Not a single note wrong or displaced. Bach is a miracle. How he combines simple melodies in different voices to a celestial level has amazed me all my life.
Even if someone made a claim that a note is wrong, the fact that the name "Bach" is attached to this piece means people will defend it even if it is wrong
Yeah, and I have to play the solo on the recorder which doesn't go under middle C but if I transpose it an octave higher it ruins the tension building Bach meant.
But I mean, there really was only a few instruments, nowhere near the size of a true orchestra. You kind of had to use all of the instruments to their fullest ability.
@@windmillwilly He's referring to Bach's use of counterpoint throughout the entire concerto, as opposed to the actual instrumentation. You often find the same sort of instrumentation in classical concerti, but the orchestral parts are much more "subservient" to the soloist, which is what I think he means when he says that the orchestral parts here are more interesting compared to those of other concerti. That said, even in large orchestral scores with dozens of instruments, the voicing can usually be distilled into 4-6 parts, same as Bach's concerto. This "fortspinnung" style of composing eventually made somewhat of a comeback in the 20th century, and you can find similar use of intricate counterpoint in Hindemith's concerti.
@@pseunition6038 actually I find that too often this concerto is played with a too loud soloist all the time. A lot of what the soloist plays is accompaniment and the important voices are in the orchestra. The beauty of it is how they actually respond each other, soloist and orchestra.
A part of Bach never left heaven during his life. He must have struggled, and suffered, as all of us do. But remained connected to some kind of divinity. With a Divine talent.
Heaven on Earth - can't get this movement out of my mind! Bach, here on Earth, was so in touch with the same Spirit that is inside all of us if we only listen to Spirit instead of our egos. Thank you, GeruBach, for your gift here - can't wait to get home and play along with this on my keyboard!!!
I love how Bach is just blatantly showing off from 1:40 to 2:03 by refusing to cadence. He really fakes you out with the deceptive cadence at 1:57 but it is made special by the fact that not 10 seconds earlier, he already evaded another cadence in e minor. He does this same thing with the ritornello from his 3rd English suite which sets up several perfectly acceptable cadences to end the first ritornello but just keeps going. I think this is what sets Bach apart from other composers. His refusal to be "just good enough."
Look at that scale on B at 1:54 and the scales on D and E at 2:36 in the solo violin. At 1:54, I think Bach added the D# and F# to the scale from the chord in the measure in which the scale starts (a major seventh chord on the B), but he added the C# from the chord (an A major triad in 1st inversion) from the second half of beat the first beat of the next measure. He kept the D# and F# in the second measure, creating a non-diatonic mode on B. He did something similar at 2:36, except he based the D scale on a Neapolitan/Phrygian as suggested by the D and Bb in the strings and the F# in the scale played by the solo violin. This mode is the same as the one he used on B earlier. The proceeding non-diatonic scale on E is based on the notes of an A major triad. Many other classical composers have extended cadences, although perhaps not nearly as impressively as Bach does here, but I have never seen another instance of a classical composer incorporating non-diatonic modes into a piece so perfectly as Bach does in this concerto. A minor is like Bach's key of experimentation: in the WTC book 2, his A minor prelude pretty much uses serialism. Edit: It seems I missed how Bach used the same mode that used on B and D earlier (T-T-S-T-S-T-T in tones and semitones) again on E at 3:40, this time with raised notes corresponding to the notes raised in the diminished triad on G# and D major triad found at the first and second half of the the 1st beat of the measure with the scale. The fact that he used this same non-diatonic mode 3 times may suggest that Bach wrote the harmony in a way that allowed him to use this mode, rather than using this mode because he felt like writing a scale incorporating the altered notes of 2 different chords which he had already written for the purposes of harmonic function. However, the scale on E at around 2:36 which I mentioned earlier uses a different non-diatonic mode (S-T-T-T-T-S-T) and incorporates altered notes from only 1 chord, suggesting Bach may have just based this mode on the A major triad which he had written for harmonic functional purposes and written it as a sort of response to the scale a couple measures back, rather than aiming to write this mode and writing harmonies which allowed him to do so, as he may have done with the mode that was repeated thrice.
Ara Zararsyan well, I think that is a somewhat overcomplicated way of looking at it. Bach was a contrapuntal composer so a lot of these quick harmonic shifts are just a result of the independent melodic lines. At 1:54, that is just an E minor scale with raised scale degrees 6 and 7 to create a stronger pull upwards. It is starting on B as that is the dominant of E minor which he has been avoiding like I mentioned in my original post. The scales at 2:36 are just harmonic minor scales in their respective harmonies (g minor and then A or iv - V in the key of D minor). Baroque music is known for a very fast harmonic motion because of its contrapuntal nature. It is important to remember that when dealing with minor scales, scale degrees 6 and 7 are variable. He can raise and lower them to create stronger pulls in different directions. I don't think he is creating new mode or anything like that, just moving very fast haha.
