. I was waiting for Dany to snap from Day One. You know the old saying: Every time a Targaryen is born, a coin is tossed. I've seen the cracks in Dany all along. I'll never say it's right to burn them all. I have always liked Dany, but I was never a Dany fanatic. I wish the season had been longer but it was ending and we were alerted it was going to be shorter. People are never satisfied with the end of popular shows. NEVER. I didn't have a problem with this episode or the season. I didn't care for some of the last things that happened in the last episode but it had to end some kind of way.
People are never satisfied with how popular shows end because the show runners would rather phone in a haphazard ending than pass the torch to someone who would give it the time and care it needs.
FYI, burning them all is eeeexactly what the mad king wanted to do, so you can't say she's not like him when you're cheering her on to do something that Mad king was hated for and he didn't even get to do that, he was hated just for planning to do that
Episode 4, Daenerys didn’t even burn anything, & her own “advisors” are already conspiring against her trying to put Jon on the throne, when he didn’t even want it. What Daenerys said to Jon was true, they can’t live together if everyone knows and because he told Sansa, he put Danys life in danger. People will take it and run with it. Literally all the conspiring in this episode by Tyrion and Varys proves this point. What about Aemon Targaryen who gave up his crown for his brother. That’s was fine. But when Jon doesn’t want it despite being first, Dany second then why are people trying fr?! BECAUSE SHES A WOMAN REALLY.
Mair. Nephew. I forgive the expletive slip. I applaud y'all's self-restraint for so many seasons like. It was like watching a marathon. It was inspiring LOL because I let so much potty wash fly!! LOL
The difference between Daenerys and the others is that she had Dragons...and that made her look "mad" lol if half of the main characters had dragons of their own then we would see the level of Madness...if Jon had a dragon instead of a wolf from the beggining i fear all the Wildlings would have been dead fro m when he first sought them out and none of you would even blink not to mention the other battles he Partook in
Not sure I understand Sophie's rationale. Does she really think that Dany should burn down all of KL because Cersei is evil? What about the fact that the people of KL hate Cersei? They didn't make her the Queen -- she took the crown herself (as most Monarchs do). Does Sophie want Dany to be queen or does she want her to be the new Tyrant of the Seven Kingdoms? I also don’t understand her philosophy of “Everything happens for a reason”. For this to be true, there needs to be a supernatural being who dictates all the happenings and events - both good and bad. And if that’s true, than everything horrible that happens is “god’s will”. So there are no good or bad deeds or people. And no one should be punished for the “evil” deeds they do.
@@jesses5463"might makes right" is often how people who believe in a supernatural gawd think. literally that whatever it takes to "win" over "evil" is perfect since "good & evil" are distinct binaries.
I am so grateful that y'all had the chance to watch this outside of all the chatter. When it was on, the internet was wilding out and missed the point. All the hate for this season was never warranted and everything that happens was already foreshadowed and made absolute sense as the result. Everyone sat through 8 seasons of a show like Game of Thrones and thought they were about to get a fairy tale ending. Really? I fully expected the nuclear option because it was what would happen in real life. 😑
Anyone who really thinks Danny is like her father binged the show once it was popular. Maybe now you’re starting to see why some of us warned you about the end of the show. Yes Sophie! How many epic conversations have we not seen in this show….. and then they don’t show that one?!?! How many times did I say “what was the point of that” is a theme haha
Exactly. These people who binged the show late didn't realize that Dany has been way worse than the Mad King going all the way back to season 1. Those of us who watched this from day 1 knew that she was a terrible person from the jump.
