Interesting review but i am left wondering whether the head angle biased the performance. If you put this fork on a more old school geometry bike with a steeper head angle, I think it might act better. Seb has mentioned before that shorter bikes benefited more from shorter offset forks than longer slack bikes.
Great review, I'm not sure how I feel about the Trust fork, it's definitely interesting. But one question, if a linkage fork would be better, wouldn't motorcycles have been using them years ago?
I wonder if a telescopic fork could be tweaked to include a short-travel linkage that soaked up the small chattery rocks while the telescoping shock took up the bigger hits as the small linkage bottomed out.
It must be really difficult to review a product like this. The company invest a lot of time and money to try and further the industry and when it sometimes doesn’t quite work, constructive feedback and concise reviews like this are essential. Well done 👍
This was one of the best reviews I have seen of these forks. I don't care about all the marketing BS, and I want these new products to succeed, but they have to provide a real benefit other than just being new and different. With regards to the axle path, I would have liked if the reviewer gave an idea of what axle path he would want to try out.
I hope Trust don't get the hump just because you've made an utterly professional and unbiased review. (Good to see in an age of endless paid promotional videos). They'd do well to listen to you as you've always shown so much credible knowledge and bike handling skills on previous BR videos. I am sure linkage forks can be made to work eventually. Just think how terrible telescopic forks once used to be! Nice one Seb.
Seb, your reviews are amazing! Bought a lyric last year after your reviews, loved it. Started riding wider tyres after your extensive comparison, loved it.
I always enjoy Seb's reviews and take on things, specially on the more technical side. Although I cannot afford Trust fork, I commend them and the people buying from them for pushing things forward. I hope all this constructive criticism can be heard and assimilated to better the linkage fork concept.
The best review hands down as always. Not repeating the marketing talking points but properly explaining pros and cons... and I’ll stay happy with my Lyrik. 👍👍👍
A very honest and good review. I noticed that some of the people on social media that really like this fork, are also the ones that sell it, so a nice "independent" review is refreshing! Thanks!
Best MTB video journalist!!! Offers a solid objective review with well explained details that go beyond any other. Thank you for the great work! Also, I loved the plus tire rolling resistance test.
Very good detailed review. I think the final comment about the decades of development that telescopic forks have had is important and also to add that when telescopic forks first appeared we had nothing to compare them with other than rigid forks. Its possible that telescopic forks just are the best option at the front even with their inherent issues, and on the whole motorcycles road and racing still use telescopic forks and you would have thought other options would have appeared in larger numbers, if they were better. Equally some have said that telescopic forks have just about gone as far as they can so maybe if there is any major improvements to be developed in front suspension it's going to have to come from a new design of fork such as these. I guess only time will tell.
Peter Cook there was more options of forks than rigid and telescopic. Not in bicycle industry exactly but in motorcycle. And many forks have been tried for bicycles. Bikes had to get the best option for suspension. And that was simply telescopic. And now decades of improvement it's just simply hard to beat.
Really great balanced review. As you say, linkage forks have a great potential advantage- it’ll be interesting to see what linkage forks look like in a few generations time.
A very thorough, balanced and considered review Seb! I've never tried this fork, and at that price I was never likely to, but I do like the idea. I think I'll just stick to traditional air or coil ; proven technology
have to say I first off like the futuristic, alien look of the fork. second, engineers have to figure out how both wheels can work in harmony, with axle paths that are not straight, which Seb mentioned - because this fork is a separate entity, not meant to work in harmony with rear linkage. I think that harmony I mentioned, will be the key to get the best performance out if the linkage forks. that said, I recently discovered Rocksled, the guy who has his go at making DIY linkage forks, but with coil shock. he openly admits he is not an engineer, but an avid enthusiast, playing with CAD, making stuff happen. would be really really cool for BikeRadar to work with the guy to make something really unique, performing wise... Seb's knowledge would make that thing perfect, I'm pretty sure.
Brilliant test. I've had a couple of linkage forks back in the day and though the Marin seemed laterally stiff it did at times feel as if one was on top of the front wheel. Never wore out though.
I wonder if Trust thought about guys like this testing it out first? In other words, race proven, these guys can shred. This isn't the 90s anymore. Today's riders are riding stuff that's not only; sketchy, gnarly, fast but at a different level. Just look at MTB video of the elite 15- 20 years ago. Its pretty entertaining. It looks like the are riding with a fishbowl as a second rider trying not to spill the water.
I have demo'd the shorter travel version of this fork and I also commented to one of the guys behind it that I found it harsh in the initial part of the travel and over chatter. I did appreciate the way it didnt dive though and didn't notice it being to difficult to turn in, just felt different. I concluded that £2k price tag wasn't justified when you consider the performance of a lyrik or 36.
Thanks for a honest review. Hopefully they patented the design as it may "stop somebody else making the same mistake". Reminds me of 1979 ISDE Germany when I suffered from severe arm tendonitis because of a stupid No Dive braking system on a Enduro Motorcycle front end. But hopefully they can refine it to be as good as they hoped.
