Posthumous glorification is sometimes the case with luminaries that were under-appreciated by their contemporary audience/peers. Many poets, authors, political thinkers, philosophers, etc., are now more famous and respected than when they were alive. That said, it is often in these cases that the modern audience misinterprets or misrepresents or reduces (loss of nuance) the offerings of that dead person (and they are not around now, obviously, to offer any correction or clarification or challenge or demonstration of how their own thinking changed on the subject in their own life).
Mike Mentzer the recovery advocate. Mentzer the log book advocate. Mentzer the systematizer. That is how he should be remembered. It is good that we know things now we did not know 40 years ago and can improve our training based on that knowledge.
I absolutely agree. I feel like if Mentzer had access to the training data we have now, he's exactly the sort of guy who would adapt his method to the current science.
Yeah. I mean, all I know is that when I started doing only one set push ups to almost failure only once every 3-5 days, my reps absolutely shot up. So,,:maybe HIT doesn’t work for everyone or every exercise...I don’t know...but it sure seems to work for me.
@@collectivismkills Anything will work, as long as you rest enough and then do it again. People who criticize Mentzer (or any other approach) are just mad over nothing
Me to, I did 2/3 different programs for a 1 year and a half. Discovered Mentzer last summer and the result has been amazing since. Not just muscles, but also my mind is better. I am much more focused at training and at my diet. I realy do not care anymore about everybody out there who wants to attack MM, his program for training, diet and resting has worked Wonder for me. First I was very sceptic, but then I just went for it and never looked back. He stil be wrong or very wrong about somethings, I have my self changed some of it, like not doing superset anymore, but if his program is wrong, my experince is that many other programs is much more wrong.
@@HerkulesNorskYep. I hear you and agree. And for me, as an older lifter (51 years), doing more than like a 45min workout is too much. I noticed with doing only one set, maybe 2 here and there, to relative failure, and then taking a day or two off between workouts, I could still progress without burning out. As I’m not on PEDs or even any TRT, it’s a very delicate balance at my age between progress and burnout. I discovered HIT almost by accident. During workouts I would do some exercises only one set for times sake, and because they were not my favorite. Interestingly though, it was in these exercises that I saw the most progress…quite rapid actually. This was surprising to me, but then I ran into Mentzer on youtube and it made sense. Maybe his program is not the end all be all, but it seems to work for me rather well. The only mod I make is to not go to absolute failure, but only relative failure (one or two reps before).
As someone who also does this, I very much respect your ability to create unorthodox allegories or analogies like "the HIT Monster" and just run with them for extended periods of time.
@@icetray2727Very true. Sad thing is I almost can’t blame them. When I first tried it I was worried it wasn’t going to work. It was a leap of faith, but when I saw my performance explode in such a short amount of time… I knew this would be the only way I would train for the rest of my life. Thank god I listened to Dorian and Mike.
@@justaguy5345I’ve been using his methods for close to two years now and tweaked it overtime. My way is a warmup set, light set close to failure at 12-15 rep range, then two sets 6-10 reps with a drop set or pause set to ensure failure and get more volume in. What’s your way of working out?
If a new or intermediate comes up to me and asks "which bodybuilders program should I copy", which answer is best? Ronnie Coleman? Jay Cutler? Arnold? No: Mike Mentzer. Why? For 2 main reasons: 1) It teaches proper technique, intensity and appreciation of recovery from the get go, and 2) It can be expanded upon. Starting with 3 workouts a week, 1-2 exercises per bodypart is a great foundation. Perfect it then starting adding. Add to the Leg Extension and Leg Press a Hack Squat and see what happens. Add to the Chest Fly and Chest Press some Cable Crossovers and see what happens. But with it all done with: 1) Full ROM 2) To or near failure 3) Emphasis on the negative 4) With plenty of recovery It's a great foundation.
The line about gaining wisdom through intelligently absorbing what the crowd is doing is a great example of why I love my membership here. The gems about life.
I loved that too. Reminds me of Bruce Lee's philosophy. It was something along the lines of "Take in what is useful, reject what is useless, add what is specifically your own."
