Can a FAKE be just as good? Marantz 7-inspired circuit, Reisong Q6 tube preamp. 

I am currently using a FM Acoustics 255 "clone" preamp I bought off of Aliexpress. Cost about $350 including shopping. I've owned some pretty high end gear over the years. And this thing approaches a pretty high percentage of their performance. I've compared this clone to about half a dozen other preamps over $2000, and this thing bested them all

According to the folks who sell tubes, replace the 6Z4 tube with the 6X4 tube, using a 6X4 to 6Z4 adapter.

Hey Thomas nice video. I spoke about China HiFi the other day and said that the original FM Acoustics 300A was one of the best amps I've ever owned and that I think that the China clone has a real chance to work well. So a few of my viewers bought this amp the feedback was extremely positive across the board. So the question "is it as good as the real deal" does not matter. The real one was around 30.000 bucks the clone is 400 something. It does not need to compete with the original, it needs to compete with the smallest Atoll or Exposure and yes it does.

Have you heard the AIYIMA T9 integrated for $129 on Amazon yet? Tone controls, DAC, Bluetooth. 6K4 tubes? Great Video!

Those grid and cathode resistors are horrible. Replacing them with something better would yield a lot better performance. And I bet the filament is very noisy. So smoothen that out would improve noise a lot.

Hi Thomas, After watched your reveiw, I bought this Reisong Q6 from Amazon At $499 two months ago. It is a good tube pre-amp. I like it at this price point. Thanks for your review. Can you please review Reisong A60 tube amp? I really like it, but can not find any reviews in the internet. Thanks, Michael

It is 600 on Amazon so pay a little more try it out and return if you do not like....

Cheesecake politics is a serious manner.

Does it have riaa phono input (for turntables)? Or are all inputs just the same?

I had the 728A when it first came out as well. What a lemon! Great video as usual. 2 questions: 1. What is the Demo song you always use. It is crazy catchy! 2. You need to talk to #aricaudio and try one of his preamps. I love mine and have a feeling its right up your alley!

I think the best thing about the Reisong are its looks. I love the way the knobs and buttons look, the buttons in particular remind me of some 80s & 90s gear. Beyond the comparison I think the other thing we’ve learnt is that Thomas is better at producing audio gear than he is at baking cheese cake.

The mistake to avoid is, NEVER even try the Michelin cheesecake in the first place

Very interesting review and information. I would like to know how the copied McIntosh 275 sounds.

I have searched many websites that sell the Reisong Q6 and vacuum tubes. What I have learned, is to improve the Q6 power supply, upgrade to an American or European NOS 6V6 tube and replace the 6Z4 with a NOS American or European 6X4 tube utilizing a good quality 6X4 to 6Z4 adapter with copper conductors. I hope this helps.

Great review. I've always been curious about how these "clone" units sounds.

Some of these preamps can be pretty decent. I have an old "Chi-fi" preamp I've held onto, it's very sensitive to Tube Rolling, even the Rectifier makes a difference, especially with Bass output. I don't normally upload videos but I just did one showing a WiiM mini, but I have it running thru the $4-$500 Dared tube preamp. It's a crude video, no Dirac, and not the warmest of tubes but for an extremely cheap preamp it's not bad. I think with these Clones it's just hit or miss, but there are some gems out there.

이번엔....마이크 음질이 멀리서 들리네요 ㅠ...ㅠ 다음번엔 조절해 주세요 ^^

Thomas, at the end you mentioned the Reisong isn't as good as the Shit Freya Plus but The Freya is more than twice good? Because now the Freya is a bit over $1200 US. The Reisong not having SMT components and being so simple is an interesting option to play with.

With my hands on experience with Marantz tube preamps, integrated amps and power amps from the 1960s, these gear are very finicky about tube quality. They sound their best with premium quality tubes - either new or NOS. For consistency and availability, I use those - sadly very expensive - current manufacture Telefunken vacuum tubes.

