That moment in alliance HQ when they realised they failed to kill a single one of the undead, and basically acted as a resource for Arthas instead by giving him free bodies
I always liked how all out the human AI gets in the last mission. I mean, they are basically throwing everything at you in one last hurrah trying to stop the world getting destroyed, it just makes sense how they would commit everything at the very last second, even the peasants
The original was pretty tough too, but they didn't send peasants in. That's just dumb. The Kirin Tor imo wasn't even aware of what exactly was Kel'Thuzad doing, only that it was something they should probably try to stop. And I would not recommend believing Blizzard. Not anymore.
yeah, that got me chuckling too, but "briliant strategy of '*slight pause* running in circle until he dies" really got me laughing so hard I had to pause the video.
I believe pretty much everyone on the team cared. The publisher didn't though. Reforged early release was a sacrifice to a low release year for Blizzard-Activision. That's why it's such an unfinished mess.
@@FiftyStates5 I did enjoy it as well, but that was in spite of it being Reforged. The original WC3 is my favourite game of all time, so a game that I consider a classic would still be fun regardless of how flawed the remaster is. But oh man did Blizzard manage to reduce my hype levels for Reforged with all the broken promises of giving their arguably most important game they ever made all the attention and care it deserved.
@@FiftyStates5 I wouldn't mind reforged if it had been launched as it's own thing and given time to work out the kinks. But the way Blizzard-Activision did it, is to see the negative feedback and then force Reforged down our collective throats despite all the on-release flaws. - Ladder was broken/non-existent. - Almost the entire mod scene got broken by the update on addition to anyone working on mods in WC3 (some of which have been decades of collective work) now being forced to relinquish any rights to any of their original work and making it property of Blizzard-Activision. - The remaster wasn't voluntary. I never bought Reforged. I never wanted Reforged. I own WC3 and Frozen Throne. But Blizzard forces all clients to go through an online check and deletes the old game files from your computer and then forces you to download Reforged. I don't have room for a ~30gb game from 2000 on my PC. The original WC3 is like 1gb at most. So not only did they break everything about the old game I own, but they even deleted it from my computer and force me to use the game I never bought or wanted - which makes it unplayable for me. - Despite the remaster basically delivering none of the promises, Blizzard had to be forced in courts to fulfill their refunding obligations for disappointed customers. Even after they were forced to do so, they had to be forced again to make the refunding process easily accessible because they intentionally made it more complicated than it had to be. All in all, basically everything on the publishing side of Reforged is shitty business practices and a mess. As for Warcraft 3, well it's still Warcraft 3. And Warcraft 3 was a good game.
The horse was his first horse "Invincible" which died in a snowstorm after it broke its leg when Arthas was young. One of the first things he does after toppling Lordaeron basically is to resurrect his cute little pony.
@@MithrilRoshi If you read the book it even states how much of an impact the loss of invincible had on him. He swore the day he lost him that he wouldn't allow the loss of any other of his loyal subjects due to his foolishness and with that in mind, the events of warcraft 3 and the culling of stratholme transpired and turned him into the lich king... The song invincible is the theme of the lich king if Im not wrong and its about the horse and its impact on his personality.
The undead campaign in Reforged really hurt me to play, there's so many signs of the intent to actually do something with the remake which just makes the reality of how underdeveloped it is sting all the more.
the reforged missions are "meh". Stratholme : Arthas can run in circle around the houses and Malganis just follow him. The Fall of Silvermoon is not bad but not amazing. And i hated Dalaran, i miss the big waves of enemies and their hard to destroy towns. But the archimage thing was a good idea !
@@erikho6936 I mean I can get by mechanic limitations of the game since it's the same engine and everything. The lack of facial animations in 2020 that bothers me.
@@liocdeparmesan3885 I know this reply is late, but exactly, the culling was sososo easy in reforged and you can baisically spawncamp and kite malganis the entire time, I have zero idea how grant had so much trouble on the mission.
