Busting a Common Bike MYTH 

When you come to a stoplight, you're supposed to do a trackstand and sneak peeks at all the squares waiting at the stoplight (on their feet, losers) to see how they impressed they are at your near walking on water feat.

I wish so many people would understand what you are saying. I have one road bike that’s a 54 that I can stand over perfectly and the “cockpit” is perfect. On the next bike I bought I went with a 58 because in smaller sizes of that bike was too cramped. I can stand over it but it does touch my man parts. I’ve had so many people see me stopped on it and say “Your riding too big of a bike!” If they would only understand how comfortable it is when riding.

Remember proportions--different bike brands have different top tube vs seat tube lengths. Some are designed for Spiderperson, others for human bassett hounds.

Standover is extremely important for my 4'10" wife and has way fewer options when you get into the higher end bikes. Fortunately more companies are starting to understand there is a market for people under 5' tall that don't want a beginner bike.

I just swapped my 72yr old dad from his beloved Cross Check to a Bridge Club for some extra swing room, sloped top tubes helped him out a lot.

Thanks for sharing this. I just sized up a couple months ago for the first time ever with my new Salsa Cutthroat, but started doubting my decision. Really nice to hear your opinion. Very reassuring. Keep these great videos coming. Mike

I don't know if I fully agree with this. I was riding on a road almost two years ago on a bike where I just about cleared the top tube. I lost my balance and during the fall bounced off the top tube instead of being able to readily plant my feet on the ground to regain control. I wouldn't recommend giving up standover and reduce safety.

Honestly I just want a step through so bad

Thanks for the insight - VERY helpful! My wife has a very similar leg-torso ratio to you, Russ, and this is a very timely discussion as I’ve been perseverating over this precise topic while considering getting her a new bike (also the Sklar you featured in this video and a previous one!).

This is a great video. I usually end up picking the larger frame, giving up a bit of standover height and seat post reveal. Smaller frame usually has me feeling cramped. I too like my bars even with my saddle or a tad higher. I recently purchased a Kona Sutra and was able to try a 52 and a 54. The standover was great on the 52, but even with slamming the saddle all the way back, and increasing the stem length, I couldn’t shake that cramped feeling. If I felt cramped on a test ride, it would have felt worse after many hours and miles on the bike.

Nice nice 👌🏻 this is good advice! I’ve been thinking about replacing my lockdown, cobbled together “gravel” hybrid bike. It has always felt a smidge too long, so this could be part of my problem

thanks Russ, I too am shortish, with back problems so I ride small frames and use a stem extender and swept back bars, works for me

Absolutely true, my Giant Anthem it so much taller than all of my other bikes but once I am on, it is perfect for riding.

That Sklar is a beauty.

I like how you discuss this topic from different sides without offering just one „correct solution“. As you mentioned, body proportions play a big role, but also mobility. I have a rather long inseam but a hard time stretching out into an long reach so I prefer my bikes on the shorter side with quite a bit of stem an saddle post showing (what you called “cramped”)

Super excited to see more content featuring the Super Something! The geo numbers for that bike look awesome. Might have to save my pennies for one of those...

Great video about an often misused or mistaken factor. Kudos!

THANK YOU, I chose one size up cause I like how I look while riding the thing, I’m 5’8 but only riding 56, and it’s great, cause I’m also kinda scared of pedal strike, cause I think pedaling whilst turning also looks awesome

Good video. I ride a frame much larger than my 28-inch inseam should be on, but I can stretch out while riding still seated. I climb well even seated, love it. A bike my proper size just feels so cramped. It is a road bike so hardly ever standing. Thanks, and be well. Subscribed!

Great explanation. I'd like a little more standover on my Rove but then it'd be far too short. Standover isn't really a big deal for the riding I do. Glad I got the size I did.

You generally do great job with your informative videos. If these your personal bikes very interesting builds. No STI? Mech Disc up front and calipers at rear. Lots 1x. Nice gravel bars. All my current builds bar at least level if not higher than saddle. No suspension seatpost yet.

I always enjoy your videos and channel. And I have some party pace stickers on my bikes and gear.