Regarding cap rolling in tube amps.. one VERY important thing that is often overlooked is the direction the cap is installed... "Old school tube amp rules" Tube outputs are typically very high impedance compared to transistor builds.. and caps are constructed such that there is an inside and outside foil connected to its terminals. Old school builders knew to install the caps outside foil to the lowest impedance side to act as a shield for the caps internal foil that should be connected to the highest impedance side of the circuit .. In transistor builds where the circuit impedances are much lower the cap direction normally doesn't matter . I would suggest that cap rollers should always confirm an amps sonics with this in mind.. ie roll one cap at a time listen to it installed in both directions before passing judgement on an amps sonic character. Oh yeah really like your review. And your comment regarding keep petty politics out of this.. nice.... Subscribed. 😊

I always wonder how putting a ton of electronics between a source and power amplifier could improve anything. It doesn't seem logical. Double the tubes in the Marantz should mean more places to add distortion. I have never owned a quality pre amp. Only simple or cheap tube pre amps that muddy or scratch the sound. I'll have to try a good one one day

Thomas you have to do some tube rolling on those new pre-amps. I have the Xiang Sheng 728A and I love the sound. It came originally with cheap tubes, while the Marantz 7 comes with great vintage tubes, which it is not fair comparison. I have tried 2 tubes combinations that I have loved the most, the Genalex Gold Lion Gold pin 12ax7 and NOS Mullard Blackburn 12ax7 in the Pre-Amp section and Genalex Gold Lion Gold pin 12at7 in the buffer section. I have also tried Russian and American RCAs in the 2 rectifier tubes, which is also a game changer. Changing to high quality tubes has given me a very impressive sound quality from when it was with stock tubes. Do some tube rolling and you will be impressed to what these cheaper Chinese tube Pre-amps can do. What I really like about the Chinese made pre-amps is that they even come with paper in oil capacitors, which collectors say is what gives them the distinct vintage and holographic sound quality!! Tube rolling is a magical, but expensive Hobby! I would like to see a blind test, to see if a vintage piece of equipment with worn out capacitors, can match a newer piece of gear with up to date capacitors!!!

No Politics, Good man Thomas. Thank you...⏏⏹⏺⏪▶⏩⏸

Why are there so few tube preamps in the $1k range🙁

Talking about affordable tube preamps, I was wondering if thomas or anybody has experience with Musical Paradise MP-701 MK2 or the Mapletree Audio Line 2CRM.

Actually sounds like a fun piece if you are into redesigning it with rolling tubes and Capacitors because the basic design is basically good. And it's at an affordable price. Of course this assumes your end goal is your particular sound requirements and you aren't looking to trying to achieve an unrealistic sound of a particular preamp you really wanted and can't afford, but one that is as you say, good enough and tick's the boxes on your wanted voicing.

I wish they didnt machine that slot in the front panel that makes it look like a CD player. I learned to never underestimate Chinese products. They already make the best headphones in the world (hifiman SUSVARA and the best tube headphone amp). I met the 'hifiman', super smart guy! Eventually they will even drop the weird anglo-derived brand names and go with authentic Chinese names with Chinese characters. God save us all when they learn how to make field coil highend drivers! We will all be condemned to incredibly good sounding stereos. 🤣

HEY THOMAS, IF I KNEW YOU WERE COMING I'D HAVE BAKED A CAKE.

It seems the mic on your body didn’t work only the one in the cam.

90% of the magic in vintage electronics is in the circuits and perhaps a small amount in the quality of the tubes. There was very little in the way of boutique parts. The quality of iron can also be a factor in power amps as there were a lot of skilled and knowledgeable people producing the trannies.

I wasn't that happy with the Raising A10, despite all the rage revjews. However, I done the Skunkie Electronics mod, and upgraded the caps and tubes. Now it sounds great. It's wet my appetite for DIY, and now I'm going to build a Pass Aleph J.

Be interesting to check out the fake Accuphase lol Was always curious about the replicas; Appreciate the Video!

Can't wait to hear Thomas's 15w amp!

Cayin 688R - I have this unit - I believe this is a combo 7 and 9 - can you confirm as it sounds terrific and uses the same circuitry.

The only thing that really put me off was the comment about the noise floor. This unit would be used as a control center for a pair of powered speakers and a subwoofer (the powered speakers don't have subwoofer output) so anything other than an inky-black noise floor is going to have a significant knock-on effect. Is there a mod to help with that part, and/or is there a better tube preamp out there for my application? All I need is two line-level analog inputs and two, simultaneously functioning, attenuated line-level outputs.

