Buying Flexible Solar Panels From China 

Hi archiscale, The video is quite interesting and I will look more into his work. One of the main goals of my build is to create a stealthy van and these thin flexible panels are ideal for that purpose. The first generation of these panels had many issues and heat dissipation is often mentioned as one of them. My research frequently encountered it, but I have found few actual real-life documentation of it. The new type of flexible panels that I have are as efficient or better than rigid panels and hopefully some of the issues have been dealt with (most notably the delamination of the PET laminates by using ETFE). I'm not an expert in this, but some explain that the metal roof works like a heat sink; I also left some space where the 'corrugations' in the roof are for some airflow as you can see in this weeks video (this Friday). Raising these panels would nullify the stealth properties of the van, so to counter a possible diminished output, I choose a simple solution to add more solar panels; that's easier, cheaper and I remain stealthy. A side note on the heat issue: if it is an issue, it is likely to happen more during summer, when most systems should be oversized. During winter, when output is reduced but more vital, it should be less of a problem. Thanks for taking the time to respond; time will tell how it works out. Preliminary tests (no load/open circuit) with three panels (405W) on the roof of the Ford Transit have shown on a sunny morning in Florida at 10AM in November 28V/8.5 Amps output (before MPPT). That is encouraging! Van Williams

A well-balanced description of the issues with flexible solar panels. But my practical me looks at it a bit different. As you said, the cooler you can keep any solar panel, the better its performance. An extra panel is also a simple solution for that. I also would say that flexible panels aren't made to be bend multiple times and then only minimally, say 5%-10% at most. By the way, there are special flexible panels that have multiple connections inside, which can withstand a lot of abuse, but they are difficult to find. Solid panels last longer than flexible ones. Yet with some knowledge, you can find high-performance and long-lasting flexible panels. Cells should be Grade A and the finish must be ETFE. My advice is always, that if you don't absolutely need the flexibility of the panels, just buy solid panels. Those are time-tested, warranted for 25 years, cheap and long-lasting. None of that is applicable to flexibles. After five years, I still think that I made the right choice (for me); I absolutely did not want to see anything mounted to the van. But for the roof vent, that's what I accomplished. Van Williams

Hi Peter, yes they do. Had one small issue earlier this year, where the top foil layer started to loosen at two edge locations. Used a strong 3M spray glue and that solved it. You didn't ask for advice, but I will give it anyway. If you plan to buy these type of panels, get ETFE panels, preferably with backcontact cells and grade A quality. The latter is always an issue, because you have trust the seller. While I'm satisfied (so far) withe these panels, I would only recommend them if you absolutely want or need stealthy panels. Stick with rigid panels otherwise. They are much cheaper, have a proven longevity, somewhat better efficiency and longer warranty. Have a great day! _Van Williams_

Hi Vinny, Yeah, Joey thinks he's the boss, but he is a great companion. I agree with the mess when one caulks these panels. Another method is to bolt or screw them to the roof. That creates more holes and a chance of leaks; it also is not really necessary anymore, with the popularity of VHB tape. Vhb tape is what I will use. not in a continuous strip, but with smaller pieces of tape, creating more spaces where air can flow underneath and cool the panels. It is so strong that it isn't removed easily either, but certainly not as messy. In an upcoming video, I'll explain all the necessary parts and what I considered to be the best installation method for my project. And Yes, the length of the videos... Many requests and little time... I'm working on it. I view that as a compliment; thank you! Van Williams

No, twelve minutes is long enough!

I think 10 minutes is a good time; sometimes it will be a bit longer or shorter, all depending on what's happening. Van Williams

Hi Ty, Agreed, but there may also be an issue of heat dissipation. It is often mentioned, less often documented. The advantages outweigh the disadvantages, I think. Van Williams

@@cargovanconversion maybe you could get some aluminum or copper sheet metal to use a backboard/heatsink for the panels?

@@kingarthurthe5th The best solution is still just adding an extra panel for efficiency loss. With the advent of Lithium batteries solar maybe less important; DC-DC converter will produce more power, and faster in a much shorter time. Van Williams & Joey

Hi nagualdesign, These panels are barely visible from the ground, if at all. Only the MC4 connectors stick out a little bit. The preliminary testing (open circuit/no load) looks good and even in early November (on a sunny day in Florida) I might be able to bring in more than 120A. You will see more testing soon! And Joey thanks you! Van Williams

Hi 228kw, Thank you. I did a very brief update recently about the VHB tape used to attach the panels to the roof ru-vid.com/video/%D0%B2%D0%B8%D0%B4%D0%B5%D0%BE-y1vDj8NGH1I.html I will do a more comprehensive review in a couple of months, a year after installation. So far, they exceeded expectations; they are especially good in less than ideal situations: early morning/late afternoon or cloudy days. Would use them all over again. Van Williams

Hi kabzak, Thanks for watching! Van Williams

Late to respond, had some health issues, but now I'm back :) There are some consistent misconceptions about flexible panels. Mine have been installed 3-4 years ago and still work as they should. Many (often logical) issues have been raised, but I've seen little proof for any of them. I do assume that increased heat will diminish output, but an extra panel will take care of that. Want to remind you, my panels were high quality and not run-of-the-mill. Van Williams

Hi Clint, Yeah, it can be a bit complicated when buying from China, I've been lucky and so far avoided import taxes, either through small purchases or exempt items. With solar panels it recently has become more complicated with added tariffs. For rigid solar panels, I would buy in the US; many affordable sources here and lower transport costs (see sunelec.com). Van Williams

Hi Nic, First time, I heard about yellowing of these panels. Did it influemce both amperage and volt output? Would like to know, if these were 'first generation' flexible panels with basically non-backcontact solar cells and PET as top laminate. Most panels look the same, but there are many grades of solar cells available, most often cheap ones that fail quickly, because the consumer can't see the difference. Delamination has also been an issue and the UV levels at your place may have a significant impact too. My panels have the newer, high efficiency backcontact solar cells and the expensive ETFE laminate. I have only done some preliminary testing, with good results, but time will tell! Have a great day, mate! Van Williams

Hi yougeo, The information sometimes gets buried somewhere, but I always try to give as much info as I can in the video, through links in the description and much more in detail on the website cargovanconversion.com My apologies, if that was an issue. That said, these are Link Solar GFL-135 Flexible solar panels; 135 watts each, 59.5" x 22", ETFE laminate, Back contact Sunpower high-efficiency solar cells. I have 405W on the roof of my Ford Transit. While Link Solar is a sponsor of my website, I have no other links to the company. Their current price (Nov.2017) for the 135W panel is $350-$400 cargovanconversion.com/LS Somewhere in the comments you'll find my current calculation of my setup. I came down to approx. $1500 for three 135W panels, cable gland, MC4 connectors, MC4 extension, 3M VHB tape, breaker box, circuit breakers, controller, remote meter, welding wire, lugs, several crimping tools and Blue Sea powerpost, busbars and fuse box. Virtually everything to make it work except the batteries. 3-Day Fedex airfreight was included. A day before delivery Fedex requested a customs form that was supplied by Link Solar and they took care of the importation. Import tax could be levied, but not in my case. Hope this helps you a bit and please, comment if you have others questions. Have a great day! Van Williams

Shipping was included in the price and it was sent airfreight, in my case through FedEx in three days. Van Williams

