the one print he did with a heated chamber and a closed off enclosure didn't warp. and he attributes this to the fillament itself? sorry but these machines and tools didn't deserve this horrible fate of being your posession.
Nice! Do you have an idea as to why they were printed this way? Maybe you can care to share why you think it's a good idea to print all of the materials with the same settings since you are an all-seeing and all knowing god-like creature.
@@NeedItMakeIt print the carbon fibre without heated chamber and with an open top aswel and it will warp the most of all. print the others with a closed enclosure and a heated chamber and they will not warp either. yes even pla can be printed in a heated chamber. you realise they have temperature control right? set up the right temp. and an open printer with draft running past it is the reason you are getting warped prints.
@@darkracer1252 It might be worthwhile taking some time to print some real parts with threads and severe overhangs and come back to see how it worked out for you.
Dude everyone is at different stages of learning. Knowing something another person doesnt, doesnt give you the right to insult them. Science requires us to share info with each other so we can see things and know things we couldn't otherwise as an individual. Thinking in such a negative way doesnt help anyone grow, nor does it foster an environment that promotes learning. If you know something helpful just share it. You are also most likely wrong anyways, because if it was in a heated enclosure the threads would droop before cooling. Maximizing cooling is the play here, since the colder the outer perimeter of plastic material is the faster it will cool the threads and the more accurate the threads will be.
Not necessarily. It’s important that he pointed out that the glass is inside the core of the filament, not uniformly mixed into it. There’s a recent cnckitchen video where he shows with cross-section microscope images that the core of the filament remains in the core of the extrusion after printing. So it’s quite possible that the glass mixed core will remain entombed in an abs sheath and not come in direct contact with the lead screw.
@@dr_traktor The outside laxer of plastic will grind down fairly fast in a use case like that and thus he glass fibers will lay open. Generally speaking you are right, filament flow in laminar out of the nozzle but the part later on will experience stresses.
I'd also be concerned that too small of a nozzle size would expose more of the glass core due to the stiffer (presumably less viscous) material. That said I could see cored filaments worked as long as a large enough nozzle was used, but I'd expect 1.75mm to 0.4mm to be too much of a drop, unless we knew the core was 0.2mm.
@@MakeKasprzak This won´t happen. It´s laminar flow, it will simply stretch into a longer noddle but the ration between core and outer shell stays the same.
Honestly, a couple weeks ago I bought my first filament with such a ziplock and I didn’t notice it in time. Directly after I noticed tho and was super upset i stabbed into it… now I check every filament
Honestly until you said that I had no idea, all of mine are non-zip-lock style, my bad! You may see it in the next video all patched up with some duct tape :)
those pieces are made of bronze for a reason: to avoid damaging the thread. which is expensive to replace. never use glass nor CF in contact to a surface that you want to preserve. I would just do a simple bronze casting. Also you already have the machine to make it even from a lump of bronze, which could be a bit hard because of the wear, but not imposible. if you want more precision, make a tap to make it match. if you want even more precision, make a interference-adjustable nut to eliminate backlash. 3d print would work for a short duration, and you want that. you could bore the right screw out of bronze using the temporal 3d print as a temporal replacement. dont destroy the machine using glass, please.
you can use a paper scanner, to take an exact image of the piece, and put it on your cad software, and calibrate the image dimensions. also. print a "calibration comb" first, instead a whole thread.
Holy smokes Mike. You keep knocking those videos out. Love the channel so far. I'm a mechanical guy that's getting into 3D printing. Your content is what I'm looking for. Good luck on getting those 100k subs .
Thank you! You're going to love the flexibility 3D printing gives you to explore ideas that aren't normally possible with more traditional methods. I'm on a mission and I'll work as many hours as I need to in order to make this a success, or die trying.... I think you're going to really enjoy the next video as well, it's going to include some more testing and some very unique ideas that are hard to produce with anything but 3D printing. After getting my lathe fixed up with these parts, I decided it was time to treat it to a full clean and a new paint job, so it is now in pieces and I'm just waiting for some nice weather to start painting it. I was also thinking that it needs a new stand and I'm not sure if I should do a solid wood frame with maybe some traditional timber-frame connections or a welded steel frame. I could also cast some pieces from Aluminum and combine wood and metal. What do you think?
I used 3d printed nuts(petg) on my prusa mk3 clone z-axis leadscrews, took some work to get the fit right, but they've been working non stop perfectly for more then 3 years. Also no backlash.
You could likely design the parts better so that you don’t need as high stiffness. The original parts are designed to be made of metal and likely to be easy to manufacture. You might be able to better design it so that lower stiffness filaments can be used and that would then allow you to experiment with lubricating filaments like IGUS makes or PC-PTFE or PETG-PTFE, which contains solid lubricant in the filament and makes the parts self lubricating and have low coefficients or friction.
