Please don't ever use a Sigma lens again when testing autofocus. LMAO Come on guys...native glass versus a lens with an incredibly poor reputation for autofocusing accuracy. Great video otherwise.
We chose to put sigma's across the board because that seemed like the fairest test. No one had an upper hand in that respect. We got a lot of complaints from the last one saying we didn't use the best 50mm. I guess you can never win
Emerald Leong Most people I know don't use third party lenses. I recommend that when testing cameras you use the manufacturer's lenses, and when comparing lenses, compare lenses for Canon separately from lenses for Nikon etc.
Emerald Leong I absolutely totally think using the same lens for testing image quality is the way to go. But when you're testing autofocus, you should really put their latest 70-200s against each other. It would give a more accurate representation of what to expect from these cameras and their systems. I am happy you tested IQ with the same lenses. But the Sigma is honestly garbage for autofocus through the viewfinder. It's not reliable for me...but if I put my Canon 85 or 24-70, 70-200, etc. it's exceptional. Sorry for the harsh criticism I had, but it's just a fact that Sigmas aren't a good comparison point for these cameras.
Would the Canon 50mm f/1.2 or Nikon 50mm f/1.4 work better though? If you put the Zeiss Plannar 50mm f/1.4 on the a9, it would place Canon/Nikon in an even more disadvantage situation.
Not a bad test, but the out of focus ISO test really creates a bias. Not to say it changes the outcome, but it will definitely make the noise look more appealing. I liked the DR test, but these cameras aren't going to be shot at base ISO very often. I would consider using a more natural ISO for the class/type of camera being used. The same goes for the AF test. Sorry, but most users of these cameras (save for the A9) will unlikely allow the camera to choose their AF point. They will likely be using the single point or small group. I love that you guys tried to even out the playing field with the 50's, but in all honesty, most manufacturers go out of their way to discourage third party lenses, so AF performance is likely better tested with native lenses.
The silent shutter of the a9 doesn't have rolling shutter, thanks to the stacked sensor. But the A7iii 's silent shutter does have pretty serious rolling shutter effects. So that's the advantage of the a9.
Yeah, it's almost impossible to get rolling shutter on the a9 (theoretically it's possible, but you probably wouldn't be able to keep the camera in your hands if you were whipping it around that fast). It will get light banding with some bad PWM LED lighting situations, though. But that's a pretty uncommon circumstance.
greengraycolor hey thanks for your comment. We didn't show rolling shutter!! In video I think that would be more important. You should try to do your own tests as well.
The focusing issues are likely the sigma lens. They are known to have many issues across many models. You probably should repeat those with native lenses as I've never seen that level of focusing problems with either the 1dx or d5.
Rickey Carter I like how at no point did they acknowledge the Signature being a problem, and the high ISO test it was confirming focus incorrectly... amazing. Also, why didn't they manually focus that part of the test.
Bad choice for the a9 it’s one of the few Sony lenses that shoot at a lower frame rate. Sony has a chart of all lenses that can shoot at 20fps, unfortunately most are g or g master and very few are Zeiss labeled. There is no rolling shutter on the a9, it’s a stacked sensor. I own a D5 and a9, the sigma lens is garbage for focus tracking. You guys should have done any research on sport capable lenses.
I agree. I have the 1dx2 + 50 art combo and it's def not my first pick for speed. You can tweak the camera's autofocus settings to improve the lens speed but the sigma is not ideal for "action" vs other 50s.