Definitely true though. If you work your way smartly through that crowd it's very likely that there are both experts and professional practitioners in the crowd. They've got the good stuff
Honestly you can counter a lot of teachings of Mike Mentzer with modern science be it a single set per muscle or holding muscle in concentric position for a time. But you can't deny the fact that dude was way ahead of his time considering his views on high intensity, recovery and removal of junk volume from training. Dude pretty much set up the foundation of modern exercise science.
modern science lol, modern science is only modern today, tomorrow it will change, science is the only profession where you can be wrong over and over again and still not lose your job, all you have to say is the science has changed.
"cutting slack" is something you do when on a line (rope) like in rock climbing, but i'd imagine the term comes from sailing. by cutting slack, you give them more rope to move around with, thereby giving them more freedom. when you take slack, it makes the rope tighter so it's harder to move around
But why is it "cutting" slack? Does that part of the expression use a different expression? Give me some slack makes sense, but you're not cutting the slack off and handing it to them.
@@DILFDylFMay just be linguistics at work like with many other expressions in the english language. The only other origin I know for slack is the movement between train carts, meaning the space between them as they are often tied loosely. 'Cutting' may refer to 'cutting the distance' between them, making the bond tighter and reducing movement.
@@vnm.eyeless Yeah I just went back and forth with ChatGPT about it and nothing got cut, even in the nautical sense. Rope was untied to allow for more flexibility. Soooo it's just kind of a dumb expression. Give me some slack would make more sense but 🤷🏽
10 years of natural bodybuilding and I've tried every training style, a modified variant of HIT works the best for me, closer to Dorian Yates style of training. I've made the best muscle and strength gains on HIT as a advanced lifter
@@ViktorM1 with advanced you mean that you have your fundamentals dialed in (nutrition, sleeping, recovery and technique) and also that after properly done training (example few mesocycles) you see minimal results, because you are so close to your potential that returns are diminished.
@@Eustres That’s your definition of an advanced, I would say after 5 years of dialed in training and nutrition. I’m dialed in and advanced according to your definition. And with adjustments in my training program and training style I’ve made better progress than the previous years
Dr. Mike is Goku in that everything he approaches is science based. Absolutely work your ass off, but be efficient and intelligent about it, and remember to eat and rest properly. Goggins is Vegeta, work until you pass out, then get up and work again.
David isn’t really training for the purpose of hypertrophy or getting jacked, he just wants to inflect the most amount of pain upon himself and go beyond his capabilities, I read both his books he’s inhuman lol
I wouldn't say Goggins works out per se. He just administers great amounts of pain to himself. He is professional pain-applier. I think he would die before he starts getting sufficient rest and limit himself so as to not overtrain.
This is what I like about the fitness industry right now different school of ideas colliding at each other and me as a consumer pick up what I can learn to accommodate my own training needs thank you for this dr mike
I've never been a podcast or RU-vid guy until I found your channel. Your advice and input has certainly broadened my view and helped me look at everything from the gym to life in another light. I certainly enjoy the content and always love seeing more
Before critiquing Mike Mentzer's training method, better 1st have a look at this book and the links: High-Intensity Training the Mike Mentzer Way book Mike Mentzer and the science of heavy duty training ru-vid.com/video/%D0%B2%D0%B8%D0%B4%D0%B5%D0%BE-ZmPeiTucPiA.html Mike Mentzer did not build all his size with volume training ru-vid.com/video/%D0%B2%D0%B8%D0%B4%D0%B5%D0%BE-G2L3Y7FPHas.html
Loved the part about getting work focused, not goal focused. I think this is so important. People ask me what I’m training for… I’m not training for anything. I’m training to get better, forever, or for as long as I possibly can. It’s about habits for me, not end goals. Goals give you a reason to quit, stop or question yourself, if you get there.
Not sure that I fully agree with this. Having smaller goals that build towards a greater trajectory of achievement can be really great for sustaining motivation. Keeps me not just going, but pushing myself to do better.
"I'll just block you." -- Most of Mike's humor goes over (or under) my head, but this one got me lol. So did his "beast" imitation and Ronnie Coleman imitation! ... Another great video that is sure to stir up all the Mike Mentzer fan boys, maybe the Randroids, too.
What about the part where Mentzer speaks on realistic amounts of muscle that can be gained and the amount of calories and protein required for gaining muscle? Especially the part where he talks about how muscle is primarily composed of water. I think that would be an interesting topic to dissect.
