Can you build a 5-Speed to be as strong as an STI 6-Speed? 

After three 5 speed rebuilds I finally bought a 6 speed with dccd and I can say that’s the best thing I have ever done to my Subaru. It’s literally a different car now - it’s quicker, much more easier to drive in traffic and now it also handles much better while doing some racing. The gearing just seems spot on.

Went from a 4.11 ratio 5 speed to 3.9 ratio 6 speed an never looked back. The 6 speed literally transformed how the whole car feels overall. No question, 6 speed or bust!

I had this exact scenario recently and went with the 6-speed for all the reasons you mentioned. The video with Dave was a tremendous help and really pushed me over the edge. Now for me going from JDM 5-speed (STI type RA with DCCD) to a JDM 6-speed (with DCCD) the ratios are actually better. Basically the same ratios for 1-4 and a closer 5-6, making 5th a more usable gear. Thank you for all the great videos, keep them coming.

Hey guys thanks for answering my question! I’m the Joe you mention lol. I paid about $5000 for parts including the rebuild kit and labor by Andrewtech in 2015 so prices were slightly lower… I ordered the PPG torsen diff for about $1900 and I installed it myself. Other things that went into me considering this choices was axles and brakes because my setup is in a 2002 WRX wagon. At the time I didn’t know what to do about the longer axles from a sedan as well as the hub conversion to 5x114.3 which would require getting new wheels. (I have 18” Prodrive P1s which I love) It was just very convenient to remove and replace with the same trans. Also if you ever have to replace or repair Brembos it can be very expensive. Any other questions let me know! Love your videos and tech discussions!

This is good information. It's been a couple of years now be we spoke about building my 04 Forester XT engine. The build has been finished now for a while and is super solid. I appreciate the knowledge you shared with me. It came off the dyno with 350 whp and 350 lbs-ft of torque. Needless to say, I drive pretty easy to keep the trans together. Though there are the occasional spirited drive moments. No launching just rolling into the power. I have been throwing the idea around for a bit now on swapping over the trans or building out the 5MT. Outside of throwing on some blast plates, It seems that the 07 STI 6MT is the way to go. Thanks again for the info. Look forward to the next video.

I am surprised this channel isn’t over a million subscribers strong, quality stuff

I have a 2013 WRX with a 5spd and I was actually looking into building mine up as I love the gear ratio, and the weight differences, but I’m torn with having a 6spd just for the dccd though. I’m only daily driving mine though, haven’t the money to even begin to think about tracking it just yet. Great video all around and might just help me make up my mind, thanks guys! 👏🏽👏🏽👏🏽

Love the vids!

Off the line on the street I liked the 06 5 spd with 3.70 final, picked up speed fast in 1&2 gears. After 409,000km it blew 2nd & locked up. 2013 6 spd in now gives piece of mind for power levels

There are more version of 6mt gearing, while JDM is short and doesn't give you longer final gear, USDM/EDM hawkeye 6 speed has longer gears that are somewhere between WRX 5speed gearing and the 6th is longer than WRX 5th so it is beneficial as well. And for people outside the US and Japan, the STI had non-DCCD 6speed until 2005 which can be sourced cheaper and doesn't need any additional wiring.

Great videos as always. Just wanted to put my 0.02 here…. Original owner of a 2011 WRX here that I’ve had for almost 12 years now. Been running my car on the 5spd the entire time with 410ft lbs of wheel torque through it with no problems to this day. I think what’s been the most important thing is respecting the transmission for what it is. Don’t dump clutches, hard shift, or roll on throttle in too tall of a gear. The transmission loves to be finessed into the right gear at the right engine speed,unlike other vehicles Respect it and it’ll last a long time.

Jon's the man 💪

I bought the 08 LGT gear set years ago from you guys for my 5spd. I wanna say I spent around $3500 give or take to have it rebuilt back in like 2010 or so.