Hmmm. Glass fibers are abrasive bronze is auto lubricating. So you may se some wear coming very quickly with a glass reinforced nut. And keep in mind plastic will never be as stiff as metal whatever you do, especially ABS. So your nut will act like kinda spring under load anyways. You should compare plastic materials to brass and steel to make up your mind. There's feelings and there's materials physics which should be your reference. Personal testing are feelings. The best filament for the job should be IGUS Iglidur, but I guess it's still too flexible for metal lathe applications. I would use a lost PLA brass casting or a SLS 3d print instead. Currently your lathe quality is far to be as good as it should be.
It is also possible to get PTFE blended filaments as an alternative to the IGUS ones. Spectrum make PC-PTFE and PETG-PTFE and at least the PC-PTFE claims to have coefficients of friction equal to that of the best IGUS filaments.
@@conorstewart2214 There are several aspects to this subject, and the friction coefficient is one, but not the only one. Igus polymers have both a very low coefficient of friction and excellent resistance to abrasion. When using a filament reinforced with fibers, it's the screw that will have to withstand the abrasion. And since it's the most complicated part to manufacture, softer materials are usually chosen for the nut. However, I still believe that, regardless of the quality of the polymer, it will never match the precision or rigidity of metal, especially not in this application.
@@axelSixtySix the filaments I mentioned have very good abrasion resistance too. Self lubricating and low coefficients of friction tend to go with high abrasion resistance anyway. PTFE blended filaments are alternatives to IGUS filaments, so IGUS filaments aren't necessarily "The best filament for the job", when there are other filaments with very similar properties that are cheaper and easier to print.
That's very kind of you to say! I have plans to go much much further, I am taking a bit of time to get better setup with a test rig that would go everything all at one station. My thought is that we need to test parts which better represent real world parts, so that's the goal, to come up with something so that we can gain info that's directly applicable to real-life.
With the glass fiber laying in-plane with the print layers, it does make sense you'd see very little warping. The glass is holding the shape. I do wonder if it'll still develop a warp over time, since the plastic is still in differential tension. But it seems the kind of thing you could account for. As for printing materials without glass fiber reinforcement - I've always had better luck with higher temps in an enclosure (except bridging can sometimes get a little worse). So I run even basic (non-dimensional) PLA prints in a heated enclosure. It just solves a lot of problems and makes printing more reliable. I'll never buy another printer without a heated enclosure.
Huh maybe i should keep using glass as well. I have been thinking of "upgrading" :D I guess i could prepare one glass with one of those black tack stickers to get the benefit of bottom texture when i don't want mirror bottom surfaces. I broke my original borosilicate glass after uhhh 6 years or so and then bought an IKEA FREBRO mirror and made a whole bunch of bed surfaces out of it, i think i managed to make 4. Learned glass cutting that day. I also love how i can just span a piece of plywood or cutting mat into the same clips, though i haven't had to yet, but i'll make a quick swappable toolhead system eventually. I installed Ultimaker bed glass clips, i have them jammed between the nuts and the bed permanently installed in the back of the bed, and below the nuts in the front of the bed. I also don't have bed springs any longer, instead i use nut wheels both above and below the carrier, and during manual bed tramming i jam them into the carrier so the bed won't become untrammed or vibrate.
Be VERY careful, it's easy to break the glass, ABS does not only warp when cooling, but shrinks too, you have to yank out the parts while the bed is still hot
+1 to all the comments mentioning hardness differences between the plastic nut and the leadscrew. Assuming that the leadscrew is regular high carbon steel, and possibly undhardened at that, the steel is significantly softer than the glassfibers. Once the "Shell" of the coextruded abs is worn through, that Glassfiber will grind your leadscrew within a few hours of usage... (Try rubbing a cutoff wheel at the leadscrew forces against the old leadscrew and see the kind of wear that produces). In addition, i want to mention that even though this is supposedly coextruded plastic, it will still have less strenght (as in stress at failure) than just the base plastic itself. The only polymer type that gains structural stiffness by adding in cf or gf are the tougher, ductile ones. PCTG, Nylon and Tough PC... ABS and PLA are plenty stiff by themselves. Additional Stiffness will only amplify the negative attributes of high stiffness (awful shock absorption, layer adhesion, etc..). Printed ABS is in my experience also one of the fastest wearing plastics right after pla... petg and pctg are way more forgiving on that front. Pure nylon is a also quite waer resistant, though obviously not an option for this project. The best material here would probably be a high strenght polycarbonate filament without fibre reinforcement. Should be printable on that QIDI printer. The main advantage of fiber filled filaments is print quality, as you have documented in this video.
Another advantage of fiber filled filament is less warping as it breaks up long polymer chains. One disadvantage I have found is that the layer adhesion is better in pure PC vs Carbon Fiber PC. Igus make self lubricating filament, which would be interesting to see if it was suitable for the replacement parts.
From RC helis, don't count on the plastic not wearing out the steel. Plastic loops for ball joints easily wear out the steel balls, etc. 'In comparison, most plastics will have higher wear resistance than metals, including steel. Plastics have low coefficient of friction that allows them to reduce friction between mating surfaces. Less friction means less wear on mechanical parts and equipment.'
