BUSTING THE MYTH about TS9 and TS808 Tubescreamer circuits 

Seriously dude? My super awesome vintage 808 was just about to go on Reverb for $600 so I can buy my cat dancing lessons. You just ruined it for me. And for Tinkerbell.

The TS9 has a more yellow-ish tone where the 808 is more triangular.

MAD RESPECT!!! More people need to be like you when shooting out stuff and ABing them. Don’t tell or show what is what. Guitar nerds like me hear with their eyes and don’t go after the actual best sound. They like what they want, stubborn and they rarely change their mind. I used to be the same way.

"Take the TS and get rid of the BS" You're a champ! 🏆

I get note of Carmel in the ts9. But notes of vanilla in the 808.

I stopped the video after the first couple changes on the circuit because I don't actually care which is which but when the switch was flicked from the first to the 2nd option there's far more high-end signal. Will watch the rest to see which is which but IMO there's a very noticeable tone difference. It's almost inaudible frequencies though but you can feel that there's this uncomfortable excess higher-frequency in the signal even on a recording with reasonable headphones or monitors. Because of the range it's in I think you could pretty easily wipe it out with an EQ so for practical purposes it probably doesn't matter as long as you know it's there but there is a distinct difference between the two circuits. I got through the first 3 circuit changes and there's a definitive high-end ring on whatever the 2nd circuit is.

What is the 'intended' then, from the designers?

Is that the reason (or one of...) people say that sometimes if you have two of the exact same pedals they can sound different?

Slight variables to sell different models. Pots are often overlooked by most people when ever I rewire my basses or guitars I typically want as close to the set value of the pot as I can get. Aim for within 2-5% if not dead on but depending on where you get em you can't be too choosy

I wanted a real Tubescreamer, but I wasn't readdy to shill out $200+ for a new or used pedal. So I grabbed a used TS7 for 35 bucks. Has the exact same circuit as the TS9 so it sounds just as magical :)

The 808 has a bigger sound cause it's a bigger number

I definitely prefer the TS9, because I got it for much cheaper than a TS808.

My ts9 sounds the best.... no one else's comes close.....why??? Cos my mother bought it for me26 yrs ago.

So what you're saying is, things sound different when you use pot. Through extensive research, I can confirm this theory.

I have been screaming at videos about this for years, even the stupid notion of comparing pedals by putting them at 12o’clock. It’s all randomness because of tolerance variability not to mention confirmation bias. I loved this video for busting that myth wide open at last. It makes the so called experts look like novices. Well done Brian.

I find the 808 has a woodier, oakier fragrance with a hint of flaccidity and a soupcon of the Absurd

Based on how much I practice, I find that the TS9 sounds like shit most of the time.

Well, it’s obviously the tone metal in the casing that makes the difference. Also, the vintage 808s used a different green lacquer, which vibrates at a smoother resonant frequency. That’s why they’re worth more.

Brian, remember those vintage pedals were wired with unicorn hair. Your test is invalid.

I love the way you're paying ohmmage to these pedals.

In other words, just buy the mini because it's cheapest :D

They almost sound as good as the Behringer TO800🤣🤣🤣🇨🇦🎸

They all made a similar sound when placed on top of the amplification head, but the last one had a little less thud.

My Ts9 has a cleaner sound because I’ve been brainwashed to believe so.

Great video! Pedal Myth Busters! 👍🙂

“We’re going to take the TS and get rid of the BS.” My favorite line ever in a gear video!

So, the JHS Bonsai is only simulating potentiometer variances?

This is why I stopped taking forums seriously for reviews

Thank you so much for making this video. I've NEVER been able to tell THAT much of a difference in the TS808, TS9 and Maxon versions. I mean I could always hear just a tiny bit of difference when put into a super clean uncompressed amp, but never much. Even different TS9s sounded different to me though, so I thought i was just crazy. All my 'music friends' told me I was tone def. So the fact that this video exists, makes me feel much better. Also, I love your pedals man. I have 3 so far :)

Brian, I have to admit that I didn't know the difference between the two til I watched this video. I found a used and abused TS9 at a Salvation Army thrift store a couple of years ago (I paid $8 for a box of pedals and TS9 was one of them- Lucky me!) All I had to do was wipe the penis artwork off of the box and replace the old knobs for new ones and its been great.

