Ha, all these comments. I like the skepticism. Perfectly natural. People had doubts about hydraulic power steering. What if the seals blow out? What if the column shears? What if orifices block off? What if the applied force rips off tie rods? What happens to working fluid viscosity throughout its operational life? How well will the fluid tolerate winter and summer temperatures? Why should we expend the gas to power any of it when you could get a nice upper body workout everytime you drive? Why not just use bigger steering wheels? Why should I rely on a high speed pump constantly wearing itself down to eventual failure? Why not gear it in and increase number of wheel turns to up mechanical advantage? Why rely on flimsy steering rod connections? Why drive at all when you could ride a horse? Why ride a horse when you have two perfectly good legs? Recurring complaint seems to be electronic failure. Buddy systems make anyone feel better? Drivers are GOING to be removed from the drivers seat. Semi-Truck driving jobs will be the first major vocational economic casualty of driverless cars.
I keep hearing that but technological limitations aside there's going to be a huge amount of red tape to be cut before automation can be considered a viable option. We won't just hit the ground running the day all the bugs are worked out. There will also likely be problems to arise that we're not even considering yet.
+elintra I see the point sailed right over your dome. That point being, there are problems with every system, electrical or hydraulic. But please tell me more how I have no understanding of any electrical setup in any system in the world.
I'm a computer tech (systems engineer). This is why the next vehicle I buy will have 0 computers in the drivetrain (12v Cummins 6BT manual mid 90s Dodge 2500). I would also say that I don't want to be driven anywhere. There's a reason my primary vehicle is a motorcycle in the summer. To drive for the pleasure of driving (or riding, in the care of the bike) is one of the reasons why I typically buy older vehicles.
I believe mechanical parts will be always in there, since this is a safety component, e.g,. in the case electronic fails, you still have one shot to steer the car and avoid an acident.
Mordern cars already have reached the point where they entirely rely on electronics to function. In fact, if your car was built in the last 30 years, it wouldn't even start and/or run if the electronic failed. There's no reson to believe that electronic component are inherently less reliable than mechanical parts.
@@jean-naymar602 cars have redundant system, this is a safety requirement. Try shutting down the engine (simulating an electronivlc failure) while driving, brakes and steering wheel will still function but very heavy.
@@jean-naymar602 I heard the same often that there would be cars without mechanical linkage between the steering wheel and the wheels. But after a quick Google i read everywhere that such cars don’t exist. Any car on the road has a mechanical linkage between the steering wheel and the wheels. And i wouldn’t see a reason to skip such mechanical linkage; The safety factor in being able to steer is most important of anything. Lives depend on it. You can drive for an hour with a stuck throttle, maybe even an hour without brakes, but 30 seconds without steering is definitely a crash. And in electronics there are Way more linkages to make something work which can fail, than just having a steel rod doing the job.
Airbus the airplane manufacturer is famous for their "fly-by-wire" plane, all of the control surfaces on the airplane are electronic instead of a direct hydraulic connection to the cockpit, its all electrical wires. Mechanical is much less reliable and more expensive to maintain than electronic, which is a lot lighter and with many less moving parts.
@@jean-naymar602 tell that to the electronic throttle boddies and the run aways. the car in my pic is a 89 mark 7, the breaks are electronic, if the pump, motor, or accumulator goes bad, ill have no breaks at all
Power Steering = Assisted Steering, you basically don't use all your physical strength to steer the tires, the car has a mechanism to do so either using liquids and a pump or an electric motor and computer... If this was a joke then meh.
I like the way they make it sound like cars were hard to drive without Power steering;; my first 6 cars didn't have it and they were no harder to drive than the Granada my brother let me have a go of which did. For the record I also drove a 3 ton (yes they were 3 ton Unladen back then not 7.5 Tonne Gross) truck which also had no power steering and was an absolute pleasure to drive. My current car has power steering but it seems to go a lot further; in that it gets tighter at speed when it isn't really needed; and becomes very light at parking speeds.
Regarding full electric steering ("steer by wire"), I don't think electric systems are inherently less reliable than mechanical ones. I think if it is built well, an electric system can actually last far longer than a mechanical one. A properly designed electric system can be simpler, lighter and have fewer moving parts. The problem is that manufacturers today seem to have a preference for building extremely low quality electronics. I think the reason is that with electronics, it is harder to tell the difference between quality and junk. Since the average consumer can't tell the difference, companies cut as many corners as possible to increase their profits. Also, there is a tendency to include flashy, unnecessary gimmicks to make a product more marketable. All of these so-called "extra features" just increase the complexity of the system and create more potential failure points.