@@jesses5463 u really saying that girl presented in season 1 who was living under the abuse of her own brother and was sold as a s*x slave at the age of 16 was worse than a king who liked to burn people for amusement? y'all are weird af
the people who actually read the books and understood the depths of her character will certainly dislike the idea of the mad queen shit. it was not hinted, it was not foreshadowed. it doesn't make sense to her character and even the actress who plays Daenerys (she did read all the books) is agains't it. grrm already presented dany as a tragic character, with flaws, greyness and most importantly; as a heroine GRRM: in some sense, he [Aegon the conqueror] saw what was coming 300 years later, and wanted to unify the seven kingdoms to be better prepared for the threat that he eventually saw coming in the north. ''Daenerys Targaryen is no maid, however. she is the widow of a dothraki khal, a mother of dragons, a sacker of cities and aegon the conqueror with teats'' - ADWD, Tyrion VI ''...Daenerys is one of the main heroine of the novel, and dragons server only her'' - GRRM's Mir Fantastiki interview ''Well of course the two outlying ones, the things that are going on north of the Wall and Daenerys Targaryen on the other continent with her dragons are of course the 'Ice and Fire' of the title ''a song of ice and fire" - GRRM “I mean… Fire is love, fire is passion, fire is sexual ardor and all of these things. Ice is betrayal, ice is revenge, ice is… you know, that kind of cold inhumanity and all that stuff is being played out in the books" - GRRM Viserys I: ambition alone is not what drove him [Aegon] to conquest. it was a dream. and just as daenys foresaw the end of valyria, aegon foresaw the end of world of men. aegon saw absolute darkness riding on those winds [...]'' ''She is Azor Ahai returned and her triumph over darkness will bring a summer that never end ... death itself will bend its knee, and all those who die fighting in her cause shall be reborn'' - ADWD, Tyrion VI ''That night she dreamt that she was Rhaegar, riding to the Trident. but she was mounted on a dragon, not a horse. When she saw the Usuper’s rebel host across the river they were armored all in ice, but she bathed them in dragonfire and they melted away like dew, and turned the Trident into a torrent. Some small part of her knew that she was dreaming, but another part exulted. This is how it was meant to be.'' - ASOS, Daenerys III ''when the red star bleeds and the darkness gathers, *azor ahai shall be born again amidst salt and smoke to wake dragons out of stone*'' - ASOS, Davos III ''*no one ever looked for a girl*'' [...] it was a prince that was promised, not princess. the language misled us all for a thousand years. daenerys is the one, born amidst salt and smoke. the dragons prove it'' - AFFC, Sam IV ''five central characters will make it through all volumes [...] the five key players ae tyrion, daenerys, jon, arya and bran.'' - GRRM ''not all the characters who died on ''game of thrones'' will die in ''a song of ice and fire'' - GRRM ''jon killing dany was an original idea of benioff and weiss in the third season'' - Lossietereinos belomor555: dany, my most hated character... i hope she dies in the end. grrm on his blog: tsk tsk ''I never held much with slavery […]. You can’t just go… usin’ another kind of people, like they wasn’t people at all. Know what I mean? Got to end, sooner or later. Better if it ends peaceful, but it’s got to end even if it has to be with fire and blood, you see?'' - GRRM
For them to say no one comments about hatred for Cersei, Joffrey or Ramsey - even the mad king & Robert / Stannis Baratheon means they only read the top few comments
Varys is trustworthy to the ruler who puts the realm 1st. If you didn’t see / hear him maneuvering folks around to try and do what was best for the realm then you need to watch it again. During every evil ruler’s rein. He’s not tying to keep Cersei on the throne. He’s trying to replace two problematic queens with Jon.
Ned and Jon did things they didn’t WANT to do, but you guys are equating Dany to these men. She was never a reluctant judge. How did you miss that? In fact, she has ALWAYS wanted to rule by fear and brutality. Barriston and Jorah tempered that in her. Tyrion tempered that in her. She has required tempering from the beginning. When Drogo was laying out the game plan to head to Westeros, he said how he was going to brutalize people! And Dany was cool with it. Everyone here faces mistakes that everyone makes. No one likes joeffery. No one!!! No one here excuses Cersei. No one! But everyone here is looking for SOMEONE DIFFERENT!!!! Ned and Jon are different. They are GOOD, JUST men, who put lives above their own. Dany has NEVER put lives above her own! How many times did she take off on her dragon to keep herself safe while her advisors and soldiers were killed. You think Ned or Jon would have flown away? Hell no they wouldn’t have! They would have died for theirs!!! You two are way off. The whole point of killing Cersei IS TO SAVE THE REALM! Otherwise, there’s no point in dethroning her. Remove her to save the people. If you kill all the friggin people to kill Cersei, THEN YOURE JUST ANOTHER RULER LIKE CERSEI, AN UNJUST TYRANT. Wow. You guys are just really off base.