For my Z axis on a large scale 3D printer I used IGUS rods but 3D printed nuts (common ABS), because IGUS has nice rods that are affordable, but their nuts are crazy expensive. The way I did was setting the nut area to be 100% infill and the diameter to be equal to the inner diameter of the rods (the diameter without the threads), then I took a cut from the rods (that was an offcut of when the rods were cut to length) and made some perpendicular cuts as an X on the rod, and used a file to bevel it, making a tap out of it. Then I used the tap to make the threads on the plastic material. It was a bit snug on the rods, so I just put the rod on a drill and went back and forth until the friction and heat deformed the plastic to be just right. Then I lubed the rods with lithium spray grease and the nuts lasted for quite some time.
I think this demonstrates one of the great features of 3d printing. Testing, iteration and development. Not getting into the whole materials discussion aspect going on, i.e. glass fiber and metal wear. I'd think the next step was a nice quality resin print in lost wax material and have some new bronze nut blanks cast, since it is a bit of an odd shaped part to be accurate to the original.
Nice! I'm still in the process of upgrading my printers to do high temp materials. That said, PLA never ceases to impress me, holding its own in your break tests. For your functional part, it was fascinating to see that the glass core filament worked so well, trading higher stiffness for some brittleness.
The problem i've had with PLA is that while it's impressive out of the printer, 2 years later, loaded prints have all failed. And i've had a printer for 7 years now i think. They have showed yellowing, crazing around pressure spots, and exploded into sharp shards, when initially prints are extremely tough. I rather deal with deficiencies of PETG and HIPS because they don't experience any changes with passage of time.
Thanks for the informative review. I have a couple old Atlas machines that could use some fit improvements and a couple gears which I plan to make with Tough PLA. I have repaired a couple traveling lawn sprinklers (tractors) with 3D printed Nylon worms and Tough PLA wheel gears that have lasted several years so far.
Thanks, that's my thought as well! We're not quite there yet with making truly industrial parts, but I think that's coming soon. I can feel that there is something coming and it's BIG. I think printing gives us a way to invent and innovate and challenge ourselves as well, good for the old brain.
Awesome Video, lol, Loved the smart comments about squids and why my decision to buy a New 2024 R7 was a Great idea...! I've had my R7 for about 2.5 weeks now and already put 1280 Fantastic miles on it and added a few much needed modifications that make this bike what I've Always wanted in a Fun, commuter bike that gets ridden at Every opportunity. Thank you for making this Awesome video and stroking my ego all at the same time, haha, I'm Very happy regardless, but it definitely made me smile, laugh and nod my head in agreement with you and my decision. 😅🤙🏼🏍️💨
@NeedItMakeIt I noticed at 7:34 you tried pulling the print right off the heated bed. One trick I use, is I have a piece of steel (stainless steel work bench) that I take the plate off and place the build plate on it. I've found this rapidly cools the build plate and I quickly get the satisfying pop and crackle of the build realeasing from the plate.
A few comments: 1) I ~love~ the texture on the glass fiber filament. It hides the layer lines very well and looks fantastic, though I'd like it in a wood brown I think 2) Please give an update on how these parts hold up over time! I have my doubts about a plastic (or even glass) part that is mushed inside a steel machine, but I am hopeful. 3) Great video! Just discovered this channel, and this video is full of good information and presented well.
Thanks! Well the long-term plan is to replace the high-load parts with brass or bronze, I'm not 100% sure which direction to go to make them yet, I was thinking to machine them myself but I also want to try to cast some myself. I may also try machining them. I've taken the lathe apart to do a full cleaning an restoration, but so far I haven't noticed any change in backlash. I might do a follow up to this video testing some different materials in a way that relates to your question though, I have a few ideas of how to do this also.
I've used the XY compensation in the slicer for threads too till you get the fit you are looking for. Could easily give clearance in Fusion as well which would be the way to go if you are sending out for a machining process. You will have to have different Gcode than your slicer produces. Fusion will do that. Two different animals. I would give them the screw to match the nut to. Chances are that the ACME thread that the screw was made from is not a precision ground screw like OEM would of done. A DRO would solve that inaccuracy at least as far as travel goes compared to your dial on the lathe. It may be acceptable depending on what you are doing. Once you start putting more load on your tool you will find that any plastic is not that good at all. Repeatability will be hard to get but use your print to get by to make a metal one. I would single point that thread. Grinding a HS tool is not that hard to do. THere are good loads put on the tool making ACME threads especially. You could also make a tap out of the old unworn part of the screws to do a final cleanup. Your thread dial needs to be held tight so it won't swing any while cutting threads. You may find that that crappy fix of that screw won't work with a tight tolerance bronze nut or at least it will have a tight spot every turn.
