"Not that far off for a 20 year board", so wait, you were close to the speed of a state of the art modern board after you rode the mistral board for like what, one hour? That sounds pretty good actually.
I had this very board in my garage for decads and could not sell it. Nobody wanted to buy it. With the help and reference of this video I could finally sell it...hahaha. Thanks for that Maciek!
Yassss. Brilliant video Maciek. We all love our modern kit whether wave, slalom or freestyle but for those of us who used to sail in the olden days 🤣 it’s cool to compare the old kit to new. Great video showing real sailing and real comparison - nice edit too. All my kit is wave gear but I recently bought an F2 Sputnik 275 World Cup Edition paired with an old 6.5 F2 Arrows race sail. Plan is to take them for a blast somewhere flat and see how fast we can get the Sputnik to go. More videos like this please dude. 🤙🤙
Almost all boards of that era had pads. The SLE was, however, something altogether different. I suspect the aim was ultimate in lightness. I never saw one with added pads.
Just the past couple of days, it was really windy (25-30+) out here on the south shore of Oahu, so I decided to take out the old, old-school board that I'd last used at the Gorge 14 years ago. It's about 10 litres less volume and much narrower than anything I'd been sailing out here in Hawaii, so I wasn't sure what would happen. It was indeed a struggle to get it out to the windline, but once I was out there, it sailed really nice. I was able to keep control of it much easier in those high-wind bumpy conditions than any other board I have, (and I have five, two of which are sitting in the garage collecting dust.) I blew some jibes, but at my age (63) I don't really care and don't fight it any more if things go wonky. i had tons of fun, which at this point is all that really matters. This shaper, Brian Hinde, hasn't changed his design much in 35 years of shaping boards, and always had a reputation for building fast, tough but easy to sail boards. Still true. It will go with me when I go to Maui sometime once we're past these covid travel restrictions. I don't care how old it makes me look.
Yeah I sailed my F2 Sputnik the other day in choppy conditions and I have to say. Cutting through chop was so much nicer than my newer stuff. The old narrow design just slices - it's actually quite relaxing. But yeah not so much fun in the turns and getting up to speed.
I'm 59 now, I wont need to get any new boards because I have a Mistral "New Malibu". I am willing to try new stuff but I'm hardwired for 80's stuff. Sailed mostly in South Florida. Always dreamed of the more windy spots. Some people use to say that Fort Poerce was the best surfsailing spot on the east coast. I will be starting back up now that my kids are upper teenage years. Going to Florida this summer, should be pretty interesting to see their faces when dad steps on it in a good breeze....
@@MaciekRutkowski With the c/e of modern sails further forward I would suggest the mast-base right to the back of the slot. I sail my Bic Electric Rock like this with more modern sails and it goes really well - and embarasses younger chaps on new kit a few times.
Maciek, you should have a look at a funboard from the mid 80s, from the french manufacturer BIC. It's design is quite similar to your modern gear. It was quite popular under very young surfers back then, but the large board manufacturers did not notice the advantages in agility and good nature of that design, so far ahead of it's time. So they needed at least 25 years to achieve a board design, which mainly already existed in the mid 80s in the BIC funboard.
I still remember trying out a mates (he was a brilliant windsurfer) short BIC, i think it was a 276. Frightened me to death with its speed and was hard to control.
Interesting to see u flat out burn the new boards snd I think ur main complaint was the gybe, but looked like u tried to pivot which stalled it and u were not leaning so forward to commit t rail at the point in the video. Any board would stall in a pivot but less so if more tail volume. For me take away is u won with both so either ur way better than ur race buddies or it makes no difference new or old apart from gybe ease which U clearly got the hang of on the old board...And all at a fraction of the cost.
Nice video. I was going to try out an old 275cm freeride and 4 cam sail from 1996 but couldn't even get the cams to stay on the mast whilst rigging up. I gave up. I then remembered why I didnt use that sail much. Now the 275cm board wont even fit in my current van. I guess the bottom shape of the Mistral is a lot flatter. Did you look at the speed for the alpha? 500m with a gybe. I bet that showed up a large difference than top speed.
