Homelander is just hallunicating his own versions of different personalities. Butcher is hallunicating important persons in his life who had their own personalities. Yeah, pretty much but similar but different perspective
@@fildos4547he’s not hallucinating by thought though it’s the tumor creature that’s messing with his brain like some type of sentient projecting all his memories
Wonder if that baby would even turn out a Supe with how she lost her powers. Would be really interesting but I think it wouldn't matter since Butcher will be dead by the time the baby (potentially) arrives
Pretty sure Kessler didn't say that, he was talking about how Butcher took Becca for granted edit: but still, i also don't remember Billy not treating Becca well before everything, and even after he found out she's still alive.... maybe this was just Kessler shit talking him and trying to get into his head (HA!)
Hm yeah and I think Butcher would tell himself that sleeping with someone (out of grief? loneliness?) despite Becca being presumed dead is still cheating.
@@____ala5443 much much more psychopathic the comic ends with him killing all the boys except hughie imagine if show butcher never met Ryan or if Becca wasn't alive
Billy: "i luv me woife's son because i love me woife BECCA" Joe: "Is that really the reason? Or is it because.... you (shuffles cards) FVCKED A WAITRESS ALL THOSE YEARS AGO" Billy: 😦
@@Bastionedits When he fucked Maeve , Becca was already dead. This must be a trick from Parasite Kessler playing with his memories because having Butcher acutally being unfaithful to Becca after all these time just would really prove the writers this season really have sent everything downthefuckhill and worsening these character arcs.
In the comics, Butcher would kill people and make horrible things without realizing what he was doing, that's what he told to Jack from Jupiter when he was torturing him to death ("it's not me son, I'm somewhere else watching it happen"). I think Kessler is somehow an adaptation from this aspect of the character, comic Butcher knew what he was doing was wrong, killing his friends and innocent people, he couldn't just stop because his mind was too focked up
Hm I wonder if he cheated whilst they were actually still together or when Butcher was still searching for her after she disappeared. Wouldn't be surprised if he would tell himself that this still counts as cheating as he was determined to reunite with Becca
The thing this Kessler doesn't get is that Butcher's entire hate train for supes stems from what Homelander did to Becca. If Kessler makes him stop caring about Becca and Ryan, he pretty much takes away any reason Butcher has to hate Homelander, and any other supes. (Yes, I know Kessler is a hallucination. I'm still gonna address him as if he's real for this statement)
I don't know about that. When someone hurts your loved one it's like they hurt you. Even if Butcher completely stopped giving a fuck about Becca and Ryan I think the hatred towards Homelander as a man who raped another man's woman would still be alive and burning.
Kessler is dead but he's very much real, he's the personification of the V'd up tumor inside Butcher's head. He's not just some hallucination, as shown when he pushed Butcher to the brink of death in the bar because he wouldn't agree with him. Hell he may be in control of Butcher now.
Sounds like he had a drunken one night stand like he did with Maeve. I don't understand why some people think, a character who kills and tortures people in cold blood, would draw the moral line at cheating. Like come on, you know they're capable of far worse this shouldn't be a surprise. At least he's making it up to her now, by trying to save her son from becoming a monster
@@jairusjackson7799 yeah its hilarious. Him killing and manipulating his friends are "cool" but cheating? Thats what got people panties caught in a twist? This freaking world 🤣🤣
The thing is, he started his murder and torture spree after her wife was supposedly raped and killed by a supe. So this revelation even though not entirely a plot hole, still entirely fucks up butchers character.
@@muratbayraktar5035 i mean Negan still named his bat Lucille after his dead wife that he cheated on. They still love their wifes but both got lost in temptation. Not justifying cheating or their behavior but its funny how some are more triggered by Butcher cheating over him brutally killing supes or sometimes abondoning his friends to die. And sorry for that comment. I should have said him killing people he dont like, not his friends
Yeah it's not the same thing. He cheated on Becca while she was still alive. I'd argue Maeve is in the wrong here tbh because unlike Billy, her partner is still alive and she still cheated
After the end of season 4, i think what will happen is Annie fleas to meet Maeve and her girlfriend. When she gets there she sees Maeve and her girlfriend raising a 1-2 year old child which is revealed to be Butchers’.
