@@kurzackd Nope, it's just the difference between all the tanks being able to shoot and splash the ultras vs ultras can only attack the front line of tanks. Plus siege tanks do a lot of bonus damage to "armored" units, and the ultralisk counts as armored.
@@danlorett2184 Not to mention the advantage that ranged units have in general vs melee -- if you're just going to a-move the ultras forward, and not bother with a surround, a lot of their damage potential is lost as the infamous collision physics ultras have to deal with causes them to fumble about behind the ones in front of them.
@@danlorett2184 yeah, but 1) siege tanks also injure THEIR OWN, 2) Ultras have splash TOO and 3) Actually, the Ultralisks spread out relatively well in this simulation. It just boggles my mind, and that's why I say I'm convinced that the displayed upgrade values CAN'T be right...
@@marreh100 Of course it is. What do you think he's micro-ing those individually? LOL no way. The programming for it is super simple, as opposed to stutter step or other micro.
@@ZC.Andrew still, the question is if one can beat the other. For it to be a fair test either both get to try to avoid damage or neither does, no matter how hard or easy that is to program (and you can just turn off the auto cast)
I wouldn't mind if the match ups weren't completely obvious personally. I've watched a few and maybe got 1/15 guesses wrong because I play and watch a lot of StarCraft2
The way the battle happens kinda forces the ultras to lose. They clump up and get wrecked by the tanks. If the ultras attacked from all sides I think the tanks would melt
@@arkuss9898 I think the preparation attack is fair the ultralisk gets the chance to come closer and the tanks needs to transform giving the ultralisk the first strike.
I didn't understand what happened there. I haven't played melee much, but all of the reapers I have used in the campaign and co-op have nothing but a basic attack without micro, and would have been absolutely steamrolled by the zerglings.
@@drew9851 It is not a melee ability, they have a small grenade that does the same thing u have mentioned, they also have combat drugs that heals them out of combat
Tempests suffer too much from overkilling while voidrays waste 0 dps if their target dies. Tempests are ideal when u have a small team that can one shot enemy key units, less than that and the unit survives and can react to the tempests low attack rate and more than that and tempest attacks overkill and go to waste . Void rays will always be a noob friendly unit , 0 dps wasted goes a long way during a micro fight.
The Void Rays bunching up also reduced the likelihood that any individual Void would get targeted, meaning that very few were ever targeted long enough to be killed.
I'm being honest here, I have seen lots of these, almost all of them done rather poorly. But this one is one of the worse ones, definitely below average. The time spent on the cinematic effects just makes it worse, because it begs the question, if the video producer has all this time, energy, and tools, why didn't they spend some of it on balancing the engagements?
Although it's funny to see these battles, they are not quite fair. Many units are expected to be used strategically, and won't show their true potencial
Fun fact. Marine vs Hydras. In Starcraft 1 & 2 S1 = 200 marines vs 100 hydras. Naturally marines wins. s2 = 200 marines vs 100 hydras. Hydras wins. Why?? Because in S1 hydras they deal damage to Light armors at 5 damage only which is sucks. But deal 10 damage to armored. Yet in S2 hydras deal 12 damage in both.
The Cyclone's greatest strength is kiting, which the cyclones definitely are not doing, while the stalkers get to blink out before they die. Really not an accurate portrayal of in-game interactions. Edit: As another person has pointed out, the Cyclones do not even have Mag Fields, but are said to be "Fully Upgraded".
that in my opinion was the most surprising outcome. Did the tempests start firing at their max range though? Thats the biggest advantage of Tempests, range and ability to attack air and ground.
@@michaelmoore2052 Tempests are meant to be used as a prodding unit. They attack from their extreme range to force the enemy to react(especially the turtlerers) or else they'll be chipped down. They're not actually meant to be in a slug out fight.
Well yeah. Void rays are designed to hunt Tempests, but Tempests are not designed to hunt Void Rays. @@michaelmoore2052 The Tempests' range advantage actually worked against them. You can see the Void Rays all clump together at the same distance while the Tempests are all at staggered distances. This causes the Void Rays to focus fire on the front Tempests while the Tempests spread their fire across all Void Rays. As a result, not a single Void Ray even goes past shields.
Still, the Tempests would have done much better if they hadn't split up their fire. The range disadvantage of the Void Rays actually caused them to focus fire, giving them a large advantage. They still would have won, but probably more than half of the Void Rays would have gone down, as opposed to zero.
Well for one, void rays are not capital ships, so no bonus for tempest, they also have slow rate of fire. Void rays prismatic alignment is anti armor, this absolutely melts tempests. Tempest have always been weak to voids unless you abuse their range.
I wonder if the Marines would have fared better if they'd have moved their full formation into range before stopping to fire. Their numbers advantage was heavily blunted here by the fact that half their line spent a lot of time futzing about looking for a shooting position.
I feel like those marines would absolutely crush hydras with little micro, steam, hit and run. Also this amount of stalkers can't be micro blinked so perfectly.
The marines would have won if they even just had stimpacks that auto-activated when they started shooting. After all, that's what the stalkers had, basically.
@@userasdf Against other non-splash units, esp. if air is some of the enemies. Zerglings win out by pure raw DPS, while zealots win out by overall brawling potential.