A good balanced overview I think you’ve achieved here...but one thing I’d like to say... cost of gear today is beyond too many young people’s reach, whereas, they can pick up for peanuts old stuff that they should be able to learn on plenty well enough as stepping stones to more expensive equipment later! I’m 73 and started on cheap kit at the age of 40, and by 45 I was sailing top spots around the world on the sort of gear you show in your video, with, I may add , sails,masts,etc, that worked in perfect harmony with the boards of that era too! So come on good man...encourage people to buy good old kit to start up on and have fun, just like we did back then!? ATB..Nigel
I am 37 and wanting to try this again after 23 years of doing with school in Spain. I absolutely LOVED IT but never persuade it…….and after reading your comment IM GOING FOR OT THIS SUMMER 🤙🏻🤙🏻🤙🏻
frankie carlton It’s for the real deal! Kite surfers in the main cannot do it, so ignore them and enjoy! I’m 75 this year and I’m determined to go again this summer! Can’t wait! One of the most enjoyable activities of my whole life! Cheers, enjoy!
frankie carlton Brilliant, the fun you will have in the near and long term can’t be overstated! No idea where you are, and whether on lake or sea, either way, take care, stay safe and never go out to sea in an offshore wind ! ATB Cheers
not a PWA level - hahaha, local boys will not like it.. excellent job as always, fun to watch. see you around one day, btw. carpenter has one carbon slalom beauty from 90-ties to give it a go..
Great content Maciek! I quit windsurfing in the late 90's. Last board was a 9ft 105l, 54cm wide, super hard rails, straps way out on the rails combined with a 6 cam deep luff sleeve Hot sails. The board when powered was fast as hell and incredible downwind until you caught a rail. Never bailed that hard in my life. Broke 2 booms in one season and almost drowned trying to waterstart that sail. Been starting back into the sport and really appreciate content like this to help understand what the improvements are or how much the gap is. Your 90 sail video was especially helpful.
at 6:50 is this the forgiveness of a modern sail in overpowered conditions (looking at the top)? I really need to try out a modern board. These guys seem to have it way easy!
I have the exact same board and still ride it on flat days. Jibing is really tricky , you have to push the rail gently at start till it bites and then apply pressure. Also planning needs to be powered up due to the thin tail. It is also a bit dangerous on the ankles you can easily twist then if not careful.
Cool stuff Maciek, your experiment replies a big question I still had about "evolution" in windsurfing, with a little old school training and ideal conditions it looks like you would beat a modern field with a 1999 quiver !
Love your work, this was a great idea and you did a fair test with gps numbers, etc. Camera man was great with those zoomed in shots too. Good to see more tests/footage like this.
Very interesting experiment. The last time I bought a true slalom board was an RRD in 1997, I remember it was an absolute bitch to gybe, but the extra length meant it "ironed" chop pretty well. However, I have not ridden a modern one, so in no position to compare. Sails of today are also really different to back then
Same for me, my last slalom was a 276 Sputnik in 1998ish, I remember the way to keep the rail during the gybe was to pull the clew almost against the wind, which then caused the board to carve deep into the sea, and by contrast releasing the hand next to the mast that was at some point parallel to the water. That was called a "laydown gybe". The stronger the wind the choppier the sea, the harder you had to pull on the back hand...these were the days....
What interests me most about this is that boards have clearly got easier to sail as well as faster. I've still got all my old 90s gear but haven't used it for about a decade. Maybe I ought to invest in some newer gear. When I saw where windsurfing was going in the early noughties (freeride, softer rails etc) I thought it was a backlash against the 90s dedicated slalom boards that so few could gybe without swimming and boards had been detuned speed wise for ease of use. Some of us invested a great deal of effort learning how to lay down gybe those old boards, so wanted to keep sailing the old gear we knew. I also wonder if there was a period in the early noughties when a new slalom board would be slower than your last one due to the marketing influence- manufacturers realising they must make the sport easier and broaden the appeal? But interesting to see that the kit has now overtaken completely in both pleasure of use and speed.
Great video mate! I almost forgot how technical were old slalom boards, still missing my old Copello red line slalom board.... Keep rocking, great Channel!