Olena didn't tell Dany to be a dragon because she wanted Dany on the throne. Olena wanted Cersei dead. Period. That's all. Dany was Olena's best chance to get revenge now that her grandchildren were gone. She didn't give a shit about whether or not Dany was a good person or a good ruler or that she had a claim to the throne. She had every intention to try to manipulate Dany afterward - the way she wanted to manipulate the rulers before her. Absolute power corrupts absolutely.
I agree with you, Missandei last word matters. And Lady Olenna said to Daenerys, " you're a dragon, Be a dragon'. The end of this show is like this, in my opinion so far , i'm totally agree with you
The battle of winterfell could have been at LEAST half a season. The travel to King's Landing and the invasion could have been at LEAST half a season long. And the aftermath of the siege on King's Landing could have been at LEAST half another season. MORE of the "after" the wheel. Arya's storyline, John's Storyline, the unsullied storyline... SO MANY unexplored conversations and storylines. And then the rush of the season didn't even work out for Dan and Dan because they got fired from the job they wrapped GoT up for... BOZO behaviour.
"Y'all didn't say anything about Cersei" - BECAUSE IT'S ALREADY OBVIOUS. Why should we rehash how bad Cersei is????? And we have every reason to talk about the other characters because we wanted them to succeed. We wanted them to make better choices. We wanted them to SEE and to win. The lesson of GOT isn't that good people don't get good rewards or that bad people win. The lesson is that absolute power corrupts EVERYONE. You can't just be a hammer freely wielded because you made an easy moral choice (slavery is bad). The madness of the Targaryens, the madness of Dany, what Jorah said about her father is this: The more they win, the more they think they're right ABOUT EVERYTHING. Combine that with a strong will and absolute power? It doesn't matter how "good" you were in the past. You will trample everything and everyone *and every convention* to protect your prize - just like dragons in mythology. I ADORE DANY. But hindsight is 20/20. She was always on this path. And Varys wasn't trying to get Joffery out?!?! He was trying that whole time to get Dany to Westeros...
Why are you trying to speak for everyone? Chill. Also, just on the point of the madness of the Targaryens. This is directed at the show. Not you. I hate how the show made such a massive deal out of Targaryen madness when out of over 100 Targaryens a handful were arguably truly mad. One merely danced naked in the Red Keep and was labelled mad. Even Aerys was driven into insanity by the loss of children and the Defiance of Duskendale. There were brutal Starks and Lannisters too.
BINGO!!! There is a reason Daario Neharis told her that she wasn't a queen - that she was actually a conqueror. There was a reason that Cersei told the Iron Bank that Dany wasn't a monarch - that she was actually a revolutionary. Dany won easy to decipher moral victories in Essos because its soooo black & white: "Slavery is bad. It is good to end slavery." But she only knew how to ACQUIRE. Dany never learned to cultivate or plant. That's why Mereen was such a disaster & why she had to conquer it twice. We love her power because we love to see easy morality win! Ending slavery by destroying slavers is FANTASTIC. Its blinded us to the fact that Dany is a only a hammer, not a foundation. Then she went to Westeros where there wasn't any easy moral victory, where other heroes existed, where politics/relationships were the way to win - a skill she never learned. And it took me a very long time to realize that Lady Olena didn't tell her to "Be a Dragon" because she wanted to see Dany on the throne. She told her to be a dragon because she wanted Cersei dead and Dany was the best hammer to do it - Lady Olena had EVERY INTENTION to remain in Dany's ear if she won. I adore Dany. I think she's an amazing character and her personal growth is fascinating. And D&D can eat a bag o'dicks for how they mangled her trajectory. She was always going in that direction. Always. But it needed more room to breathe.