Lots of hookups in band class. We had practice rooms with locks on the doors. Field trips with overnight hotel stays and access to school property well outside of regular hours.
@@Titan_ooo mans the type of guy to do light weight volume training and wonder why he's not growing or making progress mans also keeps up with the lastest lifting literature and still makes no gains
@@kaldordraigo4020I used to think you have to lift heavy too. Till I constantly kept getting hurt and would have to almost felt like start over. Started using less weight with better form and I’m larger than I’ve ever been and most importantly I haven’t gotten injured in forever. Kudos to the people who constantly lift heavy but I can’t do it. Too many injuries lol.
😂😂. Yes it’s hilarious because he is a PhD, no bigger nerds out there. Right? So on some level he has to respect the educated. But he is a meathead too. Which makes it funny. Also funny because what side does he really stand on, PhD or meathead? I’m joking because of course you can be both. But it’s funny to play the total gym meathead too. 👍🇺🇸👍🇺🇸👍🇺🇸
This actually felt like a one hour comedy session. I'm working while listening to this and burst out laughing especially at the end. Thank you Mike :) Educative and hilarious at the same time.
I've been doing HIT for a few years now and love it. Had tremendous success with it. Although I will say the heavy loads week after week do take their toll on your tendons etc. But yeah I've gotten very strong and but on some good muscle size. Its definitely an option. Just make sure form and execution is your priority.
I would love more of this philosophical long videos, very entertaining, interestin, and your houmor is great to keep one interested. Amazing video, more please!
If you’re interested in hearing the ideas of the specific philosophy in the video, the Ayn Rand Institute’s YT channel has a lot of good information on the history of philosophy in general as well as objectivism specifically. It’s cool you’re intrigued about philosophy 😎
@@Torgomasta Thank you! If i was going to know more about a specific philosophy, then i would read about it. I would also say Dr. Mike's other youtube channel is good if you wanna see specifically him discuss ideas, which was kinda what i was requesting, but i would also like to see that philosophical discussion with exercise science too, because nerding out is fun. But cool, i'll check out Ayn Rand, thanks for the suggestion.
Cut slack = to cut a length of rope/chain/tether slightly longer than necessary, to account for length lost in context such as use of knots/bindings/variability(eg, tide coming in/out)/whatever. Cut, because it's literally cut. Slack, because if you pull the length across a space as long as the length strictly required, having 'slack' will literally leave the length slack as opposed to taut. Intermediary to the saying, to give slack on a tether (think letting a dog's lead/leash go a bit) you're giving a little freedom to whatever/whoever is tethered. So, colloquially, cutting slack = giving someone a little extra leeway because of context or to avoid being unduly restrictive.
People get so caught up in one way of doing things when in reality they are all great. There are tons of approaches that work. It’s best to cycle through all of them rather than just do 1. If you only do high volume light weight bro split it works great for a while but progress slows so instead of staying with that you should switch low high intensity low volume, then go to full body circuits, then push/ pull/ legs. Then back to the bro split. Keep your body guessing and get the benefits of all these programs.
I am trying to get as strong as possible, but i have to also do alot of endurance training and i fund that 1 set till failure and 2 sets per muscle group works really well for me and prevents over training.
Conductors are responsible for keeping ALL of the instruments aligned in tempo, as well as increasing a decreasing the volume of any group of instruments or individual to better match the music being played. They also are responsible for indicating where inflections of certain instruments come into play. They don't just wave their wands to the beat.
I've come to the realization that Mentzer and Arnold were the two extremes. Very low volume to extremely high volume (two workouts per day). Most people need something in the middle. The trick is to figure out what's optimal for you.
Fun thing about Dorian, he didnt do ONE set. He would do one or two top sets per lift and worked up to it with multiple warmups, so his volume was higher than descriptions of his workout would let on, some of those probably more than close enough to working sets themselves to “count” for everyone but Dorian.
Can we get an optimal workout routine for 3 days a week? Which combines sufficient volume and HIT High Intensity Training philosophy. Like a Modern HIT. Make a video on this.
