this needs to be done regardless of the EV boom. our grid is antiquated and it’s a bit embarrassing that this country is falling behind and falling apart. not everything has to be political. a better and more efficient grid is a win for everyone.
@@mrrogers4591 It is. Much of the grid is from the 80s and before. On energy, the point is that demand is outstripping supply at an increasing pace. Of course we produce and use more energy today. But demand is rising faster than supply so we need to bridge the gap in production to avoid massive shortages in the near future. Extreme temperatures, expanding EVs and urban sprawl all require increased production and distribution of electricity to meet the rising demand.
@@tims8603 I don't know what happens in other states but in Texas thousands miles of new transmission lines have been installed over the last 20 years. It probably easier in Texas since FERC (federal government) approval is not required to do most energy related things.
Almost every country is going through this, all transmission lines need to be changed to put more megawatts where renewables are favoured to where they are not. This is not about the EV adoption but the grid overall and its modern smart capabilities.
Even without a transition to renewables energy demand is constantly increasing. At some point the infrastructure from decades ago gets overloaded and you just have to start some major projects to upgrade it no matter what.
IMO there is no need for large scale grids, especially in sunrich California. Generation and distribution should be local. Combining rooftop solar with community solar projects would be sufficient to provide for the electricity needs of communities. This has the added benefit of large corporations profiteering. Generation and consumption should be local.
@@versach49 it's way more efficient and reliable to share. There's times where your local generators are down for various reasons and you'd never know it since your power is being piped in from far away. There's a reason nearly every place around the world connects to much larger (typically international) grids where possible.
2:00 he said $3.5 to $5 trillion. That's over $10,000 per person in the country with the lower figure. If it was cheaper I think more people would be on board.
replace transmission lines? who's gonna pay for that? honestly this is all insane to me considering we have a cheap and readily available source of energy that isn't going anywhere anytime soon-oil. I for one will never own a electric car
Norway’s now nearly 20% EV and has had *no* issues whatsoever with the grid. Due to incredibly basic physics, anyone who says the grid can’t handle EVs with just basic upgrades doesn’t know what they’re talking about. It’s just a ploy to try and slow governmental incentivization.
Norway had always a lot of cheap electrity. Thats the reason why they already have a strong grid (built from beginning) Thats expensive though and only economical if power is cheap. Thats simply not the case in most countries.
Power grid couldn’t handle everyone getting home air conditioners decades ago, but we made it happen. The grid is broken and outdated, it needs a national clean super grid overhaul - if EVs are the catalyst for this than so be it
Power grid couldn't handle everyone with a/c on decades ago? You mean now... don't remember what happened in Texas? Hell, we lost power last week during a power spike on a hot day.
There is a big difference between the Eastern part of the country and the newer Western part of the country. The older parts naturally need rebuilding, so would need it regardless.
Yep, and there are ways for the utilities to make good money while at the same time not even having to gouge the consumer. One day someone at the utilities is going to figure that out, and their utility will become a giant in the industry.
Yea like home energy production through solar panels and in home battery storage. In future the energy companies will have to buy energy from home owners to supply commercial use. I’d invest in solar power and home energy storage. But then again that works for folks that live in places that get a lot of sun and thankfully I live where the sun is up my ass all day.
You nailed it with the magic word "bureaucracy." The US system is burdened with extensive regulations, bureaucracy, and corruption that permeate from local counties all the way up to the White House. The country is lagging behind by trillions of dollars in infrastructure development and it seems increasingly difficult to catch up without accumulating deeper debt.
Yet that does not apply to the bulk electric power system. Bulk electric power in North America is an international affair - US and Canada share the same system. If the US Federal Energy Regulatory Commission (FERC) and the Canada Energy Regulator (CER) agree, it shall be done. If not, not. The specters of corruption and bureaucracy are not a part of the picture.
I live in California, they are asking people to conserve energy by not using large appliances like air conditioning in the Summer from 4:00-9:00 pm. It hits 90 degrees in my house in the middle of Summer. We have clean energy alternatives but people are "scared" of them. We desperately need our power grid update to happen sooner rather than later, I foresee brownouts again this Summer.
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It's like watching a worldbuilding video game play out in real time where you have to choose how to invest your limited resources: growing crops, building stuff, adding people to your team, etc, and you can't do everything at once that needs doing.
99% of evs only need to be recharged for 40 miles per day or less on average. Don't make the mistake of thinking evs will be recharging 300 miles a day of range. A small, cheap solar setup can charge 6 miles per day. I only drive my gasoline car 100 miles per week.
99% of EVs are passenger cars... private. In 10 years there will be semis on electric driving all over the place as well as delivery trucks, city buses....you can't base the future of EV use when they are everywhere and used for everything off today's usage when they are a small slice. In 10 years I would not be surprised to see the first trains and first planes running off electric. They are already working on both!
@@DarkPesco Yup! And I expect that those cases will 1) Have buffers and draw 24/7 at a fixed rate and then charge the vehicles from the buffers. 2) The grid in their area will be upgraded to handle them 3) Alternatively, they will *move* their vehicle facilities to areas where the grid can handle them. 40) They will use a *lot* of solar power since it is much less expensive than grid power. My home solar set up will run about 0.16c/kwh by the time it dies. No subsidies either! That's my out of pocket cost.
The good news is that the U.S. government is already taking steps to prepare the grid for the EV boom. The Infrastructure Investment and Jobs Act, which was passed in November 2021, includes $7.5 billion for grid modernization. This funding will help utilities upgrade the grid and install new technologies.
Facts. Biden gets a lot of harp, but this is one of the most transformative things American has done for the economy. It’s just takes +10 years to feel the effects and who ever is president in 2032 will get the praise for it.
We will never see it. Asia is so futureristic. America is too greedy. Look at Singapore, China, South Korea, Tokyo.......they are INCREDIBLE AWESOME! They are not afraid of changing. M
@@ursulasmith6402ey are also the size of moderately small states. Original commenter is an idiot. 7.5 billion is basically zero. High voltage transmission lines run into the tens of millions per mile . PCG is spending $30 billion for 10K miles. Multiply that by the whole hell of a lot more miles than that for high voltage and suddenly 7.5 billion isn’t a down payment.
