Can Muslims Imitate Non-Muslims? An Islamic Examination with Prof Youshaa Patel (Part 1) 

As salam alaykum, the subject is complex and historical context for this doctrine and the Hadith traditions that support it is essential. I encourage you to read my book in which I have more space to do that. We are also planning a follow up presentation that will add further context and nuance to the topic of imitation. That Muhammad Asad chose to wear European dress despite calling for Muslims to embody their religious difference visibly should demonstrate the complexity of this subject. But if we don’t think it through critically then Muslims today run the risk of not knowing how to be Muslim nor how to engage the religious other.

@@youshaapatel7155 what is the benefit to Muslims who live in the west ? Do you want to isolate Muslims into Ghettos ? The important thing to Muslims is to behave according to Islam that’s it , so do not create doubts in Muslims about their behavior and costume

​@abdallaalmidfa7345 not every western Muslim is as spineless as you, alhamdulilah

@@abdallaalmidfa7345 If you watched the entire lecture closely or read my book, you would know that is not my intention. It's the opposite. And if Muslims don't educate themselves about Islam how are they supposed to "behave according to Islam"? The answer is simple: they can't.

@@abdallaalmidfa7345 If you read my book or watched the lecture closely, you would see that my intention is the opposite of isolating Muslims. If Muslims do not take the time learn about Islam how can they "behave according to Islam"? The answer is simple: they can't.

❤

Pitiful, to be blessed with a gift and needing the validation of “others” to give it its due respect. Do you believe the “others” to be intellectually and culturally superior to you and yours? What a sad state of affairs.

Glad it was helpful!

Many thanks!

And because he loved cats

@@youshaapatel7155 yes! That too ☺️

I think imitating attitude, cultural identity, perspective and values are way way worse than dress code

In the end your belief on what faith is, is unimportant. The revelation was sent to the prophet (pbuh) not us. Thr spiritual reality and the unseen are worlds about which only he was given knowdledge when it comes to certain matters. The amount of hasanat for a action for example. As for imitating the prophet's appearance etc, it is from the noblest things a people can do with regards to their dress code for example. Look around everyone adopted european clothing and the entire fashion and culture is driven by commercial industries as a well as cultural agents who drive fashion culture in a particular direction. Those agents are entertainers (sports, acting, music). Aswell as fashion designers who tend to have a disgust outlook on life. When you understand people imitate those they view as having social status. Then you will understand why instead the muslims imimitate the Prophet (pbuh) and the wisdom in that. Its a fact that most of the sahaba were extemely vigilant in trying to imitate the prophet in his actions. Covering the Head is sunnah, a fist length beard is sunnah, a turban is Sunnah. Great scholars of this ummah have held these views but I think the view that imitating the prophet is not sunnah in his dress and style, is just onesided view not shared by many many ulema

Thank you for your comment. When ordinary Muslims living in Europe and North America hear other Muslims talking about celebrating holidays like Halloween and Christmas, figuring out how to dress, socializing with non-Muslims, finding role models, or assimilating into mainstream society more broadly, it is essential to take into account what the Prophet advised regarding imitation (tashabbuh). I do not claim that Muslims must be social pariahs (ghuraba) and blindly oppose whatever non-Muslims do. That is silly and simplistic, and potentially dangerous. But for Muslims to cultivate a healthy identity that allows them to both connect to their Islamic past and to their religiously plural present, they must be both intentional and strategic about balancing between sameness and difference-in terms of both their inward character and outward presentation-while taking into account their unique socio-cultural and political contexts, as well as personality and level of faith. It is a subject requires nuance and reflection. There is no one-size fits all solution.

@@youshaapatel7155 Thanks for your response. That makes sense. And I agree that it's nuanced in practice. I look forward to future conversations on this topic. For example, it'd be great to discuss some of the day to day specifics relevant to a Western Muslim such as wearing jeans, not wearing a headgear, socializing with non-Muslims, etc.

It rubbed you the wrong way because you don't know your Deen. Assimilating with these kuffar is a huge fitnah and disaster. It is clear you want to suck up to these kuffar and keep them happy while they are taking away the children from Muslims and putting them in a criminal kaafir family. Simply because the parents were teaching their children Islam. DOES THAT NOT 'RUB YOU THE WRONG WAY'? What is wrong with Muslims nowadays, it seems all their honor, masculinity and gheerah has been taken way while living among these kuffar.

I draw conclusions in the book that Muslims minorities can adopt because I have greater space to advance a complex and nuanced argument. That said, I argue that Muslims today should feel empowered to determine the best course of action based on their specific social cultural spiritual and political contexts, since this is a subject in which context is crucial. But it also important to consider the importance that Muslims across time and place beginning with the Prophet himself have given to being different, and reflect on how to translate that value into everyday practice today.

Wa alaykum salam, I briefly discuss this famous hadith in the book (pp. 71-72, 139); I also discuss other narrations of this hadith that label the two groups as Persians and Byzantines instead of Jews and Christians. I discuss how some ulama tried to reconcile this apparent contradiction.