You sure can!! I chose the Pfitzner 1st-4th straight cut gear set for my 02 WRX 5 speed and it's been bulletproof for years now

Yup lol looked this up with the consideration of building the 5 speed, but definitely threw that thought out the window

Watching this makes me feel so much better about the $ spent on my car that has a full 6 speed swap in it. I bought my RS for $15k with an EJ207 in it and a full 6spd swap, all done by Rallispec back in 2017-2018. It is running the EJ207 ECU and functional AVCS

My MY99/00 5 speed was re-built with custom shaft With Late model STI Gears 1-2-3 and Wider Late Model WRX gears 4-5. (there is a bit of a larger RPM Drop from 3rd to 4th than when it was stock, but i adjusted to it in couple days) - Does 55-60kph in 1st and 115-120kph in 2nd @ only 6500rpm. - Modified Syncros i can shift into 1st at about 40kph for downshifting. (tho i normally dont thrash the car as i want my 99 GF8 to last me another 15-20 years as its my last car)

I had a 5speed got a deal on full 6speed swap including breembo my little issue is am feeling the gears a bit stiff at times & sometimes reverse a bit hard to get any advice great video but never regret the swap as i don't daily the car

Very informative video with a great answers 👍 I have my own questions overall I'm not a mechanic I'm just a SUbi enthusiast. I have a 2003 Subaru Baja non turbo 2.5L 4cylinder 165 hp with 250 thousand miles on it. I really love this car I really wanted finally bought 6 month ago the engine is weak started to consume a lot of oil and transmission doesn't shift as smooth as supposed to be with that all being said I want to do on engine upgrade with turbo and 6sp manual transmission I'm on a budget but not specting to be cheap. What recommendation would you suggest on this particular model in order to make the swap. By the way this car is not for a racing it will be for car show and daily driver. Hopefully you take the time to read my comment thank you very much

If you don’t chase massive power the 4:11 5 speed is bliss, x specially with the V series turbo say VF22 or 28

My main issue is 100Km/h cruising speed where either in a 5spd or 6spd the engine RPM is just shy of 3000 RPM and the 5spd ratios do the turbo justice. 1st gear is almost useless so taller ration diff's would be a good option for me. At the moment I'm running 225x55x17 tyres with speedo correction, this has dropped my 100Km/h RPM down to 2600 which provides much better economy and range per tank. I've driven 6spd subi's but I prefer my 5spd.

ill probably be doing the change to a sti 6 speed it looks like. i see your website offers everything to make this happen. not to insult the company, but do you guys carry a high amount of transmissions/ driveshafts/ etc new or used in order for people to make these builds possible? or do you source them after an order has been placed?

ive been wondering how strong the geared auto transmissions are? me coming from my 2010 outback 3.6 that has the 5eat and my 05 lgt 5eat i love the transmission. ive seen on fb groups of people pushing them over 400 but that's about it

In those price comparisons did you not include labor for the 6 speed swap or was that already included in the price?

my local pick and pull charges $200 for a 5 speed so it is equally cost effective to just buy 35 5 speeds

As of right now me bader and several others are throwing well over 1100whp at the 2015+ stock from factory trans

Hello.. just watched the video.. thank you for the great info and comparison.. I’ve done both 6speed swap and also a 5speed upgrade using a Moores Blast plate I would like to suggest that the moores plate has withheld up to 450whp/torque. Perhaps you guys can look into this and talk about it in your next podcast for the cheapest / reliable 5speed performance use. 😬

I have a jdm wrx 4.44 05-07 5mt and it’s holding 400 hp and torque to the wheels right now. My car weights 2000lbs so wheel spin is the issue.

I have been holding on to a 5mt with dccd and 4.44 ratio for years

This is where I am stuck at right now. Pushing 480whp/450wtq right now, but i cant be very aggressive with it.