You're probably right, but then again, you never know! Bach could've actually been trying to incorporate non-diatonic modes in his music. Regardless, even if he was just moving fast as you say, if you look at the scales as scales going from B to B or D to D etc., the fact that they are not diatonic remains, whether Bach aimed to accomplish that or did so inadvertently. Most of all, it's very interesting to look for such "overcomplicated" patterns in Bach's music and in that of composers other than Bach since it can inspire new compositional ideas employing these patterns that may or may not have been inadvertently written. But, as I said, you're probably right, lol.
Ara, & Daniel, You seem to both be right. I'm pretty sure Bach is following the convention ( as per Fux, etc.) of using a more modal approach (as in not raising notes, for repeated themes, played on the 4th, etc,) when he's not within a few beats or bars of a cadence, but when he actually does the cadence, or is very near it, he raises the 7th, or 3rd, etc., to make it a proper cadence. Am I right? lol
I have a cheap Infinity Digital copy of this with a violin player who is not the most technically proficient... but right around here 13:44 that violin player has what I think can only be an epiphany of sorts, where he's working like mad to play this but doing it with such passion that he transcends the limits of his technique and creates magic--it sounds like birds in flight, crying out as they soar across the blue vault of the sky. As such, it's my favorite recording of the third movement.
There are several "violin players" in this concerto. There are the ripieno 1st violin players, the ripieno 2nd violin players, and the solo violin player. I assume you mean the soloist. In the passage you refer to, the soloist must use a violin technique called _bariolage._ Bariolage is the repeated alternation of notes played on two or more strings, where one of the notes is usually an open string. This string crossing is often rapid, and is best executed with a sinuous movement of the bow arm. Sometimes the same pitch as an open string will be fingered on an adjacent string, so that the alternation is between the same note on two strings, one stopped, one open, giving a rhythmic pulsating effect. The soloist is NOT "working like mad" in this passage. He's merely rocking the bow with his right hand across two or more strings while holding down one or more notes with his left hand. It's his bowing arm that's doing most of the work. It's really very easy to execute. No madness is involved.
This is one of the best recordings of this work. The sound is very clear and transparent. I can hear the violas when they enter the fugato in the ritornelli of the gigue!
I can't decide whether I like this more in A minor or G minor as the BWV 1058 transcription!! I was imagining what the mean, harpsichord bass line in the third movement would sound like here, though. :)
The violin in the allegro assai is like it's being played by Merlin, it's like listening to a spell and all it's ingredients come together. Magic is misunderstood technology and also true musical expression.
Could it be because the Violino I isn’t following the Solo Violin in an exact way? Played in unison, it would follow it by continuing the scale, but instead it shifts right where the question mark is. This is really just a guess, but I’m currently reading Malcom Boyd’s book on Bach and he mentioned similar things.
It might be one example where the original manuscript was too difficult to read - the ledger lines in the original might have appeared absent due to being written so close, but the copyist wasn't sure, so they put a question mark (in a physical copy, there might be a forenote or a footnote which explains the question mark better).
+Marc Claverol Thanks for the compliment! The violin and the piano/harpsichord are my favorite instruments. It's all the same to me, I like both transcriptions!
Marc Claverol "Merely a transcription" is not completely true as in 1058 there is added an elaborate left hand that doesn' t necessarily double the BC but actually answer contrapunctually the right hand (basically the adapted violin solo with only the arpeggios with large leaps altered); also, I think in the third movement some flats in the ripieni were changed to naturals (at the modulations leading to the final arpeggios which precede the closing ritornello, aka around 13:40)
@rubach @UCNAckPiDYxRWengUlRujs6Q You should use the Barenreiter Piano Reduction Scores for the Scrolling project of every bach piece. The reason I'd rather use Piano Reduction Scores is because they're so much more compact.
Best of Bach, whatever which movement of it.I think Bach composed this piece in other composer style.in the Second movement, Bach let the violin play the very high(at least for that time or in my opinion) note of G at the middle. And the third movement, the speed and the difficulty for the solo violin (was )pretty fast and high. However, actually in his 4th Brandenburg concerto his actually use those skills.Ha ! Time to start a deep study of Bach
Can someone tell me which scale is being used when Bach uses a Bflat, I know that an F# and G# are a melodic minor and a G# is the harmonic minor but which scale could he be using with the Bb? Relative to the key of A minor
At around the 1 minute mark the violin concertato plays a Bb and im just curious what scale Bach culd be utilizing since I've recently gotten interested in improvising in a Bach like style and the more scales the merrier!