Such a trash episode. Making one of two POC characters die back in chains. Disgusting. Not even joking when I say the writers said "Dany kind of forgot about the Iron fleet." How ridiculous. She's at war and you're telling me she forgot the fleet that already dealt her a major defeat and all her advisors forgot this too. Famously, only one dragon died from an arrow and that was by massive luck. The Dornish shot an arrow and it hit Meraxes, the Dragon of Queen Rhaenys (Aegon the Conqueror's second sister-wife) killing them both. Now you're telling me three bolts hit the dragons. Please. Arya's line "she isn't one of us" is like when Cersei said to Joffrey "anyone who isn't us is an enemy." Then her moronic comment "that's all right. I don't need many allies." It was those allies who defeated the White Walkers. Without Dany and her armies, the Northerners would be dead. They were running away whilst the Unsullied defended them. The Starks are so unlikeable now. I love how you guys are team Dany and point out the hypocrisy of some people about Cersei. Tyrion annoys me so much. Such a weak person not meant for war. Dany attacking the Red Keep would have been the smartest decision but stupid Tyrion came along (convenient that his brother and sister were inside the Red Keep).
Mair and Sophie basically want the final season to be ALL the " bad " guys " losing ", and all the " good " guys getting their cake with the cherry on top and eating it too. Wouldnt that be an amazing story and great TV?
Skipping time 4 times in an episode, and having Jon’s main lines be “you are my Queen” or Tyrion constantly make mistakes I mean the list goes on for the dumb things this season was. GREAT ENDING FR ur literally so basic lmao
@@Nattiie First of all youre out to lunch and missed my point completely. Second of all, Season 7 is hands down the worst season of television ie ever seen. If YOU expected something profound after witnessing the cartoonish 6th season and embarassing 7th, that speaks on your own intellience. Check yourself...
@@iskywalking420 season 6 was decent the rest I agree. I actually missed ur point. But despite the shit seasons I still wanted something decent and I’m still mad & can’t believe this is what happened.
I love cercei.. because the fans look at it from the protagonist perspective. And also Joffrey. But think about, she was joffreys mother. She has to defend her son. And after that, if people would just leave her alone, she is very greatful for it. From the start people have been all up her business. She didnt send the assasin to kill bran that was little finger. Most of the stuff she does is because people dont let her Be.
Agreed. Everything Cersei did I can say she did to save her kids and her family. Little Finger and Lysa Arryn killed Jon Arryn and set up the Lannisters and started everything. Jon is my favorite character but I always had a soft spot for Cersei and after getting the back story of Robert and Cersei’s relationship I believed she did her best to perform her duty. Reminds me somewhat of someone in HOTD.
@@clayton3053 Fans hate cercei because they were set up to hate her based off little finger's framing, and joffrey's shit. The only real bad thing cercei did was Killing Sansa's wolf. Wich made us hate her whe you combine it with the story progression. But if you look at the story after they arrive in kings landing... cercei just wants to he left alone... Ned starts fucking with her.
@@clayton3053 also. The person it reminds you of... how can people hate cercei, and not hate that person you say? Ok, so let that person be... but lets be all up on cerceis business?
@@kittykatt7652 Yea any Kingdom even without dragons would have had scouts and warning towers around, sneeking in this massive fleet by Euron would be impossible
27:00 Daenerys' kindoms were in open rebellion until Tyrion came along. Daenerys her dragons when she went against Tyrion's advice, granted she saved the undead presentation effort. :) Also, Ed Stark was murdered by Joffrey, Cersei, and supporters in an effort to retain their power and not because he was "doing good". :)
Sure. Thousands of innocent people should have died because Dany is obsessed with being the Queen. Where is her compassion in killing all of those innocents? If you disagree with her then you should be burned alive? Really? That’s the only option? Really? Her obsession is her downfall. “I’m meant to be Queen no matter what! No matter who has to die!” Sophie’s argument is ignorant, selfish, and cruel. Saying Dany should just burn them all. You’re ridiculous argument is based on feelings alone, Sophie, just like Dany’s. She’s wiling to be Queen at all costs. Madness. How absurd.