1:03 Here is a small lore dump on that horse. It's called invincible, it was a horse he got as a small boy that grew up beside him but in an unfortunate accident Arthas and Invincible fell and invincible was Mortally wounded. Arthas put his old friend out of his misery and after Arthas kills his father he goes to invincibles grave and resurrects him. Edit: His name certainly fits with the challenge.
I love how your runs turn Arthas from a man driven into genocidal madness by the burden of his responsibilities into a selfless, altruistic and reasonable man so absurdly talented as a battlefield leader that he didn't even comprehend the concept of a "deathless" run, because nobody ever died under his command before. This Arthas becomes undead not because he was corrupted, but because the only way he could get better at "protecting" people was to retroactively undo the deaths of people who already died.
@@bloodasp0164 what you mean by "not that bad" ? She literally caused war conspired and betrayed just to kill as many living species as possible? She is horrible in every possible way.
@@bloodasp0164 depends who you ask. last WoW expansion kept her under utilized and we never found out what she was up to until the next xpac as a whole.
7:30 - The whole reason Sylvanas is sending runners is BECAUSE she is trying to alert Silvermoon that Arthas is invading. Sylvanas and her army are basically scouts and the past three missions were her trying to stop you but when she failed she is desperately trying to warn Silvermoon that Arthas' army is coming. If a runner reaches Silvermoon and they are alerted, the mission ends.
Sure, but realistically, she would send a runner as soon as the first Undead was spotted in the 3rd mission. The whole purpose of the Rangers was to act as a screening force that would give the main army time to mobilize. The fact that she waited until Arthas was literally next to Silvermoon is really dumb, especially considering that other than that, she is portrayed as a brilliant military commander.
From what I recall the three Silvermoon missions happen with no time in between lore-wise. It's not like the undead have reason to rest up, right? It didn't help that there's a Blood Elf traitor (Dar'khan Drathir) that gave Arthas information about the Key of the Three Moons (Arthas may have been left flailing without that information). The lapse in logic of not sending the runner at the first or second mission would make sense.
As I remember, the mission not ends after a runner gets to the silvermoon. You Just need to fight 2 AIs at the same time, which on a hard dif can be the end for some players 😅
Or maybe because her death triggers cutscene and this mission is "reforged", so they made her run aways so she don't die before cutscene where she attack Arthas at the gates.
It does 100% but honestly it did look like a it much, maybe it’s cause he was doing it deathless though go so his retreating made them much larger than they would be if he stood his ground the whole time
If im not mistaken, i think the freezing of the way to the Sunwell island is in reference to TBC lore, as that's how it's said to have happened in game. In the original Warcraft 3 the sunwell is just in the middle of Silvermoon, but when it came time to make it in game, the WoW team decided to place it on a tiny island a mile offshore so that it could be introduced in its own content patch, and as a result they had to retcon the original silvermoon area plan and make it so Arthas froze the ocean to march his army to the sunwell to ressurect Kel'Thuzad.
The ice bridge is a reference to the Rise of the Lich King novel. The gap between Silvermoon and the Isle of Quel'Danas is a lot bigger than it appears in WC3: Reforged. Because of that, Arthas had to make an ice bridge to get to the Sunwell. So don't blame it on the reforged team. The original intent of Reforged was to make it closer to the "new" lore so it lines up closer to how things are presented in WoW. So that is the reason why maps like Stratholme and Dalaran got changed. However at some point blizzard didn't continue with the idea (most likely because they ran out of time, even with a delay and blamed it on "purists").
@@georgiishmakov9588 perhaps freezing riverwater is harder than ocean water? Or uhh... it would waste his energy so he couldnt do it again later? Idk, it looks silly but it doesnt detract from it too much on my end
@@georgiishmakov9588 frostmourne makes arthas stronger with every person he slays. So he was just not powerful enough yet for it. Guess ganking a second capital city gave him enough power for the spell. Also in lore arthas actually builds a bridge of corpses in the key of free moons mission.