@@Impulsessave I don't know how many days passed throughout the entirety of S3, but there's just a span of six months between the showdown with Soldier Boy and S4. And since nobody saw any goddamn baby belly, King Butcher would probably still prepare his great "coming out".
@@elscud. retcon? retcon what? he cheated on his wife, there's no statement that he never cheated on her, "she didn't mention it" it's most likely she doesn't know, the only people who probably know are William and the waitress
Fr. They're ruining this show with all of these supposed "a-ha" plot twist moments, even with Kimiko's subplot. Plus, most of these subplots get all mixed up and condensed into one episode, not giving time for them to make sense at all because oops, now there's a scene with Tek Knight SA'ing Hughie and Omelanda drinkin milky milk
@@BlackBrazilianBoy children of supes do not have abilities. Only Homelander can produce children with his abilities because he is the result of combining the sperm of Soldier Boy and Compound V and was born a supe. Maeve was just given huge doses of V in infancy.
@@BlackBrazilianBoy Children of supe do not have abilities. Only a Homelander can produce children with his abilities because he is the result of combining the sperm of Soldier Boy and Compound V and was born a supe. Maeve was just given huge doses of V in infancy.
@@BlackBrazilianBoynot sure it works that way or else Ryan wouldn’t be the first natural born supe, however, Andre from Gen V does has the same power as his father.
@@talapantedtoad6461def the worst season lol I just watched seasons 1-3 and the writing is so much better which makes sense considering season 4 had all new writers.
The way Kessler smiles after Butcher almost dies in a later scene is by far the most intriguing thing in this season so far... R.I.P. Butcher, Welcome Negan
This is such a dumb plot point why would butcher cheat on Becca? The entire point of her character is to show that there is some humanity in Butcher that he is better than what his father tryed to make him Becca is Butcher’s light him cheating on her is just so dumb and unnecessary it felt like it was just thrown in there to make us dislike Butcher
Why? Cheating is nothing compared to what he's done. The point is Butcher is a shitty person even to the people he loves. He's shitty to his brother, Hughie, Ryan, and even Becca
@joseluis5055 The point was, at least from what we're given, that Butcher loved Becca so much he changed FOR her, that's how it was in the comics and it was exactly how it was played in this show too. Had the plot device not been 'Billy's evil thoughts are undermining him', they would've kept him as devoted as we thought he was. While the whole thing about 'Kessler' trying to downplay Billy's devotion to Becca was done really well, it kills quite a bit of what made Butcher so compelling (at least for me). Anyway, my point is that the one redeeming quality of Butcher is gone. The story seemed to be written such that Becca changed him, and him losing Becca changed him back (hell, worse than before). The fact that he was still an alcoholic after getting with Becca undermines everything we've been told and shown so far.
It's amazing to Jeffrey that he still continues to add his negan touch to the guys with Karl's Butcher. And leaving his facts exclusively for Butcher. It's still important!!!
Ryan is a complicated matter He can be great but he can also be a problem. Its risky killing him cause he is the only one who,if he grows up,can CERTAINLY defeat Homelander based on statements. Its has been stated by the writers in interview that when he became enraged with Stormfront,his heat vision FAR surpassed that of his father. So its not just a fan theory,it was officially confirmed by the writers. For a moment he accessed his potential When he reaches full physical maturity he will always be that powerful and physically as well. However thats when he will FAR surpass Homelander,if we are talking about even BARELY surpassing him then that would happen earlier before peak physical maturity. If he kills Ryan and somehow Homelander survives then Homelander will worse than ever and with no one to stop him. He would ACTUALLY destroy everything and all of humanity. Ryan can become like Superman,or he can become a far more powerful Homelander or most likely something between which seems where its going due to him having both his mothers humanity and characteristics from Homelander. Better than a virus,the radiation from Soldier Boy is much safer,it can depower without killing. They should find a way to study Soldier Boys ability and harness it in a more accessible way. That way Homelander would get what he truly deserves,not having power,he would be just a skinny dude and vulnerable to many. Killing him is better than he deserves.