She didnt have to burn Sams brother and father. She literally just had to keep them as prisoners until the war was over and then send them to the wall after becoming the queen officially if they still didnt kneel. Dany has basically said its her way or the highway everywhere shes gone in the name of a throne that has never been hers in the first place... Shes a conqueror, she isnt a ruler. Remember Mereen towards the end of season 6, there was a lady with her baby in the street who thought Tyrion was trying to eat her baby.. thats not a ruler who cares about the people. Everyone knows Cersei is insane, shes been nuts throughout the entire show and has always been the villian. Dany paints herself as a saviour yet she murderers everywhere she goes and justifys it by saying its her 'destiny'. As for Varys, hes always been trying to better the realm, hes the one who tried talking Ned into confession to stop the north rising up, he also helped Olenna plot to murder Joffrey. Up to the end of season 5 was when they caught up with the books, so you notice the drop. Unfortunately, the directors were offered a star wars project so wanted to speed up them finishing GoT.. the studio even said theyd give them all thr funding they wanted for 10 seasons but they just didn't want to. This could've worked if they spent more time on every relationship.
Why does Sophie keep saying that Jon is not a Stark? He IS still a Stark bc his mother was Lyanna Stark!..He's just not the Stark we thought him to be bc he's also Targaryen. Also, it wasn't uncommon for Starks to marry their relatives either.
Is conquering and colonising by dragon fire the right thing to do? Her motivations aren’t to free the people of kings landing she just thinks it’s her birth right
I just don’t understand how you are fine with her being a mad queen. You don’t just burn cities to “get things done”. If someone does that do you really think they are the right person to rule?
the last 3 episodes always reveal what kind of person a reactor truly is. i think the writing/plotting was awful this season - but its a great litmus test for the character of the person(s) watching.
@@czest-d7f I can still acknowledge some poor writing while also realising that they didn’t just make this storyline up out of nowhere. I also just don’t understand why these reactors are literally saying to burn the city, just because they want to get things done? Or because they want chaos and mass death?
Why could Aegon the conqueror burn people with dragon fire melting brick walls with people boiling inside just because he felt like taking Westeros. Where as Dany has actual reasons to get the throne and reason to be pissed off. THE DOUBLE STANDARDS & the typical “original” mad queen storyline. I CANT
@Nattiie - Aegon targeted only the stronghold of his enemy. And he didn't just feel like taking it. He had reasons too. I'm a Dany fan and if she burnt the Red Keep that would have been great. It's the awful writing for what she did to the smelly city that annoys me.
@@icechoc He killed innocent too, more so than Dany actually when you combine his. But what I’m saying is he was seen as a “Good King”. He was liked. In the books Dany is compared to Aegon the conqueror a lot. So who knows if they left her alive she wouldn’t be as bad as they thought.
Daenerys is a CONQUEROR. Not a Queen. She’s like Aegon the Conqueror, and has a better reason for ruining over Westeros like her history, family, all the pain. Compared to Aegon who just basically did it cus he felt like it. No one batted an eye when he burned people with his MASSIVE, dragons (x30 if not more size of the “small” Drogon) boiling people in their homes.
He literally didn't do it "because he felt like it" though. He did it because he has a vision. Targaryens have visions. He saw the end of humanity and wanted to unite everyone to stand against it. He pursued the necessary unity at any cost. Just as Danaery's may "end tyranny" at any cost. It's more nuanced than "Aegon bad" which is the point GRRM makes about everyone is that the stories people hear aren't always the full reality. A conqueror of someone of sorts, perhaps Aegon, may once again unite the seven kingdoms, but without fire and blood. And then they may succeed in salvaging humanity. ASOIAF per GRRM is allegory for climate change, human extinction, and what it takes to overcome it. It's not simply about stories like D&D decided to say on their own accord.