Emerald Leong No for AF performance you probably best to use native lenses like 24-70 f2.8 or 70-200 f2.8. Sigma can't focus on stationary objects let alone moving :)
Thank you for doing is I’m a Canon shooter 1XD Mark ll, I did the Nikon thing back in the 80s and 90s it was ok😂 sony is just taking too long to come out with good long lenses so it’s never been a viable system for me, when I put my 600mm f4 on my 1DX Markll. I know every time it’s going to work and work right. And after spending that kind of money on a piece of glass I’m not about to reinvest in soni, by a time Sony comes out with a good 600mm lens I’ll probably be dead anyway, and sony does a lot of great things, I used their television cameras for 16 years and love them but sony kills me by bing out a new camera body every 11 months
I understand the intent to be fair by using the same third-party lens on each body, but this isn’t real world - or fair. OEM lenses are designed to exploit the features of the body. In the real world, photographers are going to buy make the most of their camera bodies. For example, two of Canon’s flagship lenses are the EF 24-70 f2.8 II and the EF 70-200 f2.8 II. These are the best lenses to use with the 1Dx2 servo AF test for Canon. Sigma doesn’t license the AF software from Canon, so they need to reverse engineer it for their Canon mount lenses. While the glass may be the same for these three lenses, the AF software isn’t. In short, it’s hacked. Was the AF tested for each lens to ensure that each was calibrated correctly? Was AF micro adjustment used to ensure that each lens did focus on the same point? An issue with the video test is the image stabilization. Canon and Nikon put a lot of engineering into their respective in-lens image stabilization technologies. It’s silly to test video image stability on a Canon body without using a Canon IS lens. Anytime servo AF focusing is tested, tell us which method was used. Was it an AF “Case Mode” designed for the situation being tested? Was it single-point with 4 expansion points that Canon shooters often use? Was it the full field with iTR that also performs well for Canon shooters? Choosing the same method for each body may seem fair, but a true comparison is to use the method that works best for each body and for each situation. One last test that I would like to see are more challenging servo AF situations - like a figure skating ice show under nothing but spotlights with skaters moving erratically. Can the AF system track a skater who changes speed and direction quickly, then rotates during a jump? Imagine how erratic this situation is if the AF locks onto part of the body that is moving left to right while rotating away from the lens and back toward it. How will these bodies handle skaters in costumes that offer little contrast for the AF system? Canon offer iTR to utilize the exposure system to help in these situations. Does the Nikon or Sony have anything similar? We don’t spend $5,000+ on bodies to capture models walking toward us while using Sigma lenses. I would truly like to know how these bodies perform when paired with the lenses that are designed to exploit their features, while shooting in extreme conditions.
Garth Scholten seems like we are between a rock and a hard place on this issue. We are damned if we put the same lens on each camera and we are damned if we don't use the same quality native glass. What do you suggest
I think the premise of comparing the bodies with an “independent” lens is flawed because each manufacturer designs their bodies to work with their OEM lenses as a complete system. Keep in mind that these are high performance sports bodies designed to get the shot in the most challenging situations. The Sigma 50 ART lens is not in the same league as a sports lens for demanding situations. The 70-200 f2.8 image stabilized lens is one of the most popular lenses among pros and enthusiasts for shooting indoor sports, events, and portraits. Odds are high that anyone purchasing one of these bodies will be using it with a 70-200 from the same manufacture. I purchased my 1Dx2 for use with my Canon EF 20-200 f2.8 IS II lens. If I were to switch to the Nikon D5 or the Sony A9, I would also be switching to their respective 70-200 f2.8 image stabilized lens. I want to know if the D5 with a Nikon 70-200, or the A9 with a Sony 70-200 can get those challenging action shots with greater ease than my Canon system. So, compare these flagship bodies with their manufacturer’s flagship 70-200 f2.8 lenses. But, inherent with many of these comparisons is that they don’t fully dive into the features that can be utilized for different situations because the reviewers simply don’t have the experience to get the most out of each body. I would also like to see Canon, Nikon, and Sony pros doing the shooting.
Had the 1DXM2 but recently switched to Sony A7III. I don't need 20fps, but wanted a camera that was just as good for video as stills. Granted, the A7III does not have 4k 60p but I was so disappointed when Canon decided to include CLOG for the 5DM4, but not the 1DXM2. Dynamic range on the 1DXM2 (video) is 10 stops at best. The 1DXM2 could really use CLOG. Why Canon chose not to include it on the 1DXM2 is beyond me. Great review! Thanks!
Jess Demant Aggeboe indeed and there is no better prove than to see canikon now desperate to get for real into mirror less market. It's going to be a while for them to get going while Sony keeps gaining market. Talk about big companies losing connection with what the market wanted and now trying to catch up
Canon has patents for better tech and features that Sony always has to skirt around. They have perfected a mirrorless crop sensor camera. They just have to make it bigger. Not that difficult. Also, they are not desperate as they still dominate the market especially the professional market where Sony still has less than 10% market share.