The point is-the US grid needs to be upgraded. And we all know certain people in Washington are going to have to be dragged along kicking and screaming considering their mission to keep the US permanently in the 1970s.
My take. Here in Texas we have made great effort to do residential solar. I have a 4,800 watt solar roof and thinking of adding 50% more. My car will use half of the daily output. The state is determined not to add power plants Incentives for homes is growing.
In California they just got rid of net metering. So now going solar is 50% more expensive since you have to buy a battery. And that is on top of the high costs of going solar because of the high cost of labor. I am just glad I am grandfathered into net metering.
@@jamestucker8088 You do not really have to buy a battery. However, if you want to make the money math work, you may want to look at carefully aligning your Time-of-Production and Time-of-Use.
@@macmcleod1188 3- 3.5 miles per kw. I was driving average 80 miles to 90 per day. The daily output is 24-26 kWh. The summer Sun track has shifted to the north so much I need to take advantage of 2-6 pm Sun track on the western face of my roof. I have a lead foot and use 16-17 % each direction Full A/C and I go with the flow of traffic. Over 8K miles on Mach-e in 3.5 mo. I drive it a lot. Charge 500 kWh at home per month 85%. 15% at free or pay charging stations. My LYRIQ is ordered and range anxiety will be a thing of the past. 309 miles verses 224 on Mach-e.
If people get 5 KW of home solar per electric car, they can actually use less electricity than when they did not have solar and a electric car. So I am not worried about the grid, if people will install some solar each time they buy a electric car. In your case, maybe a total of 12 - 15 KW considering your HVAC needs and 2 cars.
Look at small modular reactors and hopefully molten salt thorium reactors. We have to change to survive..... maybe 100 stations across the US in 10 years would be a really good start.
"the crowd is deadly silent... a cinderella story, an electrical engineer, outta nowhere... on his final project, it looks like a miraculous... IT"S IN THE HOLE!"
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Utility companies fight consumer solar panels, they do not want it since consumers would make money off excessive solar supply. We need to change laws to allow consumers to sell electricity to the grid at profit. It will resolve all future electric demand issues.
To secure space to upgrade the lines should those towns grow. Other utilities like fuel and internet fiber lines would run similar paths when demand grows past trucks and antennas.
Big super-grids are a thing of the past, optimised for large centralised producers (thermal generation), and large consumers (smelters/arc furnaces/factories). Now the grid more about moving small amounts of energy over longer periods, with localised storage, consumption and storage. It'll be fine. My EV consumes about 10% of my household total, so the EV isn't the problem....
Why the big grids? Reliability in the big picture. When I lived in Phoenix a community in West Phoenix had a microgrid that connected to community grid. I don't know what the advantage was, but then one day the transformer faulted. Replacement would cost more than $1,000,000. I never learned how that worked out. One of the huge advantages of the large grids (here in the West it stretches from the Arctic Circle to Mexico basically west of the Rockies. We will never have the problem Texas had with their one-state grid in February 2021. I don't berate anybody for not knowing how the bulk electric power system in their country works. It is complicated in all sorts of ways - technical, regulatory, economic.... I worked there for 34 years and still had questions when I retired.
@@flagmichaeland on the flip side you can have 1 utility near Cleveland that screws up and blacks out the entire north east. Ultimately we use mega grids to aggregate different types of demand and generation to make management easier and keep prices down. Microgrids are great for improving reliability by having the option of disconnecting from a damaged grid and operating in "island mode". They also tend to cover select loads like hospitals, police stations, schools, universities, and apartment complexes. (Single family homes tend to not be worth hooking into a microgrid)
In north Texas I’ve seen a building boom since 1982. At no point did anyone ask if the grid could handle all those McMantions with 2 or even 3 AC units each.
@@philtimmons722 I would not get solar in Texas. The pro oil and gas people will find a way to punish you even if they have to work through third parties like HOAs and buddies in the insurance business. It happened in Florida and even in California. Chilling effect? You bet! I did buy EVs and now find out I'll be paying $200 per year to register them but that's still worth it. I'm guessing the folks that sell solar have near zero lobby dollars.
The most important part is to have fuses at transformer etc. It is no biggie to lose power a few hours, because EMP and solar storms are unlikely events. Besides a solar storm will affect the northern states near the auroras.
As others have pointed out, EMPs mean nuclear war. Solar flares only affect relatively small parts of North America, along the eastern seaboard. If a solar flare is detected (yes, the sun is monitored 24/7/365) vulnerable power lines can be switched out in plenty of time. Here in Arizona we have no vulnerable lines.
The U.S. grid needed to be overhauled anyway. Before the latest growth of EVs, there were grid failures. They could be caused by something breaking, a storm/fire/flood, or foreign governments attacking our infrastructure.
I started switching to solar 8 years ago first out of necessity and then out of it was just less expensive than going on the grid. It was a slow buildup for me which gave me the opportunity to learn on the go how to install and maintain the solar system myself. That greatly reduces the cost of solar. Upfront cost for me to go on the grid was at least 3,000 dollars. 1500 for just the hookup and then at least that much more for the powerpole, trenching and all the other stuff you need. I just put that into a small but good-sized solar system and some golf cart batteries. Three years later its paid for itself and then I started adding more panels to it and beginning the switch to Lithium batteries. The goal is to keep adding to it slowly so it's paying for itself as I go. Even the smaller starting solar system was meeting my basic electricity and cooling needs easily. Now I am getting to where I can pretty much do anything a person hooked up to the grid can do electricity wise. I was renting a decent sized propane tank. I've gotten to where I was using so little propane the company got snotty with me over it. I made them come take the tank away! It is pretty cool when you get to that point, and you can say I am my own power company!
It's cool that a select few can do this but it should never have come to this point. It's dangerous to keep large lithium batteries in your house or garage and it also hurts the supply of batteries for EV's. If they are second-life batteries then I am on board. People should actually look into Flow battery systems instead as they are safer and the solution can be recycled easier. Large power companies should also be buying up these flow batteries and use them as microgrids in areas where needed and also capture excess solar energy during the day. I think 7 Billion in funding would go a lot further in setting up these systems instead of dealing with all the politics of rebuilding more power lines.
