Can we SAVE a 78 Year Old Generator? 

What would you do? Piece it back together? Or try to fix it right?

I showed my grandfather this video. He was an electrician his whole life, and his first job(at 15 years old) was working for O'Keefe-Merrit in Philadelphia. They built the generator part of that unit and then connected them to 2 or 4 cylinder engines that they got from Ford(post-war/1945) and Willy's Overland Company(that contracted with Ford, Packard, and a dozen other companies pre 1945). He thinks you should rebuild it because "they don't make that kind of quality anymore." It's quite possible he bolted those units together or secured it in the shipping crate(They would have been OD green from the factory). Dayshift would assemble the engines(he says it should have the same fuel pump as a jeep of that era(the 4 cyl engine was the same engine in the Jeep and most parts should be interchangeable). The second shift would attach the generators, and bench test them and overnights(which ran from 6pm-2am) would crate them. He worked on 2nd and overnights from 1944-1948. There were only 5 other people that would have done that. His "Boss" who was the "old man" on the shift, was 22 and is now 102. They are the only 2 left from that era. Thanks for posting this. I had no clue he would be that closely connected. It made his year!

As a generator mechanic, I am very interested in seeing you guys do a full restoration of that thing. I was always told that the Onans were the best gen set and it looks like what you have there could be something extremely reliable as long as it still makes electricity. No doubt you guys will get the motor running but the true test is if it makes power. But yes, Full Restoration!!

Just before WW2 my father was the service manager at Monkey Wards in an Ohio town. Our family name is Sears. MW customers would bring in their complaints and the clerks would say "No problem sir, just go see Sears". The customers would start to cuss out the clerks because they thought that MW was refusing service and directing them to Sears Roebuck. The Sears Roebuck manager tried to hire my father away from MW just to spite their competition, because my dad was known around the town as the best service guy. So my dad put up a sign at MW Service that said "Powered by Sears". He told me that people even brought Sears products to him for repair, and he would repaint them blue over the Sears red. Dad came from the period where "we had to walk 5 miles to school without shoes".

If you look at the history of David Onan you will find that he had trouble with the lights going up and down with the running of 1930s Brigs and Stratton engines, he and his son spent many years trying to solve the problem. Finally, he built his own engines with better balance and governor.

Yes, fix it to be a reliable runner at least. Save the history.....

Full restoration!!!

I have the Onan version of this it's a 7 kW 3 phase generator and believe me they're about as reliable as a Mormon showing up to church on Sunday

@49:00 You were spot on how the choke works - and the heater was broken, so someone adjusted it to 'off' all the time. Have I ever mentioned I used to work for Onan? ;)

We had one of those at our WI hunting shack in the '70s. I rebuilt it in high school shop class in 1976. I could get some of the parts at that time. I believe that is a 1kW lighting plant. It has terminals to connect a remote start/stop. We only started it while being at the machine since the electric choke coil broke, and we would check oil, etc. The remote stop was nice so we didn't have to leave the warm shack at bedtime. You are correct that the choke is not set correctly. If you can fix the coil, set the choke by turning the htr assy until choke blade is just closed, and tighten base clamp. The fan hub is oil filled as well. Small screw on hub let's you add oil until it leaks out of shaft. The top of the coil housing is missing because those are not original coils. The original high tension leads came out of the cap horizontally. Our coils failed so we replaced them with new ones, 6 V wired in series, just like original. Also, the coil housing is above the exhaust manifold and would cook the coils. I out a sheet metal shield over the manifold. I had to replace head gasket in early 90's and couldn't get parts. Original gasket was copper on two sides, some kind of fiber in the middle. I contacted a gasket company and got a high temp head gasket material sample, approx 8" x 10" or so. Drew up the gasket on ACAD and had it CNC punched at work. Worked fine. Many of the other gaskets, such as base and lower cylinder gaskets were a thick waxed paper type. Check the commutation end of the generator to be sure there is a gap between each copper section. As the copper wears the insulation between each section must be removed. Easily formed with a hacksaw blade if needed. Our valves were very worn, and I was able to replace them. The guides may have been too, but I don't remember replacing them. We ended up discontinue using this generator and switched to using newer portable 5kW generator as it had more power, portable, less maintenance, etc. You may have some luck getting a few parts now since the Web exists. I even called onan in the '70s and they said they didn't support that machine any longer. Ours was green, same as the background behind the lettering on the radiator. We painted ours a deep blue for some reason. Be careful taking the two bolts out that hold the thermosiphon to the radiator as they are through bolts and get rusted in place. We snapped ours, then snapped an easy out, then visited the local machine shop to fix that! It was a fun project though.