Did you really get rolling shutter with the model walking towards you? I live in electronic shutter land 24/7 with my A9 and I haven't noticed it. That's the most important difference between the three; once you go silent, you don't wanna go back! I do enjoy your comparisons though!
Well done, like all your videos! I purchased the 1DXM2 when it first came out and regrettably sold it after about 6 months. I'm a pro-am photographer and decided it was overkill for me, and that there were better options available for me at lower price point and with better IQ. Looking back, the 1DXM2 is the favorite camera I've ever owned (as a camera only, as I don't do videography) and I'm seriously considering going back to it. The IQ is more than good enough, it felt great in my hands, I loved the integrated GPS, and it felt indestructible -- I took it anywhere with me and didn't feel the need to baby it. Yea, the thing is HUGE when you look at it, but it feels just right to me when shooting. I evaluated it against the D5 at the time of purchase and personally experienced better AF performance (perhaps just a settings thing, but my experience), and qualitatively preferred the colors from it so I chose it over the Nikon. I currently own the D850, and even though technically superior in almost every way, when I go back and look at my 1DXM2 photos I come to same conclusion that I probably ended up making a mistake selling it. Glass could be a huge factor here since I tend to stick with native glass. I did not experience the same poor AF issues you saw. In my experience, the 1DXM2 paired w/ EF 300 /2.8 IS II shames the D850 w/ 300 /2.8 ED-IF II.
You shoudnt really compare those cameras with third party lens attached on them this is why you get issues with AF. Mirrorless camera always will do better in this situation
What the focusing eye test does not show is that the A9 will nail they eye anywhere on the screen while the others cannot focus anywhere nor follow the eye like the Sony does
I'm in love with my A9 lol but I also believe at this point and time all of those higher end Cameras will get the job done 100%. It's all about what different features work better for you because they all have little different things that makes them fit you better.
The canon held up amazing almost as good as Sony’s 1 year old newer sensor. The 1dx2 is a great camera that is for sure the x3 will be interesting especially if it has 120 4K or maybe even 240 that be dreaming though . The Sony is very good if there native glass gets a decent priced used market sooner it would definitely be a great option but damn that full frame glass they proud of and if your going to be using a camera in this class I’d personally always want native.....fuck that sigma shit hahaha
FYI You are not getting 20fps with A9 and 55FE lens. Sony has a list of lenses that can do 20fps. Then there is a list of those that can do 15fps. 55 FE is on 15fps, so it is incapable of doing 20fps.
Here, The first list is 20fps lenses, the second list below (click on it to open) is the list of 15fps only lenses, for A9. support.d-imaging.sony.co.jp/www/support/ilc/products/ilce9/continuousshooting/en/index.html?id=spt
I think the skin tone comparison does not make much sense. I don't know how the skin is looking in real life. I simply can't tell which one is more realistic. Yet people are judging "this one looks the best" but for me it's not what looks the most pleasing in front of my monitor, it's what looks the most close to the real life skin tone which I can't tell since I do not have seen the woman in real life.
Pretty stoked to see if the wait was warranted for Canon and Nikon. I have an a7III and I’m not regretting it one bit but I’m also not against going Canon again if their next iterations and mirrorless can compete . Sony really needs to go bigger with the next α9 though, or at least have an option for it. A battery grip is really not the same when we’re talking pro bodies with the ruggedness and sealing of flagship Canikon bodies. ideally, id be happiest if they conjure up a way to match the robustness of the competition while having the same sealing with or without a grip. The option to add or remove a grip is great but these bodies are for sports and photojournalism in any and all conditions. And an α9R would be perfect for wildlife. Being cheaper is great but having a $5-6K option for pros would mean a no-compromise switch for anyone on the fence, especially with the large telephotos finally coming into the lineup.
Emerald Leong no disagreements here! Only thing it’s lacking compared to others down the line is MP and articulating screen. MP would hinder speed (although at least 24 on the next model would be welcome) and you have to go down the line to get that articulating screen. I honestly don’t think they should add one into the flagship model; if it leaves the body it takes away from the ruggedness that this line is all about imo. No reason any other body shouldn’t have one though, especially the high MP models that will be used for landscapes and such that would benefit from the angle freedom.
Many pros take risks with their gear to get the shot. I think odds are high that adding an articulated screen to a 1Dx will keep Canon sevice centers busy repairing broken screens. It will also hurt the 1Dx reputation as a rugged body if repair numbers skyrocket -- even if it is user error.