Hi Mario, I hope these work out too :) Most of the installations that I've seen, are from the 'first generation' of these flexible panels. They used a different top laminate, called PET, which tended to delaminate. The solar cells used in those panels were also of a low quality. Then some better-known RU-vidrs exaggerated the properties of these panels by bending them in any direction and by walking on them. Not all, but many panels failed within a year or two. The panels that I have, have a high quality of the latest Backcontact Sunpower solar cells and the top laminate is made of ETFE, supposedly a higher grade and more efficient top layer. In the end, the quality has to be proven again with years of service, before we can be certain about it. But my primary objective was, to stay as stealthy as can be and the reason for me to take the risk. I will update my experiences over the coming months. Van Williams

Just to be clear, my panels are 135W each, but to keep things simple, I'll talk about a 100W panel, a more common size. There are two ways to approach your solar panel requirements. First, in a general sense, a basic, minimal system when you live permanently in a vehicle, would consist of two 100W solar panels, backed up by adequate battery storage (i.e. ~ 200Ah battery bank); this would be a good sized system for basic needs. 400W in solar panels with ~400Ah in battery backup will take care of most of your needs. Second, a more precise method to calculate your needs, is by finding out the number of watts or amps each appliance uses each day (on average). With the total number of Amps used per day calculated, one would be able to find out the number of solar panels needed. The average 100W solar panel can produce ~5.6Ah. A southern sunny day would on average give you 5-6 hours of full sun, which translates into 5 times 5.6Ah = ~28 Amps per panel. Divide the number of Amps needed that you calculated earlier by the number of Amps produced to find out how many 100W panels are needed. What makes it difficult to get to a precise number is that you always deal with a lot of averages: average available amount of sun (is different in summer and in winter, it can be cloudy or it rains). Average needs: in winter the days are shorter, so you use the lights longer and watch more TV. Then the solar panels may not be optimally position towards the sun or they are in the shade. Lots of variables. To answer your specific question, my laptop uses 2.37A @ 19V which translates to ~3.75A @ 12V; that means that I could run the laptop on a solar panel that produces 5.6Ah. Charging the same laptop can be done at 12V on a 1A or 2A USB charging station, but it would take a couple of hours to charge the laptop battery. In practice, you should have a surplus of solar panels that would keep your battery bank charged; then you could charge the laptop from the house batteries. Hope that this sense to you :) Van Williams

Hi Komer, no ad here. Just have had a great experience here. Always have had a reluctance to buy more expensive items from China, but it worked out great. I don't do promotions unless I've used the products myself and like them. Thanks for commenting anyway. Have a great day! Van Williams

Hi JONJONWORD, Thanks for watching! It is about time! No more generators or propane and enough cheap power to live a (fairly) normal life. Van Williams

Hi ThisSpotRules, What to say about that :) It's funny, how things sound different when I say them, then when I hear them. I probably have to get over that, lol! Van Williams

Hi kenneth, I have other videos with a lot of that information, add links to product info and write often more specifically about these subjects. You can also find multiple replies to similar inquiries among these comments. The main reason why I ended up with Link Solar is that besides the need for flexible panels, I was looking for panels that fit the width of the roof of a Ford Transit closely. They were one of the few that supported this size. These three 135 watt panels are 59.5" x 22" and the distance between the two built-in gutters is 60 inch. This means an easy installation and it maximizes the total output. Since I have a rear roof vent I was able to place up to three panels on the roof, that are virtually invisible from the ground. I would be able (on a LWB) to add one more panel, but that becomes visible and I choose not to. Through my circuit breaker box, it's simple to add more (mobile) panels, if needed. The main improvements of these panels over the first generation flexible panels is the use of ETFE laminate instead of PET. It is less relective and hopefully resolves the issue of delamination. The cells are high grade Backcontact Sunpower cells with an efficiency of around 20%. You can read all about it on their website cargovanconversion.com/LS While Link Solar is a sponsor of my website, I have no interest in their products or business. I could buy smaller 100w panels on Amazon and alike, but that would mean a collection of horizontal and vertical panels, likely with unused space, more cables and more voltage drop. It was difficult to find this specific size (in combination with the other requirements). Production of the panels took two weeks and shipping was airfreight with FedEx 3-4 days. Fedex called me for a customs form, which was supplied to me by Link Solar and they took care of the importation. There is a chance of import duties, but that was not levied in my case. You as the buyer would be liable for that. The inverter was not part of this part of the setup. I will post about that at a later time (my specific setup requires two inverters, one 2000w, the other 1000w). I have currently no batteries, the plans are a 200Ah-400Ah Lithium battery bank. They will be purchased and installed at a later time; for the time being, I'll install two 6V lead-acid batteries for testing and some basic camping. All that in a future video. There was not much choice between Amazon, Westmarine or alike as the specific size was not available. And while I had a good experience, I still think there are inherent risks when buying directly from China. If you can find the perfect set of panels on sites like Amazon or even Aliexpress, that would be a safer bet, because these companies offer many guarantees of delivery and payments. PS Just a couples of days ago, I preliminary tested the three panels (405W) after they were installed on the roof of the Ford Transit. It was 10AM on a sunny Florida morning (Nov 2017); they generated (open circuit/no load) 28V/8.5A That would mean they could generate more than 100A-120A on a daily basis close to winter. I would be satisfied with that. Please comment if you have more questions. Van Williams

Hi Juan, Tomorrow I'm posting the first of three videos about the installation. And I actually haven't gotten my batteries yet. My plans are to get 200Ah-400Ah Lithium battery bank. As that technology is still new and pricey, I'll wait and get a set of 6V lead-acid batteries, so I can do some testing and connect just a few basic loads. Van Williams

Cargo Van Conversion . I can't wait to see your next video about batteries. I am also building my own camper van and I think I will use two Trojan 6 volts batteries in serial connection. I was reading about Rolls batteries from Canada, but they are pricey and with less cycles than Trojan ones . Thanks for your answer.

Hi Steve, I hope you're doing better health wise. That would mean some more work on your truck... Joey already gets too many hugs, although one more wouldn't hurt him :) Solar in an RV is basically fairly simple, but with all the options and variations, it quickly becomes an interesting mess. Too many types of cables and thicknesses, types of panels, controllers, amperage, voltage drop. It sometimes gets confusing. Lots of time in the design, and even more, amending it. Good to hear from you! Van Williams

Hi Yiddish SheKop, When you have to work with small areas, that are also curved and you want to maintain some sort of stealthiness, you have little choice. But I waited specifically on changes to the 'first generation' of flexible panels. They came with some issues, that I think have been addressed in the latest version of panels. Efficiency is equal or better than rigid panels. The 'first generation' was also badly promoted by bending them around every corner and walking on them excessively. With a more sensible approach and better cells and laminations, these latest panels could be what we've been waiting for. I'll keep posting my experiences with them for some time. Good luck and keep me informed how things work out! Van Williams

Hi Chantelle, These are better quality panels, made with more expensive ETFE laminate and higher grade/quality Backcontact Sunpower solar cells. They come in many sizes and consequently, prices. I was fortunate, that LinkSolar cargovanconversion.com/LS had these 135W panels with an overall length of ~60inches (~1560mm), which is virtually the same as the width of the roof of my Ford Transit van. This optimizes the use of the roof and makes installation easier. You can find current offerings and pricing on their website cargovanconversion.com/LS While LinkSolar is a sponsor of my website, I make no 'affiliate income' on orders. So far, I've had a good experience with them. The production lead time was two weeks and after that 3-4 days delivery by air/FedEx from China to Florida, USA. Communication was through email; sometimes a bit confusing, but always with prompt replies. Send me a private message or email me on the website cargovanconversion.com/about for more specific questions. I'm not their spokesperson and these are just my opinions of this product. Van Williams

Cargo Van Conversion thanks for your input. More people seem to be much happier with the flexable panels, now that they have been improved. I will need at least 400wt to meet my needs. Thanks again.