@@MrBadbonesaw Lithium Iron Phosphate (LFP) batteries seem to be safe and reliable these days. I don't worry about having 45kWh of LFP battery storage in my house. Also they last a long time - 6000 full charge-discharge cycles or more, and we only partly cycle them each day.
The two reactors being added in Georgia (Vogtle plant) are the last ones being built in the US. That project started in 2009 and is over $30 billion. Current nuclear is just too slow and too expensive to build. Existing nuclear is fine. Once the plants are up and running, they are pretty cheap to run. So keep what we have going, beyond their original lives with upgrades.
@@wineberryred batteries are expensive and can’t be scaled up feasibly. Nuclear can be cheap by using new reactor designs and continuing to research potential technologies
@@TheLiamster Its a challenge but not insurmountable. First, it's unlikely that lithium will be used for grid scale storage. There is plenty of research going into non-Lithium storage that are optimized like liquid-metal and flow batteries, compressed CO₂, gravity, to name a few. These alternative energy storage technologies sacrifice high volumetric density but gain by being _a third_ the cost of lithium while supplying _many_ times the cycle count and even unlimited cycle count. Stationary grid-scale energy storage simply does not need the high energy densities that are paramount in EV applications. That high power density complicates the chemistry and manufacturing of lithium batteries. Stationary batteries will be made of common materials.
@@TheLiamster Nuclear is actually infeasible based on just build times! It takes a decade to build one a new plant from scratch. New nuclear construction is perpetually plagued with being over-budget by *billions* and over-schedule by *years* each and every time. Nuclear power is the long running joke in the energy construction industry. Proposed SMR technology is far from proven. Even if built faster, there's not guarantee it can scale. SMR are purposely much smaller in wattage for transportability but will suffer from lacking "economies of scale" which have driven current nuclear power plants to be on the larger capacity range (gigawatts). There are safety tradeoffs that SMR must make for economy and size. SMR might not actually be safer than traditional nuclear but just have different safety characteristics. The nuclear industry is understandably _very_ conservative and cautious. But this means SMR will be all the slower to reach market provided it can even compete. New nuclear is the most expensive form of energy while wind & solar are reaching ever lower record low costs. On top of this, even people are against having wind and solar farms around them. Can you imagine NIMBYism for nuclear power? People don't want a nuclear power plant within a county of them. Look at France which has a high percentage of nuclear power on their grid. But they are now in *big* trouble with aging nuclear power plants that average *39* years old! The oldest reactors (Bugey-2,3,4,5) are over 44 years old! France has not paid the necessary maintenance or invested in engineers and even the specialized welders needed to maintain and build them. France will largely *not* be replacing these plants with new nuclear which tells you something doesn't it? France has not built a new nuclear power plant since the 1997 and those took almost a decade to come online. France's neighbor Germany has shut down all nuclear plants with no plans to build any.
Most BEV will be charged at night when other demands will be minimal. Having BEV smart charge can actually minimize the peak and valley demands. It BEV can be used as a storage solution than the demand can be flattened to an unprecedented extent.
Yes, these videos with speculations are all over youtube. Look at Norway, it had the biggest increase in EV purchases, and it had more power than sweden (the neighbor country) that had to purchase Electricity last winter, despite only 5 percent of the population having EV's). So yeah, lot's of opinions - very little facts.
Look to Spain for better solutions, extensive high speed rail between major population centers connecting to well developed metro area transit. Much more efficient and less expensive. It is also better for those that need to drive.
@@jeremypearson6852 I imagine in the near future more apartment buildings will be built and renovated with connections. Just like AC it will eventually be a competitive advantage for rentals that have it.
@@barryrobbins7694 You are right, but in America it is an chicken and egg thing. People don’t use mass transit, because it is frequently slower and less convenient. So no one wants to invest into mass transit to make it faster and more convenient.
The utility companies have known for a decade that this demand is coming. The consumer is not to blame for wanting to use the utility. The utility company is to blame for not keeping up to demand.
Once these utilities figure out how to make lots of money out of renewables, it will shock people just how much electricity these utilities can actually produce!
Rate increases for utility upgrades and build outs rejected by PUC as unfair to low income consumers.. People who own solar now reject paying for grid upgrades. Utilities have only stabilized electric demand by HE appliances, LED light, bulbs, daylight savings time. Progressive California will soon electricity not on usage, but on income levels. Punish nasty rich people who buy electric vehicles!
California peak demand has only gone up about 4% in the last twenty years. Roof top solar has taken a big bite out of peak electricity demand. I don’t use any electricity during peak demand with solar and a Power Wall.I use a small amount at night to meet my minimum charge.
You seem to be confused, you have replaced one source of electricity for another, that didn't reduce your demand, just the source of your electricity. What if the Russians blow up a nuclear power station and cause the world to go into a deep freeze? You won't have any solar power.😁😁
Also high frequency transformers that are extremely efficient, e.g. a dishwasher 30 years ago might have used 20 Watts on standby, now it might be 1 Watt). LED lightbulb, incandescent were 100 Watts now 10 Watts for the same amount of light. Bar heater 2kW, now heat. pump ~0.6kW for the same amount of heat.
Only gone up 4% in the last two decades yet they still struggle to meet demand and even have suffered failure....which means they need massive upgrades! AC demand will skyrocket in the next decade, as well...longer and hotter summers tend to do that.
@@DarkPesco California does not struggle to meet demand anymore than anywhere else and far better than places like Texas. The times power is secured is primarily because of the fire hazard not lack of supply.
@@matthewhuszarik4173Glad you’re flattening the duck curve! One thing that surprises non-California EV owners is that California EV owners are better off charging in the middle of the day than the middle of the night (to take advantage of high solar production).
Of course it can’t. Our power grid could barley sustain power on summer days back some years ago? now imagine with the EV boost especially with the promoted EV rebates by govt?
