What if the cat gets stolen? Do you believe that your body, life, family and the ground you get to walk on are all a gift or something else? If you think it is something else please explain.....
Hey speak for yourself. Let me make this crystal clear, my cat does NOT own me.....now if you will excuse me she is meowing and it's time for me to clean her litter box.
@@eclipsesolar8345 I could certainly be a sociopath, but you'd just be taking my word. The caller on the other hand has demonstrated that he is most definitely a sociopath.
@@colindickson8034 SLAVERY STILL EXISTS TODAY IN SOME COUNTRIES ! AND WHEN IT WAS IN THE USA IT WAS FINE !! UNTIL IT WAS OUTLAWED ! HOMOSEXUALITY WAS A CAPITAL OFFENCE ! NOW ITS NOT!AT LEAST IN THE USA
Is it not ignorant to judge all religious people like that? Do you believe that your body,life, family, and the ground you get to walk on are all a gift or something else? Please explain. ..
@@eclipsesolar8345 So, the old conflating what certain atheists have done in the name of political power with claiming it was done because of atheism.. I’m willing to bet you would include Hitler in your list of atheists as well, just to complete the errors.
@@eclipsesolar8345 atheism is not a religion that's the difference....if one atheist is bad that means hes bad not all atheist....cause every one is different form another....its not a RELIGION
Mental illnesses are a business too. As is the big bad bogey virus. Pfizer has just told the European court that when the vax was introduced, they didn't know if it would stop transmission. THE MANDATES WERE A FRAUD! & SARS-CoV was patented on 10/4/2003. SARS-CoV is therefore a product & it takes seconds to find the patent. After all, that's what patents are there for, TO BE READ!
We ve had a moral code handed to us from the judeo Christian heritage that we have used substantially to get us to this stage of development. On the other hand, the lack of that moral order opens up any possibility,. Read "Lord of the Flies".
If the bible is the word of god, and the new testament corrects the old testament, does that not mean that god is indeed fallible? Otherwise, he would've gotten the book right the first time!🤷♂️
God didn't get it wrong in the Old Testament . . . situations changed so morality changed to match the new situation . . . So, in other words, Christianity clearly supports the concept of situation ethics.
there's PLENTY of tap dances to get around that: "God had to change the message with the times... people weren't ready for the TRUE word back then..." and other BS
@@beirirangu so if god had to change his message with the times, that would imply that god's actions are dictated by man, not the other way around!🤣🤦♂️
@@beirirangu and god, being god, should've known they weren't ready, so why present it to them in the first place? And if god really is an all-powerful being who needed to deliver a message to his people, he could've rounded everybody up in one place, like a school assembly, and said "Do this. Don't do that. Stop askin me for shit!"🤣
@@jtg1972 What I don't get is IF God is all knowing, of the past, present and future, and made everyone and everything, then isn't sending people to hell for eternity kind of psychopathic? If the all knowing being is the one who MADE you, then he, she, it or they made you the way that you are. Short, tall, good looking or ugly, gay or straight, moral or not, it's the God or deity that MADE you that way. And they would therefore KNOW what you would do throughout your entire life, all your words, beliefs and actions, because you're THEIR work. Then they want to turn around and send you to hell for BEING who THEY made you to be? And all because they LOVE you? That is psychotic behavior, it is NOT to be worshiped, it should be shunned and ignored. I was who you made me to be, and now you want to blame ME for that? And make me suffer for eternity because I WAS who you made me to be? Hardly sounds like a loving ANYTHING to me, it sounds like a spoiled child who doesn't like it when a toy doesn't "act right". And this is how people WANT to live? That makes NO sense to me. Never has.
When a theist argues that morality comes from god, they are essentially arguing that they are psychopaths without empathy and the ability to themselves discern whether something is right or wrong. It is very sad.
@Ajax Aidy Prove christianity had a part in ending slavery. This should be easy. Just give a citation from a reputable website. And whom was it that enslaved people? Did christians?