What an assassination on his character smh. If it were when he thought Becca died or after she acc died then that's different, if it was before they met Homelander at the party then there was no need for this imo Just cuz he's a murderer doesn't mean that he would do this. Does that mean that Hughie, MM (when he was with Monique) and starlight would cheat and it would be fine cuz it's "likely?" Besides, he was a criminal murderer at the start of s1 basically, prior to that he was in the marines/British SAS or whatever, the only reason he murdered was to get his revenge on homelander BECAUSE HE THOUGHT HE KILLED BECCA Why would they reveal that he cheated on Becca outta the blue? Even if you point to him wanting to swap Ryan out in S2 finale, he did that FOR BECCA, cuz he didn't like Ryan (which makes sense as he's a Supe from homelander's r*pe) and only cared about Becca It would be 10x better if Butcher's story is kinda like Hamlet's and how losing a loved one can turn into a quest of revenge in their name while you drive those closest to you away, not because you're a "crappy murderer person" who never loved the one you're avenging
Billy was never a saint. He was never a hero. He's just a guy, and like most guys, they fuck up. Everyone falls down, what matters is what you do when you get back up... and Butcher is really good and tripping himself.
You don't need to be a saint to not be a cheater. And "everyone messes up" is not valid to excuse it or to write Butcher this way. This was bad plain and simple. They thought it would be good to reveal that one of our protagonists, who is fuelled by revenge, his wife being r*ped, missing and killed, actually cheated on her during their relationship before the series cuz "everyone messes up" and "butcher is just a terrible person?" Especially in the 2nd last episode of the 2nd last season. 5 years after season one. I don't think I can accept their decision to do this, but at LEAST, plain dialogue from a hallucinated character is not the time, place or long enough to reveal such a thing. And I almost feel, just like may things, this will be totally abandoned by the FINALE
To be fair they haven’t specifically clarified whether this was before or after Becca went missing, the guilt of cheating could very well be his psyches regret in having sex with someone else after his wife's supposed death.
@@Samortez True true you're right. I think it would be 10x better if it happened like that instead of when they were together I do wish they Kessler could've said something that would imply that it was after her death so it's a little more clear but 🤷♂
It gives the vibe there was more to it, but was cut. So many times already this season have there been one off mentions of something big, only to not be explored further. Its like, it was going to be a subplot, but was abandonded, and only bits made the cutting floor
That waitress reveal feels like an asspull outta nowhere. Like a cheap attempt for shock value or something. It literally adds nothing and just cheapens the character. Would've been better if Billy was inching deeper in his V-induced insanity instead of this waitress bs.
That wasn't a reveal, that was just kessler trying to say to butcher that he shouldn't listen to becca's wish as their love was always fragile and instead do what he himself wants to do.
Its so bad. Sums up the whole season. Shock value for no fucking reason, its like they want to cram as much subplots as possible just to farm engagement
@@idkidk503 You knobhead. This IS a reveal. For us as the AUDIENCE. This is the first time you are hearing about this waitress, right? Try to catch up. This is just shit writing.
Butcher said he remembered pulling Kessler out and saving his life. Then Kessler said he didn't. That he left him for dead in the valley. The tumor is messing with his memories
Honestly though I’m glad Billy is standing up to his darker impulses. Shows he’s not weak even though he’s done awful things in his past. At the end he does have everyone’s best interests at heart even though he’s a broken bastard who’s talking to ghosts.