If it was a regular mix like most CF filaments definitely a problem, but it being glass-core filament (possibly a glass+plastic core surrounded by a pure plastic), it's possible the outer plastic might protect it (until it wears). That said, I wasn't paying attention to the nozzle size, so depending on the thickness of the glass core, the "protective plastic" might have yielded to the stiffer glass core as it passed through the nozzle. Tangentially, I would expect a CHT nozzle to defeat the purpose of a filled-core filament.
@@MichaelTavel that all depends on how much it was used, the brass nut and the original lead screw were likely heavily used. Having plastic with very hard and sharp fibres in it will likely make it wear the lead screw a lot faster.
I would've thought bronze filament would have better lubricating properties while staying a bit durable for plastic. Glass fibers, while stiff, are essentially abrasives, and more prized for their strength and chemical resistance; than as a metal alternative. The wall thickness, when forced into close proximity with the glass fibers and plastic; is what gives their mechanical resilliance. Similarly, in injection molding the "fuzz" or roughened surface texture comes from a lack of pressure to force the glass fibers into the part surface against the polished mold surface. So the molten resin is essentially allowing the glass fibers to "float", and not forced into close proximity with the remaining plastic surface. Flame polishing may help the plastic to "wick" into the texture that is otherwise essentially sand paper. Like your content, and this is not intended as a criticism; but I would love if you went into some technical specs, or some of your thought process when making these parts with the materials; instead of simply showing them printing or in use.
😊 Information it is a nice try but it wont hold up onto heavy stress. We printed a set of gears to get some special thread gears they hold up until the load gets to heavy. Shearforce between metal and plastic kills the plastic. May seem obvious when you read it but sometimes there are illusions what plastics can do.
I'd strongly recommend you repeat this same test with Siraya Tech Fibreheart PET-CF. NOT PETG-CF. This will not warp and has a far higher stiffnesss- 2x to 2.5x of PETG-CF. And ~50% greater breaking strength. High dimensional stability. Also much higher temp rating and lower creep under high temp/high load, esp if annealed. Dry at least 70C. Print 110C G10 Garrolite bed 300C nozzle 50C chamber. They recommend to anneal at 100C -120C for 8-10 hrs, preferably with a specific temp profile. They're incredibly tough without the annealing effort, but it does create a inherent structural change which shrinks the part a precise and repeatable amount that can be compensated for. Same for polycarbonate (PC). Try transparent Overture PC first. Its higher melting temp indicates it's either not a blend or blended with a higher % of PC. Pigmented versions are not as stiff but correspondingly higher impact strength due to not being a ceramic analog like pure, transparent PC is Much much stronger, stiffer, similar temps than what you've tried so far (but PET-CF is better but I've not mastered overhangs in PET-CF yet and at least non-filled versions of PC ) and again, G10 Garrolite build plate and annealing. There's also GF and CF filled versions. What's you've got is great, but these and going to blow your mind and you will not see 3D printing the same again.
You should try polymide pa6cf filament from polymaker, it can endure temperatures over 190 and according to polymaker up to 215 degrees C, it's very stiff and has insane impact resistance. Its only negative aspect is the price, yet still cheaper than Peek.
If you think about, the glass fibres being in the centre of the filament is meaningless when you're taking a 1.75mm diameter filament and extruding it through a 0.4mm nozzle. So you're still going to end up with reduced layer adhesion as a result of the glass 'contamination'. Good to see the project worked oat for you though!
I think the GF isn't really giving you what you expect, it does give you stiffness and it seems to be pretty stable, but it's not tough like you'd see with any GF products. Those long strands are missing in the same way they're missing in a CF filament.
I’ve used ABS-GF with excellent results. Rough surface finish but the GF-core of yours probably addresses that. A friend said his E3D Obxidian nozzle was destroyed by printing GF filament, but I’ve had no issue with mine. Another excellent option for high-load/high-wear parts is PA6-CF/GF. The specs on Polymaker’s PA6-CF are out of this world, and it prints beautifully as well. MUCH higher tensile strength than ABS, especially if annealed in a water bath (80C for 4-6 hours). I love your testing rigs. I use a hi-lift jack and similar digital scale for tensile testing. I’ve printed a bunch of test parts in PA6-CF to see how my numbers compare with Polymaker’s, but I haven’t done the measurements yet. Also: Vision Miner “nano polymer” bed adhesive works wonderfully for ABS and doesn’t build up like glue stick does. I still use glue stick for PETG, however.
I've done this. it works fine even with pla but the screw that hold it will mess up the hole in little time. The best ive done is heat up the screw and use a delrin rod. You can pre drill the rod then just screw it on the hot screw. run it through with a drill or impact wrench. Cut off the extra material and voila you have a 0 tolerance nut that slice very well.
I'll probably get it made from brass, but this was a pretty good test, because I'm using the lathe and it's so much nicer, it was just terrible before. I think Delrin would be better than what I did, but it's all an experiment, can you do this if you were in a bind, yeah, it works, and could be a good temporary solution for people that have a broken part.