Hi Maciek, very good idea! I remember the board... I had a SLE 290... a real rocket... very light, ultra fast, monster hard feeling on choppy conditions, very sharp grip on the deck... hard but good work to sail fast:-)
One downvote by the guy who refuses to upgrade his Mistral. Great video - you at that first jibe mark was everybody in the 90s. I had a mid 90s slalom board and it set back my jibes 5 years.
@@MaciekRutkowski Oh, I wasn't that guy! Ha Ha. I upgraded a long time ago and very happy for it. You always get my upvotes. btw, love your interview style, too.
This shows that if you just want some flat water lake blasting and pure fun you could easily get that on a very cheap secondhand board from eBay. In the UK they sell for under £100 quite often.
Wonderful video. Really nice. I'd love to have your impressions about the full 90's equipment. For my part, I windsurfed in the 90's, then stopped and picked it up 2 years ago. Everything seems so incredibly easier. Before, the boards would hit the chop so much harder. And the wave sails were so unstable. Sailing now feels like sitting on the sofa compared to the time. Anyway. Brilliant video.
Pads actually started showing up in the late 80s, first as an add-on, later as standard equipment. I believe the slalom boards were the last ones to get them, I don't really remember if my RRD proto from -95 had them but I think so. My guess is that the SLE came without pads just to save a few grams, weight was a big selling point back then.
Nice video, however by 1996 there were much better board than that Mistral SLE with soft pads and other features, like the F2 Axxis or the Ride. I think that was one of the last mistral built before Robbie Naish step into the door to make better quality stuff.
perfect comparison!! I pissed off many users with brand new board because of your video. Especially when I overtake them with my 24year old Mistral Flow 103l :-) What is speed difference between Invictus and SLE?Did you say 0,5 or 1,5knt? What about mast comparison?I tried 30% and 100% carbon mast in slalom sail with same speed..have you ever tried it?thx
Rewa? :) Nie no ta deska to już było coś...spróbuj starą ciężką alohe ;P ale fakt chyba musiałaby być deska jeszcze kilka lat świeższa i freestyle wave
So, these old boars were fast, but much harder to gibe? Perhaps you should try some old Tiga 260 Slalom. It jibes much besser, than the Mistral. The Tiga was the best highwind slalomboard of the 80s and 90s. Only problem: New sails don't fit to it, because of the position of the mast.
Super video! It would be a great idea indeed to get a full rig from the nineties and try it, maybe not in competition, but as a comparison test. The fins, wishbones masts and most importantly the sails will be sooo different. That would be extremely interesting. I am under the impression that, unlike many autosport fans, young windsurfers are not so much in touch with the past. A test with a full oldskool rig without anything modern on it would open many youngster’s eyes an even have some educational value. Great job! Go for it man!
well, you want to control ''old school u wonna call it'' designedboard... there's the room for error reg. completely fine trimming rigg/board consequently definitely smaller.... wonna enjoy such ''narrow'' racer ? got to use a curved simmerfin even with a small slot or maybe with supersmall forfin ...you wouldn't have crashed..... marc heintzer north sails ,swiss champion made me the winner of slaloms , of course i even stepped down during race and changed mastfoot position to beat robby graf neil pryde, f2... 1991 ....
Now I don´t feel so bad about my old equipment in the Garage (but my wife...). Of course those modern boards are better overall, but you can be competitive, especially, when really used to it after a couple of days of adapting. I think it may be as much fun if not more when mastering the challenges in jibing it, what we did well back in the days.
Its all about familiarity with the board. The two boards gybe a bit differently. Get used to them and they are not much different. The wider boards carry a bit more speed in/out the gybe. They DON'T plane better just faster.
@@MaciekRutkowski Jego vlog jest martwy, napędzany nudnymi fiskalnymi relacjami. Twój vlog jest żywy, czerpie z twojego życia. Mam nadzieję że tak zostanie nawet jak będziesz miał kasę. Pytanie czy z klasą będziesz potrafił żyć?
Paweł Stempczyński hehe spokojnie kase na zycie mam i wydaje mi sie ze raczej klasy nie brakuje ale przydalby sie budzet jeszcze stricte na YT - na razie klade z wlasnej kielni i zobaczymy , sprawls mi to duzo funu!