That’s why he’s going to loose to homelander if he’s not honest To his real self and give in how is he going to get the job done in killing Homelander if he’s soft all of sudden
@@visionbhattarai7080 Children of supes do not have abilities. Only Homelander can produce children with his abilities because he is the result of combining the sperm of Soldier Boy and Compound V and was born a supe. Maeve was just given huge doses of V in infancy.
Kessler is trying to break down whatever humanity Billy has. He WANTS Billy to lose faith in himself and the world and go on the mass murder spree that his subconscious wants.
@tablesalt2628 Redemption only works when you mean it and Butcher is still playing at someone who is honorable when we know he isn't and that he would stop at nothing to kill Homelander. The thing that makes The Boys is that there are no heroes. Becca even in the comics knew that Billy was no different then Homelander and that his rage would consume him in the end and it did.
@tablesalt2628 Yeah and I also know that he has made some pretty amateur mistakes like shooting Neuman in the head when he should know that is not going to do jack or sh*t(unless he was doing that to be a c*nt himself then it would still pretty rookie of him). Billy isn't becoming good for he is fighting against his rage that took the form of Kessler and his sanity that took the form of Becca on top of him dying. Becca herself in the comics knew that Billy was pass saving and yet she still married him for some reason and well that didn't end well for The Boys and unless Billy is going to have a massive change and he becomes a hero then Billy is going to give into his rage and maybe he might actual kill Homelander like he could've more then once. Billy is going to have to make a choice and the only reason he hasn't gone off the rails is due to his team that he has gone behind their back more than once just to saint his rage and in the comics he kills that time and Hughie killed Billy shortly after. All we know is that the showdown is going to be at the White House and it isn't going to go down like in the comics. But the stage will be at the White House none the less.
@tablesalt2628 well he should've already known that supes are not affected by bullets. They are either bulletproof like homelander or have strong regeneration like kimiko
Way to screw with the most important aspect of Butcher’s character, and what Becca’s whole purpose was: to be Billy’s one love and pull him back to the light. I guess he didn’t care enough about her until she was ‘dead’.
After the end of season 4, i think what will happen is Annie fleas to meet Maeve and her girlfriend. When she gets there she sees Maeve and her girlfriend raising a 1-2 year old child which is revealed to be Butchers’.
I could be wrong but I think Kessler is supposed to be the personification of the monster inside of butcher's head talking to him. When it wouldnt come out during the Deep + Noir fight and Kessler said "silent treatment goes both ways", that showed to me he's the monster inside butcher's body speaking to his head.
Maybe the reason they’re bringing up the Cream P is maybe, just here me out, it results in a kid that ultimately helps give Butcher the ammunition he needs to tell Tumor Negan to fuck off?
After the end of season 4, i think what will happen is Annie fleas to meet Maeve and her girlfriend. When she gets there she sees Maeve and her girlfriend raising a 1-2 year old child which is revealed to be Butchers’.
The fact that you have been a terrible person should never be an excuse to keep at it. You know what you did, but what will you do now? That's the important question.
This revelation feels a little needless. The thing that makes billy such an interesting character is his desire to avenge his wife, the very loss of her is primarily what shapes his cynical view of supes in the first place. We've seen him push himself back and forth between ruthless anti hero and full fledged villainy in order to achieve these goals, the kind of pushing boundaries that makes morally gray characters like him so interesting. And now we've been hit with a bombshell that is trying to tell us that becca really didn't mean all that much to him. This is a huge problem narratively speaking. It's been made clear several times by butcher himself that he became a better man because of her, that she saved him from becoming the kind of despicable person his father tried to beat him and his brother into becoming. Their relationship wasn't just founded on gratitude, he did very clearly love her. She was the light of his world, he practically worshipped the ground she walked, and he was happy being with her. But all of that happiness came crashing down around him after she's assaulted by homelander and supposedly dies giving birth to his son, resulting in a tailspin of actions that bring out the butcher in billy. If becca was someone that he took for granted, if she really was someone that could be an afterthought after violating the sanctity of his marriage by hooking up with some random waitress, then what was the whole point of him joining the boys in the first place? It feels like the writers are trying to sully his motivations so they can make out to be a worse person than he actually is. Something that I feel is a little unwarranted, because we're all fully aware that in terms of morals, billy is far from a paragon of virtue.