Free market will solve these. Thankfully we have a good govt under Biden passing EV initiatives to protect the planet. Our kids and grandkids will thank us. Personally the govt will solve these and good things develop (like internet )
there is a hidden answer to you in those comments, which was censored... its not the grid... its the production, transmission lines (high volts) can transmit alot more than they are ever designed for... loading of batteries can be done at very low watts, its that they just want to do it fast.. its all convience. Jason its advert for companies
@@astemet If you sorted out all these details, you would be on the right track, but this doesn't make any sense as it stands. (I am a retired grid operator).
Everyone I know that has an EV charges them late at night when the rates are low. So the grid is charging cars instead of running air conditioning units. So the real problem is storing green energy for when its needed not EVs getting charged over night.
The solution to the supply problem can be said in one word: NUCLEAR. No, renewables on their own (no matter how interdependent you make the grid) are *not* going to be sufficient. You *must* have a baseload power source, right now that's mostly coal/oil with a smattering of nuclear, it needs to be all nuclear.
You really need to look into this farther, My utility stock is not making much money, and I can't get them to buy back any stock at all. I thought my dividends were regulated by the state regulatory agency.
Great story CNBC! This big question has not yet been answered. If the majority of the electric grids are already operating at maximum capacity, how can we then increase EV usage which consume massive amounts of electricity during charging? Large countries like India to small countries like Cuba have not invested in their power infrastructure in years.
When thinking of going electric for my car, I wanted it to be a clean source. I took advantage of some good incentives in 2011 and moved to solar. My solar energy production is far above my consumption now (more than a 60% reduction in electric). Starting in 2016, I started with a blower door test on my home, as well as other audits. Found the weaknesses and made moves to tighten the leaks in my home, went to super efficient heat pumps for heating/cooling (gas backup) and a clothes dryer, as well as a on demand tank-less water heater (gas). So, by making these efforts reality, helped to reduce the amount of energy consumed, well offsetting the greater need for more electrical equipment. Remember, YOU cannot make a fossil fuel, but you can make clean solar power! And that my friend is by design.
I quit using a clothes dryer...just hang dry. I keep waterheater turned off...when hot water is needed just turn heater on and have all hot water needed in 20 minutes. My electric bills average $50 - $60/month.
I'm pretty happy with my move to solar. I wasn't able to install a system to replace all my demand, but it covers about half. Since I'm on a tiered power use system, it lowers my overall bill by more than half. Additionally, I when I leave on vacation, it actually makes money (net metering). The system will break even in about 7 more years.
Huge problem with "renewables" is they take a lot of land area, you need enough to provide power for your area, PLUS capacity to store, PLUS capacity to provide power to other areas. Any solution that doesn't include nuclear for at least baseline load shouldn't be taken seriously.
While I agree that nuclear the baseline and then some. I do not think solar is being implemented efficiently. In China they build massive solar farms in the desert. What they found that dew from the evening does not evaporate as quickly in the shade of the panel. This has caused weeds and grass to grow. They bring sheep in to graze under the panels and greening the desert becomes a byproduct of the solar farm as the 🐑💩 enriches the soil. The Chinese are now doing this in Saudi Arabia where there are acres and acres of desert being turned green. As far as I can see there is a lot of desert in New Mexico, Arizona, Nevada and Texas.
None of these reports seems include the fact that most people will charge their EV's at night when a lot of industrial, commercial, and residential use is reduced from 8pm until 6am. This reduces a significant additional load on the grid. The grid will need improvement just due to the forecast load growth from industrial, commercial and residential anyway.
I suspect that as people become aware of the problems with electric cars, they will not be so keen to take part in the experiment. They are very expensive, due to the cost if the battery containing cobalt, lithium and nickel. Charging is a pain, and there are loads of videos of the anxiety of drivers trying to charge enough to continue their journey. A "battery" contains about 7000 individual calls. A fault in a single cell can spread like an explosion through the battery, the vehicle and nearby vehicles or property. One roll-on, roll-off car transport cargo ship caught fire with electric cars on board. An EV fire CANNOT be extinguished. That ship eventually sunk to the bottom of the Atlantic with £500,000 worth of luxury cars. Another ship caught fire and had to be abandoned. The battery is VERY heavy and wears out high duty tires. When current incentives to buy EVs disappear, insurance costs will be astronomical, including transport insurance, by ship,train (not through tunnels), or by road. To cap it all, building the vehicle consumes fossil fuel for smelting the metals from ore, rolling and pressing. And when you have your expensive toy, much of the electricity to charge and recharge it - is based on combustion of fossil fuels. It is not going to save the planet. The only solution I can see is what was done in WW2. Drive less, or be forced to drive less. I knew car owners who put their cars on blocks, and went to work by bus or bike. My father-in-law was one. Meanwhile China is building more coal-fired power stations.
We’ve gone mostly off grid. We put big solar systems on our two rental houses and the cabin we live in, all of which we built or remodeled ourselves as super efficient, well insulated and fire resistant. We bought a used Bolt from my brother in law and are saving up for home batteries and waiting to replace my old Dodge Ram with an 80s Toyota sized electric truck. I installed the solar kits myself, so payoff for the panels will be in less than five years. years. As we charge it at home, the Bolt costs much less to drive than an ICE. The batteries will take a while to pay off, but over time, will still cost much less than electricity from our price gouging utility monopoly.
We have three reasons for our plan to be completely off grid within the next few years. 1. Kick our price gouging utility monopoly in the teeth. PG&E is more crooked than Enron and we are doing our part to drive a stake in their black heart. 2. Save money. God willing, will be in this home for the next thirty years. So, if we invest now, we will build much more wealth as we prepare for retirement. 3. Fight the climate crisis. As relatively early adapters, our purchasing decisions now have a big impact on the further development of green technologies. 4. Prepping. We are low key preppers and there are a lot of real threats to the electrical grid. I’ve got big dogs and other things to discourage bad people from coming on our property. We have a half a year of food in the pantry. Our water is gravity fed. We have a wood stove and a few acres of woods to supplement our solar powered electric heat. Our power went out for ten days after a blizzard this winter. Our neighbors with gas and diesel generators all ran out of fuel after a few days. We did fine.
@@freeheeler09ahahahahahahaah your folks crack me up. Thinking you will survive if society collapses. The only people who will survive that are tribes living in the jungle or aboriginals living in the middle of the Outback. I ASSURE you if society falls your family will be killed immediately like everyone else. You can’t even comprehend what 8 billions humans with no food or water will become. But I assure you anyone living within even 2k miles of a city will be overrun and killed.