@@georgiishmakov9588 because thats how the mission was designed back in the og game. in the lore, he crossed that river by piling the bodies of elves to make an artificial bridge. we had to use zeppelins in the last one because they did not want to make such a huge deviation from the og game. Here it acts as a simple nod to some lore sources.
@@wansichen3743 TLDR: Yesn't. The joke in vid was about how Sylvanas got mashed into circa 8 or so main plot threads over the last few expansions for no real reason/logical goal and now with all of shadowlands being lead by her pulling a Deus Ex Machina as big as the retcons in WOTLK. However, the issue is because WoW has been written by people (be it Golden and Danuser actually getting to canonize literal self insert shipping fanfics or Copeland not knowing anything other than wiki synopsis on what happened in WC1-3) that essentially make wattpad posts seem as high quality classic literature, Sylvanas ACTUALLY had no growth nor importance on the plot as a main actor, even in peak character potential of conflicts with Garrosh she was left a pale shadow compared to even a few short lived fetch quest npcs simply due to mary sue status blizz decided to slap on her since around TBC (ironically making her everything that the people that liked her disliked in other characters) instead of following up on the few cool lines they gave her that were more in line with her WC3 self.
@@ANDELE3025 Pretty much. Sylvanas at first seemed to me like discount Kerrigan - she gets killed, transformed into the thing she was killed by, and then doesn't show up for the rest of the game. Then the team decided "Oh we don't have any cool characters in the undead, let's bring her back for Frozen Throne and make her important." Then Warcraft lore got even bigger across WoW and expos and suddenly the whole "Well we need a leader for the undead legion" became "Hey people love this character let's make her an even bigger deal and put her literally everywhere since she's like the face of our game now." I feel like what ended up happening to Kerrigan through SC2 was a bigger retcon than Sylvanas but both definitely got the whole "Let's make the ENTIRE UNIVERSE warp around this character retroactively" treatment.
@@MythrilZenith True, but id argue that Kerrigan at least fit the idea (if you REALLY wanted to stuff something down the physical god route of the story). Personally i like to think that WoL is Raynors suicide hallucination, HotS as far as mutation/sector control is whats happening without the re-infesting/regrouping kerri bits and LotV is just toss fanfic after they got 90% wiped out). Sylvanas meanwhile had a good place as the foil to KTs role and human Arthas morality/choices which was entirely lost with the """writing""" for her (much like how Artanis somehow being able to infect all of the toss with naive optimism mere months after a chain of planetary purges and severing Khala when the last time something even vaguely close happened all out war sparked).
Grant calling 'into the eternal realm' boring but it's like my favourite mission. The trick is to play it like a child, go full roleplay with it, build unnecessary bases, really lean into that 'slow creeping doom' element, unnecessarily spread blight around, overchop wood, be a literal horror movie villain towards the elves. Not uh.... not super applicable to deathless though.
11:49 Do you consider a posessing Banshee "Dead?" Or only if the possessed unit dies? Or are there just not good enough units to possess to make it worth it just to get units immune to the anti undead field?
Actually, during The Fall Of Silvermoon in the original you could access the runners with ground forces. I always built Spirit Towers along the 3 or 4 routes they took so that I could get rid of the Gargoyles and get some more units for the assault.
I was SHOCKED when I clicked on the videos tab of your channel just to see you have a measly 9 videos if we include this one. I was like "woah, did RU-vid purge all of his vids?" But then I remembered that yours is actually a very young channel, GGG, even though it feel like I've been following it for years since it exclusively deals with games from my childhood and uploads quality content only, making it feel like there is more of it than just 1 upload a month or so. Congrats on getting to 33k subs! Here's to many more!
"but arthas never learned how to do that because his soldiers never died" and if you look at the end of the previous video you will see thats actually true as he has one unspent skillpoint, GGG has more consistency and better lore then Blizzard
I remembered playing Warcraft 3 and played it like a casual scrub but holy crap. This game looks so much more fun and tactical when a good player is playing it
It still doesn´t make sense. Sylvanas is portrayed as a brilliant leader and tactitian. The Silvermoon Ranger Corps was basically a screening force, designed to slow the enemy down and give the main army time to mobilize. The fact that Sylvanas didn´t think about sending runners until Arthas was literally next to Silvermoon is beyond me. Not to mention that almost every High Elf was a magic user. Couldn´t she have simply told one of her magically adept soldiers to teleport to Silvermoon and let them know? This is one of the dumbest plot holes in Warcraft 3.