Good luck with your installation and let me know how things work out. Have a great day! Van Williams

Hi Kat, Solar is basically reasonably simple. Where it gets complicated, is the details: wire types, sizes and lengths, solar controller and inverter capacities, good wire connections, programming of the controller, breaker boxes, combiner boxes, appropriate use of circuit breakers and fuses. It gets confusing after a while. While I'm not an expert at this, I will get into these details in upcoming videos, hopefully giving a sense of what one can expect, when you decide to install solar. Have a great day! Van Williams

Thats the part Im not confident with yet lol I am also looking to put solar on my cottage room in my back yard. So Im trying to learn all I can, Ill get there :) thank you xxx

Hi again Kat, Good luck. I'll be posting more videos regarding my experiences with these solar panels and the installation. And while I'm not an expert at this, you may pick up a few pointers. Van Williams

Im sure I will :) I always learn something cool from your vids. Thank you!!

Late to respond, had some health issues, but now I'm back :) Oh ja, dat accent raak ik maar niet kwijt. Geboren in Holland, maar woon hier al een tijdje. Leuk van je te horen. Nico van Dijk aka Van Williams

Hi CauseAndEffect, If written extensively on that and I'm aware of a possible issue. I have done a lot of research (mostly the 'first generation' of these panels). While it is widely mentioned, there is only very limited actual data available. I have always assumed this would remain an issue with this type of panels. These older panels had multiple problems and at least some of them have been addressed with the current panels that I have. I have installed them (see my video, this Friday) on the corrugated roof of my Ford Transit and left these small areas open, which should help with heat dissipation. I'm not an expert, but some have also explained (for what it's worth) that the metal roof works like a heat sink. As 'stealth' is high on my priority list, for me the easiest way to compensate for a possible lower output, was to add to the total wattage of the panels. Raising them off the roof would nullify the stealth issue and rigid panels would be a much more sensible way to go. As for longevity, I would be satisfied when they serve me until the van is sold or (much) better panels become available. Time will tell. Thanks for commenting. Van Williams

Hi Jorge, For most of us, we can check and compare (flexible) solar panel features like voltage & amperage ratings, ETFE, backcontact cells and price, but for grade you're largely dependent on the supplier. Choosing SunPower cells is good, but it's not a guarantee that you get the highest grade. Many of the early and cheap panels had low grade cells. I waited many years for quality to improve and buying was still a gamble. Yet I have to say that my Link Solar panels have been performing as expected and now that it's a year later, I see absolutely no degradation of the panels or their performance. Very glad that I bought them. My main reason to use flexible panels was for stealthiness. Many install panels on racks for improved airflow underneath. I often read about a longstanding issue about diminished efficiency, because of heat issues. I can't really say, that I have noticed any difference. Voltage doesn't seem affected, amperage has been underused, so I don't want to give that a thumbs up yet. I feel, in my case, that it is not an issue. Having solar panels on a rack, makes them a lot easier to remove and put them on your house though. Wish you good luck! Van Williams

Hi sunbin64, I'll be posting the first of three videos about the installation this Friday. It's a lot of work getting the videos ready, so bare with me :) I will go into testing much deeper at a later time, but I already did some preliminary testing (no load/open circuit) and had good results. A couple of days ago, I tested the three panels on the roof of the Ford Transit; it was 10AM on a sunny morning in Florida (Nov 2017) and I measured 28V/8.5A (without MPPT). That would probably bring in more than 100A-120A on a daily basis. I built in an easy way to expand the number of panels, but with these numbers, I may not need to. In the upcoming weeks, I'll post a video, specifically about this subject, so watch out for it. Van Williams

Hi Jay, Actually, in some ways they may be better than rigid panels. I'm a warm weather guy, haven't seen snow or hail in 30 years, so that's less of any issue to me. There are lots of situations where I believe, that rigid panels are a much better choice. I always try to describe all the options, but in the end, I can only explain my experiences and help people make a better choice. Van Williams

Hi Antonia Ignacio, I suppose I could come, and probably should one time, but unlikely unfortunately. Thanks for your support. Van Williams

Hi barry8082, Not yes, not no :) The primary goal was an excellent flexible panel with an optimal size. With the roof of the Ford Transit as my canvas, I tried to add the maximum number of watts. The panels that I choose, were 59.5 inches long, just 0.5 inch shy of the width of the roof. In other words, I used every available square inch. Using regular 100W panels, would have left me with less than I have now and I still have space left for an additional panel, if I wanted to. Link Solar was one of two companies that could supply these panels, the other one Chinese as well. There were other factors that played a role in my decision. I have seen so many of these flexible panels fail and wanted to avoid the same destiny. They needed to be made with ETFE laminate (much sturdier), Backcontact solar cells (high efficiency) and high grade solar cells (expensive). In the end it is always a gamble and only time will tell whether I made the right decision. So far it has worked out well. They were installed in Nov.2017 and there is absolutely mo deterioration of the panels, efficiency is high and they are working as expected. Now the price. I paid approx. $1,500.00 for a set of three panels (405W) including an affordable controller, wires and a few other knick-knacks. Could have saved a few hundred, but would have been stuck with an awkward size and perhaps less watts. These are high quality and while I cannot tell you after only half a year of use, but it seems that they will likely last at least for the life of the vehicle. Van Williams

Hi Peter, I think you can take the train to China :) I know that I'm a bit spoiled here in the US, but I think Europe is catching on. Amazon is getting more prominent in more countries in Europe. Yeah and France ... it should change its tune too, but then again it wouldn't be France anymore :) Perhaps better leave it the way it is. Great place! Van Williams

Yes France is a great place...........for people that live elsewhere, apart from that it's not too bad, but the politicians haven't finished their destructive work yet, they want to milk as much as they can from retired people, and your not free anymore to do want you want with your money. No problem for me, as I'm broke anyway.