After 14:00 Nikon is out of focus or so much soft that it gets ridiculous for a 6000 usd professional camera!! Why are you keep saying that Nikon is better although its so obviously soft?? really! Are you trying to change the impressions of a problematic Nikon? Sony is obviously much more detailed and with much better dynamic range!
oh yah, i dont think so, from my experience, when i go out with my 1dx mark 2, and meet others camera brand user, and when they look at my 1dx mark 2, they was stunned for a while, staring at my camera, wondering is that 1dx mark 2 ? and in one occasion, i came a cross with a lady and she instantly said woww thats a nice camera. LOL. oh and one day, my daughter accidentally kick my 1dxmark2 off to the ground from 2-3 feet high, amazingly, not even a mark or sracth on my 1dx mark 2. yeah now i see a lot of people using a73 , well luckily i am not one of them...
I don’t care. Since I use fisheye, macros, 600f4, tilt shift. I have no interest in a gadget that offered “advantages” in scenarios that I as an artist and photographer would never even get to experience. In the rare scenarios when I do screw up and under/overexpose, the difference isn’t by enough to really change the image significantly imo. The photographers that do everything with one system can’t use a Sony yet, or at least I can’t. I also prefer optical viewfinders. I’d never switch to evf only. I’d add a camera with an evf of course but would never switch.
All amazing cameras. If you're shooting with with an over exposed background, I would recommend some off camera flash or a strobe. I shoot with a D810 and D750, very happy with them still as I do not shoot video. Oh, seriously should've shot with NATIVE glass.
Very interesting to see. But are you guys hesitant about Sony? You seemed a bit disappointed when Sony came out on top 😂😂 but I know not everyone likes Sony But the other thing, the size of the Sony is good for people like me who have small hands and wrist issues. It’s easier to hold then the bigger Nikon and canon. But very interesting. Gonna watch more of your guys videos 😊
The biggest thing for me is how the D5 performs in low light to barely any light. It does pretty incredible, IMO. It's able to find points of focus really, really well. Not sure how it compares to these others and the D850, but it definitely kicks the ass of the other Nikon D series cameras.
Another great review: thenk you. I have to agree with your assessment in respect of the A9 vs A7III. The combined weight of my Nikon D500 and Olympus EM1 mark II sytems was killing me (I walk for 7 - 8 hours a day, 5 days a week). I swapped my two systems for a single Sony A7III and three lenses. I really wanted an A9, or so I thought, but could not affford one. I have to acknowledge, however, that the A7III is so good I no longer lust after an A9. I am able to capture fast moving Swifts, Swallows, House Martins as well as dragonflies in flight. Though my D500 and EM1.2 were brilliant cameras, I have no regrets changing to an A7III.
A good focus test would be with the 400 F2.8 native lenses, Although I think the Sony G Master would win. Your video was very good, i have liked, shared, and subscribed. I bought the A9 over a year ago, and at the time looked at the Canon and Nikon. I am a specialist wildlife photographer and videographer. and felt that mirror-less was the future.
I like the Canon colors but I also have so many Canon lenses that I would just prefer to stay with them at this point. Mirrorless is just not quite there yet for me. No enough lens choices and get dirty very easy in my opinion.
thanks for your comment. perhaps in the future, we will look into it. however we are working within a limited budget for these FREE videos. we always suggest that you conduct your own tests and use these are references.
even i appreciate your effort doing such video , there's a lot of "bugs" in it : you must use the same "equal" native lenses of each brands (for AF , IQ ...) , and testing AF speed/accuracy in a variety of situations (front/back light and at low light , natural and artificial) .
The comment was in jest, haha. We all like to think the camera we own is better than the competition. However, as the old adage goes "The best camera is the one in your hand" Great video. Thanks for posting. By the way I own both Sony and Canon bodies and lenses.
I would like to have seen you test focus tracking in live view, particularly with the Canon. I know it sounds silly at first glance, I would have liked the Canon M50 in the mix too, principally because I see it as the baseline. I expect every future Canon DSLR and mirrorless will match or better its 4K video and its DPAF which now includes eye tracking.
OneEyedPhotographer great comments! We would love to do live view for some of these. Right now we just don't have it in our budget. But perhaps we'll start a patreon page or something??