I worked at a Montgomery Wards auto center in the early 1970's. Their color is, in fact; blue. They were a cut rate version of Sears. Whatever you bought from them on the hardware side came in blue packaging. Just like the blue on your generator. Wrenches, blue roll pouch. .22 rifle, blue box. Sears, Montgomery Ward, and J.C. Penney; all competed for the same customer back in those days.

The story I’ve heard many times on the oil bath air cleaners is that they worked very effectively but the manufacturers wised up and figured out they could make quite a bit more money charging for filter canisters. Ironically, sometimes if a farmer was really keen on cleaning out his filter element with compressed air all the time , it could rip the material and let dust get sucked in more easily. The oil bath was pretty fool proof if you kept good clean oil in it. The only thing we’ve ever run in them is regular engine oil.

I just love the father son love in your videos. I miss my father so much. Keep up the great work together.

I think that plate that isn't full size bore on the carb mounting is an intake restrictor to limit the max air to the carb and so limit the max revs of the engine. Simple but effective.

Onan W2C from the looks of it. Well worth saving, those little gensets are bulletproof.

I think the reddish orange paint in the oil pan is Glyptal paint. It is used in electric motors in the oil bath bearings and windings. Great video, please go through it! And make more of these!

“So, engineers were always jerks” says the kid with the engineering degree.

You guys need to make this a collaboration with Handtool Rescue. This is right up his alley.

I had an oil bath air filter on my 1954 Holden FJ ute here in Australia & it worked very well at seperating & capturing dirt & dust. Emergency braking or hard brake tests for rego used to see oil spill out over the hot exhuast manifold resulting in lots of smoke & luckily no fire.

Montgomery wards, holy crap. I havent heard that name since the 80s/90s

Montgomery Wards, Sears and J.C. Penny.......ah, my childhood....

Man I miss Montgomery Wards. They were awesome, like Service Merchandise. And yes, that is the original color. MG always painted everything Hammerite blue or green. I've got an old MG gas powered water pump that's very similar to this that's painted that same battleship blue. Still runs too, my grandpa always said "you get what you pay for, and if you buy smart you'll have a tool for life" It's fun to see this! It takes me back.

I love the way you guys always machine things to better than they ever could have been originally. In that same vein, I’d like to see you guys update as much of this generator as possible

Please do it. We like to learn more about how the whole assembly operates. How it was done back then is always neat to learn and remember.

There is a utuber called Small Engine Mechanic. These generator engines are his speciality.

As you said, today’s carb cleaner is nothing like what we had up to the mid 80s. The old stuff would strip a carb in 30-45 minutes. When it was used up and dirty, the heavy line mechanic would take it and use it for his engine parts for the next month or 2. Before we knew better, after pulling the carb out of the agitator tank, we would wash it off in the mechanics bathroom sink. A fresh tank of the stuff would strip the top layers of skin off your hands if you had to reach into it. Made sure you never went home with dirty hands. I remember getting angry at the heavy line mechanic when he would put valve covers in it to strip the paint off of them. Would ruin the cleaner. Today, ultrasonic cleaners work better than the chemical cleaners available today.

I love restoring old machinery! Thanks for this video! Those old gensets would use the generator head as a starter motor if a battery was connected. I've got a few that use that technique.

Restore it! Preserving history will always benefit the future generations. I'm sharing this with my club members of Power From The Past in Arizona. We will be following for updates. Thanks for rescuing this "old iron".

You're correct in your assumption of how that choke is adjusted. It's adjustable so you can change the time of how long the choke stays closed to warm the engine up. In really cold weather the housing that the element is in can be adjusted to tighten it up to make it take longer to open the choke. In warm weather when a choke isn't needed, it can be set so the choke is wide open. I've been working on engines since I was 16 and have been through a large number of carbs either rebuilding them or adjusting them. I'm 62 and retired now but still turning wrenches at home. Personally, if I had that generator, I'd clean it up, rebuild the carb, give it a nice paint job, made sure it ran ok and use it as a conversation piece. Why go through the trouble of overhauling the engine, will it be put back in service? I think it'd be better off just cleaned up and painted....just my .02 worth.