Great advice. I have a bike with little standover that fits perfectly riding. I got a mini velo recently that’s super easy to get going on (I have five bikes!). What is the bike you are demonstrating with? Looks cool.

Good tip. Thanks.

Too true. I care more about getting the reach right than standover. And I'm a big fan of sizing up a bit. I'm not as flexible as I was, but I find that leaning the bike makes getting a leg over easier. Cheers

It was a bit easier in the days of quill stems when a Nitto would give you all the extension you needed. Not everything new is better. Now to change stack height you need to invest in a new fork and a large number of spacers.

Great advice that is so often ignored or poo pooed. The only things is that shorter stems can make the handling twitchy on fast descents

I love being over-biked. I am 5 9 and a 34 inseam. All legs and arms. The 'correct' size of bike for me generally has me leaned over very far even with the stem all the way up, because my saddle sits so high. Large bikes fit well, even one XL bike I have is a pleasure compared to any Mediums

I'm riding a size 50 gravel bike right now I'm 5'7 it's a little big stand over wise but when I'm riding it felt good because the reach is just right.

Stand over is only useful to see if the bike is too big. All riders are gonna be better off using frames too small or frames at correct size...both are gonna be good

Totally, only I like to have room for bags in the back as well. So I look for frames that accommodate that. Alas some seat post room.

Glad to see you make this video. I have the same problem but even more so. I'm 6' with a 29 inch inseam. Slight case of dwarfism I guess. Lol. When I find a bike that has crotch clearance it's way to small while riding so I got bigger and deal with it. I guess when I can't anymore I'll have to admit I'm old and get a step through. Lol

Shorter inseam guy here. Personally I’ll never go above my inseam again. Had to bail once (no brakes) where my feet where fist to save me from practically going head first into a wall. Had a bruised groin for about a year and half. Never again lol.

i have a Salsa Fargo in XL which i love riding, L size would have been better for Stand over height but the xl frame just feels better while riding

I have a step thru frame. I bought the largest size I could, now my seat and handlebars are perfect for me at their lowest settings. Very solid.

Good advice Russ. 🍻

Have similar measurements - same problem - need a larger size frame. Rode a 21 inch frame Schwinn Super LeTour 12.2 back in the 70s. That frame fit me.

Even if the reach increases more, there are so many excellent options for shorter stems (like the Discord "0" and "30mm" samples) these days. I ride a Riv A. Homer Hilsen from 2011 that is technically "too tall" for me with short stems. It is perfect.

Cool stuff thanks.

I agree with the recommendation to not use stand over as a basis for bike fit. I'm 5'11" with shortish legs, but I have a long torso and long arms. I get large size frames. This allows me to bring the seat down a bit so the bar and seat height are very close to level. This saves my bad neck and shoulder from a whole lot of pain. I also don't feel all cramped up.

The standover height is a Minimal requirement! Sometimes you need to stand over your bike, like in traffic or after an emergency stop, and you shouldnt be punished for this with a punch to the balls because the designer was bad at their job

I personally fit better on extra large sized frames (19-21"/58-60cm). However my standover height is not ideal. On most of my bikes my top tube is either touching my crouch or I have less than 1" clearance. When I try smaller, large sized frames (17-19"/56cm) I have better standover height clearance but I need to raise my seat post up to the max to get good leg extension, I feel cramped, and I would have to put a bunch of spacers and/or get a longer stem to make it work Many people are in-between sizes and will fit differently on other style/brand frames. When purchasing bikes, people should find the 2 sizes they they could fit on and try them both out if possible. If buying a frame only or buying online, I guess look at the geometry and compare it to your current, previous, or most comparable bike available. Regardless, tough decisions need to be made. It's never easy.

Wow such beautiful looking bikes !

Good one, Rus!

I size based on reach & I go for longer reach so I can drop stem length and avoid the horrible handling of a long road bike tiller stem. I've seen a lot of gravel bike reviews by road riders who buy gravel frames based off their road bikes FRAME geo then complain the stem is too short (while looking for my next road bike that will be a carbon gravel bike on 28mm/32mm slicks). Good vid btw

I have the opposite problem. I am 5'10" with a 34" inseam so I have long legs and a short torso so I need to size down and I still have to routinely use a shorter stem.