The US grid has increased in capacity 5x (500%) since the 50's. To move to all EVs we only need to increase the grid capacity about 20%. Most EV charging is done off-peak and actually helps balance the grid (increasing overall utilization). Everyone also forgets that we'll be using less electricity to refine fossil fuels which helps offset the increased usage. The fossil fuel infrastructure uses a lot of electric power. The statement that our electric usage hasn't increased in 25 years is way off, data centers created a huge increase in electric demand from 1998 to 2012 before it started to level off.
not bad -- you are pretty close. 20% Add for 100% EV, but then deduct 10% for the reduced Oil Processing. Net increase is 10% across 20 years. That was the general model. But now it turns out that over 1/3 of EV owners also get Solar PV -- creating a Net Deduct of their entire house, along with the EV. If this continues the final Utility Total at 20 years is a Net Negative. Data Centers are only about 1 to 2% of the Total Grid. Nuisance with Data Centers is not the load but the requirements for High Reliability. But look for that use to drop with near term technology shifts.
@@Effervescent_Smegma You can do the big picture math by looking at US Total Miles Drive (per year) = 3.22E12. And average Watt-hours per mile = 250 Watt Hours. So 3.22E12 x 250 = 805E12 Watt Hours. Current US Total Electricity is about 4E15 Watt Hours. So (805E12 / 4E15) x 100% give about a 20% increase. But then deduct the present electricity used in the Oil industry and it is only a 10% increase. Spread that across 20 years and it becomes 1/2% increase per year. Home Solar PV is expanding quicker than that, so the net effect is a overall reduction in Utility Grid generated electricity. -- with ALL Electric Ground Transport.
Our grid system is growing faster than demand. New appliances are far more energy efficent than 10 years ago. WAy cheaper to build the grid than refineries and pipelines.
EMP grid protection: If we are going to be making significant upgrades to our power grid for future electric vehicle use, then this might also be a good opportunity to simultaneously make the power grid resistant to "electromagnetic pulse" [EMP] events. These can be caused by the Sun, or by a terrorist weapon, and can destroy items powered by electricity. In particular, our current power grid is extremely vulnerable to an EMP event. Very bad consequences would arise from losing significant portions of our power grid, including the deaths of millions because modern civilization is so dependent on the power grid.
In alot of ways, they already have. After the mega-outage of 2003, which was caused by a solar storm based EMP that led to the cascading blackout, utility companies started hardening their system, and this would make it more robust for manmade EMPs as well. That's not to say there wouldn't be localized outages, but the cascading failures of past outages are far less likely.
Already mitigation systems in place. Already have fuses, caps etc. What happens when lightning strikes, a car hit a power pole, a tree fall on a line, sections are isolated then quickly repaired. Anyway, humans can still live without power. All it would take is some time to repair.
And install hybrid or off grid inverters. The new net metering policies are getting so tilted in the power company's favor (thanks to all the lobbying) that it's turning into a total joke to feed back into the grid.
Tell your leader's who are motivating people to switch to EV , the politicians should start using Electric vehicles wherever they go as they travel in large convoy's 50-60 cars at a time but a common Man on 1car at a time so , these politicians should set a good example among the populous and switch to EV's so people can look up to them as a role model and can do the same . Let's see how many of these politicians who are advising people to go Electric 🚗 would do that and apply on themselves first .
@@MuiKaHowell there have been some movement with the debt ceiling deal making some reforms, but it not the comprehensive reform needed. I think they will get it done by this year because it’s very important if we want to meet the targets
@@MuiKaHoYes, they worked fast in placing illegitimate SCOTUS judges literally a week before the 2020 election. They sure do work fast when it’s to help the corrupt and elite
Renewables still need non-renewables as a backup when they aren't generating enough power to meet demand. In any electric grid it operates at a certain frequency, and there's a very low tolerance either side of that frequency. Go outside of that range and bits of the grid will start to trip out. Power stations can't just be turned on at the drop of a hat, so they have to be running all the time, they need to be able to ramp up generation to whatever amount is needed, in an instant. In Europe last summer, some hydroelectric dams stopped generating electric when water levels got too low. France had problems with their nuclear plants, iirc the water used to cool the reactors got too warm so they had to reduce output to stop the reactors from overheating
You're right. In the U.S., the frequency is 50-60Hz. In Texas, natural gas is the primary, wind and solar is the backup up. Fossil fuels has to be the primary and not the back up.
@@Wolfcamp555 I was watching a vid on RU-vid once about when a large area of grid (think it was somewhere in the US) crapped itself with one part going, the lines where the load got diverted to couldn't handle the excess load, think it was cables sagging, touching trees and then tripping out
Many energy efficient appliances are arriving from Europe who have used this tech for decades. As energy prices increase usa more heat pump hvac, heat pump dryer, heat pump water heater, geothermal heat pump 20-40% more efficient than separate furnace/ac system. No ways to conserve a precious commodity. ⚡️
A few ways to handle the "EV Boom" *Create better supporting laws for solar installation in personal homes, businesses, and rental properties. (Will reduce significant demand with proper setup of solar install, as most people will be driving locally majority of the time) *Promote less car centric culture by building actual public transit that works for all people, including rich, not just poor. A train is significantly more efficient at carrying 1000 people than even full 100 cars would be capable of. The same with making sure that we focus less on suburban and rural, and build urban cities where you can walk five minutes to get to most places and not have to get into a car within that time and then drive 10 minutes just to pick up a gallon of milk. Our land zoning needs to be removed, if people want to build a business or a grocery store next to my place, let them, regulate the negative effects, not what can be and cannot be build in already zoned area.
people are so stuck on this aptera, its going to be a pipe dream. Aerodynamics do not matter as much as other things being efficient. a tesla model 3 has to use at or less than 255whpm to achieve its EPA range. a SR model 3 gets max EPA 272. trust me, that is nearly impossible unless you are on steady freeway trip. in vegas summer, i cant see less than 380whpm. maybe 350whpm depending on other factors. but simply put, you just loss 1/3 of that range automatically just for it being in the summer. but once the sun goes down and stops blaring its ugly heat on us and those stupid ass glass roofs they use that absorb heat are not absorbing the baking hot sun anymore, my whpm number drops to under 300whpm and often fairly close to 270whpm. this tells you that an already aerodynamic vehicle gets worse simply due to outside temp killing the battery because its powering the AC, cooling system, battery management etc harder until it cools down outside below 100F and no sunlight. EVs are SUPER SENSITIVE TO ENVIRONMENT. EVs have to be more efficient in other ways, not just aero. aero is a very small minor hinderance or improvement in comparison to real world use within cars of the same general class. (sedans vs suv). this no charge solar pipe dream is essentially a golf cart in comparison.