I own the D5 and the D850. For action/motorsports buffer is a consideration and that's where the D5 shines. I love the D850 for all around use but when it comes to action of fast moving subjects and the need for long bursts or multiple frames in short period it can be a challenge waiting for the 46MP to course the pipeline. So yes, the D5 is a niche camera at the moment.
Emerald Leong yes, I was watching reviews and the 7iii seems to lose its quality at high iso compared to the 7sii which still maintains the details of the image while still having the noise. It blows my mind how much of the quality is lost at high iso which literally makes it pointless because the images won’t be usable
What aperture are you using in the dynamic range test? It looks like the Nikon has more bokeh. The first test with her wearing the hat, Nikon looks closer.
Considering the constraints of the lens differential, I think this is a fair comparison of actual usage. I watch other channels that are more detailed, but it's the actual use that I'm interested in most. Kudos!
I do agree that bias wasn’t evident and it was apparent that Jay and his team tried to be fair and impartial in their reviews. I’ve always appreciated the effort that Jay puts into all of his product reviews. I have also liked Jay’s focus on real world tests. But, I think this review fell short because these bodies weren’t tested as real world pros would use them. I’ve commented previously on how the lens choice flawed the review. The other challenge is that these bodies are designed to capture action under the most challenging conditions. They offer an extensive array of settings to give the photographer more control to get the most out of the body. (Well, I know that Canon does and assume the same for Nikon and Sony.) To truly compare these bodies, one needs to recreate some of those challenging conditions with photographers who have the expertise to make each body perform its best. For example, with the Canon, there are times when single point AF with 4 expansion points works best for AF Servo mode. There are others when iTR AF and the full AF field works best. Then there 6 AF Case Modes designed for tracking different types of action. There’s anti-flicker which saves countless hours of post work fixing color from old fluorescent lighting. Real world photographers will use these options to get the most out of the body. Part of the technology and the cost for these bodies lies with these features. If I compare these bodies, I want to know if each offers a similar degree of control. Ok, I’ve just described a very detailed, lengthy, and potentially boring comparison video. Still, I think it would be very interesting to invite pro sports shooters from Canon, Nikon, and Sony to do real world challenges under more extreme conditions (including low light). This can skip past the need to compare all the details of all the features and let the pros explain how they got the most out of the body for the given challenge.
like Nikon D850 with the 105mm 1.4 i think or any other lens that match the best camera and native lens vs Sony best camera same lens and Canon best camera same lens comparison, with native lens , be mechanical or silent shot, so what can each of them can do same situation but at they maximun performance nor same setting beacuse when i am buying something i not using setting base on other camera but what i have at hand,so looking peak performance per dollar like real competition between photographer to get the best shot with different camera but same mm lens.
hey clyde, thanks for checking out our video! everyone has their own opinion! it really depends on what you're shooting (as with everything). do you own the 1dx?
This is very well done guys, I didn't since any bias here. You guys laid it out how it came and these cameras needed to be compared. The Sony showed that although it is the new guy, it came prepared for the others. Canon showed that even though they have been lagging behind a bit, the Canon answers the question for Canon shooters. Nikon is just ridiculous for video and this is way over do that Nikon correct this because there is no excuse in this generation for poor video. Nikon's image quality is still pretty good. I think the people who choose Nikon or Canon are people who are married to their lenses or people like myself that have large hands and don't want to take a beating on trade ins and are not quite convinced yet, due to Sony's still lack luster lens selection even though it's getting better. Sony prices of their cameras are quite competitive, (think A7III, almost a loss leader) but their glass is more expensive than Nikon and Canon and I think Sony is making up their money on the glass. Sony doesn't really have a used market for their lenses because no one either trades them in (the G Master Series) or if they do they are scarfed up quickly on the used market because Sony hasn't been making lenses long enough to have the built up the used market that Nikon or Canon has, which helps to cut cost because lets face it some people buy only used lenses to cut cost. Bottom line is if you are going for Sony, you want something new, you see the future (which is mirrorless) in the focusing system, love the camera size, and features that Nikon and Canon can't compete with yet. You guys showed that there is no perfect camera. Bottom line get the camera that best suits your needs and enjoy it and go out and make some magic with it.