This thumbnail question is one i'd always wondered about when I first saw.. (what looked like a more simple & cheaper build than this 1) ..of a Chinese made pre-amp which claimed to be a 'Cloned circuit' of the Marantz-7 pre' for sale on eBay 10'ish yrs' ago. And I remember later seeing claimed clones.. (circuits, not chasis) ..of revered expensive power-amps like Dartzeeling(sp'?) & even once, a Krell KSA-50, tho as clones, none looked like the originals inside on checking net' pics, esp' transformer size on the not- Krell which originally had 2 huge 1'Kva transformers, 1 per channel which gave the original 50'watter great current delivery for tough loads, like my ex' s/h bought 80's Apogee Scintillas with their infamous amp-destroying 0.7'Ohm dip at the lowest frequencies, few amps could handle them & I bet the Cloned Krell I saw couldn't either, with it's relatively (to Krell's) tiny formers. Very interesting video on 'inspired' & near-clones, i thought. And I thought the test track sounded well good, spacious

Man we were just getting to the high end capacitor swapping and then the video ended😢

My latest Galion Channel tube rolling video: ru-vid.com/video/%D0%B2%D0%B8%D0%B4%D0%B5%D0%BE-jvst-66-mq8.html Get a HIFI Mug at www.youtube.com/@ThomasAndStereo/store Non-affiliated link: www.china-hifi-audio.com/reisong-tube-amplifier-boyuurange-audio-c-48/boyuurange-q6-tube-12ax7-preamplifier-marantz-7-m7-circuit-preamp-reisong-p-1349?zenid=1equ6u06lh1gdmd4hugkqsadl7 www.amazon.ca/gp/product/B08YCX2PRL www.amazon.com/gp/product/B08YCX2PRL

Very interesting!! Thank you, Thomas!

i have 728a preamp with Tungsol 12AT7 6201 tubes in the rear, and for the front Electro-Harmonix 12au7. very nice sounding preamp use it with vincent sp-331 power-amp i have no dac in the system. tubes rolling really help the sound. This peamp really sound nice. Changing tubes is the key.

I try to avoid tube rectifiers, I prefer solid state ones. I find that tube rectifiers add a bit of "shag" that makes things a bit dull and muddy...

Hey Thomas Just wanted to say Thanks so much for all your wonderful reviews! This one is great and very informative in an easily understandable way. Awesome!

Does not sound like a Schiite Freya meaning Freya is better or worse?

Great video Thomas. I’ve been very curious about ChiFi for a while now. I’ve dabbled in some cables with good results but I’m still hesitant to leap into components. The burning question I have as I’m certain many others who watch your channel will probably back me on this “what is an outstanding pre amp and power amp package sub $1000 per component that trumps brands many times their price?” It’s a minefield of potential mistakes navigating ChiFi and a pointed review of some outstanding components would be most welcome by budding audiophiles on a tight budget.

It is possible to make a much better sounding M7 inspired pre-amp today, and some of the Ali versions can be made to sound very good. Back in the day a frequency response of 50 - 10 KHz was considered very good, and the coupling caps reflected that. You could filter some hiss and some rumble out of the circuit by using too small values by today's standard. Some of the Ali boards have real audio caps in the signal chain - much higher quality than the shown new amp. And some of them have regulated DC for both HT and heaters, which gives a higher noise floor. By the way it is NOT possible to exchange a rectifier tube for a 6V6. A rectifier tube is what it says, and a 6V6 is an output tube. Rectifier tubes run on 5v AC for heaters and 6V6 with 6,3v AC, and the pin out and the inner workings are very different. It is possible to build a rectifier circuit with a 6V6, but that is completely different. A real bad thing about the original one is that people apparently at the time wanted a very high gain mic input, and that defined the overall design of the gain structure in the amp, that is way out. The original used 12AX7, that have a theoretical amplification factor of 100 times, but in real life probably about closer to 60 times. There are 2 serial amplification stages and a cathode follower. That means a total amplification of 60 x 60 x 0,95 or so = 3420 times when not using negative feedback, and what we need today is about 5 - 7 times. What to do to make it work today then? The bad way is to use a super heavy negative FB. That does not support a good sound, It gets lifeless and uninteresting. Is there at way to fix that? Yes, use some better quality tubes with lower amplification factor, and use less negative FB. It sound very good with ECC82 / E82CC / E182CC and 5687 - last number best quality, and the reduce the negative FB, by using a higher value FB resistor from V2 anode (after the coupling cap) to V1 cathode. My Ali board came with a 56K resistor, and I think I used a 220K, but I don´t remember. The good thing about the design is that the cathode followers give a very low output impedance, which means it can work with almost any power amp and longer cables. The sound is not exactly neutral, it gives a little tube flavor, without being too much. It is easy to test: input a signal from a signal generator of for instance 0.3 mV RMS (if you have a good DMM that can show RMS) or 1v P/P (if you have a cheaper DMM) and measure the output. It should be around 5 - 7 times higher. But be sure that both figures are either RMS or P/P (Peak to Peak). My board just needed a 220v / 14v AC secondary output. And Viola (That´s French 🙂) you have a very good tube pre-amp, for very few bucks. Feel free to share your experience.

