Holding down-back charges both Sonic Boom and Flash Kick, so Guile crouching is both optimal for his gameplay and a meme of sorts amongst Street Fighter players lol
@@pallukun It is, because it's incredibly cheap even if it is an optimal mix up. By constantly crouch blocking, it effectively enables Guile to become a very annoying zoner that also doesn't immediately crumple if you do manage to get in like a lot of zoners since he's still fully functional in close range. It effectively made the game no fun for anyone since it was a completely braindead zoning method with minimal requirements of having to think about when to use what. It turned the character into a two branch flowchart. Are they close to you? Yes -> Flash Kick No -> Sonic Boom Repeat
Small correction regarding Guile’s misinputed aerials. There is no sweetspot/sourspot because if you look closely, he’s doing a different kick. The weaker damaging one is his “Medium Kick” while the stronger one is his “Heavy Kick”. This also explains why his Flash Kick sometimes alternates between doing 16.9% and 17.6%. He’s doing two different versions of the same move, with the Heavy version doing marginally more damage and leaping higher into the air. Think of how if you tap Ken’s Shoryuken he does a regular uppercut that’s less powerful but more safe, and if you hold it he does the flaming version that’s more powerful but less safe.
@@AshZucchini8168 That's not true. Most Street Fighter games have a different set of air normals depending on whether you persom a neutral jump vs a back/forward jump.
Guile's assist trophy is a tribute solely dedicated to what Street Fighter players call "down-backing" It refers to when a player will just hold diagonally down and away from the opponent in order to charge both Sonic Boom and Flash Kick, since the directional input counts as both a down and a back input. This way, the player can camp while choosing whatever option fits their situation best - Sonic Booms for opponents that stay away, and Flash Kick when they decide to jump in with an unsafe option. Additionally, holding down and back like this also let's them block any incoming attacks, which the assist trophy also mirrors :)
@@Felipera_ That said, you can still do j.HK as an air-to-air to catch their jump, keep your opponent close, hold down-back through the jump, and start doing blockstrings into Sonics, or close HP > Flash Kick to confirm damage or whatever until you're back in zoning range.
Down-backing also allows you to crouch block as you charge, meaning opponents need to jump in or use an overhead, which is usually reactable. This further compliments his gameplan because he can anti-air jump ins with Flash Kick. Assist trophy Guile also crouch blocks and anti-airs with Flash Kick.
The guile fact is so cool. So for a quick explanation about why he is always crouching, it's because in fighting games, most charge character have both a down charge and a back charge, in this case flash kick and sonic boom. And you can charge both at the same time by holding diagonal down back. The joke here is that in sf2 projectiles were super broken, so guildes would spam it. And because the best way of avoiding projectiles is jumping above them, an anti air is a good counter against that. Now the problem is that charge anti air specials are way stronger than motion anti air special. Because you can't use them on reaction. But guile is sf2 didn't care, they spammed a broken projectile and charged the very move that counter the best way of dealing with this projectiles. Now it's possible to catch him by jumping fast on him. Forced to use the move as soon as it charge you often see miss imput. Now why there is no sonic boom miss imput, because that's easy to not do any and there is no urgency to do them.
Projectiles werent the broken thing about guile in SF2. Flashkick also wasnt used at all. The prevailing guile strat was j. Roundhouse into forward heavy for an actually inescapable throw loop because of how the frame data worked out and the fact teching throws didnt exist. Guile and dhalsim both were rush down characters despite being designed to be zoners
Just checked some of the game's code- -The "nair" is actually two different moves: ---8hkair, which is 44 frames and does 15% ---9mkair, which is 34 frames and does 12% -In addition, sonic boom is called "guileshot" and flash kick is "summersault" -Interestingly, summersault also has a light and heavy variant with the same animations, one does 28%/26%, and the other 27%/25%
The names for the "nair" also are named after the respective attacks in SF2. 8hkair is his neutral jump heavy kick, and 9mkair is his diagonal jump medium kick. For context, buttons in Street Fighter are usually shortened to an acronym, like MK for medium kick, or HP for heavy punch And some games use "numpad" notation for the directions (so 8 would be up, 2 would be down, 4 and 6 would be back and forward, respectively)
@@nfsman3452 furthermore, the numbers mean directions. look at your keyboard's numpad. 8 is straight up (neutral jump) 9 is a diagonal (up + right jump) it's a common notation in the FGC. great catch you guys!