Sorry, but I'm going to give you a non-answer :) I'm located in Central Florida and we've had a fairly mild (say warm) winter and besides the fewer number of hours of sunshine, nothing really changed. In general, the voltage has been around the stated maximum every day. As I only periodically using the roof vent as part of the 12V system, most of the time the system is only topping of the batteries. The next thing, I'm working on is a fridge and that will give me a better insight in the amperage side of things. So far my impression of my solar panels is quite good; they seem much better than these 'first generation' flexible panels. I have no factual opportunity to directly compare them with rigid panels, but my perception tells me they do very well in the early morning and late afternoon. After about a year since the installation, they visually look still brand-new, without scratches, blemishes or discolorations. Hope that helps! Van WQilliams

Hi Karin, I specifically chose these panels because of their size; they are 135 watts each, 59.5" x 22" (1500mm x 560mm). With 59.5" in length, they fit between the gutters on the roof of my Ford Transit, with 0.5" to spare. That means a full use of the roof; on my LWB Transit with a rear mounted roof vent, three of these panels (405W) can be installed, that are virtually invisible from the ground. A fourth panel would fit at the very front of the vehicle roof, but because of how the Transit is built, that panel will be visible. Without the roof vent or on an extended model, a fifth panel would also fit (max. 675W). I'm not an expert at this, but my research also found many comments about the issue around heat dissipation. However, there is very limited actual data, showing that. I also found claims that the metal roof could work as a heat sink. And I am unsure if this also applies to the newer panels (ETFE laminates and high grade backcontact cells) that I am installing. As stealth is relatively important to me, my approach has always been that a possible output loss because of heat dissipation issues, is easily remedied by adding more solar to the setup. If stealth is only an added convenience, I would recommend to go with rigid panels, that have a long track record and are much cheaper. As you can see in the video that will be posted tomorrow, I use 3M VHB tape to attach the panels to the roof, but leave a few areas open, where depression are in the 'corrugated' roof. This will allow for some airflow, but I doubt that will make much of a difference. Any loss of output is likely to occur in summer when the temperatures are (extremely) high, much less in winter. Since a solar system should be sized on the period with the lowest output (winter), any loss of the extra output during summer, may be less important. These are just my views on the subject and time will tell how it works out. A couple of days ago, I did a preliminary test of the three panels on the roof of the van (open circuit/no load) at 10AM on a sunny Florida morning. I registered 28V/8.5A (without MPPT). That would likely give it over 100A-120A daily output, in winter. I'll post a video with more testing, when they become available. Simple question, not so simple answer.... :) Have a great day! Van Williams

Thx for your measurements of those panels. I'm looking at an Aliner Classic (no dormers) that is already prewired for solar. Since your panels are 2" shy of 2 feet wide I'll bet I could attach 2 (maybe 3) of them to the roof between the fan/vent at top & skylight at bottom. I've seen others attach 100watt glass/ metal frame, which seem heavy & bulky, but 2 flex panels would give me 260watts (& 3 is over 400w). Time to take out the tape measure. Oh, thanks for replying because I forgot to subscribe so I can see how your build & installations go. Travel safe.

Hi Karin, Tomorrow I'll post the first of three videos about the installation. About the prewiring. Don't know about your Aliner, but many prewired RV's have cables that are too thin. Use an on-line AWG/Voltage Drop calculator to check the wire gauge that's needed. I specifically wanted flexible panels for the type of roof I have and for stealthiness. If that's not a requirement, you may be better off with rigid panels. They have a proven track record and are much cheaper. Have a great day! Van Williams

Hi Kennedy, This link cargovanconversion.com/LS/GFL-135 goes to these specific panels. It has a 5-pack (675W total) for $1,750.00, so about $350.00 per 135W panel. My setup cost around $1,500.00 for three 135W panels plus controller, cb's, cables and alike. These are no bottom prices, but you get a high quality panel. I have them installed on my Ford Transit now for about 6 months and very satisfied. Van Williams

Hi Stephen, Thanks for watching. Too much to show and tell about the solar setup. As I've said before, solar is basically pretty simple, but as you get into the details, there's so much to think about. I will get more into it, in upcoming videos. Van Williams

Hi Antonia Ignacio, You can visit their website cargovanconversion.com/LS, but I did everything through email: info@link-solar.com and corresponded with the manager Shoven Dean. English is sometimes difficult, but he makes a good effort and always promptly returned my inquiries. While Link Solar is a sponsor of my website, I have nothing to do with their products or business. So be sure to ask lots of questions, and make sure that you know what you're doing. I've had a good experience, but it would be nice to hear from others too, about their experience. Van Williams

Hi g dawg, In many ways I agree with you, but please read some of my comments here or on the website cargovanconversion.com While I had a good experience (so far), there are a lot of drawbacks in buying more expensive items directly from China. The need for a specific size and quality made me take the risk. The price point is worth discussing. With regard to efficiency, they are equal or even better than rigid panels, yet rigid panels have a long track record and they can be bought for $0.50 per watt or less. If you have no specific need for flexible panels, that is the way to go in my opinion. I wanted to go with flexible, but the 'first generation' of these panels had a lot of issues and they were promoted with ridiculous claims. I've heard of many failing based on delamination issues of the PET laminated and the use of substandard solar cells. Those two issues may have been addressed with these panels that are made with ETFE laminate and high grade backcontact solar cells. Be aware that flexible solar cells currently in the $150-$180 range, may not have backcontact cells, may be lower grade and likely use PET laminate instead of the more expensive ETFE. As I said, if you have no need for flexible panels, you're better off with rigid panels, in many ways. If flexible is what you want, do a lot of research and if these prices are too high, just wait a while, and they will come down! Van Williams

i appreciate the reply, i was refering to newer flexible panels on amazon but i can see your point on needing a specific size.

Hi g dawg, Their are currently only a few panels available with ETFE and the grade of the solar cells is very difficult to establish for most of us. It remains confusing and I tried to give some insight through my own experience. Van Williams

Hi Gilberto, Yes, haven't seen any degradation yet, both physically as in output. In a couple of months (spring/summer), I will do an update video with some testing results. Van Williams

Hi Jennifer, Thanks for taking the time to comment. I post a new video every Friday and this week, it's the first of three about the installation. It explicitly show in great detail how I fastened them to the roof of my Ford Transit. I used 3M VHB 5952 tape and that works great. No holes. I've taken out the van on a couple of rides and the panels are still on it :) So it seems to work. Hope you'll like the video. Next week I'll do the cabling and finally the controller, breakers, etc. Van Williams

Cargo Van Conversion Great.. thanks!! I am a subscriber now :)

Thanks for subscribing! That helps a lot. Have a great day! Van Williams

Hi Mark, Thanks for watching and the nice remarks! That's appreciated. For a start, there is very little practical, real-life information available on these newer flexible panels and you'll have to follow me the next months and years to find out how well the work or not. I'll find out at the same time :) It is likely that I can keep these panels within these 'rain gutters' on the Transit. I'm not absolutely sure, but I understand your concern. You should know that these backcontact cells are some of the latest cells made by Sunpower and have a ~20% efficiency. 'Backcontact' means that all the 'silver contact lines' are placed on the back of the cell, creating more exposed surface on the front of the cell. While all this theoretical data is nice to know, I put more emphasis on real life. Just yesterday, I placed these panels, midday with lots of sun on a flat surface (without load) and they produced ~27.7V @ ~5.05A at a stated 24.9V @ 5.7A. The higher voltage is nice as a MPPT controller can boost this amperage substantially, especially in winter when it's cooler and more needed. But interestingly, while measuring with both hands, I had only a foot left to hover over the panel and see what the effects would be on the amperage. The amperage only fell from about 0.35A from ~5.05A to ~4.65A, which was a pleasant surprise. This was only a quick check/test of these panels, just to make sure that they worked; I will do much more testing in upcoming videos and on the website. We'll have to see how things work out. One more thing, I think that the curvature of the roof is a positive fact as the roof is exposed to more (and longer) sunlight. However, I doubt whether that will make much difference in real life; parking and placing the vehicle in a better position in relationship to a southern exposure, is more important as is avoiding shadows on the roof. Van Williams

By my calculation, that is an 8% reduction in amps (or power - if the voltage remained the same). I've got to say, I am rooting for this to work. I love the minimal profile. BTW I did see another video where the guy used tape to mount them to the roof. After several months of use, he found a little water leakage in the corners of the tape where the (horizontal/vertical) tape overlapped, and created a tiny pin hole. Looking forward to more of your videos!