Funny that you bring the topic up when I'm considering the Pass Labs momo block clones.

Thomas, how does the ModWright LS-100 compare to the Marantz 7?

Hello, I just purchased a Reisong Q6 from China HiFi. I'm about to order a JJ 6V6 S Power Vacuum Tube. "S" is written on the tube. Do the tube pins fit in the Q6? Is that correct? Thank you sir for your excellent video.

Great channel. Love your work!

Hi Thomas I very much enjoy your channel. I’m haunted by your theme music at the end of each video. Could you post the artists’ names somewhere as a “sticky”. Regards!

preamp without phono stage?

Thomas, Thanks for sharing! So odd. I was browsing on Amazon and saw this preamp. Then I see your recent video. I'd be out just because of it not having a remote:):)

12AX7 is not good in Line-stage preamp

If these companies were based in the U.S. and releasing their "inspired by" products, would they be sued?

Marantz 7 use parts available during the time, not exactly audiophile approved $$$$ parts. Marantz 7 use Solid state rectifier. Audio research in general sounds like solid state amp.

6v6 as rectifier?

Interesting. I probably couldn't tell the difference, I'm just not that discerning. I use the 7 with a 8b but not often. I recently got a 7T and haven't hooked it up yet. With my ears, I think my mac mini output vis usb to a pair of Klipsch R51s is more than enough for 90% of my listening.

Can't beat the vintage sound (Because no digital equipment helps) designer engineer use all pure analog and human ear to tune the sound....

1. “Fake” means something looks identical, but does not match specs (can be identical or different inside). 2. Schematics are copyright free, except some patented stages. If one took a differential pair there is nothing special there. Because he learned a differential pair at high school. Anybody can use the same differential pair. Some unusual negative feedback configuration can be patented. But in most cases hi-fi/hi-end devises use simple architecture and expensive components. So, there is no problem to copy that. A price will be higher ;) I have no idea what is that piece of metal, but the title forced me to write this comment. Please, be more precise.

Hi ,Thomas I greatly appreaciate your channel , your humor and all that. Just wondering if you have heard Ohm speakers before? Also, would you consider coming to show off your new amp at the Florida Audio Expo I think its in Feb. in Tampa. I would really like to meet you and hear your amp. I'm looking to up grade my electronics. Besides that it would be a great chance to take your family on a little vacation. it would be great to get Jay to come also. Merry Chrismas and Happy New Year!

to me, it's a waste of time with these M7 clone. yea. the sound can be exact replica but what abt the equalizer or the aesthetic? rather to pay 2 to 3k for an exact quality clone if i cant get hold of a stock m7. my opinion.

Your voice is recorded very poorly in this video.. watching this video through my phone, i need extra superpower to listen. Makes me hungry and want to eat noodle 😁

Some of the Chinese market sellers use good quality parts and you get great sound. Crack open some of the good Chinese power amps and they look pretty familiar....

None of the Chinese gear comes with coupling caps that are in the league of the best vintage gear. Another consideration is how much time has the M7 had to burn in those caps vs the out of the box Q6. The volume pot that in in most ChiFi is a fake alps and is not in the same league in any way. The circuit can be identical but like in the famous Audio Note gear, it all comes down to the parts implemented.

I nearly dropped my dinner when you brought out your friend's Marantz 7. Beautiful!

With many combinations of tubes and capacitors, a more pleasing sound may be able to be achieved for the listener. The light is not bad. Nice that it's adjustable. Could look cool in the dark. Being a preamplifier, a bass and treble control should be standard and, dare I say it, a loudness button for lower level listening. It would round out the sound nicely when it's needed. Price is attractive but it needs tone controls.