@@nfsman3452 I like the inclusion of the 9mkair notation because it shows the Guile player has trouble consistently hitting the up direction when under pressure lol
If you play with assist trophies on, you can see in your “kills” at the menu after the match when an assist trophy gets a kill. It’s actually a very pretty logo for it too!
@@infiltrate6807 I don’t think so, considering in the game I played I killed two assist trophies but only had one assist trophy kill, and the other person killed my assist trophies twice as well but didn’t have any of the symbols at the end of the game, but I might be mistaken since it was over a week ago now
Here’s a theory about Fox jab: The broken Fox animation definitely has to do with his programmed IK (inverse kinematics), which determine how his foot reacts to slopes. They didn’t turn this off for Fox in this animation, which causes his foot to try to make contact with the ground. I’d try this with Cloud’s foot to see if it happens there too, as it also is a rapid jab that ends in a foot over the edge and has IK scripts attached.
I’ve seen the ivysaur up b vibrate on the final hit kill screen so much, I thought that was what it looked like normally! That’s so interesting that’s it’s just a slowed down thing
Here's a potential explanation for the missinput chance only happening when you're jumping; since Flash Kick is primarily used as an anti-air option, jumping at someone can put mental pressure on them to "react" to your jump and thus lead to the misinputs. So not only is it simulating human error in the inputs but also potentially simulating the reasons behind those errors.
I think Mythra’s decreased landing lag with Trampoline does actually have something to do with her being switchable with Pyra, but I think it might be more than that. My theory is that Mythra’s “lag” values (end lag on moves, landing lag, etc) could have a unique multiplier when compared to Pyra. So that the moves could be easier to program. Let’s say Pyra’s the “definitive” character between the two. Mythra probably just has some multipliers in damage and lag and whatnot when performing the same move you would perform with Pyra and that could also apply to the landing lag on PAC-Man’s trampoline.
As someone who does play traditional fighting games fairly often, that explanation of Guile's mis-inputs was pretty accurate. It would either be from not holding crouch-block (down + back, since holding back is how you guard in most 2D fighting games like Street Fighter) long enough for Flash Kick to be usable or from simply missing the timing. Given how Guile's assist trophy works, I would assume it's caused by the former, where if the opponent is still nearby after the first Flash Kick and Guile attempts another it simply causes him to do a jumping heavy kick.
That misinput fact made me go “OOOOO WHOA” out loud. Also the barrels reusing the crate breaking animation is smart on the game dev side of things. Good shit 😎🤙
I suspect it's because it's still trying to put the feet on the ground, but the animation has an offset from the ground. So when the ground "disappears" (as he reaches over the ledge), wonky stuff happens
From the look of it, the misinput flashkick only happens when you're on the air. Notably, guile has 2 flashkicks he can use, one that in SF would be attatched to the light kick button and one for the heavy kick button. When you jump he does the heavy version, which has more ending lag but goes highern, hurts more, and presumably has more i frame coverage, but i doubt they went that far. The mis-input is a jump heavy kick, which would only come from heavy flashkick. This is probably because they wanted the misinput to still hit, and a jump light kick was one detail too much for an assist trophy.
If I had to guess about Fox’s foot breaking like that, I would hazard a guess and say Fox is trying to stand on the edge of the stage. You can see it in some fighters’ feet when they’re stood on slants or ledges that their foot kinda hangs off the surface in front of them, or it’s positioned to match the stage geometry. Like if you stood on a pipe in Yoshi’s Island Melee I’m guessing Fox wants to both stand on the corner, and keep doing his rapid jab animation?
The Mythra lag thing is really interesting, because it implies that Mythra literally just uses the same animation files as Pyra, just sped up by around 60% by default. I guess it makes sense, since there's no reason to have two animation files if the only difference is a speed up. This also implies that Pyra is the dominant one, which checks out.