I bet trust could make a good XC fork -- high breakaway force in the horizontal movement to stabilize pedaling, but will move more readily when it's loaded up into the vertical travel. Of course, it still wouldn't be comfy, just performance oriented.
It would seem that several of the negative issues mentioned were due to the trailing aspect of the fork. My thoughts are a leading arm design with the arc of the axle path starting as true vertical and swinging up and rearward would be a possible solution.
I think that would have its own problems (poor compliance to square edge hits at the start of the travel, front-centre that suddenly gets shorter as you approach bottom-out, higher offset mid-travel probably isn't ideal). I think the best solution so far is the Structure SCW1. It uses longer links to have a much straighter axle path (sort of like telescopic), but with reduced friction and dive.
i thought the title for "worst dressed mtb journalist" went to jack and joe for their "hopeless homeless attire" as some commenters suggested. really though, i think your conclusion was fair in that a different axlepath could be reap more benefits. does the majority of rearward axle travel seem to be negated by the sag you'd set the fork up with? and with a different axlepath, does sag have the same implications? Keep up the great content guys!
Linkage forks aren’t new! But they used to put all the mechanics up around the top tube. Horst even had his AMP B4 bike, which I thought was the coolest when I was younger. Still, there hasn’t been the same continuous development over the years, which is what you were getting at. I think these have a lot more room to get better over time, just as we’ve seen different rear suspension designs, we’ll see new fork linkage designs as well.
One area where Trust dropped the ball for me was in not providing the one I believe most everyone would want; a 150mm version. - The shorter travel 130mm *Message* was too short for my 135mm rear travel Switchblade, the 178mm *Shout* too long, or I'd have been riding a 150mm Trust *Clearly* these last 6 or so months, if only one had existed.
pain using the air shocks, honestly i've been around MTB's since the early 90's we replaced elastomers (remember those) with coil springs in many forks (rock shox, pace, manitou) yes a bit heavier but better action and just go out and ride like linkage forks since the times i tried the ones fitted to Pro-Flex bikes back in the day, is there lessons to be learned???, could the past aid the ride of the future
Seb Stott , I m sure it does! It was just a stupid joke! Regarding serious and honest reviews I always prefer THIS channel and Guy Kesteven’s feedback! Cheers
My colleague demoed one on a Pivot and came to a very similar conclusion in his one morning ride. I'm pleased to see that his opinion was pretty accurate. I think Dave Weagle is treated like a demigod, which is unwarranted, especially if it's the axle path that is probably the main issue with this unit.
Excellent review. I like that they're trying something different, however it starting off at double the price and being heavier it would have to be *significantly* better performing to even start to consider, which unfortunately it is not.
Linkage forks have always struggled to provide all the benefits that telescopic forks do. I think the ideas have some merit, but I also think the frontier that needs to be explored and refined first is damping. Actual good or custom damping with compression and rebound circuits that can flow enough oil on fast hits and suck to the ground for the slower stuff. Once you ride something like this, you realize that you can have amazing stability without it feeling like a jackhammer...The jackhammer result is usually from increasing compression damping on OEM products. Then there's rebound, being able to adjust LSR and having the HSR fast enough that you can run that LSR real slow. Then you get amazing track that seems to cling to off-camber rough sections like magic and the front end isn't pitching up and down all the time due to the increased stability. This is where manufacturers need to spend their money first IMO. For $2700, those trust forks should be coming with full on custom valving with all the bells and whistles (LSR, user-revalvable HSR, HSC and HSC/LSC adjustments). That all said, make a fat-bike version of the Shout and I'll get one, as large-tire options are limited in this niche and the general design of the Trust really lends itself to that niche.
Did you guys review the motion ride e18? I love mine, a few small flaws that will apparently be fixed this year (mine was a Kickstarter early model) amazing small bump performance (chatter is almost non existent) it give you lots of confidence cornering and descending. It's better than my fox 36 with push coil kit.
Sounds like the axle path needs fine tuning and the pivots need to be a bit beefier. With slacker head angles, I'd bet that linkage forks will gain popularity once they figure out some sort of sweet spot for the axle path, mass produce them and make them a bit cheaper...
Kudos for experimenting with convention. HOWEVER, twice the price compared to a top end, lower weight, easier to setup, easier to maintain, mechanically less complex, better all around performing fork... I wouldn’t Trust the long term prospects of my job at that company
Dude, I really believe in that linkage fork - & wish I could have\afford one - even though it may still needs tweaking......especially since I have ridden in a while, which will aid in my adjusting to it... I'm surprised it's not stiff enough though... O.O
on the one hand i appreciate companies doing RnD and coming up with revolutionary products. At the same time having watched this informative break down I feel like its double price of top end regular forks while it is... heavier, mostly literally slower, hard to predict, hard to steer, less stiff... I mean, it does not even need to be compared to top of the line lyrik, you may as well say it performs worse than any 300$ fork. No racer wants this, no amateur wants to use it. which makes it kinda a failed attempt.