I think I am getting old. I can’t hear you clearly even I turn up my volume 😂😂

Since the seventh let me anymore why did they just copy it completely

THANKS THOMAS,FOR THE TRUTH WITHOUT THE POLITICS 😊 …IN your audiophile journey,with our audiophile buddies 🤗💚💚💚

Again that 15W Galion amp. When are you going to reveal more details?

👍

You always make me head off to the China HiFi web page!

Try the NAIM NAP250 from Ali express. See how it goes next to the 10x the cost real thing.

Try a music first transformer pre. Amazing

Brilliant video. Thanks

Thanks for a very entertaining video, you are the best! 😄👍

Thomas: an enterprising person might be able to offer upgrade kits for some of these better Chinese models as GR does for speakers

That has to be Mr kanta on the left

We should start with the fact that the original marantz 7 sounds terrible so it can only get worse.

Thomas & Home Baking 😁

Mp-301?

I am suspicious of these devices which are clones made in China. I bought a replica Quad 34, and it went up in smoke a few hours after I started it up. It looked very good and the quality seemed to be there, but unfortunately it wasn't.

Did I understand correctly that the Q6 is also not as good as the Schiit Freya?

I make a great cheesecake. I start with cheddar, grilled beef patties, mayo, yikes! I’m thinking of summer already.

Awesome content and I like your point of view. I also gave your video a like. Just to point out, for a audio channel I will point out that your microphone audio that you use in this video has terrible audio quality.... I'm not trying to be mean here, just a tip to improve your content. Have a great day buddy.

Nice to see a communique from you again Mr Galion. Merry Christmas to everyone 🙏

It's replica,not fake

If components work within the range changing them is nonsense.

Hi Thomas. What price range your upcoming class A is gona be?

Ok, now I am confused. About a year ago, I baught this preamp, with upgraded clarity caps, and put the best nos tubes in it. I was hoping to get some tube magic from my yamaha AS-2000 amplifier. Long story short, the Reisong made the music sound very bad. I tried changing tubes. Totally lifeless, cold and no soundstage. I just came from a Line Magnetic 805ia with nos tubes, so I knew a little about how tube amplifiers was supposed to sound (for me that is). The pre in the yamaha AS-2000 was just miles better than the Reisong. I sold the Reisong. Maybe they upgraded it since then (maybe 2 years ago). Since then I got a used 500 usd Consonance tube pre and a shiit Vidar, and now I have tube magic and enough power. I am sorry, but the Reisong is the worst audio equipment I have ever purchased.

Now I want cheesecake !!!!

You ask the question can a fake be as good as the original? I can guarantee that the generic medication you have probably taken was as effective as the original brand name drug. In the pharmaceutical business clones are called “bio-similars!”

I hate fakes in general !

Bottom line. Even if you’re remotely consider an “audiophile”…Don’t ever support knock-offs.

Based on your description of the sound (such as "does not sound like Freya), Thomas, a preamp of this caliber doesn't seem to be worth $500. My $130 Parasound Zpre2 could easily outperform it. Alternatively, with an additional $350, one could purchase the Freya+. You should emphasize the sound quality first, and if it rivals the Freya, then discuss the price point and its value proposition. I believe true audiophiles, who are your target audience, won't purchase a subpar product solely based on its price point.

Your question is a political one, unless you are a copimist like me, in which case it is a spiritual one and the answer is simple, copying is not unethical, it is the most sacred thing. That being so, you insulted every copimist with what you said in this video. Don't worry, we're very easy going and I'm sure you didn't mean to insult anyone's religion. Nevertheless, you might as well have said, Jesus and Mohamed are unethical... Ctrl + C & Ctrl + V forever. ;)

$500... man, that's like 75% cheaper than my speaker cables... crazy

I bought this preamp it's OK worked well with my class d mono blocks and magnapan lrs + as Thomas freind had but seemed to have a humming noise coming through speakers I then bought st audio preamp clone of jadis jp200 an extra £100 but a good bit better more refined with more realistic smoother voices better bass have not changed any tubes yet, great channel Thomas.

Your body mic is pointed over your shoulder - no wonder the sound is soft and diffuse, you are hard to understand.

Can we get a review of the Reisong A60 model that came out recently??