@@j0hncon5tantine i never made the claim that it wasn't. But if real-life cannibalism is so horrifying, why would anyone want to engage in it symbolically? What do you stand to gain from eating the flesh and drinking the blood of another person, symbolic or not?🤔
You ever wonder the cost of Pascal's wager? There it is. This intelligent man has wasted his entire life researching a deity, and ending up with a moral system where he can accept slavery, genocide and rape. Under the right circumstances of course. Pascal was wrong. It's not free. It's very very costly to follow a religion.
@@flatearth9140 Um no, not at all. That maxim in its various forms has been around since waaay before the bible was written in every religion/philosophy there ever was. And Jesus doesn't even stick by it!!! (See eternal fiery torment of souls - would he want that done to him??)
Seth: Blah, blah, cannibalism. Matt: *Rolls eyes* Seth: Slavery. Matt: *T R I G G E R E D* (Why must every theist caller try to justify what the Bible says on slavery when they know that won't fly)
Because they try to maintain the insulting idea that their holy bable is inerrant. As soon as you start to well this, that or the other is wrong the whole fallacy starts to collapse. My favourite argument used to be to ask where their incredulity ended, the talking snake or the rib woman or the genocide of almost every living thing except one boat load of the chosen. They cannot accept the nonsense in the bable so they are forced to defend immoral nonsense.
@@gazza595 You really got that right !. In my family (growing up) we all (4) kids had FULL freedom to read listen and think whatever !. My parents was Veterans (1939-1945) and none of them fell in the rabbit hole of Delusion, our home library was EXTENSIVE and next door was my countrys Head Library, NO church-going needed, except when I wanted to see what happens. We all grew up to be HUMANS, although never as "productive" as our parents. Instead of becoming LYING FREELOADERS like "pastors" ..................
Unless the question is dishonest, leading, loaded, or does not account for further possibilities; “Have you stopped beating your wife?” is the classic, but I’ve recently been thinking about “Do you want to allow prayer in schools?” (I think students and teachers can pray on their own time whenever they have it, but the school shouldn’t tell them to pray, so neither answer is accurate). Though here the question is pretty simple.
The sad truth is that Matt still has to deal with these same flatulent nonsense dispensers. He's gotten better at it, but they have never improved or come up with anything new or relevant.
It's amazing. This is a video from 2013, yet the same exact arguments from the thiests here haven't evolved at all. It's literally just the Trumpian method of spewing the same garbage over and over again in hopes that everyone will just eventually agree with you
My hats off to the atheist experience crew to hear the same old broken record claims and responses to legitimate questions and answers yet driving forward trying to correct ignorance and immorality in our world.
Ah, the tried and....well, failed method of talking fast and interrupting so the other person can't get a word in. Straight from the Ben Shapiro school of bad faith arguments
Meh, both sides are guilty of that. The only problem is the religious and crazy people keep using the same arguments, hoping (or praying) for a different outcome. You know that that means they're insane, right? Close minded and unwilling to learn are the key points to being a "good christian". Willful ignorance must be incredibly blissful 😂
@@matthew6427 At the very least, on the other side they're doing it for the sake of saving time. The religious side, if allowed to babble on, will end up wasting a lot of time building up bad argument upon bad argument when the whole thing could be dismantled on the first point.
It always struck me how immoral a christian can be even in the 21st century. I am amused to see how far they are ready to go in order to prove their blood thirsty fairy tale god´s book written by 2,000 years ago. And although we do know better today, they do not feel ashamed. Hence I found it very important that Matt exposes these guys! At least we know who they really are!
14:50 "I am in favour of slavery...ok, hold on" That's the most out-loud cognitive dissonance I've ever heard. He literally realised what he was saying and short-circuited his brain.
14:54 Caller: "I'm in favor of.... Ok, hold on.... Can I just explain...?" The waffling is powerful here. Matt walked him right into it and the caller never saw it coming. So many of these callers never think ahead. They just babble themselves into a corner and, finding themselves rhetorically trapped, try to duck and weave and slide out from under. I love watching Matt do this to them.