For those with their panties in a twist, the tumor is changing Butcher's memories. Butcher said he remembered saving Kessler and then Kessler said he left him to die in the valley. The tumor is trying to control Butcher by changing his memories. Also, the Tumur is eating away at Butcher. But when the tumor ate Ezekiel, he was in perfect health for a while after. He needs to keep consuming supes to stay alive
Butcher never cheated on Becca in the comics. He might be unhinged but I’m not accepting this change in story. Idk why they’d put that in the show. Still gonna watch obv
The Tumor (aka Kessler) is fucking with Billy's memories hence why Billy thought that Kessler was real and that he saved him. It's probably the same case again here. Or Billy was actually blacked out when he cheated and quit drinking altogether the next day as he said.
i want to believe this either didnt happen, or happen in some other time, because its such a weird plot point to bring about.... i want to believe kessler is telling him this as a means of manipulation... i mean, he made butcher believe he saved him for a long time, when he actually just let him die. i want to believe...
I mean Kessler did modify butchers memory to make it seem like he WASNT a hallucination, so it’s not out of his range of abilities to do this to manipulate butcher
I firmly believe that is kessler just messing up his thoughts to bring butcher into the darkness. He did it for his own death making butcher believe he is alive so why not this.
Antony Starr's acting is carrying this season. I went from hating Homelander (which, again, great acting,) to looking forward to seeing Antony's performance when he is in the scene.
It makes sense that these actions would be brought up only now. Butcher obvously regreats cheating on Becca. Kessler is the bad side of Butcher and constantly brings up his bad past and actions.
I know everyone is mad about butcher cheating on Becca but keep in mind they left a lot out. It’s said that Butcher quit drinking the next day. At the beginning of last season it was established he had stopped drinking. It’s possible this happened after Becca’s death in season 2 and he just considered it cheating. Or it could have been while she disappeared. I would say wait for more evidence before jumping to conclusions. If it actually was while he was with Becca before season then it’s definitely a big character assassination.
Well in s2 Butcher was about to separate Becca from Ryan and even got to the point of doing a deal with Edgar. So he's been established to be a cunt who's able to break the trust of his loved ones to pursue his own interests. Very unexpected but honesty i can see it
@@Brandonweifu so? Even scums are loyal that's what the relationship here and Butcher has been like that, no indication of why he cheated on the maid, it's a character assassination
I've been defending this season's writting so far, but this, this is shock value made wrong, the whole point of Billy is his revenge for the only thing that he loves, Becca. This doesn't make you think "omg he's such a pso", this actually undervalues the entire character and his reasons.
We always knew Billy had a pent up amount of evil in him, so now we gotta question which side of him goes to heart. How can it be for shock value when the only thing it does is make his character more complex? Fucking rabbit even I UNDERSTOOD THIS.
I disagree. The show has shows us multiple time and Butcher is a bastard and would hurt the one he love, that his character. Him cheating doesn’t mean he didn’t love Becca it just means he is a piece of shit and bad human being but now he’s trying to be better and make up for his mistakes it just make him more complex. Ffs Butcher lies, manipulates and kills people what make you think he wouldn’t cheat
@tablesalt2628 my point is they could've done this in a less undermining way. It just feels thrown out there to cause a reaction from the viewer and not something that was thought up for a long time. It felt forced *In my opinion*.
@@NyiPyaeSone his wife is his whole arc motivation for last 3 seasons. Now it's another, they don't really need to shit on the last arc to work on the new one, it feels lazy.
@tablesalt2628 they didn't really need to do the whole cheating thing. There are better ways to make him a pso without making less of his entire reason for being a character in the first place.