I too am a boomer, only three years younger than this treasure. I wish that my son would find & buy me stuff like this, but in reality, I have far more projects & stuff than I can ever use, but a welding unit like this would be very handy at times. The thermo siphon system had a couple of advantages. It was cheap [no pump] & it actually worked well, & it worked best at near boiling, which helped the engine to heat & vaporise the poor grade of pre 1950's fuel, ensuring smooth running through good combustion & of course lower running costs when all of the liquid fuel that leaves the carb is vaporised & burned. But wait, there's more. Dodge engines from 1914 till sometime in the early '20's had the carb bolted directly to the cylinder block. The intake passage passed between No. 2 & 3 cylinders to the opposite side of the block, then branched via an internal T section to feed Cylinders 1& 2 on one side of the central cross passage, then 3 & 4 on the other. All of the intake passage from carb flange to valve seat were cast in block. The upside is that the crude fuel of the day [close to Kerosene] needed heat to vaporise it properly, & this system provided the heat that many other engines did not. Particularly in the north with plenty of snowfall & sub zero temperatures. Dodge engines of the period were well known for smooth running & great mechanical reliability & this design was a contributing element. Hmmmm, to rebuild or not to rebuild, this, is the question. Worn guides, suspect valves, worn cam & an implied responsibility to restore it to a fully serviceable standard [ie, like new], so, pull it down & let us all see how it works.

Get it runing and then restore it to new, continuing story tor episodes to come. Loved the Willis jeep engine saga!

This video is the reason I like this channel so much. What a great video. We had a Lincoln welder that had an Onan engine in it.

Now this would be awesome pice of hardware to rebuild and get running just for the nostalgia. Some collector would probably love it. B4 you get too deep into it, you may wanna have the coil, or generator alternator winding check? To make sure the thing can theoretically produce electricity. And pressure test your cooling system

make sure the generator works before digging into thee engine, fixing a bad generator might be very tough.

I want you guys to do whatever you think is fun. You seem to be having a fun time working on this on your own schedule. I'll tune in for whatever happens.

The oil bath air cleaners on the old VW Beetle worked really well, just messy to service.

That’s a honeycomb radiator. They were popular in the 40’s. The generator probably also doubles as your starter. The crank should be backup. You should pull the plugs to prime the oil system before cranking it over. The GenSet should be governed to 1800 rpm and have adequate balance to run smoothly. I have a couple Crosley powered 3-phase generators. Fun things to play with.

Onan makes amazing generators. Can't wait to see you get into it.

That generator is a piece of history. I would reach out to Onan and see if they would participate is such a piece of history. I once bought an old paint compressor from my brother-in-law and used it for nearly 10 years. tt was made in the 40's when I was a child. What amazed me it ran when you tried and was so quite. Parts on my body are waring out at the age of 82 and I appreciate that old technology. I always wanted to rebuild an engine so I appreciate your vid's

The neighbor has one of those badged Fairbanks Morse. They called it an "Electric Plant". Yeats ago, I'd installed a transfer switch so it can be used as standby house power.

For a lot of RU-vidrs out there, I would vote for just getting it running and go from there. You guys are in a really unique spot with a machine shop at hand. In your case, I would vote giving it the 2024 treatment by taking it apart, machine to good tolerances, balancing it and putting it back together with either the factory color for vintage reasons or high tech colors or coating for a vintage-modern look. It would be cool to see what old might look and run like if it was given todays specs. Also (if it hasn't been mentioned), the direction of the spring on the carb dictates that the heat will open the choke. To check the adjustment, put the carb in a fridge and a freezer to see if there's a difference in how open they are. I think fridge should be partially to mostly closed with freezer being all closed. There will be a temperature it's expected to be completely open, maybe in the manual.

GE Glyptol electric motor paint... Is what that dull red paint is ..

Very interesting little engine, get it running and then decide if it needs a full on rebuild. Dodge Brothers cars from 1914 until 1925 bolted the carb directly to the block same as your little Onan. You two guys have a great channel.