"I dearly hope there's a special place in hell waiting for you, Arthas." Ends up personally sending Arthas to that special place (the Maw) in Shadowlands 19 years later.
Moments after starting the video I realize that for you Arthas only has 2 abilties, since his ultimate summons timed life units and death pact kills allies! Same with being unable to use sacrifice for Kel'thuzad, and you can't create shades because it requires killing an acolyte!
@@Blutwind Mirror images are illusions so they technically shouldn't, kinda like the hallucinations of the high templars in star craft. But not sure since "timed units die when they expire".
The frozen bridge at the end of The Fall of Silvermoon might be to line up with WoW better. During the BElf heritage armor questline (Which was added at the start of BFA and well before reforged) you can see Arthas make a frozen bridge from Silvermoon to the isle of Quel'Danas. It's a little awkward since a previous mission was all about not being able to cross a river... Maybe that mission was also supposed to be reforged to include Dar'Khan Drathir or something... but just wasn't.
I will say, I absolutely love your content, I don't play Warcraft but these playthroughs where you try not to lose any units are insanely interesting for me. Are you planning on trying challenges like this on any more RTS games?
i think you're a bit unfair about the reforged missions on this one, especially because on the fall of silvermoon you said you liked the gameplay better and then on the siege of dalaran you start out by saying it's 0-2, then after the mission you say the mission (aside from antonidas) was pretty good. and in defense of the antonidas fight, i think the idea was that he summoned all those golems and elementals, so it does make sense he doesn't have mana anymore under the burning sky seems to more fun now, especially since you actually have to actually defend now as opposed to having minor defenses set up and microing arthas a little bit the culling was not what they promised, but it is a slight upgrade imo AND YOU CAN HEAL THE INFERNALS? I REMEMBER IN MY VERSION I HAD AS A KID SPELL IMMUNITY WAS TO ALL SPELLS?! (which was especially annoying with the mountain king because you want to ult as late as possible to get the most defense out of it, but if he got focused you had no possibility to get him out or heal him)
The tooltip says infernals have immunity to _negative_ spells. But I wouldn't be surprised if there was a glitch in the original engine that gave them immunity to _all_ spells, including beneficial ones.
@@General12th i'm pretty sure in the original there wasn't "spell immunity to negative spells" but only general spell immunity. it also makes total sense whatever anti-magic shield is there can't make a difference between positive and negative. balance-wise it also doesn't seem like an issue to me, spell immunity wouldn't be a buff or debuff, but just an attribute you'd have to balance the unit around. the only moment i recall it being annoying and not making sense for gameplay was having the mountain king basically debuffing himself with an ultimate ability. very important point about the version: i didn't get frozen throne for a long time and just played an unpatched RoC. i looked it up just now, i didn't find the spell immunity per se, but i found that level 10 dragons aren't spell immune after patch 1.03 (9.10.2002), but level 10 dragons were spell immune in my version. i don't recall how it worked when i got TFT, if i just overlooked this change or i avoided the issue, therefore not realising it has been changed (or it has been changed on later TFT, not on the version i played on)
2:37 _The objective of digging up the dead is super unique_ Me: bracing... _There are four human paladins scattered around the map that need to be destroyed_ Me: white knuckles, pupils wide, sweating... _each of them guarded by a progressively stronger force of enemies_ *AND THE CROWD GOES WILD*
I remember playing wc3 when I was a kid and I had the same experience with the final mission of the undead campaign. Maybe it was bugged back then on normal difficulty to send the entire defense as well, and that bug you had is a result of that? Or maybe I was just terrible, who knows.
I never had them send peasants to the fight in classic campaign. I do remember it being a tough level, though little me discovered the beauty of static defense which helped a lot.