Ok for 1 linkage forks were around in the 90 , USE SUB, Girving Leading linkage fork, And the AMP linkage fork fork. there are probably more. 2 I think that the trust fork would suit a hardtail more (but journalists seem to think that they are only for xc racers and poor people) As the head angle changes so much. So why not do that?
When (not if!!!) one of the pivot axles in that thing breaks by fatigue, you’re gonna have a really bad day. One of the great things about telescoping forks is they’re pretty safe-when something internal breaks, the bike still rides.
“... this is designed to have something called anti-dive...” I’m not sure that this is correct. I thought the designers said they were NOT concerned with brake dive, but primarily with the effects of the steeping of the effective head tube angle under compression?
It does indeed have a significant amount of anti-dive, particularly towards the end of the travel (where you want it most). Compared to a telescopic fork, it compresses noticeably less under braking.
Seb Stott: that was not the point I was making. The video suggested that one of the design goals was to reduce brake dive. That is not true, according to my understanding. The goal was (partly) to isolate the handling of the bike from the effects of fork compression.
@@azizuladnan2389 It is designed to both reduce brake dive and to somewhat compensate for the reduction of trail that otherwise happens under brake dive.
I agree with the comment re 25 years R&D,. My first shocks were in 1995, Judys, red elastomers and a plastic oil damper tube on one leg. Slightly better than a rigid fork.
In the motorcycle world there have been numerous attempts to produce alternative suspension, but none have made it into high production (except perhaps the Honda Cub).
Trailing linkage forks are something motorcycle designers have experimenting with since before the 1920s, e.g. BMW R32. However, they were rapidly superseded in most cases by either leading link or conventional forks. The only place in the motorcycle world where they're still successfully used is in scooters (kinematics make sense for the small wheels, styling and keeping costs low). I hope I'm wrong, but what is it about Trust's design that makes their trailing link suspension designs any better than that what after a century or so of development effort and cost advantages, the motorcycle industry only thinks is a good fit for cheap low speed urban vehicles?
I looked at one up close 2 days ago and rode the bike a little bit up and down the road. Heaps of lateral flex! And it felt so weird to bunny hop like I couldn’t get the front off the ground.
I know there's usually a compromise for everything you buy, but for 2600ish Canadian dollars, you would really want something that is absolutely perfect.
Linkage forks are no-doubt the future. But not stuff like the Shout. The best ones will hopefully use a rear shock like that homemade one from Pinkbike. Would be amazing if the frame comes with the linkage fork, you just choose which shock to put in. So many possibilities.
Love the idea, but what many forget when making dumb blanket statements like: "telescopic will always be better" is, that they compare telescopic forks that have existed for 100 years and are produced by billion dollar companies with something completely new out of someones garage. The fact that they managed to make a good fork with the little resources and experiences they have is already impressive af.
very interesting but if someone forks out for it it will take time to get used to it, also to me it seems you need a whole bike design around fork like that to get a full benefit
On the basis that the back end of a bike doesn't have telescopic legs, so why does the front - good point. But the back doesn't have to twist and steer. If they can refine this then in theory it would be great, but the cost of production is always going to be lethal with that number of moving parts.
I guess the way to go could be even slacker head angle and a vertical (coil shock) component in a telescopic fork, the vertical component would take the minor bumps and have a little anti-dive, while the rest of it soaks deeper hits.. the difficulty is managing the transition from the linkage to the telescopic. that bunny hop looks horrible :P Design engineering is so much fun when you don't understand anything of it...
this review was interesting because its the exact opposite of what i have read elsewhere. not saying you are wrong, or lying, but that this is interesting.
As an early adopter in MTBing and one who owned a WHYTE "Ugly Robot Dog" PRESTON I am intrigued by this but its a marketing nightmare! It needs to be at least the same price as the very dialled competitors before anyone is going to be considering it and/or win a few World Cups races
I don't think this fork is for me but I'm not against it anymore, I'd like to try an upsidedown fork one day, what are the pros and cons, I'm guessing there is more done as most companies aren't making them Edit: after finishing the video I'm now completely against this again
I know this is 3 years old, but after one ride maybe a few more he makes all detrimental assessments over a superior fork design, not once does he mention the stiffness against lateral flex and improved steering dynamics, as well as the lack of friction losses a telescopic fork has. I have run a Stout for 3 years and I find it sufficiently superior to a telescopic fork that though the price is high the fork is well worth it. In those 3 years, there have been no failures and very little maintenance required. You learn to use the forks' superior design and ride kinematics. I have sent the air shocks in for annual rebuild and some expert tuning for my weight and riding style. It's too bad that COVID circumstance killed the company. (by the way, I did not pay $1900 for my Stout fork)..