As someone who plays Smash and has recently gotten into Street Fighter, it really is amazing seeing just how faithful the Guile assist trophy is. It's such a perfect caricature of low-level Guile players, spamming nothing but Booms and Flash Kicks (one for if the opponent is far away, the other if they try to jump in/get close), constantly holding down-back to charge both moves while also blocking low (the safest way to block in SF since its only vulnerable to air attacks and certain slow and unrewarding ground moves (in fact I think the assist trophy in Smash is only vulnerable to air attacks when crouching to reference this, not sure though)), and of course, misinputting Flash Kick and getting jump roundhouse. In fact I think the reason he never misinputs while you're on the ground and only does it when you're jumping around is because a charge move like Flash Kick can't be used quickly on reaction due to the charge time, so if someone jumps at you and you aren't ready for it, your anti-air Flash Kick won't get enough charge in time and will come out as jump roundhouse (charge moves are also tricky to learn at first and this kind of misinput is common with lower level players) Probably one of the most subtly detailed assist trophies in the game
For the Fox rapid jab ender thing, my theory is that they forgot to turn off whatever code adjusts the feet angle, like for idle animations the legs will be different depending on the angle/elevation of the ground, I think they simply accidentally left that on during that animation and it's causing some wonkiness as a result.
Fox's foot breaking looks like a classic IK problem. IK, or Inverse Kinematics, is the mathy stuff most games these days do to try and keep your character's feet planted on the ground in a natural looking way. This prevents (or at least mitigates) issues of steep slopes causing characters to have one foot "walking on air" and/or clipping into a slope. Another way to think of it like this: characters have a basic stand and walk cycle that doesn't account for slopes, and IK causes the character's foot and leg to sort of magnetize to the ground whenever they step/stand. Normally, IK systems are designed so that they shut off during certain circumstances, but you almost always end up with weird edge cases that cause them to freak out. In this case, it looks like Fox's attack animation has its IK system activated on the attacking foot for the last jab; doing this over ledge cause the game to attempt to find the floor below Fox's foot, and then offset the foot by what is defined in the animation. Normally, this is fine. However, when the floor below Fox's foot is a kill volume waaaaaaaaay below the foot, the IK freaks out and tries to "plant" Fox's foot on that terrain. tl;dr, Smash, like most modern games, uses some fancy maths to make walking and standing look good even on complex terrain, but it acts a little weirdly here and tries to orient Fox's foot in the wrong direction.
plot twist : examinee is just a PKBeats alt for him to be able to just post his own facts while making everyone think it's a follower's submission so they have a "chance" to show up
I've just discoverded this. If you go to training mode with either Marth or Lucina, with a Meta Knight opponent (I tested and this does not work for Kirby) and spam side smash when training mode loads (it has to be in the training mode stage), the first 2 smash attacks won't connect, even though the third hit and so one do connect
Aight I wanna say, you did a fantastic job explaining charge inputs. The biggest thing (which I might’ve just misheard) but the way they work is that you hold the opposite direction from the attack (Back… Forward for Sonic Boom / Down… Up for Flash Kick). You can also do a quarter-directional of the charging direction, meaning you can do Down + Back… Forward OR Down + Back… Forward. It just so happens that Back is also how you Guard, and Down-Back is how you low guard, which looks like a regular crouch until he’s either hit, or does the charge move. Long story short, one of the safest way to do charge attacks, while also being unpredictable, is crouch-guarding.
Fox's Legs broken by something called IK. The Rig tries to place the foot on an appropriate angle to/on the stage, so animations on slopes look good and don't clip. Beyond the ledge, there is no geometry where the Rig could allign the foot by so it's rotated unnaturally.
My guess is that Mythra has some kind of multiplier on the lag for certain things to make her actions faster than Pyra's, and that the developers didn't test the interaction between that multiplier and Pac-Mans trampoline.