3 workouts a week. Back and bi's, chest and tri's, legs and core. Some moves overlap some muscle uses from workout to workout but that's inevitable. Everything is to failure and it's all high volume since it's only 3x a week. So high intensity, high volume 3x a week. Around 1 gram of protein per pound of body weight every day. My back and bi's(including shoulders) is around 20-22 sets, two-four of them being warm ups. Chest and tri's is around 13 sets, two of them being warm up, and same with legs and core with only 1 squat set being a warm up set.
The original Arthur Jones program was full body 3 times a week, which is what the Penn State football program was doing in the early to mid 80's, the whole weight room was nautilus with one Olympic bar in the corner, we had the most neck and shoulder injuries, we would have benefited from mentzers modifications, but Penn State eventually realized a full machine workout was not optimal for football training, I actually got weaker my first year, it took me going home my 2cd summer and getting trained by Bryan Greenberg on free weights, I never got a football injury again once I got off the machines
What drew me most to HIT training was seeing Dorian tearing his tricep due to not recovering enough & ronnie coleman's injuries due to over training. What I get most from his work is a set of principles in to apply individually which was what he actually recommended outside of his books which were just examples of what he was philosophy to training. 1 set & consolidated programs were not what he prescribed for everyone but based on how you recovered from lifting to failure with proper form. as far as quote 7 i think its in reference to being the hero of your own life, like only you can really change your life
Short shorts *sploosh* Fun factoid: "man" used to just mean person. It still does in German. "Man kann mit dem Rad fahren" means "one can ride a bike". "Werman" and "Wifman" meant man and woman, and that's where we get the word "wife" (as well as "werewolf", ie "manwolf"). Over time, the language shifted and now man, in everyday speech, generally means man. But man also means mankind, as in people. And since you asked, I'd go for number 3, getting railed by all the dudes 24/7.
Even if you prove 1000 times that more volume is better, once you discover that you can still make gains from fewer sets a few times /week, it’s hard to justify going balls to the wall on volume ever again. Even when I add more volume beyond a few sets per body part (normal), I do not feel like I make better gains.
Honestly, if nothing else, I put so much more into my one set that I ever did 3x10. And though I've considered going every 3 days instead of every 4, I get so pumped to workout on gym days, and I sometimes still feel soreness on day 3.
You can make gains off anything so long as you have recovery figured out. I've done HIT but get a lot more size and strength gains from more volume and higher frequency
To your point at about the 12 min mark. When i started lifting. I was over training. But the results were cool to me. In 6 or 8 months. I was in a facility "job corps". I just lifted in all of my free time. I never gained weight. But muscles were hard. At 155 i could curl 60 lbs reps of 3 sets of 10 eazy. They didnt have 70's. Chest shredded. Benching around 185 3 sets 10. . Its nothing major. But i started around 95lbs. (6 months) Its just i wasnt eating extra. Just stayed in the gym. A 16 yo. Point its. You can train not eat and be thin shredded and strong. Prolly gained about 5 lbs in that time. Wish i knew what you were preaching now. I wanted to be big. But i was amazed at my change regardless. .
36:19 I believe cutting slack is referring to tailoring pants, if you have a pair with more material you have more play room to maybe size it up or down easier after the fact.
My personal opinion is that goals can be helpful for me as short term benchmarks along my overall trajectory of desired achievement. They keep me working hard and motivated. For a while it was trying to get my first body-weight pull-up. So I modified my training to work in that direction for a couple months. Really pushed myself hard. Then it was trying to build a stronger, more powerful chest because I was having trouble pushing against people in BJJ. So I modified my training and really focused on a controlled but powerful concentric and a slow, controlled eccentric. For a while there I focused on shortening my 5k run time to get to a pace that’s under 9.5 min/mile. Because my overall goal is total body health and fitness, in addition to performing well climbing and for BJJ purely for my enjoyment. This kind of cyclical training works for me because it keeps me not just working, I’ll do that regardless, but working hard.
This might be the definitive video on the issue. There are many good points Mentzer made but this resurgence of HIT is one of the most baffling things that happened in the fitness space and I was there in the early days of RU-vid fitness when even bosu balls had their day in the Sun
@@TiberiusX same case could be made for HIT. PEDs can also let you get away with less work and still grow rapidly quicker than a natural. A happy balance between volume, intensity, and recovery is all it takes. Sht's really not as complicated as some people make it seem. You don't need 20-30 sets per muscle....but that doesn't mean you only need 1 or 2... and lately everyone seems to think it has to be one or the other, without considering all the in between and the nuance.