After pricing on your site it looks like a full swap, with new parts, would come in alot closer to 15k without labor than the 6-7k mentioned. At this price I can build 2-3 5 speeds with gears. Admittedly the cases will still be weaker but a much more viable option for those of us with cars worth a fraction of the 6 speed swaps.

As someone who has yet to get their Subaru (but really wants to for time attack) the question I’ve been toiling with is just waiting longer and getting an sti or getting a WRX at a fraction the price and doing the swap. With a new 6 speed in a 04-05 it seems like it’ll basically be the same price as getting an sti. I could buy used and save like 3k on the same swap. The full scope of the dream is building out for GridLife street and then street mod classes in the next 5+ years. I feel like if I keep the whp below 600 I could stick with a mostly stock sti drive train reliably and save money in the long run. I want to try and plot this out as best I can so I don’t creep completely out of control but I’m lost on this initial decision.

Great idea for a topic! Just swapped in a 6 speed myself after blowing a 5 speed at about 330 ft-lbs. (never launched, blew 2nd) and am really curious what you have to say (haven't watched yet).

Next topic what is the max power and torque you can get out of a 5eat? I've heard around 400whp with an external transmission cooler i feel like no one ever talks about the autos I've been told there pretty good

Having had the 6 speed fail on the third session of the first track day I did with a 2018 Type-RA when I had it, I decided I would rather run a cheap car with cheap 5 speeds and just throw in used 5 speeds for cheap if they fail LOL

I love my 5 speed but we built a 400+ hp setup and I'm only on 10psi 😢 Its been my daily for about 3 years and no issues but in turning the power up finally and I know the trans isn't going to last.

Not to rehash this subject, but I am curious about these two options versus a sequential

So sequential it is❤

Question for you guys. I had the chance to take my friends 6spd swapped WRX for a spin, the main thing I noticed was how much higher the clutch engagement was (pedal almost all the way released) compared to my easy to modulate 5speed with the engagement at the middle of the pedal stroke. Is that poor adjustment or how it’s supposed to be??

🔥🔥🔥

Hi could anyone tell me the best place to buy a new or rebuilt 6 speed transmission in the uk ?

I could be wrong, But I think the price of the PPG gearset has actually gone down? I thought I remember the gear set alone being like $6-7000 like 6-7 years ago. Might have been for the full rebuild though.

Is there a difference in strength between the 5 speed AWD and 2WD transaxles? e.g. TM752 vs TY752

Just curious on yalls opinions on blast plates and how useful those are in a 5 speed transmission

I have a question. Is there a video of testing blast plates on a stock 5 speed?

@Jon, What's your thoughts on "Blast Plates"?

is there a stronger Ring & Pinion option for the 5 speed? I want to use one in a FWD application. and with all the torque now going to the front diff, I have to worry.

I have an important question to me right now that i hope you can answer very soon. So i have a 6spd from a VA WRX and i was wondering. Does the front diff have bushings or bearings where the CV axles go? I have deep gouges on the surface where the front driver side CV axle sits and this is resulting in major leaking and noticeable clunking everytime it goes into that gouge. If this means the front diff needs to be replaced would it be better for me to do an STi drivetrain swap or rebuild the OG 6spd? Last time i drained the transmission i found the fluid to be black and full of sparkles and not to mention the obvious clump of grey gloop on the drain plug, so its probably due for a rebuild. (This car just litterally ticked over 103k miles as of 02-12-24) Engine also ticks at 3k rpm🥲

Would a legacy GT transmission or XT 5 speed be worthy of an upgrade before investing in a 6 speed?

I blew up my 5 speed in my '12 WRX and got myself a JDM 5 speed transmission and diff off a '13 WRX. Are JDM 5 speeds any improvement compared to USDM 5 Speeds?

Are you comparing a rebuilt 5-speed to a used 6-speed or a new or rebuilt one. I have also heard horror stories of not being able to find anyone that would rebuild a 6-speed. What would that cost?