Guile is what’s know as a Charge Character. They’re know for playing defensively and their signature “charge” input. Charge inputs are like you described, hold the stick in one direction, then flick the stick to the opposite direction and press the right button. Guile’s Sonic Boom has you hold back flick forward and press punch, Flash Kick has you hold down flick up and press kick. This is the reason Guile is always crouching. Holding diagonally down and back counts as both holding down and back readying both sonic boom and flash kick. It’s the strat used by every Guile player is the real game.
Many people have pointed out that Guile's sitting down is a reference to how Guile mains in Street Fighter often hold down back in order to charge both Sonic Boom and Flash Kick, one which requires holding back for over a second, then forwards+punch, and one that requires holding down for over a second then up+kick. In fact, Guile as a whole is pretty much the most iconic 'Charge character'. This might be the reason for him being the assist trophy for Street Fighter, along with his playstyle being reliant on it, as opposed to someone like Chun Li, who's also a charge character, but tends to be a lot more aggressive
(1:35) I think it has something to do with the game trying to make the feet stand on the ground when the character is standing. So it looks correct on slopes and such. Seems like it's still trying to do that during that attack.
I’ve been playing street fighter for over 10 years and been playing smash for about the same casually. I kinda like wish there was more people willing to step outside their comfort zone because street fighter is such a dope series
the fact that guile has all of that and then ALSO unique forward jump and neutral jump animations. for the assist trophy thats mostly just a joke about turtling. this game is so funny
I didn't even know Guile could use a jump heavy kick in this game. Wonder what other street fighter inputs are attached to his character but never seen
If you ever watched Maximillian's reaction to Guile's assist trophy, he says "look at him charge that bullshit!" because down-back allows Guile to charge both his Sonic Boom (Back > Foward+Punch) and Flash Kick (Down > Up+Kick). Since back is also block in Street Fighter, that's also why he guards attacks when you try to attack him.
My best guess for Fox's foot causing that is that there's actually a thing added onto animations that's called like Slope Contour. Basically what it does is changes animations for characters feet/legs to match up with the shape of the ground, slope, platform etc. It can be removed in some cases but with the rapid jab being over the edge it's affecting that foot as it's trying to look flush/natural against the ground.
You forgot to test Mii Brawler's counter. Normally, it command-grabs you after triggering it, but what happens with Shadow's freeze frame and walking away..? Does it miss..? And if so, does it have an animation for that..?
1:35 when people animate characters they typically use curves and keyframe probaly moved the keyframe or something ,squishing curves, but not anchor points and didnt notice
The Guile Assist Trophy references a hated playstyle for him done by players where he crouches by the edge of the screen, throwing out Sonic Booms if the opponent is far away and using Flash Kick when they get close. Him misinputing Flash Kick references players often misinputing the move.
1: I Bet that's the game's IK system acting up. For those of you who don't know, Inverse Kinematics, or IK, is a kind of system used to make sure that a character's feet stay on the ground despite uneven footing, without having to go through and custom animate a ton of different walking positions; if you've ever stood a character right next to a ledge they can step up on, with one foot on the ground, and the other on the ledge, with their knee bent up, that's IK in action.
Here's an interesting fact : In the Alpharad video titled "SUPER SMASH BROS ULTIMATE (EVO 2018)" at 3:50, Alpha scrolls through the Ridley alts commenting on there not being a Mecha-Ridley one. And indeed, in this version, the 2 Ridley eventually ends up with are replaced with normal skins that have the same colors as the Mecha-Ridley ones. Making Ridley the only Smash Ultimate character with more than 8 known alts
Hi, there is something funny I want to tell you about Corrin's Final Smash. If Corrin captures specifically one person in the Final Smash, there will be one frame when Corrin is turning into a dragon where you can see the trapped character's model inside of Corrin. This doesn't seem to happen if there are two or more people trapped in the Final Smash.
i think the guile thing comes from a lapse in his 'decision making' in the sense that he decides which move to use based on the opponents position. so when the opponent is jumping around, he tries to attack him and then 'changes his mind' so to speak, resulting in neither move coming out properly. i hope that explanation made sense. also explains why he never misinputs when idle.