@EnigmaticAnamoly I think most people are somewhere in between from what I've seen. Not even the channels named after Mentzer think that his final workout plan was as good as his earlier plans. Most gear is designed to decrease recovery time which is why high volume works for them. I think perhaps it might seem like there are so many idealogues now is because his actual recordings are finally being published on RU-vid so more people are giving it a try. If you've been taking advice from people on gear who claim they aren't, then you try HIT you'll see results. Probably just because so many over train. Also, it's highly likely that most of the people who are espousing his routines DON'T plan to compete. They aren't working out to compare to anyone but themselves, I'm certainly never planning to compete, so why would I risk injury with overtraining if I'm personally seeing good results. I have considered experimenting with doing two sets instead of one, or working out every other day but with the same exercises to see if I get better results, but so far I've just pushed my working sets to the absolute limit and went home to eat a steak and it's worked pretty well so far.
Mentzer literally recommended 5 working sets per muscle group, a week. He went on to say train to failure and once you reach the intermediate level, to increase intensity instead of volume by doing things such as: Pre Exhaustion Peak contraction Forced reps Negative reps Rest pause training Partial reps Static contractions All of which has been backed by modern meta analysis so I’m not sure why we’re still debating this
It's hard to find a compilation of all of Mentzer's teachings and I think Dr. Mike doesn't want to go and track down everything he ever said (fair enough) so he is making assumptions of what Mentzer meant based off of little context. I'm with you though. Pretty much all that Mentzer has said should compile the routine of an advanced lifter are backed by studies that Dr. Mike frequently references.
@@hooktraining3966 Before critiquing Mike Mentzer's training method that progressed throughout the years, I wish Dr. Mike 1st had a look at this book and the links: High-Intensity Training the Mike Mentzer Way book Mike Mentzer and the science of heavy duty training ru-vid.com/video/%D0%B2%D0%B8%D0%B4%D0%B5%D0%BE-ZmPeiTucPiA.html Mike Mentzer did not build all his size with volume training ru-vid.com/video/%D0%B2%D0%B8%D0%B4%D0%B5%D0%BE-G2L3Y7FPHas.html
"Potential is only the expression of a possibility, something that could be assessed accurately only in retrospect. In other words, you'll never know how good you might have become, unless you try." To me this is his best quote.
Mike Mentzer is long dead. He can't defend his approach and can't debate you either. But, Dorian Yates is alive and in great health. He also has started his own podcast lately. Why not address him and debunk the HIT methodology? Or start a debate with him. At least he's alive and able to talk. Also, very important to note: Quotes don't represent any philosophy fully. They are just part of a larger ocean. And can easily be taken out of context. Mike Mentzer has also written books. Did you read them? I highly doubt it. With all my respect, but your take is just 'coffee talk'. This is not how intellectuals engage in analyzing and 'debunking' others philosophies and methodologies.
Stronger you are the less work you can do to get a response. Platz worked out legs every 2 weeks at his peak. Sterons definitely help from going catabolic in the off time.
Proud to be part of the 0.01 of Dr Mike's audience that is female 🎉 You've helped me with my training so much, really appreciate your lessons and your humour, thank you ❤
56:06 facts! the information that is out there today and especially the contentration of stuff that I was able to find on this channel alone is unbelievable. I can not comprehend how they used to do all of that training and stuff without the underlying knowledge of what's truly going on
A very well done review and offering of different perspectives mixed in with modern research updates. Opening minds with humor and knowledge is the best combination.
Mentzer is was a genius, he's like Obi-wan, guiding principals are all there, people can argue over how many sets till they are blue in the face. I still see people overtraining all the time and undertraining all the time. You take his slowed tempo reps and throw burnout reps in there at the end of your working sets you have the Houdini secret lever.
Some buddhist monks do various physical training as well as mental training including martial arts, getting hit with various objects, running, balance and agility work etc. Some do basically circus tours as well.
The visualization part, makes it more real, Arnold was big into that too, when visualizing his muscles, it makes it more real, or more comparable to current reality and then easier to move towards, vs if it was just written down