As a Solar employee, it’s not just the EV industry that’s been impacted but ALSO the Solar industry especially in California. All systems sold now to residential MUST include a backup battery because there’s too much power being imported to the grid so they’re making Homeowners store power on their own. Batteries retail from anywhere between $15-17grand so basically if an HO goes solar, before, their new electric bill could be like $90 for example. Now w/ batteries, lowest bill solar can do for them is like $150. Public utilities need to just update the grid plain and simple
@@philtimmons722 batteries are absolutely required if they want to see savings - the pinnacle point of going residential Solar in the first place Telling HO’s to avoid TOU w Solar is like telling HO’s not to drive their automobile during Rush Hour Problem
@@jpmcfrosty Batteries COST -- A LOT. Most Solar PV homeowners enjoy the cost savings of aligning Solar Time-of-Production and Time-of-Use. Typically Air Conditioning. It is like a set-back thermostat -- in reverse. If you have Solar PV, you can run your Air Conditioning especially during the Solar PV production time (typically 8 am to 4 pm) -- has your house all cool before the heat of the day hits. Same on EV Charging, same on Water Heating. Really not that difficult and saves from the need for batteries. You do not actually do any of this in the Real World, right?
The power grid will handle it until it doesn’t. In the meantime, supply and demand will jack the prices well over fuel costs which brings us back to square one.
I think that Tony Seba "Rethink X" has the right answers. No mention of Mega packs from Tesla and BYD by Clifford or the fact that most EVs charge off peak while we sleep. More complete research on the whole subject would have helped. The grid will most certainly become more decentralized with the decrease of solar panels and LFP batteries.
Population centers in sunny areas of the country could quite easily put solar on every suitable building or surface facing the sky. Then the energy is used right there where it's needed. Reduced energy transmission loss, reduced need for transmission infrastructure, and reduced demand on the centralized power plants for the win. It also makes the entire grid more resilient especially if those solar installations are coupled with batteries. Decentralization, not centralization, is how you solve this problem.
Be careful what you wish for. I was the Smart Grid IT guru in Flagstaff from 2010 when the system was installed to 2018 when I retired. It was a simple affair, about 35 switches connected through spread spectrum radios providing info and control among the smart devices in the system. For those three dozen devices the level of complexity was enormous. Virtually all Smart Grid systems today are bleeding edge.
using the California example, it would cost about $1280 per person to update the grid. People will save much more than that by electrifying everything (EVs are cheaper than gas, solar can earn you money instead of costing, efficient heat pumps are much cheaper than natural gas of fuel oil...).
A great video. Lost in this analysis, though, is that oil and gas exploration is extremely electricity intensive. Everything from exploration, to extraction, to refining, to distribution. To the degree electrification reduces the activity of the oil and gas industry it will help offset some of these challenges.
I guess they tend to forget how much electricity it takes to export millions of gallons of jet fuel and gas from Texas to the Eastern States. And to pump gas and jet fuel to Las Vegas and Utah from Long Beach California refineries. So less gas produced means less pollution in California too!
@@Kangenpower7 You're 100% correct. Looking at it holistically, there's nearly as much electricity per mile travelled in a gasoline-powered car as there is in an electric car. But the gas car is ALSO burning gas. Unbelievably inefficient.
I’m always a bit confused by these talks about needing to increase transmission lines. It wasn’t until the very end that they briefly mentioned distributed power generation with roof top solar and batteries. Why not focus more on building energy where you need it than transmitting it all over the place? We’ll still need the transmission lines to balance the power supply, but each home’s demands could easily be reduced with solar and batteries and that’s all you need to keep the grid capacity at the current rates.
EVs are only a short term answer to a longterm problem: How to enable people to efficiently travel. Even EVs are not efficient enough for widespread use. We need to develop HSR networks, and better metro area transit systems.
The big issue with distributed RE generation is the Variability of it. Yes it will and does help but local wind/ solar droughts are much more common than ones over large areas. (Sometimes it makes more sense just to move the power over long distances rather than over build power generation.) I think EVs are a bigger opportunity than a challenge most people really don't need to charge an EV every day if people can plug the car in and leave it in a charge on cheap power mode
@@barryrobbins7694 france has a large hsr that there average citizen cannot afford to use its mostly business travlers that can use them ordinary people fly or drive and gov subsities just shifts cost to taxpayers or to national dept that causes inflation the hardest tax on most people
The problem is not the EV boom, nor the outdated grid, nor the lack of interconnection, or any of the reasons explained in this video. The problem is the lack of political will from both parties to agree for the next 20-30 years, no matter who is in charge/elected, they will both pass spending bills and maintain the focus on upkeep, modernization, and installation of new transmission lines/infrastructure. Everything else mention in this video is a problem, but not THE problem as to why the US energy grid is lacking, behind, or vulnerable to many of the new modern issues.
I heard that China has been at the forefront of UHVDC technology development and deployment. They made significant investments in building UHVDC transmission lines to efficiently transmit large amounts of power over long distances. The Jinping-Sunan UHVDC line is approximately 3500 kms and connects the Jinping hydropower station in Sichuan to the coastal city of Sunan in Jiangsu Province. Also the Changji-Guquan transmission line is a colossal feat that will be able to transmit 12,000MW of power, or enough to meet the needs of 26.5 million people, across China. It will transmit the same amount of power as Romania uses in a year, or half of Spain’s energy demands, over a distance greater than Barcelona to Moscow.