"Take the TS and get rid of the BS". QUOTE OF THE YEAR!

I once did a blind test with 3 pedals, an original TS808, a reissue TS9 and a cheap TS7. There are differences if you hear them side by side but any of them would do the job. I recently bought 2 "identical" new MXR distortions for 2 boards and tried to match them which was a hard job. One has more gain but less top end than the other and it's impossible to not hear the differences when you put them side by side.

I have a Maxon OD9. I heard that Maxon actually made the TS9 pedals for Ibanez. Great Pedal.

1:11 STOOOP the bus right there. "Take the TS and get rid of the BS." Haaaa! Sensational.

All I see is Brian can whip up a quick tubescreamer like making a sandwich and it sounds great.

Another clinical method to compare these pedals is to record a dry repeated control performance and then re-amp it thru the pedals for a tonal comparison.

The TS-808 is more transparent than the TS-9 in my opinion. It has more "grit" while the TS-9 has more "saturation". Also the Boss Big Muff is more transparent than the TS-808. They all, however, are less transparent than my trusty Red Panda Particle. When Stevie Ray Jimi used that on "My Big Green Tractor" I realized that the quest for true guitar tone would not be completed by one pedal vs another, but by practicing Lydian b7 b9 scales in 5/8 at 200.2b pm. Plug your acoustic into a Line 6 Spider like a REAL man (making sure to have 8 Big Sky's going before it) and have a Klon Centaur Professional Overdrive™ BEFORE the reverbs though. Tone is in the flangers. the phalanges? sorry for the philosophy goodnight

I loved when you set down your coffee (beverage). Possibly the most important piece of gear in that room. I'm happy with my Joyo Vintage OD. It does that green pedal thing for me. A tool, nothing more.

Brian, a 20 percent gain difference is not that different. Re: king of tone high gain vs normal gain. You probably used bog standard 1n914/1n4148 diodes in both circuits. Not uncommon. Many ts cloners forget the ma150 is a high headroom diode and every ts9 I’ve ever measured had @ .5 forward voltage cutoff where the ma150 is closer to .85. When you refer to “changing a couple of resistors”, I assume you are referring to is the output buffer which would only be heard in front of a pedal with poor input impedance (which was the reason for the change in the first place). That’s also the only time a nine series sounds brighter than an 808. It retains highs better in front of a poorly designed pedal. The higher headroom of the 808 actually does give a more open sound in the treble frequencies which is why the 808 sounds brighter and cleaner in optimum situations.

Ahh the BS difference clearly explained .. gotta love it when an expert sets it straight :-)

Hoo-boy. Maybe the only thing worse than self-professed "golden eared audiophiles" are "golden eared guitar gearheads". :D Brian, get ready - this could end up as bad as the tone-wood ragewar. lol I get it though. It can be so crushing and disillusioning when factual stuff like science and engineering calls into question long-held, often beloved pre-conceptions. There's gotta be a psychological term for this... cheers man!

We all know the paint has the biggest effect on the tube screamer tone. 🤣

Here's what I do when buying a pedal: I plug it into my rig (yes, I take my rig to the store - they don't mind), then I see how it sounds. If it sounds the way I want it to sound, for a price I want to pay, I buy it. That simple. I don't give a damn if it's labeled TS Mini, TS 9, TS 808, Klon, or any other such thing. It takes very little time or effort to see the reality of it all: Just take two "identical" pedals off the shelf and A/B them. They won't be identical. The same goes for instruments. As such, just test out what the store has and take home the one that best suits your needs. Leave the labels to the posers.

When you over pay for the 808 you believe it is different or even better.

I discovered when I was making a home built guitar just how much variation there is in pots. Some pots read as high as 550k and some as low as 450k. It never occurred to me at the time that this would be the same with pedals but now that you point it out, it all makes sense. Thank you for busting the myth.

Do you notice any difference between the JRC4558 and the TA75558 chips that they used? I own both, just curious what you thought.