Ikr its disappointing. I feel like a lot of this season could have been written better imo. Like the plot armor some of these characters have or just them making dumb decisions to keep the show going. Hughie should be dead when he was in the vents and the deep should've died this episode. Then this scene randomly undermines Butcher's main character motivation. Like I get wanting to show he's a hypocrite or that he's a menace but with something so tangentially important to his character it just seems so far off the dot
After the end of season 4, i think what will happen is Annie fleas to meet Maeve and her girlfriend. When she gets there she sees Maeve and her girlfriend raising a 1-2 year old child which is revealed to be Butchers’.
He's a terrible person who is more than willing to kill innocent people to get what he wants. Cheating is very in character for him, he is NOT a good man
@@joseluis5055 he wasnt a brutal murderer when becca was alive. What homelander did to becca and her disappearance was the catalyst causing him to become morally gray and be willing to kill innocents
@@tejasiyer1923 he was already a murderer. He worked in shady special forces, a few with Joe Kessler. Homelander raping Becca and her disappearance is what caused his wrath to be directed at Vought and Supes, but that doesn't mean he was perfect with Becca. We know he has a habit of being shitty even with people he loves
No, it was to further proof that this is a path Butcher is doing for the sake of his own revenge. It's like Mallory said, always selfish and never actually about Becca or Ryan. He's shitty to even the people he loves the most
@@Dottol- just because he cares about Becca it doesn't mean he was prefect with her or didn't fuck her over, like he's done with other people he cares about.
Mentioning Butcher's you know to Maeve almost made me think they'd have a kid - continuing the parallel between him and Homelander (having a child with "their" respective women). But I suppose that point blank blast of radiation from Soldier Boy would've aborted whatever was there before it formed, along with the V.
Completely unnecessary. I prefer knowing he delved into madness after losing his light aka Becca rather than this hE WaS aLWays horrible nonsense. The writing really has been getting worse.
Well start thinking with your head It tells us that butcher always was full of shit and that everything he gave a reason to fight for was just an excuse of justification for his acts of violence which he enjoys and in s4 he faces that side of him and finally really cares. I am not saying he never cared for becca, I am saying that he always just took it as an excuse and justification for violence
@@anieltavares7991my man last episode was a filler bullshit with almost to none plot progressing narrative. At this point, its easy to say the writing's falling off
I don’t understand why people are so mad about this! Butcher has always been terrible AND he loves Becca. That was made clear all the way back in season 2.
Nah a lot of husband cheat atleast once throughout their whole marriage. You dont hear it cause they normally hide it. I would say like 60% of husbands have cheated
I mean, in s2 Butcher was about to separate Becca from Ryan and even got to the point of doing a deal with Edgar. So he's been established to be a cunt who's able to break the trust of his loved ones to pursue his own interests
@tablesalt2628True love, in real life, would make it so that alcohol doesn't make you cheat. Alcohol reduces your inhibition to resist urges, and when you love someone (and if you care about morals and whatnot, but eh), your urges are not to fuck the closest thing to me. Besides, Butcher being an alcoholic when with Becca reads like a retcon, and his cheating given his characterisation seems like a cheap plot point done for the sake of having Kessler undermine him. If Kessler wasn't the plot point, I sincerely doubt they'd have written his infidelity in, especially considering all that we've seen.
Negan has to be free or at least butcher should listen to him and go on full blown Lucille and Negan on those supes like how Negan went for glenn and Abraham at the lineup
@@JohnWick-kb5jrPersonally i just refuse true relationships for that reason,i refuse to cheat but there is also no way i will just shit iddle with any one woman,i just like too many,there are many women i am attracted to. I only met ONE woman,at a business meeting that if she liked me i would want a true relationship with and not want any other but she is considerably older and doesnt like me I dont want to cheat cause my father cheated on my mother countless times and i like going against him. Luckily for me,i dont feel urges for a true relationship,i dont feel a lot of that stuff that others seem to feel. Not even a thing about too high standards appearance wise,i just dont like people in general