I’m intrigued to see what crank length you decide on after experimenting with the Appleman adjustable crankset. I hope you make a video on this soon 👌

I completely agree, size those bikes up. I think Ive got your same measurments Russ and one of the best bike fit choices I ever made was sizing up to 55 cm on the horizontal top tube Crust Romanceur from a slightly sloping top tube 52 cm Kona Sutra. Let that top tube caress the gooch. Hot take larger frames just look better too.

I'm on board with this. I like roomier riding positions even if I have to be careful stopping.

I have come to terms that "slightly touching" is now considered normal standover clearance. And then theres the wheel size issue that means i'm unable to use frames that have level top tube, unless it uses 26"x1.9" or less. Bigger wheel size + level top tube means the top tube is already higher than my inseam. Negative clearance.

Good tips. But I'm curious about your front rack. Nice and simple. What is it? Thanks!

I've never actually understood why standover is important at all. On my daily commuter I've opted for a frame I can't stand over, because it gives me a slightly more upright position on the bike. On the other hand, on my "Sportier" bikes I have some standover, and really long stems, to get into a lower position. Also I've destroyed the standover on most of my bike by mounting big top tube bags and other stuff on the top tube.

So, what you're telling us, Russ, is that the bike companies have built in a nut punch to their frames. Given everything else they've done to decrease fit, fewer sizes and poor frame design, that tracks.

I finally catch a premiere.

I did this with my Soma Wolverine. I completely missed that the stand-over was based on 700C, but mine is equipped with 650b. Quite cramped. I should have gone for at least one size bigger.

The Sklar is looking really good, Russ. What handlebars are those - how do you like them?

I mainly look at the top tube length. Somewhere around 52 to 54cm length. Not the height number. Normally shops aim me at 56cm but the length usually seems too long even with a short 50mm stem. I'm just not a aero seater either (I find it too painful). In bmx I'm supposed to like 21.5 top tube as people say and yeah standing it is ok but sitting with a high seat it's just too far and stretched. Also the longer front end feels too light sitting down as all my weight is on the back wheel not on both like I feel with 20.5... I tested many frames for what I'm doing with my 20" wheeled bikes. 20.5 seats me just right. If the seat angle is slacker then it's too long. Straighter angle then the bike jack hammers. Short chainstays. Same feels too much road shock. Kop? Well I find it kind of true too. Knee over pedal seating. There's lots of bike fit practice. It's all about how the rider feels. And not all riders feel the same on each bike.

I have the opposite problem: very long legs and a short torso for my height. If I size for standover, I end up needing a 60mm or shorter stem. Even worse is on my Crust Romanceur with TRP Hylex brakes and their crazy-long hoods: even a 35mm stem is too long! I pretty much always have to go custom to get a good fit without tons of seatpost showing, as well as at best tons of spacers/quill showing or a super short stem.

At 5 foot 3, I find the recommended SMALL frames very uncomfortable. Depending on brand, I find medium, and for my Giant hybrid, a large comfortable. I don't know if my legs are disproportionate, but I feel squished on smaller frames.

Stack and Reach are far more important measurements than Standover when choosing a bike. I'm a short rider and if I go by standover alone, I would be riding 47-49 size frames because I have relatively short legs. This is fine for my road bike as sizing down feels better to get a more aggressive fit, but on all my other bikes it doesn't seem as useful. In reality, I have fit anywhere from a 47-52 and been able to ride them all comfortably. One of my gravel bikes is a 52 and touches on the standover, but the ride geometry fits perfectly well. And it is rare on a bike that you will be standing over it with two feet flat on the ground, maybe when you're in the parking lot chatting with your buddies will that happen, and then you'd probably want to rest on the top tube anyway. Even at a light you usually only take one foot off the pedals and that allows you to open up your hip, lean the bike, and place a foot firmly down should the frame be a tad larger. This only tends to be a short people problem but it makes sense when you're between frame sizes, no matter your height.

Sage advice. Me, I take the bike up a 8% out of the saddle. If my knees crash the handlebars something needs to be adjustment or it's just a no go.

Wicked good video Russ. I think more bike myth-busting content would be most helpful to your followers.