The funny thing is, talking about the gain knob’s effect on the TS9/808 is like eating a banana without peeling it. The best way to use these pedals is gain low and the volume boosted in front of a CRANKED amp. Most comments on forums are bedroom levels through an SM57 which can only hear a fraction of the freqs. When people test, I suggest cranking and using 3 mics. A bass mic, an sm57 style for mids and a condenser good for highs to capture the air. Then you get the full picture re freqs. Great vid by the way. Keep em coming.

I once bought a pile of 80's Rats on eBay. In fact, I probably made the price skyrocket, just from buying ALL of them. They all sounded different... And I kept the one that sounded best to me. It was the one that sounded the most different. It was more open, and sounds absolutely amazing, especially at low gain. None of that veil over the upper frequency range that Rats usially have. Why did it sound better? No idea. Maybe it's broken.. Maybe it was modded... Maybe someone changed out a pot that wore out. Who knows. I don't really care... And if you try to get one of the same like mine, chances are, you'll never get it. Once you get a pedal and love all of ts quirks, don't let it go. You might not be able to get the same response ever again... Or you might. It's kind of like guitars. I really loved one guitar, so I bought 3 more. None of them gave me the same feeling. Slight variations in the geometry and the fact that wood is organic and not even pickups and pots are the same.. Well.. Whatever the reason, I must now unload the newer ones because they're worthless.. To me.. Although someone might bond with them with their setup. They're still great guitars.. They just give me the exact response for my particular style that my beloved one does.

Am I the only one who thought the upper mid/treble characteristic was different in the two modes he played? I still think the ts9 has a brighter character.

The true secret to maximizing the overall tone of any TS9/808 is running a 9v battery in conjunction with a power supply cable, it truly makes ever bit of difference. One more thing, use Energizer because that Rabbit gives it more kick 👍🏽

The ts9 sounds best because its green.....

Not here to dispute anything said here. I'm just wondering what the point of the additional parts in the TS9/808 are if they make no difference.

Nice video as always. But the world is full of this stuff. (My car definitely runs better after I wash it.) the way we see, taste, hear the world is hugely wrapped up in experience, nostalgia, fashion, etc etc. A slight difference in output impedance is not really audible of course, but the way you feel about a piece for gear is valid for creative musicians. OTOH, if a musician is caught up in constant gear swapping they need to be told this stuff so they can get on and jam!

Man, it's difficult to even tell my TS9 from my SD-1 once I'm going through a gain-y amp with some effects in the loop, and those are *entirely different pedals*. I've always thought anyone who claims to hear a systematic difference between the various tubescreamer models was full of it. Thanks for the vid.

Another tip, de-solder the stock IC from the circuit board and then solder-in an 8-pin IC socket, doing this makes it easier to swap-out the IC.

Yep.... The Pots are the key everyone. You can get a MSL or even a TS5 Soundtank.

You forgot to factor in the Fourier transformation effect that occurs when a guitar player has cleaned out their ear canal.

They all have a "green sound" ....(help I use spruce trees to clean my ears)

After buying a TS808 to sound like SRV people were like "WTF" when SRV's guitar tech came out and said that Stevie actually used a TS10 for a long time...sorry

Waiting for a Wampler special edition Metal Pedal complete with Joist hangers.

I bet Eric Johnson would know which one sounds the best....

The TS 9 sounded more like a very sharp Samurai Sword dipped in plum rice wine while the TS808 sounded like a finely honed battle axe used on the set of Braveheart after aging in a solid oak outhouse.

I'm so tired of hearing all the subjective terms thrown around when describing sound. Growl, warm, dark, bright, etc.

This is a great video. Spot on with the facts. thank you. also, the 808 is more vintage sounding because the 808 came from the 80s /s

Nicely shown, I just knew there wasn't any huge differences. Love your tech vids, keep them coming!

4:12 my pot is *420 ohms*

But your TS808 circuit sounds brighter and louder... This is confusing me.

It's all about pot.. I knew it!

Mind blown. So each pedal in each amp is going to be the differences. Amazing. This brings up more interesting conversation about how our brains remember tones/feelings about what we play and when and how we play it. This would be a great blog topic for Jason.