Try the Chapter fibreglass boards from the early 80’s 315 pintail winger and 270 swallow tail, with Gaastra non foiled sails! Then you’ll walk in our shoes 👍🏻👍🏻👍🏻👍🏻👍🏻🤓
You're always at the front edge. You always know what kind of stuff excite windsurfing people. You easily win at this game. Very hard to find in good shape, some of most performant 90's boards were Mistral Energy, Drops 272, Copello 275, F2 Thommen 270, RRD 281....
@@MaciekRutkowski I don't know any Mistral world champion at that time. The top competitors of that time where from other brands. Would really be interesting to see a Thommen board in comparison. They were the real deal at that area.
@@schobihh2703 Hi, I have a 280 Sputnik WCE, a 275 Thommen, and a 270 sputnik (the oldest one of the three, like the 1990 version...), and I can tell they are all really fast and reliable, even though I sail them with old school sails (Gaastra slalom from circa 95, mostly, 4.4 to 6.5). I guess the Sputnik WCE shape of the middle of the 90s and this Thommen 275 are the fastest boards of these days... If M Rutkowski can try them someday, i'd like to see the result!
@@schobihh2703 More than happy, for me it's the best part of the ride, I'm working hard on those power gybes, the sail very low like if you were trying a 360. And those boards are narrow, so when you're riding fast, it's really fun to be on those needles, there is nothing like that on modern boards, even though I don't discuss the fact they're faster! Oh, and the jumps on flat water, those are real jumps, especially with high winds!
That was very interesting to follow. You probably didn't train on the gear for so long and probably didn't try different fins, different rakes, flex etc.. like with your slalom gear. To me actually the fin looked quite big for that narrow tail width, which would make jibing even more difficult. But that could be a wrong perception. So all this taking into account, I was astonished to see, that the old gear actually really did so well. So obiviously the old gear is still worth to be used and people can have a lot of fun on it. So is it worth to switch to new gear spent some 1000EUR for it? I doubt that this video will make people consider this change more than be before. It will be interesting to follow the comments and read what people say to it.
Jörg Schobi yeah somehow people think that this video says that the old board is still good, but I sail almost 300 days and year and I struggled to jibe and to do anything else then go straight basically - so is it maybe just a case of people seeing what they wanna see? 🤔🤔
@@MaciekRutkowski Yeah it has a lot to do with "people see what they want to see". I have had the disussion with some guys that they should change to long harness lines, because it is so much better. I wasn't very successfull . WRT to jibing, my experience is that many surfers just struggle to jibe. They are not capable of "lay down" pushing the rail and proper foot work. I am not convinced that jibing a new board especially much wider board, for these people without changing their technic or learning a new technic, will really be more succesfull.
In the slopes you still see guys with the skis locked together, it's hard to teach old dogs new tricks. Says me who sailed since 1991, and have finally added a waist harness to the bag, but still use just 26" lines. All rest 1 to max 1 0 years (wave and slalom kits).
Jörg Schobi yes you’re right 90% of the people that struggle its because they dont commit. But if you’re on a magic carpet that feels super comfy i think you’re more likely to commit. Also new boards need less commitment to come out of the jibe planning, they simply have better glide + more volume in the tail so not so easy to sink and stop.
Good for windsurfing that guys like you and Nico rock the oldies. It might help some people into the sport without having to spend a lot of money from day 1. In the long run, this will help the sport and the industry move forward.. keep it going Maciek!! 🤙
A Hiper Track will blow both of them away and going up wind they can just hope to get second place. Turning well yes they suck but you to far in front so it ok. Tacking nothing will keep up.
So happy to find your YT channel. I love your comparision of these new and old School boards. Please keep the content coming . P.S. Love your WIndsurfing TV podcast but Epsidoe 20 was by far and away the best one :-)
@@MaciekRutkowski My mistake, I actully meant EP 21 !! To hear about some of your struggles to get to the top was inspiring, it shows just how hard it is to be at the front of the PWA and I guess any sport. You guys have to be so proffesional just ot have a chance of doing well. I raced back in the late 80's and early 90's and had some success but with nothing like the efforts that you have gone through. Keep up the great work :-)
The biggest difference between them is how the board/fin combos work. As you say older combos make up speed narrowing the board and new ones works with more momentum on the tail because they use softer/bigger fins that gives you much more lift to fly over the water. Older boards are quite fin sensible too, it's obvious if you try a very tuned up board/fin combo it'll has better performance and feeling . It'll be interesting to test both with their respective age rigs in different conditions like flat water, mid chop and voodoo chop as well !!! BTW, if you take a look of the 90' sails you'll note how different they worked, having more powerful, light y flattish sails
It's a good thing to think about the jibe while competing ! I think the show was much better back in the 90's ! Surely I prefer a modern board, but it's a really nice job to get out on an old narrow board from then to remember how good these guys were on them ! Remember Dunckerbeck jibing those in the chop... who can do it with the same level of control ? Well done mate !