@@youshaapatel7155 nice, i got your audiobook right now. I look forward to that part. JazakAllahkhairun

In the conclusion of my book, I argue that Muslims living in Western countries like the United States should feel empowered to choose how they want to dress, whether that means adopting a dress that is distinctively Muslim or adopting styles of dress that are mainstream. I argue that the Prophet Muhammad in fact wanted to connect Muslims to the society around him, and that it is important for Muslims living in countries today to connect to the society around them as well.

@@Habo1003 I can't. I am a German woman. What I lost in an other country without connections and protection? My whole family lives in Germany.

@@youshaapatel7155 I also think that we should use our freedoms in Europe and practice Islam. Nobody force me to watch TV and I don't. TV I banned since 13 years from home, oh thou all Germans have to pay for it, regardless you have a TV or not. I can wear hijab in Germany. So I do. I can pray and fast and other basic things. But there are many little things like no segregation of genders. I am actually used to that, I am not shocked or something. I am more worried about the kids. They have sexuell aducation in school, mixed swimming girls and boys, teachers forcing Muslim kids eating haram in school. My children were only in their class who didn't eat any kind of meat in school. Half of class was Muslim kids and they ate not halal chicken and beaf. The teacher tried to make much pressure to my kids to eat it, by telling them it's not pork, so therefore they can eat it. My daughter didn't wanted go to school, but then after a talk with school they stopped to force the kids. Fasting as well. Teachers say it's child obuse even if the kid wants to fast. I usually say, that they can fast on the weekends. They are anyway not yet responsible, they are 11 and 10. They learn the prayer and to read Quran but the times are changing so fast now. The technologies are getting more and more advanced. I see that we can't escape those developments. To close the eyes would be a mistake. I don't want that my kids are simply consumers, that's why I support them to learn about the technologies and be creative with it. How ever... Brother/sister which book do you mean? You wrote a book? Can you tell me the name, please?

Oh I am so sorry, I just noticed my mistake. I apologize I didn't recordnise you. I am Autistic and have trouble to memorize names and so on and I am face blind as well. I am sorry. I see now. Thank you for your work.

@@safyafarooq2878 I am sorry to hear about these struggles. It sounds like it is a challenging environment in which to hold onto your and your children's religious identity. Each person has a unique context and has to do the best she can, based on her knowledge and the guidance received by Allah. Identity is rarely black and white and requires negotiation... May Allah guide us all to what is best.

Actually, I do argue that The Prophet wanted to align himself and his followers with Judeo-Christian practice not only demonstrate his monotheistic credentials but also to facilitate Jews and Christians joining his community.

Yes the first part is true, but from 1:02:00 where Dr. Patel started talking about the hadith about the hairstyles, he didn't explain why he went away from the styles of the ahl-kitaab as it had appeared at the end of the hadith. My point is that he started doing different "sartorial" practices when he found out that, they were going to be adversorial to his message atleast during his lifetime, hence the need to conform to their practices in order to remove any barriers towards accepting islam was negated. As for the change in Qibla, there are reports that the jews started mocking muslims as to copying their direction of worship, so much so that the prophet pbuh wanted to have a different direction of worship. It has also been argued that a prophecy in the bible mentioned the changing of the Qibla of a later prophet after Jesus pbuh.

@@murtalabuhari9917 You are correct -although I do discuss the decision of the Prophet to part his hair in the book, including reports of Jewish reactions to the qibla change, which likely postdated some of the earliest wars. You may consult chapters 1 and 4 of the book for greater detail on these subjects..

@@youshaapatel7155 i haven't read the book yet, in sha Allah, i will try and do so to get more clarity on the topic. Jazakallahu khairan for your efforts and for the wonderful presentation.

Good question. Ibn Taymiyya and others argued that imitation (tashabbuh) of Other communities does not encompass everything, but encompasses only what constitutes their distinctive markers (shi'ar). Some Saudi Scholars in the 1980's such as Nasir al-Aql did in fact argue that wearing jeans constituted reprehensible imitation of non-Muslims, although most ulama don't make that claim today. The reason is that cultural practices that may have been at one time distinctive to a particulate people can spread to other cultures and lose their uniqueness. Jeans are one such example. Therefore, such practices can no longer be deemed reprehensible or forbidden from an Islamic legal perspective, unless they contravene the explicit Islamic scripture (nass) or ethics, such as modesty (haya).

@@youshaapatel7155 sorry for taking your time. But, if I am from central asia, let's say. Can I wear my country's national clothes? They do not contravene the ethics/haya. Or are the Islamic clothes what we say arabic clothes? Because then it would mean we are following arabs and not Islam, in a sense, unles we want to do exactly as our prophet SAW did. But we can say he SAW wore his own natinal clothes, which would emphesize not leting our culture go, rather than arabization

@@sacredrider In the conclusion of my book, I argue that it is okay for Muslims to choose how they want to dress, whether that means adopting a dress that is distinctively Muslim or adopting styles of dress that are mainstream. The Prophet dressed as Arabs do. However, he eventually adopted new sartorial styles that became associated with Muslims.