Sent this video to a guy who was telling me my Tubescreamer clone with a TS9 circuit doesn't sound the same as a real TS9. He still refuses to believe a circuit is a circuit and the brand has nothing to do with it.

That's the biggest solder sucker I've ever seen.

Not that it matters, but when you were doing the A/B, they sounded different to my ears. Not sure which is which - and doesn't matter to me. Do they sound identical to other people's ears?

The TS808 was the one I saw in the shop as a child. The TS9 was the one i bought when I finally had thd cash. The Maxon OD808 is the one i take to jams today. They both sound the same to me. But I still want a TS808. Our past defines us.

My ts9 has such a clean tone that I usually put it in the washing machine with my whites to brighten the wash.

Thanks for that Brian! The (marginal) tone difference between the two pedals is like moving your right hand just slightly towards the bridge, so you get more of a TS9 sound (or is it more like a TS808?) 😉 Anyway, I sold both my TS9 (mid 80s) and my 808 (original late 70s) and I am still very happy with my Pro Co Rat. Btw: SRV used TS808 in the beginning, then TS9 and TS10 in late 1988...food for thought?

He didn't mention one thing: this parts also change its properties during time - pedals sound different with age. I'm not kidding. So, there is a chance that vintage pedals with the same circuit as a new one will sound slightly different.

I think that circuit would sound much more tube-like if you used a vintage EXP-300 Experimentor Solderless Breadboard.

Bullshit. They absolutely sound different and can definately have different applications. Component tolerance is always part of the game even with your stuff you don't use 1% do you? I've been playing tube screamers for thirty years professionally. I have two of them both modded. One is a one trick pony very creamy Classic 808 vibe it's a TS-10. My TS 9 has 3 gain mod options and two tone cap options. I have germanium diode, zener and silicone diode clipping on a switch. I have classic 808 and TS-9 tones plus another more distorted selection. I have been a tone seeker for thirty years and have tried hundreds of overdrives. I recently purchased another boutique unit in hopes of getting something more or different I don't even know why I try. My two tube screamers destroy any and all pedals I have ever compared them to. They just put a brand new $200 boutique overdrive in a box in the corner. There are good and bad tube screamers same with Marshall amps and pickups. Heat also plays a big part in how pickups perform. The tube screamer is legendary and IMO still hasn't need topped. I'm playing cranked Marshall's with Les Paul with JB/Jazz or Strat with my own custom wound set at 6.9k RWRP. nothing I've ever heard compares to a good tube screamer hands down.

I'm old school distortion out side of amp. Clean amp with distortion outside. Pedals used an 808 for 25years I was routinely complemented on my sound all the time.

This is useful. I'm going to buy a TS. I posted a thread on TGP asking for recommendations. Actually the majority of comments were along these lines, i.e., "don't buy into all the crap, just get a TS9 or a TS mini". There were a lot of recommendations for TS type pedals from other companies, but not many people saying you have to have a vintage 808 or anything.

Thank you Brian!!! I have 9 Tube Screamer-type pedals (Ibanez, DIY and others) and they all sound almost Identical. Maybe some very small differences. Some because of tolerances but most of the differences I hear are in my head ;-)

How about the tubescreamer mini?

excellent explanation. I do prefer the 808 circuit and yes i can hear the difference

I love both but I own neither! I do own a modded Boss SD-1 which I also love...

Coming back to this, and I have to admit, I feel nothing is BUSTED. Yes, we heard a comparison in which the differences are miniscule, but the great question would be: what in fact ARE the differences, schematic-wise? Why is there a different product-line, TS9, compared to the TS808? I am quite sure they just didn't went ahead and lied and said "We are building the exact pedal, and calling it different to milk our customers", or? From what I have read, the difference is the resistors in the output stage as well as the diodes used, sometimes the chip. While the chip only has an effect if you use very less audio-friendly chips (high noise floor etc), you're good to go, so any JRC4558 variant will sound basically the same, and stuff like the OPA-chip and the TL-chip will sound fairly similar, if not identical. The diodes used in the TS808 had higher forward voltage, giving more headroom until clipping begins, if I understand correctly? And I think these changes were made to cater the TS9 toward back then popular solid state amps, since the way these amplifiers reacted to a TS808 was different to a tubescreamer. If these assumptions are correct, then yes, all the "tone-hunter-quotes" from the beginning are still rubbish, and barely makes no difference, but if the application intended for the product was vastly different, that would be a great difference. Would be great to have this kind of debunking/analysis on video. But, I also understand that you cannot take your time to showcase this in detail -you got pedals to build for a living, and this stuff is a nice extra for free, so yet: thanks for the video!