I understand where you're coming from, but I'm not sure if I feel the same way. I guess it depends on how much you trust the vehicle's maker to build something that won't "break" unexpectedly. Manual backup is undoubtedly safer, but the question is, how safe do you want to be? The absolute safest form of transportation would probably be just walking, but hardly anyone insists on that level of safety. Most people prefer to drive because they feel that the benefits of driving outweigh its safety risks. The same principle applies to electronic vehicle controls. Some people will feel the benefits outweigh the risks, others won't. As for me, I'd have to consider the overall context before I could decide.
we dont trust vehicle makers because they are in for the money. i mean look at vw group and their emission cheats, shortcuts taken by toyota to reduce reliability and the list goes on......
+beating2 I agree. I think it is foolish to assume that a corporation is anything like a real person. It is really a machine designed to generate profit for its shareholders. That is a corporation's only function, and the only goal it can pursue. Thankfully, there are situations where it's profitable for a corporation to act in the best interests of its customers. Toyota, for example, makes vehicles that are generally very mechanically reliable. They have a reputation for lasting a long time and requiring relatively few repairs. This reputation has made Toyota very successful, and allowed it to generate a lot of profit. So we can trust that the company wants to maintain its reputation by continuing to make reliable vehicles. This is good for consumers, but Toyota's motivation is nonetheless purely selfish.
1000% agree! My wife's new Kia is electric power steering and brake assist, as are most new cars, and I can't stand it! The steering wheel feel changes with road speed (virtually 0 resistance at idle/crawl speeds, very stiff at highway speeds... just make it the same at all speeds! ugh!). The brakes I hate more! Press a little and they do very little. Press a little more and you about smack your face into the steering wheel (particularly when under 15mph)! Also, braking of the vehicle changes as you slow down and the transmission downshifts. Even tho you keep your foot at the same place on the brake pedal, your rate of deceleration changes all over the place, especially in the Sport modes!!! I find that not only annoying but dangerous! In stop & go traffic, my rental Jeep Cherokee was all over the place on braking rate in sport mode! First I'd be slowing too slow, then the tranny would shift and I'd have my head snap forward, and then it would release & I'd be braking too slow again! Way too easy cause accidents like that!!! Make it all THE SAME, like old vehicles, where braking speed doesn't change unless you change your pedal position!
You can change degree of rotation from let's say 900 to 550 for instance. Also autonomous cars may become safer statistically so it would be the logical choice.
as long as you utilize discreet circuitry and basic computing rather than complex computers that can have bugs and crash, then the reliability just comes down to your power source. hydraulic power steering only works if your engine runs, which is ostensibly much quicker to fail than a battery which, as long as it's charged, won't suffer mechanical failure. engines and pumps can all together have thousands of moving parts. a battery and computer have 0, and an electric motor drive will have maybe a dozen. All in all, the most-impervious-to-mechanical-failure option is a legit manual rack and pinion. but pinning electronic against hydraulic, you could make the argument any day that electronic is actually more reliable.
Absolutely. I don't know about the US or other countries but here in Germany a Steer-By-Wire system with no mechanical connection is actually illegal. By law motor vehicles have to be steerable even when power steering fails.
I see in the comments people are defending steer by wire by saying if it breaks it automatically kicks in a mechanical system. Thats stupid, because the whole point of steer by wire is too save weight and space, and if you have a an emergency mechanical system, then you have defeated the purpose. Might as well leave the mechanical system on
I like electric power steering when it's dialled in correctly, actually feels better in many cases. I don't want steer by wire though. No need for that shit.
Well if you don’t want steer by wire you better not fly on an airplane because the new airliners like airbus use it and I know F16 fighters use the system because I used to work on them.
@@goodfoot7926 But isn't there more than one of those flap like things on each wings. Can't the plane be still controlled with one of them not working? It's not the same in cars. The steering is the only thing that can control the car.
You'll only get good steering on performance cars these days. Modern run of the mill cars, with overly assisted controls have awful steering and handling.
I say the advantages of a power steering is it is good at executing parking like parallel and reverse parking as you can get the turn you want with minimum steer makes you less prone on over steering that can cause you errors. It takes less muscle and pressure when parking your vehicle
yes of course there's a mechanical clutch that engages if the computer fails... the Infiniti Q50 has steer by wire, and that includes a mechanical backup.. check CNET On Cars Ep. 41. Imagine if steer by wire fails with no backup.. total fail.
I don’t really miss hydraulic power steering systems. A good driver can make any car handle well, and a good engineer can make an EPAS system provide excellent feedback.
When electric component fails, the circuit to these motor/drivers shorts or remains open....... and happens without a warning. When a mechanical system fails, it starts failing slowly.....Suppose you are driving 100Mph and the driver circuit shorts down and continously supply current to steering motor and you car turn the steering left or right and then boom.