@@NeedItMakeIt To be honest brass is not your best choice of yellow metal for a transit nut on acme threads. Bronze or gunmetal is far preferable to plain brass.
Niiiiice, this filament is great. There are also different types of glass fillings. There is the "regular" fiber types but there are also spherical balls filling type. Their advantage is that mechanical forces behave better with round shapes, there is no notch effect. But you need to be careful because all those filament are highly abrasive, they will increase wear of your metal parts and probably damage them over time. An other method could be to print a master part and use a low melting point alloy like aluminium or even zinc. If tight tolerances are needed try to create bores, those have a very high tolerance. So for instance you can cast a fairly complex zinc part and then create bores and tap it hight tolerances at home.
Very interesting printing experiments here but the glass fill material will work with an abrasive action on your leadscrew. There have been some really useful experiments carried out with Acetal Copolymer plastic bar/rod where a piece of leadscrew is heated with a hot air gun and 2 half round segments of the Acetal plastic are squeezed together until no gap exists between them. The resulting plastic nut can be unscrewed from the thread after it has cooled and solidified. The process was nicknamed the 'Evanut' after the guy who came up with the idea. It has been shared many times on home model engineering sites. I have tried it with very successful outcomes. It is easily achievable to get near zero backlash with the 'Evanut' method. If you are going down the route of making a new nut from yellow metal then bronze or gunmetal are far superior to plain brass.
Excellent work! So for the screws vs nuts where glass fiber could be a concern....... Just lube it with something that doesn't attack your printed parts. It'll take a long time to wear down the screw.
@NeedItMakeIt have you tried a thinner layer of glue stick? Do several swipes on the build plate and then rub it in with 99% Isopropyl. A very fine layer is all that is needed for adhesion, way less mess on the build plate and printed parts. To refresh the plate just wipe with the isopropyl between prints. I reapply glue stick every 8-12 prints. No issues.
I did that for a while, but I’ve switched to using “suave max hold” hairspray. I’ve tried about 10 different brands but this doesn’t foam, no residue, minimal odorants. And one single wet coat dried on the glass or PEI holds stronger than any stick glue I’ve ever used. Also can be refreshed with the isopropyl method you mentioned.
this even works with a slightly wet towel, no need for iso, because when heating up the bed all the water evaporates. I tried both and found the wet towel easier to use because it does not evaporate so quickly whilst spreading it out on the bed and you can save the iso for actual cleaning. I also use a wet towel to remove the marks after the print was removed, so it doesn't show up on the next one.
@@Noxoreos I have tried "reincorporation" using water, but I found that water will actually cause it to break down chemically. It will turn into something like a gel that stays sticky and tacky. The platter should look as nothing is on it at all and dry. Just fyi. Cheers!
@@KevinDC5 It possibly depends on the gluestick, but cheap gluesticks that contain pva don't break down like that. I didn't experience any. And yes the film is completely invisible, until you remove a part from the bed, which roughs the glue up and then re-doing ther makes it invisible again.
Great video. As a suggestion, instead of asking people to subscribe to make the best channel ever, ask them what content they want to see that would make them subscribe. Your goal is not their goal. People will subscribe if you provide them the content they are looking for and they look forward to seeing the next one. Good luck!
Thanks, suggestion noted. Maybe it was bit bold; that's how it came out and I decided to keep it. The way I am in general is quite blunt and I can be too honest sometimes. I want to bring the best 3D printing content to everyone that I possibly can of course, that's key. I believe that it's important to state my goals, if people know the goal they know that I'm going to work as hard as I can to find a way to be successful, and to do that, I need to make good and eventually great content. I appreciate your candidness and I will certainly think about it, I can't promise that I will change the way that I am or the way I would word things because I believe that I should be myself and not an actor.
Try printing out of PC or a super hard TPU instead, 70 or 80D is super abrasion resistant, can be very smooth, and very very strong. Your GF filler is super abrasive and high friction. 80D filament is (almost) unobtainium but if you can get it it's the same hardness as a construction hard hat.
5 месяцев назад
Ive got 70d or so, and just slightly harder would be heaven!
There is another youtube channel that tested (my tech fun), TPU was by far the best. PC was not that great from their example at least. Then add whatever grease is compatible with it.
Information glass will grind metal. Since we sandblast with glass. The question is just how much in what time. Theres a mechanic the made some lapping 3d prints. He embeeded diamond paste onto the lapping print and lapped some steel to a mirror finish. So it is an illusion to think glass wont work steel. It does and after a few 100 moves the steel will be polished and some what deformed.
Don't underestimate the forces handled by a lathe lead screw. It might work for a shor period, but be prepared to change them out regularly. The filament contains glass particles,it WILL wear out your lead screw!