Hi Mark, Have seen the same video; he used (wide) Eternabond tape on top of the panel and the roof to hold the panel down. That just wasn't a good solution; he would have been better off securing it differently to the roof and by using a product like Dicor to hold the water at bay. This a 'first generation' flexible panel and he may have done that, because some of these panels tended to delaminate. I will use 3M VHB tape between the panel and the roof; completely invisible after installation. Van Williams

Yes, I think that was the same video. My issue with Dicor is, perhaps, a minor one: Wind Resistance. How will you attach the panel to the roof over the rain channels? Will you fill the channels in? Or will you leave them open and let wind and rain flow freely? If the latter, won't the vibrations from the wind cause earlier failure of the panel? (The suspense is killing me! ;-) ) Going back to an earlier subject: It might be interesting to do a quick and simple experiment to see how shadows affect your panels. You might take amperage readings with the panel half covered, 1/4 covered, 1/8 covered. I suspect that the power reduction is non-linear. Another experiment might be done to determine how much power loss occurs at different curvatures greater and less than the one on your roof. Warm Regards, Mark

Hey Mark, I will center the panels on the roof and keep them within the 'rain channels'. I have a few issues that I want to solve. These flexible panels (but rigid panels too) may have some heat dissipation issues; using the VHB tape will raise the panels slightly off the roof. Leaving some spaces between pieces of tape may allow for some (minimal) airflow. Keep in mind that I will try to use a continuous strip of VHB on the front facing end of the panels. There are a few additional corrugations on the roof which I might leave open or fill with multiple layers or VHB. Probably will also use many individual pieces of VHB under the panel, to avoid 'flutter' while driving. I plan to do more extensive testing of the panels before and after they are installed on the roof. The testing that I did, was only a quick test to verify that the panels survived the shipping. The relatively small reduction in power got me interested in doing some more testing about how shadow influences these solar panels. Probably will cover 1/4, 1/2, etc. of the panel, but am more interested in 'natural shadowing'; will use some branches with leaves for that. In real life panels are not often blocked solidly, but diffusely by forest trees. Curvature is a more thorny issue. Don't want to bend them too far or too often; that has been one of the cause for failure of the earlier panels and how they were promoted. The curvature is more about the exposure to the sun. That's a major variable also dependent on location and weather; difficult to measure accurately. We'll see how it all works out. Van Williams

Hi radgiegadgie, I still stand behind it. I saw so many issues with the 'first generation' of flexible solar panels, that That I waited until I found these. I thinks that the main qualities are high grade solar cells, ETFE laminates and Backcontact cells. I've had them installed on my van's roof for about a year now in Central Florida, and they still look brand new and perform as expected. The only issue was cost, but with anything much cheaper, you'll know what you get. Good luck! Van Williams

Thanks for letting me know. Good luck! Van Williams

The specific size of these panels allow me to mount ~400 watts on the roof of my Ford Transit. And the're so thin, that they will mount just below the roof line. As you said, mostly out of view. Contacting 3M, they did not suggest using VHB for this purpose, yet at the same time, told me that so many RVers have good results with it. Couldn't be more duplicit. I hope that by leaving space open between pieces of tape, more air can flow underneath, cooling these panels down as they are prone to overheating. I'm still holding off on Lithium, for the time being, and will be able to test the controller on lead-acid. That gives me some time before I'll likely change the controller to a Victron and the batteries to Lithium. Van Williams

so far the Lifepo4 has been working well - ran down to 12v one time to test Victron battery cut off worked well - I put a House Bathroom fan on air vent installed same area as U put vent - works very well - Quiet - also painted my Red van white - Huge difference - went from Oven to Nice - wish had done sooner - - Van skin temp white 105 - red 134 - night and day difference for Solar the VHB tape works well - its the way to go - have not read or seen any fail on solar install and most were on regular solar panel - I was considering flexible was thinking of putting foam mat under panel mostly to reduce heat gain - but 1/8 thick layer of Coroplast is a better choice - has channels that run length wise and would help in cooling - very low weight - get at sign supply - but since you have dark color van doubt you need any thing in between - I decided to use regular solar panel - its arriving tomorrow - grape solar 180 watt from Home depot - trying to find good controller - have read Epsolar controller is slow to adjust mppt - do a controller review- Im building roof rack right now - made a slider door lock with rivet nuts into door panel so can secure with door open - rivet nut pulled out of thin door metal Super easy so it was a giant fail - going to add metal plate to door with VHB and rivets - hope its strong enough - van metal is so thin - starting van build YT channel soon and show some new stuff I made - U will like - Jay

Hi Jay, Good to hear that the Lithium is working well; do you ever run into problems when running it below ~25%? Wow! Repainting from Red to White; I was just contemplating to get a Red or bright Yellow van next time. Being very cynical, perhaps too much :), isn't the difference between 105F and 134F like between hot and hotter? And does it actually make much difference in the interior? With good insulation/ventilation it should be minimal, with minimal insulation, it will be hot either way? I also decided to go with VHB from all the positive feedback from RVers who've used it before. The overheating issue of these flexible panels is still unclear to me; the most accurate info I have found showed a ~10% reduction; that may be higher or lower, but besides elevating the panels very slightly with the VHB tape, I assume the power loss and add more panels as needed. The assumed power loss happens during high temperatures, but in general, the bottleneck of the RV solar system lies in winter when temps are way more moderate. It may be a non-issue. I'll do a review of the EPSolar controller soon, but may switch to a Victron 50/100 controller when the Lithium batteries arrive. Originally I hoped to get a Victron EasySolar which combines a MPPT Controller, an inverter/charger and AC distribution in one. Would be a compact RV solution if they also produced as a 110V system. I always have to laugh when I see Sprinter owners sitting on their roof; try that on a Transit :) But we may get a better fuel efficiency. Let me know about your RU-vid channel and I'll be the first subscriber.... Van Williams

Hey Van - painting van made Night and Day difference - knew it would but the difference is WAY More than expected - the hottest its been Inside van since painting is 94f - Red van was 112 to 120 inside All the time and really did not cool off at night because of insulation - red van skin would be be 134 to 143 all day - heat soaking - now skin is 107 at most - and cools off quickly at night - I painted van a Very lite Purple - LOL all solar looses about 10% when it gets hot - VHB is way to go especially with flexible - the only concern I would have is panel Fluter - might make noise - there is Lots of misinformation out there on lifepo4 that I think has been put out by lead battery manufactures is my guess - they have most to loose - I have cutoff set at 12v and tested it to see if it worked - so far 100ah has been enough power to last me all day + - when low volts are reached lower than 3V - volt level drops off cliff - not much power there - but till limit is hit power is very steady- nothing getting dim or operating weird - I mounted Lifepo4 next to stock battery under seat- had to cut battery box some - just fits Do a review on Victron gear too - I tried to buy Victron Lifepo4 setup but they were sold out the 2 times I tried - Talk more soon- Jay