I went thru a mid 70s single cylinder air cooled Onan. Very similar basic construction as this water cooled twin. Had a lot of fun & education going thru the 2.5 KVA Onan I had.

put the engine back together and send it! that's neat that the generator turns the engine to start it, i'm not sure when ALCO or GE started using this idea on their locomotives I will tell you that modern GE locomotives still use the batteries and traction alternator to start the diesel engine.

Get it running then do the machine work to make it perfect.

I love this! Always loved working on small engines. B&S, Tecumseh, motorcycles, generators. Thanks for doing this video!

If it were mine, I’d piece it back together and see how it runs. But it’s yours, and I love watching you guys work, and love seeing unusual machines, and how you make them work right. So of course I want to see you go through it completely 😁

Thanks for this video , interesting challenge you fells have taken on. My dad was a wholesale distributor for standard oil back in 1949, the 12,000 gallon rail cars were filled at hillyard next to Spokane from a pipeline. When they arrived he would pump the gas into storage tanks and then go up to the top and empty a small vial of dye into the gas to brand. Red was regular 87 octane and blue was supreme 89 octane. What came through the pipeline was clear, each company would add different color to brand.

When you see the price of Onan parts, you'll see why we call them "Onan The Barbarian".

This little outfit is a perfect static display project Jim. A great talking point and one i most certainly would look forward to you both working your magic on the engine, solving any 'problems' along the way. Go for it.....please👍🏻👍🏻 🏴󠁧󠁢󠁳󠁣󠁴󠁿🇬🇧

Thanks for another interesting video Jim and Nick. It is very interesting and informative and enjoyable to watch. This old generator system is really an interesting project you both have taken on. So interesting to see how it is put together as you disassemble the unit. I believe it is very well built the way it looks so far. Has had some use but not a tremendous amount of time on it. Sincerely appreciate the way you both explain the parts as you take it apart and how you believe it functions and all that. Dearly love the way you look at parts and analyze things as you go. Most v interesting project. Looking forward to following you on this one. The retired Air Force veteran.

The carb cleaner I remember came in like a 3 gallon metal bucket. In all the years my dad had his service station we never had to buy a new bucket. The liquid inside was, basically, black and depending on what you were cleaning, there might be a light wisp of smoke when you pulled the parts out

That partial intake block off plate was probably to aid carb function and to increase turbulence in the intake stream for better atomization. At least that was their thought in 1940ish I think...

Hey y’all. I work on Farmall and other old engines. Regarding the thermosyphon and the oil bath air cleaner, both work really well when maintained. For the air cleaner, the cup should take the same oil as the engine, and as the air is sucked in by the engine, dirt and dust gets blown into the mesh which is splashed by oil. When the engine shuts off, the oil and debris settles to the bottom of the cup. To clean it, change the oil in the cup and remove the screened filler material and wash in kerosene or heating oil. As for the radiator, the engine uses a thermosyphon system. It will seem to not be working when running for the first few minutes, but this is normal because the system lacks a pump, the water must heat up first before it will move. To use this system, do not use Dexcool or other automotive coolants. Use a standard antifreeze (green) coolant or straight water. Buy pre-mixed or mix before pouring in because with the absence of a water pump, the coolant and water will not mix and will result in inefficient cooling. As the water heats in the engine it rises to the neck where it enters the coil, the fan blows the heat out of the water where it becomes cool and falls with convection, entering the water block again. To clean it of rust and dirt, first drain the system (and remove radiator cap). Then with engine on idle, fill the system with water and baking soda (pre mixed) or for an extreme clean, muriatric acid, or white vinegar and install cap. After an hour of running, turn off the engine, drain it and flush with cold water until water runs clear. Repeat as necessary. A well maintained thermosyphon system is reliable and efficient at cooling an engine but will require you to keep the coolant whether that be water, or antifreeze clean and always filled. My best tip on filling is to avoid under filling, which can be done by filling to the top of the radiator neck and running engine for normal use. Any extra coolant will exit out the overflow pipe and it will level itself off based on heat and pressure. Last tip is to make sure your water (if used) is soft. Hard water that is over chlorinated will damage the cast iron and radiator tubes, and water with excess minerals will calcify the block making cooling inefficient. The best choice for water is leaving a few buckets out during a rainstorm. Rain water is soft and much better for thermosyphon systems. Hope this helps y’all.

Awosme viedo. Saw this on marketplace and glad it went to a good home!