22b sti 5 speed is pretty fun to have for city driving. it takes a bit fuel but it picks speed good. Especially with a Ej255 running at 8:5:1 compression ratio and 14.5 pounds of boost pressure. with the dccd version the lock mode gives good acceleration. it's not heavy either. The 6 speed is quite heavy and affects drivability at city limits. But on the highway the 6th gear allows for more speed.

At about 500ftlbs the 5 speed lasts about ~100pulls

Would a PPG 1st-4th gear set work in a Legacy Spec B 6 spd?

What is the strength caparison of the WRX 2015+ 6MT to the sti 6 speed?

What kind of top speed have people gotten on just the 6 speed swap with the wrx diffs?

--Does the 2022 WRX 6MT have the old WRX 6MT, or is it the STI 6MT? Or other? I mean, exactly what 6MT is in the 2022 WRX? --If it's the old WRX 5MT that was converted to a 6MT, is it worth it to buy an STI 6MT and put it in my 2022? Or, maybe buy a 5MT and build it?

What about PPG 5mt dogbox vs 6MT. Obviously the Dogbox is more expensive but is it faster?

i have a 2007 wrx and from what i can gather it is literally the worst candidate for a swap everything must be replaced the knuckles and suspension the brakes and rear diff would you still reccommend the swap on this vehicle my goal is 500 hp

Would you need a sti gauge cluster for a 6 speed or does the aftermarket dccd controller not need it?

Can the dccd diff from a 6 speed be installled on the 5 speed

The 5 speed isnt worth building imo. I had an RA gear 5 speed break on me on a vf34 e85 set up. I then went to a 6 speed with an auto driveshaft and re used my r160 diff. i spent about 3300 on the swap including the little things that were needed.

6spd case with stronger 5 speed gears set

Is my v6 STI 5 speed any stronger than a stander USDM wrx 5 speed?

Hello i have build transmission strong 5 speed Albins-Gear semi Helical, my car have 435 HP and 460 N/m torque, plate Exedy stage 2, oem flywheel, disk ACT stage 2, all bolt in transmission Steel 12.9 torque 50N/m, oem 35 N/m and don’t have any problem make 15000 km very strong.

Wish there was a cheap option for a six speed swap

The best option is to buy a busted used 6 speed and build that. The selectors in the STI trans are made of glass.