Hi Jay, I will revisit the whole vehicle color thing, just don't ever want to go back to white. Perhaps silver or yellow, but not this workvan color. But since I am a warm weather traveler, these differences would make life easier. Suppose you're correct that all solar looses 10% or so; rigid panels however have a bit more air flowing underneath. It's all relative anyway. I haven't thought about the possibility of flutter. Was planning to use a lot of tape on the front side (direction of the traffic), but less elsewhere. I will use much more now. Lithium is still not well supported; most information comes from users. Not many manufacturers either and prices haven't gone down in 5 years. No industry wide standards about charge settings. It's just a jungle out there! Victron makes quality gear, they just don't seem to care about the North American market. Some of these firms should start making integrated systems; that would make installions by RVers much easier and a lot safer. It's just a lot of work getting all the individual parts and putting it together and that's, if you know what you're doing. Van Williams

Tja, Hollanders weet je overal te herkennen. Ze zitten overal ter wereld :) Nico van Dijk aka Van Williams

Hi Richard, Thank you. Yes, I've installed my flexible solar panels and I'm working on the first of several videos. I'll likely have the first installment available on the next weekly RU-vid posting, which is on Friday. Hope, you'll be able to wait that long :) Van Williams

Thanks! I was just worring that I might have lost something. I entend to put some on my Fanta Fe, on the rails, so I am loking forward to see how you've done it and the result (output) of yoour setup. Kep up the good work and take care!

Hi Richard, Thanks for the encouragement! If you'll put the panels on rails, elevated above the roof, you may be better off to use rigid solar panels instead of the Flexible panels, that I'm using. They have a proven track record and are much cheaper, than the high-end flexible solar panels, which I'm using. Other than that, I've filmed many details of the installation and am sure you will be able to pick up a couple of ideas. PS Output seems to be better than anticipated. Have a great day! Van Williams

Thanks! I am thinkink using flexible tho fallow the curve of the rail and also to have less impact from the wind... I have time to think about it since I live in Québec and I wont work on it till spring.

Hey Richard, Those are valid reasons. Stealth was a major reason for me; the thickness of these panels is minimal, even after use of the VHB tape to attach them to the roof. Location may be another issue, with solar. Up in Quebec(I love the place: merveillieuse!), there is less sun. But my preliminary tests are better than expected. I have 405W with three panels flat on the roof and just half an hour ago (10AM in Florida with lots of sun, but no load), I had 27.3V & 8.36A and would project that 120Amps for the day could be a possibility. Van Williams

Hi Kim, I don't know whether that was a general question or specific for me. In my case, my setup is completely electrical, that means no propane. That causes more dependency on the batteries, solar panels and inverter. That said, it starts by figuring out how much my load is, by adding up the amps that each appliance uses times the number of minutes/hours a day. Remember, while you have to be as precise as possible in calculating these numbers, the totals are still averages or approximations. when you know the total use per day, one can calculate the daily amps that one needs per day. These can be supplied in different ways. The basic plan is through solar panels. A 100W panel on average can generate a maximum of 5 to 6 amps per hour. With 3 hours of usable sunlight per day in winter and 5 in summer, a 100W panel can bring in approx 15-30 amps per day. When you anticipate to use 75 amps per day, there would be a need for 300W-500W of solar panels. These are approximations, because of the possible variations: personal requirements, are you a warm weather camper or do you like to ski in winter, Are you always boondocking or do you regularly visit a campground with utilities, The batteries are mainly to extend boondocking. The more battery power, the longer one can boondock. Another source of electricity , is the use of an alternator or generator. The calculations are often fairly simple, but they differ tremendously from person to person, because the circumstances and needs of every individual is so different. I think that with the 405W I will have, my basic needs are met; but just in case, if I find out that more power would improve my life, then my setup allows to reasonably easy, expand my setup with one or more 'mobile' panels that I store under my bed. Just a bit of cable and an extra circuit breaker is all I need to do that. In upcoming videos, I'll talk about what I considered, while designing my electrical system. Thanks for watching! Van Williams

I am leaning towards all electrical, when we travel I will have my 17 yr old daughter possibly my granddaughter and 2 dogs. Propane and butane make me nervous.

Hi Cecilia, Great to hear! And thanks for the feedback. Van Williams

The three 135W flexible panels, controller, breaker box, cables, connectors, etc. ~$1500-$1700. The same stuff adds up quickly and was a couple of hundred dollars, but the principal amount went to the three panels. These fit exactly to the width of the Ford Transit roof, which was the main reason to buy. These are high grade Sunpower backcontact solar cells in ETFE laminate. It was a bit of a gamble, but it seems to have been a good choice. Always choose the ETFE over PET laminate. The grade (quality) of the cells is difficult for us mortals to determine, but price is a good indication. I will regularly make updates about the panels, but so far have exceeded my expectations. Van Williams

I have Citroen Relay LWB I am converting, those panels seem to be correct size for my conversion, I will be getting them sorted in next couple months, as have to wait for winter in UK to finish as we have snow at present so won't be able to proceed till around 2nd week May, but hoping to have conversion completed by end June, have most of interior made, just not fitted anything yet, I have been making fitments for this build now for 4.5 months, almost everything completed except electrical system, including solar and batteries, My biggest problem was finding the flexible panels I wanted, as I have seen lot that have had really bad reports, on build quality and performance, I looked at the quality of the ones you used and what a difference in the design, much better design and nice looking panels, I am so great-full for you sharing, thanks for info

Hi Steven, I was born in Holland, so I know about your winters :) Would love to see some pics of your conversion, when it's ready. I classify these panels as first and second generation. The first came out a couple of years ago, with PET laminates and low grade solar cells, but surprisingly inexpensive. They were overhyped with RU-vid videos, where people danced on them and others that bend them in every direction until they broke. These were well-known to delaminate and break down; they also were low efficiency. The current 'second generation' panels often (not always) have ETFE laminates, backcontact cells and buyers are warned not to bend them excessively (and only outward). One unresolved issue is the quality of the solar cells. Each type of solar cell comes in many grades, that will determine it's efficiency and life expectancy. You have to be an insider to know which grade you get. Paying a low price for a panel, almost guarantees a lower grade cell, a high price doesn't guarantee anything at all :) Van Williams

I have used flexible solar before, very low output on a cabin cruiser, it was so bad took 3 weeks to charge batteries, then if you even left 1 5 watt light on the batteries would be at around 8.6 volts after 3 weeks, I had a Honda generator that I put on the bow of the boat it was quiet and charged the batteries quite quickly, I had to run it constantly to keep the electrics working until I fitted a 4 k Generator below the decks, this was self starting when batteries got down to 10 volts, it shut off when they reached 14 .62 volts, this was expensive purchase and took me a week of fabricating to get exhausts and inlets installed fireproofed and hidden, fuel was not too bad as got marine discount for the fuel at lake pumps. I do not want a generator on my Van conversion, as now fuel is so expensive in the UK I also want the conversion to be as green as possible, I am undecided on weather to fit the panels directly to the roof or to fit them to alloy plate then to the roof, as this would eliminate any severe bends and would make the panels easily removable, was thinking of maybe a system where I could maybe put fixed bolts on the roof and bolt the panels on with star knobs, this might also help keeping the panels cool, I will be taking pictures of the complete build process, and will share them when I complete the build, Thanks for advice, keep building, oh also like to say your posts are not only informative but so clear and easy to understand, nice job Thanks again Steve