I made this mistake with my last bike. Like you I have a 29” inseam but I’m a hair under 6’7 I bought an xs frame and I never managed to make the bike feel right.

When are you going to review the Ritchey corralitos?

I’ve had that same problem myself. Im a tween 6,2 ish. Sometimes the next size up and sacrificing sand over isn’t all that bad.

I can relate to this, the top tube on my bike touches my nuts but I still would not want a smaller frame. Its a 53cm (seat tube) track bike and It is just right for my arm length and seat post length. I am about the same height as you.

I agree, i feel top tube length makes such a bigger difference in terms of fit.

What is that front rack? I've got a Swood T-rack but looking for something that supports my Carradice style bag.

When is the review of the Super Something coming?

Stand over was a reliable-ish starting point for size back when every bike had a horizontal top tube. It’s functionally useless in a post-compact-frame-geometry world. It literally means “you can stand over the bike.” It tells you nothing else any more.

Have you done a video on this bike? Interested in the setup.

Excellent I am even more extreme 5'10" with a 29" inner. I have various bikes Triban 3, GT grade carbon, Ridgeback world panorama. The biggest challenge is the touring bike when loaded at 30KG. With that weight it needs to be kept dead upright. Otherwise it spins instantly around the rear wheel to the ground. Fortunately there's just enough slope in the top tube to cock a leg over. I am a fit 68 year old with a giant upper body and tiny legs 😊!!

Thank you. Can’t believe my local shop is still fitting bikes this way. Bejesis.

When I come to a stoplight, that's when I take my feet off the handlebars.

i never heard of standover or considered it for sizing..? is this a normally used metric? i choose with stack reach an more generally with a geo sheet. Definately a more precise method.

Interesting that you’ve noticed stack increasing more than reach when sizing up. When I compare dozens of MTB frames I actually notice the opposite where the stack:reach ratio trends lower (I.e. closer to 1:1) as you get towards XL where small frames typically have a higher stack:reach ratios and look to be much friendlier towards your back.

I remembered that you had a salsa cutthroat but I’ve never seen you ride a Fargo, I feel like it’s everything you look for in a bike; geometry wise (and external housing!) would you ever do a review on one of those?

My bikes certainly doesn't have tolerance on standing position. However I made a habbit to stand on the pedal then angle the bike to get off safety

I use the ‘stand-over’ method up front to make sure that it doesn’t crush my crotch. Then, I make adjustments from there. I refuse to spend a king’s ransom for fitting sessions.

Are those blunnies that you are wearing?

the two people walking along the road in the background look as if they walked into the Fifth Dimension. Poof! Vanished! Fun. thanks for the pointers on the right "fit".

Those rigs are sweeeeeet 🗽🚴

There’s a great Andy Hampsten piece online about bike sizing.

I am on exactly the opposite side, with long legs, and short torso. Often I am between two sizes, I had two bike fittings and both were saying that I should have 56 cm road bike (trek domane with relatively short reach 377 mm) and you know what, I cant't ride this bike. Also I have my custom gravel bike built on a genesis vagabond frame set, size L. Way to big (manufacurer guidens were saying differently) I aksed the fitter will it help if I downsize the frame and he said not really. After a yaer of trying to adjust trek to my needs I decided to take risk and buy a smaller frame for my gravel bike. I can't stop riding it now.

My bike is a 62cm. Straddling the top tube it’s right up in my crotch and getting on the bike I either have to do the ole one foot on a pedal kick off maneuver, or I have to lean it over to clear the saddle. Old school thinking probably says I should’ve sized down but when I’m in the saddle that bike fits me like a glove.

One very simple method to get the reach right: hold your elbow against the tip of the saddle and reach out towards the handle bar. There should be between 3 and 6 cm of space between the tip of your middle finger and the middle of the handlebar. The length of your arms somewhat correlates to your inseam length and thus this gives you a good starting point for bike fitting. If it doesn't fall into this range, the frame and setup probably isn't the right size for you. Standover doesn't mean anything due to the availability of bikes with sloping top tube.

Is this a ritchey classic venture max?

I rode a frame with no stand over clearance for years, its a cheap steel fixed frame but I cannot get rid of it. I hate to admit it but it is one of the most comfortable riding frames Ive ever had.