That part on the carburetor with the "D" opening is because this generator was once used by NASCAR at Talladega so it required a restrictor plate. They thought it would make the electricity better by keeping all the generators bunched up in a pack. It was alright until the "BIG ONE" happened. Then they were in the dark the rest of the night.

I'm getting near the age that I'd like to head out to the garage/shop and just tinker with things. There is no money in it unless you find find a person that really wants it. What was cool back in the days of 'Monkey Ward' and especially Sears is: Sears: They genuinely carried even the smallest parts for stuff that they sold(Lawn tractors, dish washers, washing machines, etc.). They were sold with manuals that included highly-detailed printed parts blow-up illustrations with part numbers, They were damned nice and responsible manuals...not just a gloss-over. You could get those parts from Sears usually for the next 40 years after the damned gizmo was made. Not in any way true with today's machinery. Sears is sorely missed to me.

I’d absolutely love to see a full restore on this thing. Such an interesting little engine and genny!

I have a 1948 Tow Motor fork lift with a Continental flat head 6. It has a Zenith updraft carburetor that is a REAL ODBALL. The only one I could find was over 400 bucks about 7-8 years ago. It's cast steel/iron and it's SHOT!!!

Measure the compression. Measure the oil pressure. If they're both good and it not knocking, don't fix it, it is not broken, don't fix it. Run it at 80% of it's rated electrical load. See if it struggles to keep up. Also check how it handles an electric motor starting surge, maybe a window air conditioner, If it stumbles and sags then it doesn't have enough compression or the cam lift is worn so it is not getting enough charge in the cylinders. That system is overbuilt. It is designed to run for long periods under heavy loads, kind of like marine engines.

Okay, this generator should have been built to government specs to be used in all the theaters during the war! A good source of potential advice would be James Condom’s channel where he primarily fixes and knows more about motors and more importantly generator repairs on RU-vid! Put a little money into a content generator for the channel, and the value of a generator that’s probably very collectible from WW2 re-enactors, to just collecting! This may be gold for you!

Oil bath air filters are GREAT! You just have to remember to clean them out and change the oil. On my Willy's pickup I did it every oil change.

It would be very cool to get it back together and working you fellas seem to find a way to make it happen, best of luck Love your channel

Put it back together and test run. If it ain't broke, don't fix it. If during the test run you observe more serious problems, then go for the total rebuild. You would be very surprised at how durable and functional old engines and equipment like that are.

If the compression is decent... press on...

This inspires me to get my little old Onan running.

Of course we want to see a full tear down. That is a interesting piece of equipment and may be the only one some of us ever see in our lives.

HAZMAT training calls your carb cleaner: “Methyl Ethyl Death”. - wash your hands…you’ll be fine, as my dad would say. 😂

"White gas" was what we called the stuff that went in a Coleman lantern/stove. In the 70's anyhow.

Back in 72 the "Formula 409" cleaning spray was so strong we were getting dizzy breathing it. It sure cleaned good tho. I am still amazed how well Mr. Clean Magic Eraser white foam pads work.

Rebuild it to the max, I really wish i could do something like this with my Dad, your a lucky guy

Tear it down, modernize it, clean/bead-blast everything, paint it original OD Green. 🙂

It's unfair to blame engineers for tight stuff like that. Any good engineer, given free reign, would make it perfect. Unfortunately, they (we) are usually given a deadline and horrible parameters to work with (make this work with this for $x, and have it done in two days).

Indeed carb dip is nothing like it used to be. Most of us still doing carb work have switched to using ultrasonic cleaners now. They work incredibly well.

Love it. Never seen one, never will see one. Thanks for sharing.

Its a joy to watch you guys

Love the video. I tell my wife and coworkers I'm watching educational videos. I worked in a automotive machine shop back in the early 90s and Miss the shit out of it. Was a automotive mechanic for 30+ yrs do to neck and back surgery had to get out of the field 😢. Now work at AutoZone. But still haven't lost the passion.

I have one that’s in sad shape, green is the original color and I can’t wait for part two. Sparked me to get mine right.

that is the coolest carburetor I've ever seen. would love to see you do a full restoration to new on that generator. I'd send a $25 check to help, and maybe 100 or more others would do so too? this is a very cool project.

I know I'm not alone in saying that I would love to see you two do another video about that cool little genset.