I’m gonna defend Daenerys because nobody said anything when Aegon the conqueror conquered the seven kingdoms with THREE dragons, burned people in their castles as bricks melted - literally idc the double standards people have, and the typical story line of a crazy woman everyone buys pisses me off. Burn u all lmao
Are you serious? How was anyone gonna say anything about Aegon? That's a finished story from before any of the events in the books or show. If you wanna make a comparison say something about Cersei blowing up the sept with everyone in it, or Rhaenys flying into the coronation and killing hundreds of peasants like its nothing. There were plenty of complains about that.
You keep talking about Aegon like that matters. It’s not relevant on any level. Aegon is a dictator tyrant like all the others. And??? But he probably wasn’t MAD like a lot of crazy Targaryens. Dany went mad. She didn’t have to burn the city. She burned children when it wasn’t necessary. Aegon probably came in hot to make a statement so that Westeros would bend the knee. Dany needed no such statement. She made it without bloodshed. The people were ready to bend the knee and the Lannister army would have delivered Cersei up to Dany.... there was no need for what Dany did. It made her WORSE than Cersei!
"She not a bad person" That ending discussion was genuinely one of the weirdest things ive ever heard. "Shes not a bad person so its fine if she does bad things"????? You are justifying the slaughter of 1 MILLION innocents. That makes her worse than cersei. How are you so blinded?
I say this with love. Please please, it's ok not to react to everything that's said. At least keep the reaction a little shorter. I understand the whole editing thing
1-Ned threatened Cercei. 2-Little finger framed the lannisters. 3-Joffrey put the lanisters against a corner with the 5 kings war. 4-Someone kills her son. 5-The parasite family that killed her son now has their claws on the other more innocent son. 6-Tyrion kills her father, wich its the only thing that stands between them and the rest of westeros. 7-Her son betrays her for the parasite family and the religious cult. 8-She is now queen, and remembers king roberts advice about the coming dothraki-targeryan invasion (important to point out, the baratheons just won their rebelion from the targeryans). 9-CERCEI NOW HAS TO HOLD THE CROWN FOR THE REBELLIONS SIDE AGAINS A CRAZY HISTORICALLY HEARTLESS FAMILY (TARGERYANS). #CERCEIDIDNOTHINGWRONG
@@lpreactions565 cercei fans comes from hindsight. As you see every episode you are made to hate her. But hindsight makes you realize, she is an OG lady of westeros. Lannister peasents are the best peasants in westeros.
@@prico3358Pretty sure you can dislike and understand someone and their actions at the same time. Understanding doesn't mean there has to be rooting and fandom.
Varys cared about the people. He’s the real hero. While the Game of Thrones is about a throne, the common people suffer. Varys is the only one who did what he could for THEM.
I agree with you. I was mad when it had just come out, and I was pissed like everybody else. But as the years passed, and I kept going back to it, I increasingly made peace with the development of Dany. And today I think it's the only way it could end. Even though it's not entirely Dany's fault, it does also contains a strong message about what power does with people - which also reminds me of LOTR.
I completely agree! Missandei was telling Dany what she should do and Lady Olenna quite clearly told Dany “to be a dragon.” Dany is left with little choices in that moment. I enjoyed y’alls reactions and commentary as always. 2 episodes left.
When your defense for Danny burning innocents is “look at how Cersei is acting” your defense isn’t great. Slaughter innocent people because she cares about the people? 🤔🤔
When Aegon the Conqueror conquered the seven kingdoms with THREE dragons. (Dany had one in the end) Burning Kings in their castles as the brick walls melted he was great wasn’t he? The double standards for women. Love to see everyone buy the “very original” crazy woman storyline fr
@@Nattiie exactly. Aegon the conqueror was known to be a good king, not a mad one. and he burnt more people than Dany did. Dany is literally called "Aegon the conqueror with teats" in the books, but the writers kinda forgot about that
@@Nihilanth yes I know! Actually in the show too Dario Naharis told her she’s not a Queen, she’s a conqueror. I don’t think Dany would be a bad Queen too just because she burned them. She was in pain and she wouldn’t do it if not everything that happened. She could also still be good.