When you find yourself in the position of asking 'what's wrong with owning a person as property?' that should be a *huge* red flag that something has gone horribly wrong in your life and you need to step back and look for what has warped you to such a huge degree.
Fluffykeith Well, one can see it from so many nasty comments on these threads. Let’s all be nice to one another not to mention that which is so lacking in the world now, LOVE!
Fluffykeith Just read all the comments. We all need to rise above calling one another to gain self respect. Far to many people today project their inadequacies onto others, which they think turns them into something important, but it doesn’t. Introspection will do this over time.
... uhmmm...oh yes the caller and Matt said they owned cats. Ok, would the caller beat his cats to the point of almost death (still alive with broken bones and permanently injured internal organs) BUT STILL ALIVE!!!!....yup, it is allowed in Exodus, as long as they are still alive....well???!!!...
"God" and "good" are 2 separate and differently distinct concepts. We can have good without god and also god without good. For example, atheist doing good and believers doing evil.
I'm an atheist. My moral compass comes from my observation that what goes around comes around. If I treat others better then that type of behavior becomes the moral standard. Then once it is established that better moral standard directly benefits me because there will be less conflict and other problems in the society that I have to live in. Being moral is just a logical concept because it benefits me along with everyone else.
I have two dogs. They sleep in my bed, get the best available health care and eat the best food our vet recommends. Not sure if slaves get the same type of treatment.
We have 2 cats and a dog, and the truth behind it, they own us! We don't own them. They are family, they are loved and we take better care of them than we do ourselves a lot of the times. If this caller compares pet ownership to slavery they simply shouldn't have pets!
People who volunteer to go into war-torn areas to give medicine and shelter are not being enslaved or forced into servanthood to do this they volunteer they're not being owned by another person. They can stop volunteering anytime they want they are not being forced for 6 years into servanthood to be released in the 7th year. They also when they sign up to volunteer they're not being forced into being a volunteer for the rest of their life they can leave anytime they want even if they volunteer realize it's something they didn't want to do and leave an hour later. Servanthood in the Bible was not voluntary on a good note.
I see slavery as indentured servitude??? LMAO None of these people were indentured or signed a contract willingly to provide free labor. They were taken captive and sold off. I'd like to see what Seth has to say if he had been indentured.
No one who posites a God as the arbiter of morality can claim to be moral themselves. Moral people don't require someone else to tell them right from wrong because they possess the capacity to determine that for themselves. Furthermore, no more individual requires the threat of eternal punishment for them to behave in a moral manner. So should that becomes a part of your argument, in that moment, you've defined yourself into a losing argument.
Imagine when being faced with deciding whether slavery is moral that you'd choose to argue for the morality of slavery rather than question the existence and moral superiority of your imaginary friend.
Every theist argument for God's existence ever, presented in a court of law: Advocate for theism: "I want to talk about morality." Advocate for atheism: "Objection, Your Honor. Irrelevent and immaterial. The matter before the court is God's existence, not morality." Every judge in the world: "Sustained." Advocate for theism: "About where the universe came from..." Advocate for atheism: "Objection, Your Honor. Irrelevent and immaterial." Judge: "Sustained." Advocate for theism: " About fine-tuning..." Advocate for atheism: "Objection." Judge: "Sustained." Advocate for theism: " Kalam..." Advocate for atheism: "Objection." Judge: "Sustained." Advocate for theism: " Origin of DNA..." Advocate for atheism: "Objection." Judge: "Sustained." After this goes on for a couple hours,... Advocate for theism: "But the court hasn't allowed me to present a case!" Judge: "Tell that to the jury."
Seth in a nutshell: I want to show the world my thoughts are the best thoughts by referring to a book that says so much about so many things, written in prose so we can conveniently interpret it in whatever way we wish.
So the caller thinks slavery is fine so long as it's in accord with the Bible and this person presumably votes. Matt & Martin, thank you for battling against these pernicious ideas. They would send our country back to the Dark Ages if we did not.