Great honest video , Maciek showed the old board as it is. Not as good as a modern one but not as total crap. Boards have not changed that much but they have. Also you can compare old boards to new ones since they can keep theirform and performance over long time. That can not be said for sails as they loose their shape with time. So it was fair to test it with a modern sail. Have change to a new wave board after 15 years without windsurfing in the waves and it is so much more easier to windsurf, that i can keep the level i had 15 years ago.
Great video. A lot of fun to see stuff like. Was racing when that board came out, just before the Drops FL10 flapper. Remember Mistral had a course edition and it complety failed against the Drops FL10. Still have a dream of trying Dunkis equipment from fx 96
Thanks for video, can you try same board with best fin and sail from that same era, the modern fin and modern sail you Used made that old board work much better. 😀
Started "Sailboarding" in 1983. Drove to Key West Florida to buy a Mistral "Tarifa" from the dealer. 10' 10" that could do it all. I would like to see that in epoxy and carbon fiber. It was a great start into the short boards of that era. That is Old School in my mind because you didn't call them Windsurfers unless the were the brand of such. Nice video. Your accent is just like the Amish down my road here in Northern New York.
@@MaciekRutkowski All good. I think you did a great video! Had so many thoughts about this old school new school stuff. I'm sure the modern stuff is great, the stuff you refer to as old school is actually my new school! My kids are teenages now and soon to be trying windsurfing as I start up again. I will be watching more videos, soon!
Cool, interesting to see how the boards stacked up against each other. The Mistral was definitely bogging down out of the gybe but still held its own. Comparing them in a race was cool. Loved it...
Bryan Gibb the only way to judge a “race machine” is in a race I believe! Was funny when I sailed alone I kinda thought it was ok, but then in the race it was clearly inferior! 😱
@@MaciekRutkowski But is it even a fair comparison? You're used to one board, you know how it works, you know the perfect setting etc. Wouldn't you have to use the board a lot longer to really find out which one is better?
stau ffap i used it quite a lot like few hours before I raced on it. My job is too feel the gear from the first run, that’s how we get quite high efficency in R&D testing a few different boards every day. But for sure it could be that I would get 2-3% more out of it after a few days of sailing it - wouldn’t be a massive difference I’m sure
Now you have to get your hand on winning custom from the nineties and compare it to both production boards. In all interviews, they said there was a huge gap in performance between custom and production. Let's see how much ? What if you could find one the board from KP's Czech/Californian shaper that contributate to defeat the terminator ???
Hey and Yeah, it is a cool board, I was surfing the SLE as limited edition in white color. Hard to turn, but speed is great and even if you loof into the wind, other boards cannot follow you.
Great test. Interesting that you can achieve such a high speed. Thank god for easier gear these days. When teaching windsurfing I want pupils to: 1) quickly move on to a size smaller 2) feel the speed 3) not use dad's old gear.
Mathijs Broersma yes the old gear is a lot harder!! I thought it was clear in the video and now I get all these messages saying people want to buy old shit cause it’s the same speed 🤦🏼♂️🤦🏼♂️🥵
When I tried a early 90's (? Npu) everyone in the Old school group said it was sooo fast. They could not have tried any sail from today. Even wave sails have the same or more power and MUCH more stability.
You just demonstrated that its mostly about the sail and the fin to go fast. The less surface of the board touching the water the better it is. These old Mistral where realy fast . You where smooking all the other guys in a straigth line.
Well these other guys have day jobs! 😁 and i think yeah i can half handle that board but for an average windsurfer thats definetely a big difference to the modern much easier design