Hi Steven, Something must have been wrong with either the panels or the batteries on your boat. The flexible panels were probably one of the first available and may had issues with the quality of the cells, but another likely cause may have been the batteries. Letting your lead-acid's get below 12.2V may damage them too. It is feasible nowadays to go all-electric in a conversion van, however it certainly depends on how and where you use the van. Your situation in Britain makes it more complicated and propane might make your life a lot easier. The 3M VHB tape I used to secure the panels seem to work very well and it doesn't leave any holes in the roof. The overheating issue of these panels may be overrated; I still don't have much proof of it and at your location, it may be even less of an issue, if at all. Bending on a transit roof is no problem. just make sure that during the installation, you have a second pair of hands and you avoid bending the panels inwards. Wish you the best and, oh... I included a bit of Florida sunshine, you need it :) Van Williams

Hi Jibriil Ahmed, I appreciate your feedback, but remember, with age come gray hairs (or none at all) and wisdom :) The main purpose of this video was to show my experience with ordering these solar panels directly from China and the possible risks involved. Pricing was not an issue, although questions were asked about that in the comments and answered. The video platform is often not suited for a comprehensive description of a subject, but you can always refer to my website for more details cargovanconversion.com or in the description of the video or simply asking in your comment. Pricing is very time-restricted, but as of Nov. 2017 this company offered these specific panels at $3.00/watt. Merry Christmas! Van Williams

The curvature is only slight but theoretically should expose the panel to more sunlight. Practically, it probably doesn't make much difference; placement of the vehicle in relationship to the south is likely much more important, as is the possibility of shadow. These are high efficiency solar cells with a stated 20% efficiency; what that means in real life is unclear to me, but as a comparison tool, it is similar to most current rigid panels. The cells are Backcontact Sunpower cells, which are the latest and have more exposed area for solar collection. They are also of a higher grade than most older (flexible) panels. While the ETFE top laminate (similar to glass on rigid panels) is sturdier than the PET used on older flexible panels, it also performs better. The very first measurements (not under load) I had, show 27.7V @ 5.05A (flat position, midday, sunny) in comparison to the stated 24.9V @ 5.7A. The higher voltage is advantageous as the MPPT controller will boost the amperage more, especially in winter, when it is cooler (and more needed). Biggest question I have right now, how these panels perform long term. The 'first generation' of flexible solar panels had issues with delamination and bad cells; I hope that is fixed. Time will tell, but I'll give periodical update here on RU-vid and on my website cargovanconversion.com Van Williams

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Hi Michael, Locally I receive most of my stuff through UPS and the USPS, but FedEx offers equally good service here. In case of these panels, I had no choice and with regard to the importation, they did an excellent job. Perhaps, it's also a matter of being lucky. Van Williams

Hi Mevi, All concerns I had to deal with. The main reason for my interest in flexible solar panels where reduced weight and their stealthiness. And I have been quite interested since their introduction, a couple of years ago. But what I call 'the first generation of panels', where over-hyped, especially by several RV enthusiasts. The unrelented bending and walking on these panels seemed to make them undestructible. The opposite was true; as we know today, they came with at least two major issues. They used a top laminate (PET) that started to delaminate in a short time in some of these panels allowing for water penetration and other deterioration of these panels (this should have been fixed with the ETFE materials in my panels). The other issue was that these cheaper panels, generally used a low grade solar cell with a short lifespan. cargovanconversion.com/LS/solar-cells As was explained to me, the solar cells in my panels are a higher grade of the latest solar cells, produced by Sunpower with an efficiency of ~20%, equal or higher than many rigid panels. The price/performance ratio is fair at best. Now in 2017, I see rigid panels available at approx. 0.50-0.75 per watt, the cheap flexible panels (that I do not recommend) at about 1.25-1.50 per watt and these newer flexible panels at 2.50-3.00 per watt. Quite a bit more expensive, but with substantially less weight and almost invisible on your roof. On the other hand, with no proven track record. The stealthiness won me over, but reservations about the long term remain. I had the same approach with these panels (and the Lithium batteries) as you: wait as long as you can, the see improvements in the product and more knowledge about the subject. As your needs become more urgent, you can add at a later stage. That's what I did with the panels and what I do with the batteries (I plan to wait another year or so with Lithium and start with two small 6V golf batteries). I think that the comparison between Linksolar or similar companies with the cheaper flexible panels on Amazon is like apples and oranges: I would certainly choose rigid panels over cheap flexible panels if price was the only consideration. As I said before, the delamination issues and the low grade solar cells are determining factors. I have had a good experience with Linksolar so far, but there are more payment guarantees if you can order through companies like Amazon, Alibaba and Aliexpress. That would likely add to the cost as well. Mine were sent with tracking, but without insurance; I'm sure, they would be able to add insurance on request. Just email them and they will get back to you (contact Shoven Dean, he's the manager). You could save on export taxes, like I did, but that's not guaranteed and depends on what country you live. You can contact me if you have more specific questions by private message, or email on the website cargovanconversion.com/about Van Williams

Thanks for the reply, Van. Very much appreciated. Import duty at the UK customs is a lottery. I had most things make it through without charge, other things I had to pay duty - I remember abandoning one small parcel that for whatever reason, made it too expensive to bother paying for. :D However excellent Linksolar are, their (justified?) pricing puts them outside my current budget. Unfortunately, I don't have the luxury of time, as the deadline I have been set means I have a couple of months at best before I move in full-time vanlife. With all my costs coming in at once, I may be forced to future-proof the charge controller, but go rigid panel and upgrade once price:watt improves. I can't 100% trust average user reviews, as our use of panels is so very different to a home user.

Mevi Hi Mevi, how did you get on with your system, what did you settle with? I’m just about to embark with van solar, I’m going with 2 6V batteries giving me 460ah, I’m also using a split charge relay.

@@cargovanconversion stealthiness - such a good word - and thanks for the vid.. I'm a weight freak, as much of my terrain will be uneven and obvs the roof is THE worst place to load up with kilos. However, as I'll be 1000's of miles away from my base - reliability is also a big factor.. I too am planning to leave purchase as long as I can but, there comes a point where my design needs to settled - WHAT I'D LOVE - is an upto date appraisal for the surface and output of your panels please Van.. I hear, only hearsay that deterioration is/can be rapid