What about slowly increase the amount and upgrades of an a unit until he wins the fight? Because actually the Amount makes not sense. Like 10 Stalker and 5 Marines, increase amount of Marines and upgrading as well. I try to extract knowledge i can use in a normal fight. Thank you
1. Actually surprising 2. I'd count that a marine win, Hydras cost 5k extra which essentially made them double the value of the marines. Also no shields, which would never happen at these numbers. 3. Roaches would've won way harder if moved closer (which you do from silver league upwards) 4. Cyclone is completely useless as A-Move unit, wasted test
Shouldn't give stalkers the blink upgrade. No other unit was allowed to be microd. Those marines could have beaten the hydras with stutter step. The reapers could have killed the lings with far fewer casualties. This wide open area also gives a way bigger advantage to the larger army. Getting a big concave around your opponent can make a weaker but more numerous army come out on top.
@@dominicteoh9475 the amount of marines running back and forth in the back of the line while the hydras formed a concave made a big difference. If you allowed the marines to stutter step more into the range to fire, it could have made a difference.
I feel like these are kind of bad comparisons if one costs profoundly more than the other. Not only is it about cost but tanks in the back could have sieged way sooner and dominated even more. I have seen you do comparisons with similar unit costs but this one is nearly double on both fronts. Tanks would have won WAY WAY faster if similar resources were spent.
Not just that, but I think it would have been better if the front row of tanks DIDN'T siege up, because they pretty much didn't get any shots in by the time they were killed.
Stim is not an ability that the AI can auto cast like other abilities for some reason. None of the marine fight I have seen on other channel has stimmed marine either and it was the explanation
wow i thought the ultras would win that from melee range very swiftly - i also thought that the siege tanks would have done better if they didn't enter siege mode - i was wrong
5/6 got trolled by roach. I really understimated those roach. Siege tanks beats almost any ground units so idk if that's worth to use them. Stalker's blink makes hard difference but if cyclone haf the lock they would insta win cause of vision. I'm not sure though if the lock get cancel by blink. Also tempest are only worth to use vs massive cause else they are terrible. From the simple marine to any non-massive unit tempest are not worth.
Also the ultras didn't get a good surround. They were just waiting in line to get blown up. These videos are pointless because he doesn't micro them, unless it's stalkers.........
@@joeriv5462 I'm pretty sure the videos are not meant to be micro displays, but rather the pure satisfaction of seeing hundreds of units killing each other.
@@joeriv5462 well you cant order this units to sorround them siege tanks one by one, its a fair fight I think. Besides look how much resources the ultralisk costs and also the unit capacity. The siege tank will definitely obliterate them if you match the amount and total unit capacity.
Tee whole point of cyclones is fighting while moving away from target, in this video the cyclones were completely stationary so doesn't reflect real situation.
Cyclones vs. Stalkers are a tricky one, because Blink breaks the missile lock - the Stalker can either blink away and disengage, or teleport right next to or even behind the Stalker and get a fair few shots in with stutter step if not just plain blocking their escape until the Lock On cooldown expires.
@@anonymouse3471 you don't necessarily need to be on top. Landing a few, say, good parasitic bombs, or better yet, a good nydus worm placement can break the back of your opponent faster than searing through their defenses with an ultra.
kind of a pointless desmontration because in each case the winner was obvious from the start. I am, however, surprised by TWO things: 1) I thought that the tanks would get RAPED, especially when I saw them sieging up so LATE. wtf happened here? mb the author accidentally upgraded the tanks, even tho he says all units are 0-0 ?? 2) I thought that cyclones vs stalkers would be more evenly matched, closer. I thought that maybe only a few stalkers will remain. Instead like 20 remained.
1) once they're sieged, all the tanks get to fire on the ultras and their splash is way better than ultra splash. On top of that, siege tanks do bonus damage to "armored" units and ultras are armored. There's a reason nobody just walks into sieged tanks. 2) this was on the OP. Cyclones are basically made for kiting and even though he said "fully upgraded" the cyclones didn't have mag-field and weren't kiting, while the stalkers were blinking away.
They are when you don’t have a 75 siege tank wall in the way of the ultralisks taking out the other 75 siege tanks. Aoe damage was deciding factor and if simulation ran multiple times you’ll see that tanks get taken out sometimes by their own attacks and lose. Idea of ultralisk was to survive aoe hit to get close enough where siege tank can’t attack when in siege mode. If he left them in regular mode the tanks would’ve definitely lost. So all in all zerg is op. 😂
Reaper's friendly fire is disabled on the charge. I guess same goes for the tanks. Of course things will be one sided if some of the rules are disabled.
then the hydras would have 3/3 whats your point? Marines are great but without medivacs they die quick. Hydras do a lot of damage but also dont take damage well which is army compositions are never just one unit in game
tanks do extra dmg vs armored units and they have way better splash. Plus once sieged all the tanks can attack while the ultras are stacking up trying just to kill the front line.
Максимально бесполезное видео. КТо же будет мариками биться без стима и хитэндрана? Кто будет неразложенными танками воевать7(была разложена примерно треть танков.) Кто будет драться против дреев под разогревом? Сразу отлетят и сразу после того как разогрев кончится драться будут. Смысл этого видео? Соотношение сил оно никак не демонстрирует.