+Andres Ramirez Well if you look at measures 35 and 59 where what you are talking about occurs, the harmony is currently a "F major chord". What Bach is doing is borrowing the Bb from the F major scale (despite the fact hes currently in A minor) and using it as a "Chromatic Neighbor tone". As for improvising, studying harmony up to and including "secondary dominants" and "borrowed chords" would give you a better understanding of Bach (apologies of course if you already have!). Bach is hard to improvise faithfully without a good understanding of harmony and counterpoint. He isn't called the "immortal god of harmony" for nothing after all! Hope that helps more than it confuses : )
+Yarn Fox thank you so much! I hadn't practiced what you said but I'm excited to! Much appreciated and I understand what your saying about the F major chord! Thanks so much!
The key of the piece is A minor, no sharps or flats in the key signature with the option of sharpening the 6th. and 7th. degrees. Any key has 5 "Relatives", i.e. the keys with one note sharpened, or flattened, with their relative minor or major. The "Dominant" of A-minor is E-minor (1 sharp), the "Subdominant" is D-minor (1 flat) Relative major of A-minor is C-major, of E-minor is G major, of D-minor is F-major. Any piece of any length will "modulate", coming to a "cadence" (ending) in one of the related keys. ALL music ends finally in the "tonic" (home key). The family of 6 related keys have different moods: Tonic = HOME. Dominant = a feeling of ARRIVAL or ACHIEVEMENT. Subdominant = SPIRITUAL (e.g. "amen") or SERIOUS, Relative minor of the dominant HOME BUT SAD, Relative of the dominant OUT FOR THE DAY? MAYBE A SHORT SHOWER! Relative minor of the subdominant (seldom used) CHURCH: a FUNERAL!. Understanding this is essential for an informed performance. This movement is unusual: happy and cheerful, indeed sometimes ecstatic, despite being in a minor key. That's BACH for you!.Professor Keith Ramsell (retired). Many years ago I gave a South Bank recital. The "Strad." magazine wrote: ...the Elgar was a total success..." thanks to my 4 years at Manchester University after leaving College where, unfortunately, this approach was not understood.
I don't know for sure, but it might have to do with how the first violin switches from playing in unison with the soloist to playing in unison with the seconds instead of just scaling straight up in unison with the soloist like at 1:55. Then the first violins play in unison with the soloist again at the a in the next measure. It doesn't really make sense for the soloist to have 4 solo notes in the middle of a tutti section so that question mark probably shows someone doubting whether Bach actually wrote those four notes for the first violins.
An (for Bach) very unusual error. Bach was most reluctant to spoil his manuscript by erasures or corrections. I've studied the m/s of the 6 solo sonatas and don't recall noticing a single one. At one place, missing out a leger line, he squeezed a treble clef in on the MIDDLE line! How clever was THAT?
Can somebody tell/explain me please why it sounds almost identical to BWV 1058? (I'm not very good at music lecture). Or It´s just my mind playing with me? Thanks
Bach ha trascritto alcuni dei suoi concerti solistici o di Vivaldi per clavicembalo, bwv 1058 infatti è semplicemente una versione per clavicembalo trasportata in sol minore
@alex m.e.s. Johann Sebastian Bach era un estimatore di tutti i compositori dell'epoca, soprattutto di italiani e francesi, all'epoca era di prassi fare anche trascrizioni per altri strumenti della musica degli altri compositori, d'altronde all'epoca non c'era copyright. Detto questo quello che rendeva Bach unico era il fatto di unire tutti gli stili musicali in maniera originale ed omogenea, inoltre il suo contrappunto era il più complesso dell'epoca barocca e molto probabilmente di sempre.
@alex m.e.s. Certo sono opinioni così come è la sua, sulle sue esternazioni e farneticazioni non credo ci sia nulla da commentare, d'altronde la Musica non è per tutti, a maggior ragione se non si conosce la Storia di essa.
CORRECT: It's written in the Baroque "Italian instrumental style" i.e. snatches of melody (mostly adjacent notes) with sometimes "antiphony" (alternate switching of a motif between registers) and sometimes "bariolage" (giving the impression of chords by rapidly crossing strings one note at a time, of which the 3rd. movement contains some SUPERB examples!) Manchester University 1954 "If it can't be SUNG it's not music!" Instruments, particularly string instruments, can switch rapidly between "voices", a sort of strobophobic effect, but still BASICALLY vocal.
Initial tutti of third movement. The first violins sound too much when they abandon the theme. They should play much softer so the seconds, basses and violas play the theme. I still have to find a recording that convinces me in this initial fugato. Always sounds to me as three voices accompanying a first violins section.
ABSOLUTELY CORRECT! They don't LISTEN each other. National Youth Orchestra 1946, Dvorak's 4th. (old numbering) Symphony, Reginald Jacques conducting "Hands up if you have the tune!". Every hand went up (Dvorak!). "I've got news for you: the FLUTE has the tune, and if YOU can't hear the flute, YOU are playing too loud!!!!
steve istheman It was a historical choice. Rhythmic alterations are one of the many ways baroque musicians can often be granted artistic flexibility with what is written - much more than with romantic music, for example. Google "overdotting" for a more complete explanation of the practice.