Yes, I agree. I can apply a force of nearly 250lbs, the handle is quite small and it's hard to get any more than that. My woodworking vises are closer to 600lbs and my giant ATHOL No95 vise is over 2000lbs. I have a couple of load cells and it's fun to test these things out even though I'd never use close to that force for anything I do. Can you do me a solid and check out the follow up video and see what you think. I've since threaded and installed the piece as well and it works perfectly. ru-vid.com/video/%D0%B2%D0%B8%D0%B4%D0%B5%D0%BE-o1vrfEl1uc8.html
What you can also do is, print the thing completely hollow, single perimeter and the top layer missing, and then fill it up with epoxy with chopped carbon fibre or glass fibre.
Well, I must say that warpage isn't as far of a problem to me, than what is shown here. I tested multiple meterials in very a similar way on a "00" rated surface plate and I managed to get all my test samples completely flat. I'm using a P1P in an enclosed box made from fabric and aluminium foil. The Materials i tested were, ABS, PLA, PLA+, PLA-Silk, PLA-CF5, PLA-CF15, PLA-CF20, PETG, PETG-CF15, PETG-CF20, Qidi ABS-GF25, PC, PA-6, PA-12 and PA6-CF15, PA12-CF20. I was able to tune all of their settings to avoid warping completely. Anything with a highter percentage of CF or GF was easier to print without warping. Oftentimes it very much depends on the part itself and the more material is layed down, the harder it is to counteract warping. Also parts may be stronger under certain conditions, when they are actually not printed solid. Print speed, cooling and temperature are the most important factors to counteract warping. If you feel like you need a stronger bed adhesive, then the settings are probably not good enough, because that means you have a lot of internal stress in the print, which also makes it weaker. Parts printed solid usually also have more internal stress.
I think that's the main reason why most people don't experience too much warpage, when we begin to print towards the solid range, the stresses can begin to overcome either the bond with the buildplate, the attraction between the plate and the magnet, or they'll warp during the cooldown. As people want to print larger parts and more solid parts, it will become more important to tune like you've done for the best results. Printing PLA in an enclosure is possible of course, but when it comes to overhangs on parts like I've made here, it becomes way too hard to achieve good results with PLA. I have run some tests after the video, however those tests were all complete failures. Slowing the print speed helps quite a bit, but does not solve the problem. Long-term I don't think that FDM is the solution, I believe that we're going to see a shift to more industrial style printers at home, small scale. Printing solid parts is a good temporary solution though.
Yeah I think I'll skip on glass. I've had fiberglass reinforced rods which constantly gave me glass splinters. Nothing worse than glass splinters. It's also just so abrasive. I would think it would wear out your other parts so much faster. That high-perf PLA looked good. Stick with the easy stuff!
Nice. I’ve been enjoying printing with that filament. 99.5% shrinkage; almost nothing. I’ve also been using the Phaetus aeworthy ABS-GF for a more general purpose 10% fiberglass filament; they have an equivalent to the GF25 now too. I just find all these options print much better than CF-based composites. Also with your load tests, you might want to investigate how different infill patterns and print angles affect the stiffness and robustness of the final part. With composites you get extra strength in the direction of the extrusion, which implies there is some potential for eeking out even more benefits.
remember to use a hardened steel at least (preferably even harder) nozzle when printing with fiberglass. usual brass nozzle will wear over single-digit prints
Good point. I think most newer printers are coming with a bi-metal nozzle, thanks for mentioning that, and technically the extruder should have hardened gears as well, it's quite a hard thing to measure unless you have two identical printers printing the same parts over a long period of time with different materials, so how much wear there is exactly on extruder gears, I'm only going from what I've read. I'd imagine it would be a good idea though.
Now you just need one of those fancy SLS metal printers for the last forever final product and looks like you already have all the tools to adjust a metal part.
Would be cool to get the parts in 3D printed brass, if it's not crazy expensive. Or maybe just get a brass inlay with the threads and heatpress them into a plastic carrier part.
I’m confused as to why you tried to print threads especially out of an abrasive. Was it not feasible to just purchase a lead screw nut and create a 3d printed housing for it to fit it to your lathe?
Go with clean Nylon (ABS not wear resistant, lower temperature of melt, and glass fiber is abrasive). Or you can go with Nylon GF. I love ABS but it not for current case.
Just as a sidenote, I got PLA warping in my bambu X1 on the old, black textured plate. When I switched to the new, gold textured plate, all my adhesion issues disapeared. I would highly reccomend getting a gold plate and ditching the smooth plate+glue combo the machine came with stock
That's a great tip, thanks, In my case, the warpage I have is when pulling up on the buildplate and away from the magnet, the bond is quite good to the smooth plate... with glue like you ay of course. I did an entire video on the subject because most people have no idea their parts are warping because even though the bond is good to the buildplate, it still can pull up and away from the magnet. I print mainly structural parts, they're more prone to warpage due to heavy walls and infill as well. It may not be something everyone experiences.
@@jackgamer6307 A thicker plate could help as well, warmer chamber does help, but it is an issue with PLA to cool the overhangs well enough, Personally I don't print enough with PLA to warrant looking into it too deep, but it's just something that people should be aware of if they print heavy parts.