5:00 what do yo mean by "... *after* Warcraft 3"? WC3 and its Frothen Throne expansion are final games in the series. Even if I would have been willing to acknowledge MMO's existence, it's canonicity to RTS seris is the same as of mobile CnC games to Tiberium Dawn or how almost every CoD game is a separate universe.
These are incredibly. Great editing, great idea, great commentary. Best find of this year so far for me. I'll check out your streams soon. Also the "missed Blizzard" joke killed me. Incredible.
It'll get pretty wild with Watchtowers I bet, but I'm sure there's going to be a way to hide or retreat peons from the forward bases in the Cenarius mission.
To be fair I think the fact that they are sending everything at you even workers in the final mission is pretty cool. I mean they are trying to stop the end of the world :D
The sheer cheery spin you put on everything gives a hilarious dissonance to everything. Well done. Also with the orcs look into their spiked barricades. Those upgrades will make it so that any building you put up will retaliate melee damage. Not much use against night elves but against all other foes it will prove invaluable and make building tanking even more viable than before.
Those moments with the elven rivers are explained in the book (which served as the basis for the frozen bridge). At the first river he didn't use zeppelins in lore but sent undead in until their bodies basicay formed a land bridge through the river. The second time, the water was to big to do that so he used his ice spell which did drain a lot of stamina if I recall right.
Oh and about sylvanas in the open field: sylvanas was covering for refugees that were still escaping,thaza why she was outside, she bought time. However the game designers failed to implement this. Long story short: the lore is allright there, the game didn't quite deliver.
Man, I wish someone would make a hip new RTS that would be revered for the next 20 years. It's a shame that blizzard and EA can't be trusted to make decent games.
Lore minute: According to the lore the Arthas' horse died then he was quite young, after Lich King made him a Death Knight one of the first things he done is ressurercted Invincible - his horse.
I liked this run. The thing that made me smile the msot was hearing your excitement about the interesting ideas in the Mage City. You wee so into it it was great.
Siege of Dalaran: You can skip the entire mission by massing Frost Wyrms, traveling north along the west of the map and hitting Antonidas from the north. The game teleports Arthas and Kel`Thuzad to the fight and you're good to go. "Only mission Reforged cared about". Well...
I think that was probably a joke but the reason Sylvanas sends runners is that she hasn't been able to alert Silvermoon itself of Arthas' attack. If the runner reaches the end, the main base starts sending waves to your base too. What I find funny is that despite running their only reason to exist, runners are almost always one of the slowest units in any mission. I get it's for game balance but I still find it amusing.
Did they turn the highelf archers into dudes? My disdain for this abomination knows no bounds. and they Wowified all the designes?thats just shameful.....oh AND they put in shitty story retcons and included characters that were not there originally?? WTF.... this keeps getting worse -.- holy shit
"I don't know how he got a horse" WEEEEEEEEEEEEEELLL. Lorewise, the horse, (Named Invincible) was his favorite horse who sadly died in an accident during a snowstorm on one of his rides through Tirisfal. After dying and coming back as a Death Knight, one of his first actions was to go to the grave of his departed horse and raise it into undeath. That's why Arthas has a horse :D
3:00 Wait, seriously? They bothered to mark the paladins on the map? Even though the map is completely linear? Wow. How did we ever manage to complete this mission in the original without these crucial clues?
I am surprised he didn't learn Raise Dead for the last mission. If he raised dead at the last minute, timer would not expire until the end, potentially making last stand slightly easier.
If a runner reaches Silvermoon, the map becomes a 2v1 match which is why it is recommended to kill Sylvanas and her forces first. On another note, I liked the final fight in the original here, 4 level 9 granite golems and 4 towers protecting the Sunwell. Those golems would be challenging to face in a deathless run since they are resistant to magic and have the hurl boulder ability, not to mention the chaos damage.
Might you do the original Warcraft 3, but with different challenges of course so that you don't get bored? Throughout your Reforged playthroughs there seem to be some consistently disappointing changes.