Hi , what's the. Mudguard ?

What bars are you using on the pink bike?

What’s the front rack on the first bike?

I remember back in the 80s, a horizontal top tube = boy's bike and a sloping top tube = girl's bike. As far as I can tell, that was never an official distinction, and I have no idea where it came from, but that (non) rule was set in stone for the kids in my town.

At 5'7 1/2 I was in between a Small and a Medium size MTB (27.5). I went with the S size and then changed the stem with a little longer one, not too much. It feels perfect now and I dont regret my decision. I prefer a smaller frame. I also never even considered buying a 29'er because I firmly believe that those are more suitable for taller riders, like 5'11 and taller. Shorter riders look funny on 29'ers imho.

Big fan, here, so the spirit of this comment is all positive… it takes real courage to admit that you’ve spent (how much?) on several pretty deluxe bikes but were still relying on stand-over! Otherwise nothing substantive to add. I will say that unless you ride real rough stuff, leaving your steerer longer than nec for a while is not a bad idea, so you can try moving things around. You can always cut more off.

Oh I can barely stand over my main bike. Of course, it is actually too big, I should be riding an s or m size, it's an L. Lucky I have long legs and it has very slack geometry especially for a 2017 MTB so it's usually okay unless I have a large backpack. It's only an issue at lights anyway, like sitting on the top tube while standing. I tilt it a little to get on usually.

A good consideration for the current market of bikes. Maybe this could also be directed at Frame brands to 1. Increase standovers for bikes so they will fit a larger demographic of riders 2. Prioritize fit over aesthetic. Promote diversity in riders in addition to diversity in fit. It's ok to have different fits resulting in different amounts of seatpost and headset spacers showing. I think there are few fit disadvantages in having more standover clearance. A rider with longer legs can always have more seatpost and add a few headset spacers for a trade-off of folks with shorter legs to have the standover clearance they deserve. I think there's an argument for more inner triangle framebag space, but I would suggest there are alternative ways to store luggage on a bike.

I tend to disagree, I cycle a fair proportion in stop start urban traffic and on mixed use parkland paths, tow paths often shared with dog walkers, fishermen and casual strollers, the main issue for me is to be able to comfortably stop and stay on the saddle and get my toes flatish to the ground, to make stop start cycling easy to do without popping on and off the saddle all the time. That's a personal preference i suppose and in a way not related to standover as bottom bracket height and saddle height are the critical measurements (somewhat disproving my own point). Nevertheless I still like some clearance over the crossbar, My inseam is shorter than yours and it is at a point where particularly with 700c and 29inch wheels with fat tires just that level above the road means small issues of the height geometry are critical for bike fit. Longer legged riders have adjustment down as well as up in modal frame sizes, as you say fore and aft corrections can be made in stem length and on saddle rails within limits.

😂 when you spoke about it making no sense prioritizing stand over for something bought to ride it was both funny and deeply wise. Thanks for consistently making, imo, quality and authentic content

To me it's more like..buy a bike which is designed to be used in a certain way.. why buying a specialized tarmac and fit a short angled up stem, when you can just buy a roubaix and have a bike designed to be that way geometry wise. When you lower the seat compared to the handlebar your weight will be shifted to the back of the bike. There are certain bikes which can be good ridden that way, certain that not. Put a long/short stem or a narrow/wide handlebar will modify the front end response of the bike, so be aware of that if puzzled about certain front end behaviours or feelings..

As kids, we would often ride adult bikes even when our legs would hardly reach the pedal. We would ride off the saddle or do half pedalling. Also, we used to ride with one leg through the frame. 😂😂 Never in 35 yrs of riding bicycles I’ve ever come across a emergency situation where I would need to jump off the saddle and straddle the top tube. I still can imagine how is it possible. It’s normally, put one foot down or swing the leg over the saddle and dismount (like triathletes do in transition) or simply jump off the bike and let go. When sizing a bike, I feel one of the most important factor is that the shoulders should remain relaxed while riding (any kind of bike). Sometimes two bikes with exact dimensions but with different BB drop will differ in standard over height, although the stack & reach would be same.