@@NeedItMakeIt Never had PLA warp so bad to pull my plate up. Once I switched to the gold plate, I started printing at 50° bed with open top and door (X1C). Also, I don't think a thicker bed is an option for most printers, and if it is, it's only avalible trough 3rd parties
@@jackgamer6307 It is completely dependent on your part size, shape and print settings, to some extent the filament/brant etc. If you print a long thin part that's nearly solid it will want to do this. Unless you put your stuff on a surface plate it's hard to notice the warp though, this is something I only really picked up on about 6 months ago while I was trying to make more accurate parts. Textured or no texture won't do much to reduce the internal stresses due to the cooling of the plastic. I agree that the textured surface of the plate does a better job of keeping the part stuck to the buildplate though, that's something that I've had pretty good success with too. Sometimes I prefer the smooth surface depending on what I'm printing though.
Thanks, I'm always trying to improve and I'm up for the challenge, so we'll see what happens. If I don't meet the goal, I'll have to do a failure challenge of some kind. If I do, I'll have to do a success challenge. Lots more videos to come! I'm only just getting warmed up!
It should be easy enough with the right tools, I don't have the right tools, I'd need to custom grind some tooling and it's probably going to be something that I will try, the issue is that the bores are very small. I would imagine that both of these parts would have been tapped rather than single point threaded on the lathe. It's still a good challenge, I will also be looking at getting them CNC machined to see if from my 3D model I can get something that fits the screws correctly since there will be very little give in a brass or bronze machined part. That should be coming soon, within the next few weeks.
I've found most warping can be prevented with proper settings. I can't speak for ABS, but I run a lot of PETG and never had warping once I went with no cooling on the first 50 layers (on polyamide/kapton tape bed). Once you've dialed in heat and flow rate, there was never an issue with overhangs either.
Custom acme thread? Actually, 10 tpi is the precise matching increments on your control dials. Or, .100 inch per revolution. I suggest lubing the screws/ways and apply the smallest of pressures on the plastic parts, lock in the cross & compound, then set the lash to neutral before making any passes. Congrats on getting a thread printed to such a tolerance, but it's not machined, so the tolerances may be set by fit in only 2 opposing places anywhere along the printed thread length.
Multi material print would be interesting green for outer with a different core ie petg as it will allow a flex of inner core. Not that dissimilar to steel reinforced concrete.
hey, at least he's trying, give him positive ideas to make it viable, any idea is worth pursuing, mayb one day we can be backers for him implementing our ideas>yes?
I would suggest a slightly different approach, first is to buy Igus filament it is vastly better than any conventional option (I150-PF will be fine, you need to print it really hot) and also I would buy or make a tap to finish the threads. You can print close to size and then use the tap, it will be much faster and easier (and just simply work better) than trying to print a nut.
I guess I could try it on a standard acme thread for a test, my threads were non-standard and are not available to purchase sadly, but I like your ideas! Igus seems to be a popular solution and I hadn't thought of it myself, so I appreciate the feedback on it!
Thank you, and speaking of dryers, the new dryers seem to be closed system, which is a bit confusing, wouldn't it make sense to evacuate the hot humid air at least every so often? I can see their design being better to reduce heat loss, but at the expense of being able to adequately dry some filaments. Can I get your thoughts on this?
@@NeedItMakeIt good question, I never use CF or GF filaments, I hate the idea of breathing this tiny fragments. But for my nylon filament, I just put them in a cheap oven and I open the doors for a few seconds every 30 - 45 min. On my polymaker copa, it works well.
@@chatroux399 I'll give it a go, I've been wanting to try it for a while, I was just not wanting to deal with the moisture issues that come with it. If it's easy enough, I'll try it out.
I was thinking about putting together a test for this. I think for a lathe with minimal use like mine, it isn't a big problem, for something that's being used non-stop, that may be a different story. I'm in the process of getting some parts CNC machined from Brass and Bronze and I'll have a follow up to the video as well. I am also cleaning and then re-paining the lathe, so it should be a pretty nice unit if everything comes together.
The original brass or bronze nut has high lubricity against the steel lead screw, leading to minimal wear. Glass filled plastic is extremely abrasive. All plain lead screws have backlash. This however does not prevent doing accurate work.
I have a brass piece on the way which is CNC machined based on the model we created, it'll be interesting to see if it works at all, I think a resin printer for the nut would have been a better option, I don't have resin at the moment, but I might just have to pick one up and see what it can do. I'll have a follow up video as well for this one!
Thanks, It seems like there can be some uses for this material. Quite a few people seem to think this is a poor choice for the nut because it will wear the screw, but this for me was just a stop-gap solution so I'm not too worried about it.
Carbon/Glass filament is not what you imagine. It is a carbon puller and not a Cabon/gals barrel, so it does not become more stable in terms of tensile force, since there are no barrels that transmit the tensile force. It's actually a shame when you pay more and it's no better than the original material. It's a Goggle translation, sorry for the errors
I understand, it's really a bit misleading because we don't have those long strands, they are stiffer, but they're also more brittle because they're missing that critical component that you're speaking about. Great points.