I believe these generators were designed with all major components within the footprint of the radiator. This allowed for compact crating and best use of space when shipping. That’s why the tight spacing on the carb bolts.

My 1936 Cord had a Stromberg carburetor with a choke that had an identical type choke mechanism, a coiled spring and a heating element that was energized when the ignition was started. When the engine was warmed up, the spring was warm enough to keep the choke open even with the ignition switch off. This type of choke control was replaced in later cars with a "heat riser" tube the transferred exhaust manifold heat up to the choke coil, worked better as the electric elements were known to burn out after a few years.

Reddish color paint on inside of the oil pan and block is a product called Glyptal and was originally a GE product. Great video and I look forward to seeing more on this great little gen set.

Hmmm. The retired mechanic in me says get it running. The classic car owner says tear it apart.

Make it run as is..... and go from there.... enjoyed this video.....THANK YOU

Like you said “ If it ain’t broke don’t fix it “. If it runs fine then get the generator working and it will be golden. I’m fascinated by the design of different engines. This one is truly unique.

The even firing setup crank is for the smooth rotation of the generator & electrical output for radios etc. Lighting doesnt need this.Entertained again, Thanks.

Want a great idea! Clean the fuel system get it started and run and adjust everything, then check compression valve adjustment and see .how it run then , if it’s real good get the generator running and output , then determine if your going to strip it down for a good reason!

I worked on a 50's vintage Onan generator/welder long ago. It was very well-built. A beast. Restore!!

I look forward to seeing the generator run again. The ONAN is a nice well built engine made to be rebuilt. It is put together in the typical fashion for the day, but with a few oddball ideas possibly to get around patents. You may even find some parts are still around or standard sized engine more modern, or a different manufactures parts may be a replacement. The Blue color is Monkey Wards color so it's original over the orange primer. Another manufacture was Wisconsin Engine. The Wisconsin vintage engines like THD, TJD (as well as larger vblock engines) were similar in ways to the ONAN engine there. Consisting of a oil sump, a block, and cylinder block and head all bolted together so any part could be replaced if worn out or damaged. Crankshaft on ball bearings, mechanical fuel pump run off the cam etc.. The THD is even firing making smooth power for for generators, and Hobart welders, it's twin the TJD was odd firing. The ONAN engine may also be even firing. That radiator is all brass and any hole in the wall radiator shop (the old one that know what they are doing) can boil, rod, clean and repair any leaks.

Carb plate is that shape so the butterfly on the throttle shaft will clear then it open at full throttle. Machine it and get it back to perfect shape.before buttoning it back up.

I’m looking forward to seeing this next weekend.

I would love to see the internals. My vote is for the complete restoration, custom machining included. You guys are great.!!!

That looks like an identical fuel pump to what is used on mid 1930's Chevrolet engines. I had to replace a diaphragm on my 1935 and a replacement is made and sold by Jim Carter's Truck Parts in MO. That was in 2004 that I did that but I think they still sell them. Them two nuts you were removing on top of the pump had flat pieces of formica type material with springs in mine and appeared to be check valves for the pump.

I didn't think I'd ever see another one of these onan gensets,we had one of these running an of grid house here in oz until a shed fire a few years ago, it was still used regularly and ran quite well,it was painted dark green

I´m glad You Guys found this! The fuel pump arrangement alone is awsome. The hole engine made of cast, no sheet metal to see is delightful to me. The other side would be that everything might shatter to pieces when hit... But really: I´m very glad this crazy gramps of an engine found its nursing home! Couldn´t imagine anything better than a fully equipped engine shop- You really can tlc the heck out of it. That unit looks like an excellent backup for the backup. Parallel twins were quite common in the days, British motorcycles were that way because the bugger has torque. If that counts: there You go. I hope You can make it work again, it for shure was used good but it stayed together. But You should wear more gloves. Y´all have so many harmful chemicals around, please wear nitril gloves. Those don´t dissolve when confronted with say break clean or acetone. Please watch Yourselves.

My brother-in-law has a functioning Witte generator. He tore it all down and restored it. Works great.

Definitely disassemble and see how it works and get it to a new state.

Have seen a plate like that on various small gas engines.... a ultrasonic wash tank and some "Simple Green" works wonders on carburetor parts and it's safe...good content and thanks...🔧🔧👍