Hi Graham, First, I'm not an expert, just have practical experience with solar. I started with rigid panels in the early 80's and these panels are still working (at reduced efficiency). I was exited when the first flexible solar panels came around, but didn't have my van yet and wanted to wait for real live data about these new panels. Lot of hype about flexibility, walking on them, scratching, etc. Heard about heat issues when placing them directly on the metal roof. Regularly mentioned issues with flexible solar panels: - Heat issues: They are continued to be raised, but over the years, I only found one documented experience, that mentioned a 10% reduction in efficiency when the panels are attached directly to the metal roof of the van. That is already many years ago and must have involved this first generation of solar panels. My experience in the last year has shown no measurable reduction of the stated panel properties. And even if that is the case, it's easily resolved by adding more panels. - Flexibility: They use to come with a stated 30% bendable properties; that is usually reduced nowadays to 15%-20%. You have to understand that these panels are flexible, but only for a curved installation; after that they should be left alone. Certainly never bend them inward, as the solar cells connection like will break. In my opinion, despite their weight advantage, they are not really suitable as a mobile panel. Over time they will bend too much or too often. They are clearly more fragile than rigid panels. - Scratching: The first generation of flexible panels was very prone to scratching. The use of PET laminate was the main cause; they also seem to 'cup' quite a bit. The newer ETFE laminate has resolved that issue, I think. - Mounting with VHB tape: I have heard and seen, VHB taped flexible solar panels detach from the roof. Main issue is to have an extra clean roof during installation and use Propylene Alcohol before attaching the tape. Mine are installed one year now; have seen no issues with the tape at all. - Price: Good quality flexible solar panels ARE expensive. Only reason to get them is stealth and weight. If neither of those are important to you, get rigid panels. They have a proven track record and can be had for $0.50 per watt. Properties to look out for: - ETFE: The first generation of flexible panels used PET laminates to hold everything together. They are still being sold. Only get panels made with ETFE. - Backcontact solar cells: Make sure that the cells that are being used in the panels are Backcontact cells. These cells moved the 'silver contact lines' from the front to the back of the cell, thus improving sun exposure considerably. - Solar cells grade: The biggest issue with any panel you buy. There are many grades of cells that are being used. Unfortunately the ordinary man cannot distinguish the difference. You are entirely dependent on the manufacturer for that. You will pay much more for higher grades. My experiences in the last year: I'm located in Central Florida and in summer the sun can be harsh on the panels. I have seen no visible changes to the panels. They still look like they were installed yesterday. No deterioration. For most of this time, I've only had a roof vent installed on a test installation with two 6V golf cart batteries (will be replaced by Lithium). So output information is minimal. What I noticed, is that these panels already start producing when the sun is just above the horizon and till late in the day even though they are flat on the roof. They are affected by shade (additional mobile panels could reduce the issue) like are rigid panels. Switching between parallel and serial installation will reduce that further. They produce 26+V but so far the vent only used a minimal amount of that. Recently, in preparation for my trip to the RTR in Arizona in January, I have connected ceiling lights, a fridge, charging point and a water pump. So far no issues powering that. From the numbers that I've seen, the three 135W panels should be able to produce 200A a day if not substantially more (on a sunny day). In addition, I have a mobile flexible panel and a solar blanket for a total of 500+ watts. There should be no issues at all with regard to power. I may have some more info after my first one month trip with this setup. BTW the mobile panels are connected to an Anderson connector placed under the rear bumper that leads to a separate controller. I highly recommend you to contact Dean at info@link-solar.com for more technical details. His English isn't that smooth, but he will try to answer you're questions and otherwise refer to me and I'll get back to you. Hope this answers most of your questions. Please ask more if so necessary or after I've returned from my trip. Van Williams

Virtually no music in recent videos, for many reasons. Thanks for the feedback. Van Williams

Link-Solar is a sponsor of my website, but I have nothing to do with their company or pricing. That said, you shouldn't compare apples with oranges. Solar panels may look alike, but there are many differences. These 'second generation' flexible solar panels come with an ETFE laminate that has much less reflectivity and shouldn't have the delamination issues, that the older PET panels had. Then there are the solar cells; these use high-efficiency Sunpower backcontact cells. Backcontact cells are the latest innovation of solar cells with more exposure to the sun. Probably the biggest misconception is about the grades, solar cells are available in. Seldom you get the highest grade, as they are simply to expensive. My panels come with a higher grade solar cell, while many of the cheaper panels likely are not. You can read more about these grades here: cargovanconversion.com/LS/solar-cells It is difficult for the uninitiated, to compare the quality of different panels and sometimes you have to pay more, to get better. For me that's uncertain too. I've done some preliminary tests and right now I'm installing them on my van and many more tests will be done as I start using the solar power. I will be posting more about that soon and will continue to do that over the lifetime of these panels, as little information is available about these flexible solar panels. Where does that leave you? I had a specific need for flexible solar panels, but if you can do with regular rigid panels, I would suggest to get that way. They are much cheaper and have a track record. I you prefer flexible, do a lot of research, but avoid those 'first generation' panels and wait a little for prices to come down. Van Williams

Lost me on that price...I really wanted these panels as I think they are perfect for my curved rooftop but I'll just go with standard rigid for that price.

Hi VagabonDaze, I get it. Prices will come down I suppose. You can go with the cheaper flexible panels of around $150/100W, but if price is the main stumbling block, I would go with the rigid panels as well. They have a track record and you can buy them for as low as $0.50 per watt. Remember, the panels I use are 135 watts. I still remember when I paid $1000 per panel (rigid), so everything is relative :) Van Williams

Cargo Van Conversion yes, very true can you tell me what the cost of the entire is with charge controller and everything?

Hi VagabonDaze, I can't tell you to the exact dollar amount, but everything you've seen in the previous video and what I'm installing in this Friday's video, is approx. $1,500.00 incl. taxes and S&H. That includes the three 135 watt solar panels, MC4 connectors, MC4 branch connectors, VHB tape, cable gland, tools like crimpers, lugs, welding wire, breaker box, circuit breakers, Blue Sea bus bars, power post and fuse box, controller and remote meter. Remember, that no matter what panels you use, that quality wiring, breakers, bus bars, etc., the so-called accessories, also cost a handful. PS I want you to know that besides Link Solar being my sponsor, that I have nothing to do with what they are offering. I am currently trying for them the offer a custom 'Ford Transit' package, that would include most of these items, similar to what I have, for an attractive price. Don't know how that works out, but you can always contact me again. Van Williams

Hi dmajor77, I will have three panels of 135W each, with a total of 405 watts. They are 24.9V and 5.7A each. The higher panel voltage in combination with an MPPT controller, may give me a nice boost, especially in winter, when it's cooler. Have a great day! Van Williams

Hi Randy, The output of all solar panels is dependent on so many other factors, such as the quality, grade and efficiency of the solar cells, cables used, their exposure to the sun and many more. They are more likely to overheat in summer, which is less of an issue as a properly sized system will over-produce in summer anyway. I will raise the panels slightly to enhance airflow underneath. I anticipate that overheating may cut power by approx. 10%; that is also easily compensated by more panels. My three panels are 135W each for a total of 405W with an option to install more at a later date, if necessary. You're right, an MPPT controller for a system of roughly 200W or less is unnecessary. For me, with a system of upwards of 400 watts, it's a no-brainer. Although these specific solar panels are technically much better than than their 'first generation' cousins, they are still lacking a proven track record and as such their are many questions unanswered. Keep checking for updates. In the upcoming weeks, I'll post more videos, explaining my setup and showing some parts of my setup. Van Williams

You're right! The overheating is still an issue. I didn't choose a aluminum backplate, but that may also alleviate the problem. My research (on the older flexible panels) shows a power loss due to overheating closer to 10%, but there is not much factual data available and much may be due to other factors. Rigid panels are much better at it, but they undercut the stealthy properties, In the end, it is a personal choice. If weight and visibility are not an issue, I would always advise to use rigid panels. They have a proven track record, are cheap and are much sturdier. Have a great day! Van Williams

Hi Randy, Enough dispersed camping and Walmart doesn't mind either :) Stealth could play a role in urban camping, but it's unlikely that will happen with me. I just want a clean van, not all dressed up like an RV. It's also my daily vehicle. Van Williams

Hey Randy, I'm not a full-timer now, but have been previously and soon again, You've figured everything out; for me a similar thing, except the lot, but that will likely happen at a later stage. Wish you well! Van Williams