Disclaimer: Just my findings; Love FT and buys parts from them; FT has been very helpful with my 2002 WRX; not advertising anyone else... just sharing knowledge from those who build 5 and 6spd MT for Subaru. Question: How is the car being used? What is the horsepower/torque? This should dictate everything. A 2.0L is a 2.0L, not a 6.0L LS. Subaru builds phenomenal power per liter. I wish Subaru had a 6.0L, I would make it fit. 🙂 That being said, it is my belief that 4 cylinder cars should be as light as possible in weight. As a penny saved is a penny earned, weight saved is power earned. 1) 5spd cases can only take about 350 FtLbs of torque due to the helical gears pushing the shafts out the end of the case. If you go with a straight cut gear, this problem is reduced significantly. The driving style will dictate what the 5spd will hold, as well. However, straight cut gears are noisy. 2) I have been informed by the builders there is about 100 lbs in spinning mass difference from the 5spd to the 6spd. If this is the case, this will definitely take away the responsiveness of the drivetrain. From this site (FT) and others, it has been stated up to 350HP/350FtLbs is the threshold of reliability for WRX/STI. Thus, one has to ask him/herself where will the power be maxed out at for the particular setup. 3) What I have been told: If you are going upwards of 500HP or more, you want the 6spd for reliability; simply put the 5spd will become a grenade at this power level. Stay with a 5spd setup as long as you can, especially if you don't exceed the 350HP/FtLbs mark. You will lose power to the ground due to the +100lbs spinning mass in the 6spd. 4) Many different types of gear ratios are available, and depending on the power level, you don't need bullet proof gears; you just need gears that have been proven to sustain the power and torque you are going to use. 5) Do not modify the gears after buying them such as smoothing them, or treating them. This will throw the tolerances way out, and cause the gears to not mesh as they were designed. To John's point, you will get less surface contact on the teeth because the tolerances are altered. So, a perfect set of gears for your application and power can be completely destroyed when "You" decide to add in your own internet engineering. Listen to the pros and accept what they have to say; they know what they are doing. 6) What I have been taught, and see: More shifts means more time. The last time I checked, drivers/racers want less time. Hmmmm? 🤔 7) YOU WANT FULL POSITRACTION!!! Believe me, this has made a huge difference for me on the street and taking corners and keeping traction. This is real AWD, not the open diff crap you get from the factory. This is especially helpful on non-asphalt services, or when there is gravel on the roads and in corners. FAIR WARING! You will have to change your driving style... You have to steer the car back straight when coming out of the corner. If you do not, the car will continue to turn that direction. 8) Choose a gear set that compliments the performance of your engine. DO YOUR DUE DILIGENCE! Make sure you have done the math to ensure the gears you are using don't shift you out of your boost/power range. If the engine is not built yet, then pick the drivetrain you want, then build the engine to compliment that drivetrain. DO THE MATH FOR BOTH... Engine and drivetrain. 9) Keep Horsepower numbers out of your head... I have seen properly setup cars (engines and drivetrains matched in form and function) with less horsepower annihilate higher horsepower cars on the street. That is fact. My Setup for those who care... I have an 02 WRX Wagon (Grocery Getter). The stock 5spd MT would allow me to see speeds up to 135ish. However, shifting would cause the engine to fall out of boost. With much consideration and how I drive, I gave up one thing I wanted to keep... I went to 3.0 1st gear instead 3.4 1st. Thus, I have to work the clutch more, I can launch and stay in 1st longer, go to 2nd gear and stay in boost. This affords me 1-4 in boost. I also forfeited top 4th gear speed, but probably to save me from going to jail. Here is the setup for my grocery getter. Believe me, 0-107mph is very fast and aggressive, considering it is currently a 275HP USDM 2.0L with 194K miles. In the near future it will be max 350HP/FtLbs 2.0L JDM motor. 1) 5 spd MT custom built by ????? Design. Dual first and RA 2-4 gears; Dual carbon synchros 1st and 2nd and new synchros for the rest; stock 5th gear for highway speeds; Torsen LSD in the front. 2) R160 AP Racing posi rearend 3) Kept stock 3.9 gear ratio, with 1.1 reduction setup. (Side note: 1.1 reduction is a clever design by Subaru. I like the science behind it. It reduces the speed of the driveshaft to save power.) 4) Running a steel 1 piece driveshaft (5lbs savings from stock 2 piece) for durability and repair. Carbon too expensive for budget, and cannot be repaired easily or at all. Aluminum would require a hammer for clearance issues... not going to happen. 5) Using a Spec clutch kit, nothing fancy, with stock flywheel to keep the harmonics under control on the street for drivability and rush hour traffic. I would rather have the clutch slip in the future than allow the power of the new engine to break the trans. Clutch kits are less expensive. Pricing: Trans: $4600 includes some extras (bushings, etc) Diff: $900 Steel Driveshaft: $600 Clutch Kit: $350 TOTAL: $6450 not including speeding tickets 😋🤣😂

None of us are surprised how expensive this is 😂😂😂

6 Speed All The Way

TL;DW: Sure, but why would you?

Just get the 6spd with Dccd end of story.

blasst plates are a solution

Built? ... more like built of glass 😂

Simple answer before I even watch the video. No

...so... long story short, just sell your WRX and buy an STI

For me its not worth the time & effort for the gains, & the ppg straight cut said $3499 & u said 3400 😑 total of 7k not $6900, 100 bucks is a 100 bucks, do what i did, i bought a crashed 3L liberty 6 speed for $1500 & swapped it & sold everything else, got a free 6 speed swap