Well, basically both sound crap - myth dispelled 😂

Where is the maxon od808?

I easily picked the first slightly more treble less smooth breakup tone to be the TS9 and the smoother 2nd one was the 808. Every time he switched. I have them both and although the values change on components from pedal to pedal, there does seem to be a consistent audible difference, at least to me. But some cannot discern between Pepsi and Coke so.

At one point I owned an 808, a TS 9, and a TS 10 and could detect no major discernible differences between them. I just thought I had lousy ears. Thanks Brian!

People who think that great tone is in the equipment, are as dumb as people who think that great tone is in the musician's fingers. Great tone is in how drunk you are when you first hear it, or how nice that summer was, or the fact that that guy who gave the best head ever played that song a lot. If the song is great, the tone automatically becomes great, whether that exact tone would be considered great in a different song or not

I have an original TS 808 very good condition and in the original box with the original leaflet in the box.......A true collectors dream. Won't take a penny less than $1200 for it either!

I knew you started on TS9 setting (down) ... Sorry, but I COULD tell ... XD

808 is brighter !!!!!! to my deaf ears anyway.

And either way, they’re all Tube Screamers, so they ALL sound bad to some of us ;) :P

I absolute LOVE people talking about physical facts and effects, rather than opinions and perception! 🤘

All TS's sound like mushy green lumps of midrange. The reason they're so popular is that they correct the Strat's complete lack of mid range and ease some of the shrill treble.

The same people that are telling the world these pedals are so drastically different and it’s not the components, are the same ones that talk about getting a “good” Marshall…because of, you know…part tolerances.

I could both hear the difference and correctly chose which was which. I've played the TS9 for years and am extremely familiar with the sound (and also an audio engineer). Every time I plug in a TS808 I can hear the difference immediately and I really don't like them for what I do. Having the right drive completely changes the feel of my tone and how I play. Unfortunately, the real truth is that the difference is very small, some people can hear it and others cant (for various reasons), and to those that can it may or may not be important. To those who consider it important, like me, its nearly a deal breaker, so it tends to get overblown as an issue where it really only applies to players with an ear for it. As to the differences between the same models leading to massive price differences, I think thats sillier than the tone/feel difference.

Nice video, once again. But you know, ones made in the southern hemisphere do sound quite different from the northern hemisphere pedals because of the reversed spin of the electrons caused by the coriolis effect. It's true. I read it on the interwebs.

I know the schematic of the tubescreamer because I built it. I also studied buffers a lot, and the difference between the TS9 and TS808 is in the output buffer. No night and day difference, but there IS a subtle difference and you can definitely hear it if you know "where" (in the frequencies spectrum) to look for it: the 808 as slightly more top end presence and slightly less bass. I could spot which one was which easily at the blindfold test at beginning of the video. No, nobody will be able to go to a concert and say "oh yes, this is definitely a TS9 I'm hearing, it can't be a TS808". BUT if you know your gear, you might prefer one over the other, mostly depending on how your basic clean tone is set (brighter or darker). No, moving the TS tone pot doesn't really changes the tone in the same way. Yes, accommodating with your amp's presence control might give you the same results. But if you previously set your amp tone controls that way and like the result, why moving them to accommodate for a pedal? Luckily enough the difference is very subtle, so anyone can live with one or the other in his/her pedalboard. But people who had the fortune to try both (with their own gear) and have a preference, are not victims of a psychoacoustic bias! They are really hearing that difference (which anyone can hear in the video with a good pair of headphones/speakers, so thanks Brian) so they are not to ban!