This notion that God is required for morality tends to be espoused by people who are regurgitating some predigested version of Augustine, without ever having studied the original. And Augustine is merely a rehash of Plotinus via a Christian lens. And Plotinus is merely an update of Plato. Talk about a shadow of a shadow of a philosophy.
"There's a difference between having a feeling that something is right or wrong and being able to account objectively for right and wrong." Since nobody can prove that difference, including this guy, that "argument" fails, too.
The cat analogy is completely broken. Humans are slaves to the cat, we feed them, we let them have free reign to sleep and move wherever they please. Show me any domestic housecat that isn't the boss of their surroundings.
One of the typical Martin episodes where he needs to hear himself talk so much, he derails the direction and flow of the conversation just ensure he is the one talking. Some people talk because they have something to say, others talk because they HAVE to say SOMETHING!
Not even going to listen to the nonsense. If you HAVE to be threatened to be a moral person, then you are a failure as a human being. No God or deity will change that. Honestly, the attitude that humans are just TERRIBLE creatures who need to be redeemed into something else is just foolish. And it assumes that anyone not of THEIR God or deity is inferior. Seems pretty arrogant to me. If you HAVE to have eternal damnation held over your head to NOT be a complete POS to others, then the fault is in YOU, NOT in everyone else. Oh, and for the record, I've been treated worse by the religious than by anyone else. I'm 61 and I can say that without fear of contradiction. The level of judgement coming from those whose book tells them NOT to judge others is astonishing. I do my best to stay away from people like that.
I have been treated the worse by atheist, truly without respect. Religious people always, without exception, treated me with respect and always helped When i needed. Atheist didn't, always were cold, obnoxious, salty and unrespecteful. You have your story i got mine. So your point is?
Unbelievable, this clown actually thinks he can defend his obviously flawed "inerrant" holy book by nonsensical comparative argument. Fred Astaire had NOTHING on this guy, what a superb tap dancer.
I conversed with a inerrant Bible believer. I opened the topic of slavery in the Hebrew Bible. His take was what if civilization degraded back to a point where slavery would be acceptable again...a modern world wide civilization devastating catastrophe happening where the old testament would be applicable again...dang!!!...then the testament on how to handle slaves would be again applicable....tsk...tsk...tsk... He would rather the world devolve into anarchy so that his allegedly "inerrant Bible" could be true!!!...woaw... That is frigin supercalifragikalistically messianically out of wack...
@@davidlava5832 well...you know how the religious have turned a neutral, simple one-meaning word like ATHEIST into a strongly negatively-connoted monstrous epithet to be feared? Same thing for ANARCHY.
7 years ago, but still fresh ! *Indentured servitude* my backside ! Nowadays we call them wage slaves. People forced to work for the benefit of others in order to earn a living. Only now the slave has to look after him/herself beyond the work place.
Well, ultimately we're all slaves to human necessities: food, shelter, security, etc. You can go live in a deep forest and fend for yourself if you really want to, but few do so. For the rest: those necessities are provided for by society. If you want those things, then you'll have to contribute to society. Otherwise, to demand societal resources while not contributing, would mean that others would be compelled to work for free-loaders. A system with inherited wealth allows for free-loaders, but a system which does not require work at all, also allows for free-loaders. The problem exists on both ends. Compelled work exists within society due to scarcity of resources and necessity to avoid free-loaders. Compelled work exists outside of society because of nature itself. Compelled work is inevitable.
When matt was saying that a society with slaves is demonstrably worse off then a society that prohibits slavery. Seth responded with "well that's just your opinion" . That has to be one of the most annoying fallacies that can be committed. If what I'm saying is just my opinion, where does that put your argument? I could say his argument is opinion as well. The problem with "well that's just your opinion" is that it doesn't bring anything new to the table. It doesn't help anyone's argument. And also, When you have an opinion that is supported by facts, Logic, and evidence, it is no longer just an opinion. It becomes a supported premise.