That is the beauty of five year plans and the State being overly commited to its goals. Everything else in China can be falling apart , but Capital Intensive infra structure projects is where China shines at.
@@TheSnerggly nope, Louisiana. We have the same problems, storms and hurricanes have ravaged our infrastructure. The population is so sparse a 100 acre wildfire seldom does any damage to structures so it’s forgotten quickly if it’s even reported on. This past week it’s been over 100 degrees 4 days. The local power company lost a major transformer at the substation and has caused 1500 people to sporadically loose power while they try to fix it. They put in just enough capacity to meet the needs 29 years ago, it’s not enough today, without electric cars adding to it. Everyone thinks that California has all these issues no one else has with the power grid, in reality the entire grid (Texas included) has the same issues: lack of reinvestment and guaranteed profit for power companies. Privatization of profits and public bailouts for catastrophic losses. All it would take is for Louisiana power companies to bury some powerlines to somewhat limit catastrophic damage after a hurricane. They never do it, the ratepayers and taxpayers simply foot the bill so cheap poles go back up and stand tall just to get blown right back down the next time.
We need to build enough capacity to enable legacy(think heavy industry like aluminum smelters and steel arc furnaces) and modern industries (like data centers and carbonless technology) to exist plus the switch to carbonless hvac and transportation . A smarter grid and surplus capacity for industries will be an economic boom for America.
There is no mention of converting from high voltage transmission lines to ultra-high voltage transmission lines. China, the biggest market for EVs, is installing their first ultra-high voltage transmission lines with plans for the first ultra-high voltage DC transmission lines.
Solar/battery costs are expected to drop by 70% over next 7 years while transmitting that electricity is expected to rise by 35%. This will make off-grid a cheaper option for many.
It's good to see an honest account of how the infrastructure of the US needs massive investment to make it fit for the future. In the UK we have a cabal of EV evangelists who want to try to convince us we are ready for the electrified future when we are not even fit for the present.
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If every home where to install a 5 KW solar system with each car they also bought, they would have a net negative power use in that area. And if they only charge from "Excess" solar power and overnight charging when the grid has excess power, they can get it done, even without significant upgrades.
The data center boom ended a decade ago. There is still more computer power of course but modern servers pull much less power and make much less heat. Data center power usage increased significantly from 1998 to about 2012 and then leveled off.
@@GregHassler you could literally not be more wrong. I’m in the business and in Loudoun and Prince William County Virginia. There are over 20 of them on hold for construction because we can’t power them.
@@marklefler4007 you literally could not be more wrong. I’m in the business and in Loudoun County and Prince William County Virginia. There are over 20 of them on hold for construction because we can’t power them. 32 of them went online last year alone just in Virginia.
The green move was putting the cart before the horse . The sad part is , if you reversed the outcome it still wouldn’t fix the problem ! That in a nut shell is where we are Folks !
There should be a solar package that comes with an EV purchase. Where you buy an EV, the solar installation should be free or the overall cost should be reduced.
I disagree. We need to rely on oil just a little longer to build more sustainable tools. Oil will get phased out eventually but it won’t be as drastic as some states like california is pushing for.
@@tycooperaow It will collapse as every giant does. Yes we need oil and gas in the short term, as you say. But the magic of capitalism is that as soon as the decline begins, probably this decade, it will stop getting new investment, share price will decline rapidly and the industries will spiral into a catastrophic demise taking all the stupidest investors with them. Bankruptcies will accelerate and there will be nothing left to clean up the enormous mess left by those industries. The big players will have taken their money and run long before that and the taxpayer will be on the hook. This is a much much bigger problem than the build up of electricity infrastructure. It is not being talked about.
I'm glad she mentioned appliances toward the beginning. One of the main arguments against EVs are grid stability. Remember, 100s of new homes go up every day, as well as corporate buildings. How do these home run? EVs were never going to be the issue. As mentioned in other comments, the grid needed some improvement anyway as well as the use of alternative fuels.
And one of the largest consumers of electricity is gas stations. If we start reducing the number of gas stations there will be massive electricity savings as well.
I swear 10 years ago we were saying all the same things and almost nothing has changed except now the evs are actually here and the demand is rising quickly
Yes. It can!!! The real question is: Can the grid survive without ECs? EVs will mainly charge when there is surplus capacity. That will make everything much easier.
@@macmcleod1188 thats a relief, 42 miles of range a week....i hope i dont need heat or AC in my car to get 30 miles of use out of that alleged 42 miles......42 miles of range isnt real world use tho. EPA estimates are not accurate in daily use. im sure i can get all my errands and to and from work on 42 theoretical miles a week
@@baldisaerodynamic9692 Dude... that's $250 worth of solar panels. For $1250, you are looking at 200 miles range. And last hurricane, *no one* was driving around because power was out 100 miles all around the city except for government buildings and hospitals. It took a week for power to come back. There was no food in stores. Any extra gasoline was reserved for generators. No one except government vehicles were driving. My two friends with Teslas didn't have solar yet then. Realistically, I'd go with solar power for lights, laptop, cable modem, chest freezer, and phone recharging but with a propane generator for the fridge and one 5000btu A/C. Back that up with 60 gallons of propane ($180 to buy- $45 to refill). But solar is projected to be *even* smaller and even cheaper in only 2 years. My old panel was 4' x 8', generated 81 watts and cost $700. My two new panels were 2'x8', generated 150 watts, and cost $250. I expect in 2 years, they'll be still be 2'x8' but generate 200 watts and cost $200. Big picture- if my current setup saves a friend or myself one $200 fridge of food, it's going to pay for itself in no time. And one friend already had a 12 hour power outage. As one bald to another likely bald guy-- I'm just saying run the numbers every year and don't get attached to any one solution emotionally.
@baldisaerodynamic9692 There is typically a surplus of electricity midday and at night. Also, at the weekend when the industry doesn't use so much. When it is windy and sunny, there might also be a surplus. It is not more complicated than plugging in the car at night, and it starts charging when the price is lowest. It has nothing to do with Big Brother, but it has everything to do with win-win.
I would have like to see more emphasis on battery storage for wind & solar. Home, grid, and industrial. Batteries on the grid, in homes, in factories, and at businesses of all types can greatly reduce the amount of transmission needed to begin with.