Yeah, reminds me a lot of some cast iron pieces, I would have loved to do a test and add in some different metals, but I know they'd just blow the plastics away, most of them anyway.
Im not sure this is a good idea. The reason brass is used is because brass is softer than steel, its designed to wear away rather then the lead screw. Now given it seems like you were easily able to replace the leadscrew but not find a replacement nut it might be fine, but i wouldnt use glass filled filamnet as the glass will act as an abrasive and sand away the leadscrew over time. I get that this is a glass core rather than a uniform filled glass folament but I think you're better off selecting the closest filament that meets your mechanical needs. Additionally this part does not look like a complicated part, if that leadscrew is a standard design i would either look to see if theres a nut you can buy and design an adapter off of, or see if you can get a quote from a few cnc shops to see what it might cost to get a handfull made. That being said if a plastic printed part is strong enough for your needs then i see no need to do anything complicated. Additionally because you probably have some room to improve the strength of that part like making the nut longer to distribute forces over a larger area.
Wont the glass fibers REALLY grind away the rod once the plastic wears away and exposes the fibers (Which is very much a matter of short time)? glass is very abrasive and that is a stiff price to pay just for some... extra stiffness.
Oh man...if you only did lost PLA metal molding...just a few dozen coats of ceramic slurry, then a burnout in a kiln to melt out the PLA...then pour the parts in bullet brass...that would be an awesome build! Or just machine your own I guess...Windy Hill Foundry could make the body in cast iron for sure! Awesome stuff! I like functional prints...this is why I subbed to you and Functional Print Friday as well :) Kinda like this ru-vid.com/video/%D0%B2%D0%B8%D0%B4%D0%B5%D0%BE-Z5793_0LWGU.html Keep em coming!!!!
It sounds like it's meant for fish tank maintenance, I'll check it out, but I've had great success with glue stick... with one exception; Dollar store no-name glue stick was terrible! Elmers works really well for me. I never worry about adhesion regardless of which material I'm printing with.
Qidi carbon fiber and fiberglass filaments cant be beat... i have well over 10 spools of each and every cf anf gf filaments Qidi makes in my shop at all times. I primarily print in Cf, gf, and kevlar filaments. Ive tried every brand, tested every brand... andnQidi filaments as a whole are my absolute favorite. The finishes on Qidi filaments is incredible, the strength and high wear their filaments are unmatched. I was a polymaker fan boy, until i bought Qidi filaments. I still love polymaker filaments, but no where near as much as Qidi's. Excellent video my friend
10=/=12 Noted! Had a similar issue when trying to print a replacement part for a ski pole for someone. Looked like Acme thread, turned out to be metric trapezoidal. Wow, those results look awesome overall. Having the slightly rough surface could be a good thing if you print with tight tolerances and wear the part in with the lead screw. Could compact the surface and make it even more wear resistant. Just a theory. I imagine some sticky grease would help prevent any wear and take up even more slack. The flatness of the glass fiber print is really impressive! The bending and breaking test is super interesting too. Stiff and brittle should be good for threads.
LOL, brutal it too so many attempts to get the thread to work, why doesn't Fusion show many many TPI are on the ACME thread like it does for others? Now that I have the model and I have the lathe working with little backlash, I'm going to take that model and see if I can have one CNC machined, I have no idea if it will fit like the plastic version, but I'd like to give it a go. I know the plastic isn't the best solution in the end, but the dial I think works well, it won't take too much abuse and just needs some paint. I need to learn to thread on the lathe so that I can make some replacement parts too. I thought the stiffness was good, the flatness was good, it was printed on the Q1 in a heated chamber, and so was the ABS. I guess I should have tried PC as well, maybe I'll do a quick sample now to see how it compares off camera just for fun. It's pretty stiff as well. Overall it was a good experiment and I think 3D printing can be used more than we think. Printing 100% solid helps quite a bit as well, I've never had results like that with PETG before, normally it shatters into 100 pieces all over the shop.
@@binyominmartin3308 Sadly, there are hundreds of filament options, if there is interest, I can always do a follow up video with more suitable materials. I unfortunately don't have the resources... yet, to purchase and keep each on hand, but I hope to get to that point and really pull out all of the stops to do more complete testing. It sounds like there is some interest in a follow up video so I'll start to think about what it should look like and what tests I should perform. I think Igus is a good candidate, also Nylon, POM is apparently toxic to print, so I'll leave that one alone.
@@binyominmartin3308 POM is Acetal or Delrin, it's also very common but it'd be machined rather than printed. Nylon seems to me that it would be too flexible, unless you add the GF and people seem to be against the glass because they think it will wear down the screw too fast. Maybe that's the case based on lots of use and no form of lubrication. In any case, Nylon is a good one to try out and Igus because it is engineered for these kinds of applications. Nylon being prone to moisture absorption is something that has prevented me from wanting to use it.