Occasionally level 9 CPU will do an up taunt after specifically landing a demon god fist. Seems as if the bot tries to do a side taunt, but ends up somehow inputting an up taunt instead
@@lazyryan3766 top right to bottom left. Top right (Mythra) at 11:46 Examinee623 throughout the video, first at 0:11 Speaking of… at 5:16 Game and Watch 9 jump cut at 3:03 And the training mode slowdown glitch with Ivysaur at 12:45
So my theory about why the Guile misinputs only when actually anti-airing and not when you're right in front of them. I'm sure the comments have said this to death, but the classic Guile Gameplan is essentially to get you to jump over a Sonic Boom and Flash Kick you in the air. When he's just Flash Kicking you on the ground, he's probably charging the whole time, but the Guile Ai might have a "opponent is close" trigger and "anti-air this mfer" trigger, so the Guile AI ends up not charging long enough, either cause it wasted the charge attempting to anti-air, or because it triggered too fast the Charge couldn't build completely.
I think Fox's broken leg in the first fact might be to prevent the move from dropping when hitting someone while they're offstage (especially fastfallers) this game has a lot of unexpectedly intentional things coded into it, so I wouldn't be surprised if that was the case
The failed invincible Terry Rising tackle input that instead does Up Air can be remedied by turning of stick jump, although it will input up tilt instead
11:47 well the other examples it looked like the landing lag was not finished with the animation and *snapped* to the idle. My immediate thought is that maybe mythra has the least landing lag in the entire game and so since her landing lag animation finishes before the pac man landing lag, she just goes into her idle. Unlike every other character who technically has their landing lag shortened.
I'm not a traditional fighting game player (the only charge character I've played is Hodan in Rivals of Aether) but the Guile fact is heckin amazing. I misinput my charges quite often XD
I actually noticed the Yoshi's Island fact myself somewhat close to the game's release, thanks to a spirit fight during which there's poison on the ground, and it is visible when using the camera to look off-screen
my only thought for why mythra would have an altered landlag for pac man's trampoline is maybe it's because she is tied directly to pyra, including stats, moves, and everything, even more so that pokemon trainer, her landlag is determined by a multiplier rather than just a value
My guess for the Fox weird animation is foot ik. Maybe the characters use ik to plant their foot against the ledge and since its over the ledge the ik is going off and its making the foot move towards the goal which would be the ledge. That's my only guess
Nah, he's challenging your jump with an air-to-air. It keeps you close so he can go for blockstrings or just confirm damage into Flash Kick in actual Street Fighter. He never drops a Flash Kick while you're point-blank; only if you jump in before he can charge another kick.
The one problem I have when it came to the shulk fact is that most "inform" videos that feature shulks counter never input his "true vision" variant of his counter, when he holds torwards the direction of a player he knows he's going to counter. I wanted to know if the true variant input could be inputted while in the forzen state.
Most guile player hold downback to keep flashkick and sonic boom ready. Exceptional Guile players hide their charge inputs with his knee bazooka, rolling sobat, and other moves. A top level Guile can basically rush you down while charging.
Fox's leg issue is probably because they forgot to disable his leg snapping to the ground during the rapid jab, so it has no ground to snap to and does that.
Okay so when they were making guile to be a possible character (as most assist trophies started their lives) The roundhouse kick he does is most likely actually a misinputted fair (not up air) It happens because guile gets confused between completing his sonic boom input (which is completed by forward + attack) and the flash kick. So the forward of the sonic book comes out while he is in the air thus leading to him doing a forward air because you can’t do sonic booms on the air. The discrepancy between the damage on its hits isn’t because of sweet/sour spot, it is due to the short hop attack modifier that ultimate has. Cheers
Yes, roundhouse and heavy kick are interchangeable. However, people only use the term "roundhouse" when talking about street figthter, since that was what "heavy kick" was called back in street fighter 2 before the name was standardized.
The reason why trampoline has 29 frames of landing lag is because its landing lag parameters in the game files are not specified and left blank for all other characters, and the game defaults to 29 in this situation. Mythra most likely has 18 frames because she was built off of Pyra and has some weird coding error during the transition that tells the game to have 1/3 less landing lag even in situations where it should be equal.