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That’s what EVs double as, energy store. The missing element is the smarts. Vehicles should remain connected as much as possible, the smarts dictating when charging occurs. Conversely, if you don’t need X percent of your battery over the next 24 hours, volunteer this back to the grid when required.
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Battery is made with metals that are extracted in far more remote places with little to none environmental safeguards. For as long as it isn’t on American’s backyard , who cares, right. ?
This was a great video, I’ve been considering the grid problem with electric vehicles for a few years now, I live in SoCal and the amount of electric vehicles here especially already puts strain on the grid during hot seasons when AC is needed. Owners of electric vehicles are already asked to charge at night here during heatwaves, so the strain on the grid is already evident.
Gasoline production uses a gross amount of electricity, water, and oil in every gallon. More EVs means less energy intensive gas to produce. Most EVs charge at night strictly due to peoples schedule to drive into work shopping during the day.
The heat waves you allude to are inherently responsible for stressing the grid, not EVs themselves. Heat waves simply trigger enormous demand for energy from the region affected. Putting the blame on EVs (especially at the current rate of penetration) is inaccurate.
@@jonahcabral2425 I suppose what I meant was *additional* strain. AC has always strained the grid during heat waves, but in recent years with the addition of EVs, the problem becomes even worse as there is a steady increase in the need for power with EVs. The regulations I’m speaking of are not imaginary, during heat waves we have more frequent rolling blackouts and people are advised to charge vehicles at night, because charging them during he day when AC is in use strains the grid, that is accurate.
@@jonahcabral2425 also you underestimate the sheer number of electric vehicles in CA. 40% of all electric vehicles sold in the *entire* country were sold in CA in 2021, which now stands at 1.5M vehicles in the state alone. Maybe if you lived here and saw just how many were on the roads here, you’d understand the clear demand for power.
Renewable energy sources are marginally not renewable. Solar panels and supporting batteries are expensive to recycle. The blades on windmills impossible to recycle.
EV are heavier than combustion vehicles which will add more road taxes like in Europe . EV aren’t not friendly for traveling, emergency evacuations , traffic jams .
That's not true. I don't know of one EV use who plugs in his EV right before they go to bed. They do so as soon as they get home...so 6-7PM. Because most trips require only a partial charge, that mean most EV charging occurs between 6-10PM, right at peak electricity demand.
@@howard6433 all EVs produced in the last decade have charge timers in them. Sure they plug in when they get home at 5-6pm but they don't actually start charging until midnight when power is cheaper.
As we add home solar to the grid, it unloads it during the time the sun is up, in the sunny parts of the country. This will unload the grid and it will not be necessary to spend nearly as much as some people say to strengthen the grid. In the older, more densely populated parts of the country, the grid has needed rebuilds for many years now, so get to it. It still will be much less than some people expect.
People will be charging their cars at night, after they get home from work and solar power is done for the day. Most winds die down at night rendering wind power unusable at that time, as well. Our current grid has no storage ability for sustainable energy created during the day to be saved for use at night. In short, we will still need massive upgrades, Ted...
@@DarkPesco well . . . no. You have most of that backwards. Big Wind is mostly bigger at night. And the night is already surplus so there is no point in storing Solar PV from the day. People can charge their car at anytime of day. Most EVs are even programmable for that. So charging during at work is fine, or night at home. While the grid does have some existing storage -- built for Nukes because they cannot handle the daytime peak -- no storage is really needed to continue building out Solar PV for the next decade or two -- we can use all the Solar during the daytime, while it is produced. As far as the overall grid . . . everything on the grid has a Service Life of about 25 to 50 years. So that means we are continually rebuilding and replacing at least 2 to 4% per year. Add in some growth allowance and it can be around 5%. All budgeted and planned as part of Capital Budgets and Operations and Maintenance. Goes on all around most of the time, and folks do not even usually notice.
- Where will you get so much capacity to charge all EV? - From the wall! Like it came to the power outlet by magic. Meanwhile regular shutoffs happened often in the summer. Production and delivery is a big question
It would definitely be possible if ev manufacturers would shift towards the "series hybrid" powertrain Series hybrid electric vehicle: A fully electric vehicle with an on-board generator of which the generator can provide ~2× more power than the car needs to drive. These vehicles have the advantageous use of the generators (and possibly the battery pack) to power entire homes when needed.
Most homes have an average hourly consumption rate than the car going 60 MPH. 5 miles per KWH X12 =60 KWH. That’s more than the average daily consumption of a house. Leave the generator at home,test it under load periodically,do the recommended maintenance,and leave it to your kids in your will. After making my off-grid solar power system,I went ahead and gave the generator to my son to use in his mountain hideout. I realized it was taking up too much space in the barn.
Please excuse my incorrect arithmetic. I still think the generator needs to stay home. 5 M/KWH X12 = 60 miles so that’s only 12 KWH. Since I’m running two all electric houses on my off-grid solar ,I’m always aware of the load and so schedule use of electric dryers to keep the load under the 20KW capacity of the inverter. It surprised me how easy that is to accomplish. Solar panels and batteries are going down in price and up in quality. The secret is to not fall for the scammers selling grid-tie roof top panels that cost 25 years to escape from the contract.
This is like the mainframe computer vs personal computer debates in the early 80's. Distributed generation will be the future. EV battery storage and energy arbitrage make more sense to me than massive grid upgrades. I need legislation that will override my HOA's prohibition against rooftop solar and legislation to counter or ease the restrictive rules of my electric cooperative. I could generate most of my electrical needs plus charge my EV rather than pull that from the grid. Even though it isn't currently economical for me because of the low cost of electricity where I live, I'm willing to make the investment in rooftop solar. I'm just not allowed to do so because of a very backward HOA and a restrictive electric utility.
I'm glad that this question is being asked AT LEAST once a quarter;) You know what question you should really ask: can anyone outside of Tesla supply the necessary EVs?
These estimates of electricity demand are way lower than the predicted need. Elon says we need 3x the current supply, not 30% ish. The new megapack battery farms will allow the grid to expand rapidly and have more parallelism and redundancy needed. We will have a very different grid in a very short period of time.