I guess mine is hydraulic then, the bad thing about hydraulic steering is that your steering wheel gets so hard to move when your the power steering pump fails. Sadly it had to happen to me in an SUV, gosh the thing is heavy x(
I want to learn and understand how to implement the steer by wire system. Kindly help me. How can i learn to seclect the steer motor and the controle device. Regards?
I drive a 2004 dodge ram 150 and my power steering only seems to work when im putting pressure on the accelerator with my foot, but when I take it off the steering wheel goes back to no assistance! So when in high revs it turns but with a loud whine and when Im decreasing in revs I lose power steering.
Wasn't really down the road a few years, infiniti released the direct adaptive steering a few months later. But that's beside the point, thank you for the video, always wanted to know how it worked.
My electronic power steering now became a 'PAWIS' steering (sweating behind the wheel or back to mechanical mode). How do we fix this? A friend told me to check the motor and replace the carbon brush, is this true? Help anyone...
Most cars with EPAS systems have a light feeling steering wheel. But some manufacturers do it well, and give some weight to the steering, to make it feel more natural.
after having driven all three kinds in over 6 cars noted, my number one con with electric is that you, completely, loose the "physical" connection to the road and the weight of your vehicle and you get the feel of a game console wheel controller. personally i tend to enjoy driving without power steering entirely. but given all the cons with hydraulic you still have the physical connection and feel the weight and force of your vehicle.
Hello I'm having a problem with my wife's 2009 Ford Escape. Electric steering no fluids. It's not under recall and should be. Upon engine start the steering wheel automatically binds making it hard to turn the steering wheel. This is a safety issue and needs to be recalled. My 2009 Ford Escape was Made in Kansas City Assembly Plant Job#2 program 2. The recalls are only for Kansas City Assembly Plant Job#1, year models 2008-2011. With this information I believe it is just to include my and other vehicles in this recall. Please share to get this done.
guys what sensors are used in EPS? I know torque sensor, vehicle speed sensor and steering angle sensor. Maybe some of you know more and can give me a link to website with detailed information about EPS? appreciated.
The problem is not the electronic components, they can be made to last and manufactures knows how to do it, mechanical components fails too, the fear of going full electric is with the software, and a car connected to internet is a risk because a hacker can control anything connected to it, using the cameras of the vehicle, sensor and yeap the motors and brakes can be controled wirelessly too.
Where are my bois without any power steering? On another note, is an electric pump on a hydraulic system a good idea? Does it prevent parasitic loss while still having proper feedback? I find that design choice interesting.
Drive by wire systems are great if you see a vehicle that gets you from point A to point B. If you see a vehicle as something to be driven, they take all the character out.
Not drive by wire, many cars are drive by wire and I find that drive by wire responds quicker than the physically connected gas pedal. But to each their own. Steer by wire is just definitely shit
a man was killed after his cruise control 'got stuck' www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-3968218/Terrified-driver-32-called-999-control-Skoda-sped-motorway-119mph-cruise-control-stuck-crashed-lorry.html
Usually, there are backups at backups put in place to prevent such issues. There are quite a few sensors that detect that something might be wrong and it kicks the backup in. The software is also intensively tested on the factories before releasing it on customer cars.
Be that as it may, I'd still trust a mechanical unit over something that goes to shit if the battery is dead. Case and point, a customer's car was brought in when their alternator took a shit. They stated that the steering was basically non-responsive and sloppy when that happened... on the freeway. The biggest pain is that the car had an electronic transmission too, so they couldn't even push it off the highway properly. Basically, a fancy paperweight.
MrMovieMan941 Well yes all functions in modern cars these days are software driven. Can be hacked. Have to install a backdoors or alternate chipset which could override the system.
@@iheeb3413 Internate Connection isn't only the case,where hacker comes into the picture. Physically access to the control unit, Physically tapping the communication chanel, spoofing & tempering the messages and many more ways are there for the hacking. 😉
Didn't the Toyota Prius have some software issue that locked up the electric steering? I remember a few cases where someone was turning right, but it got stuck because the software crashed or something.
chavitavb Glad to hear you were able to get an update. I wonder how many people may have been affected by that glitch. I think I'm going to stick with my 5-speed manual transmission. ;)
jcdfbdus Well, yes. I just said I'd stick with my manual because it is low-tech. As much as I like tech, I don't care so much about it in my car. I, like many, enjoy the "full-experience" you get from a manual.
My Ex's car had a loose battery connection and when she went over a bump she lost steering, typically when going around a left hand corner. I didn't believe her until I tried it. Nearly bloody killed me.
Electronics and particularly electric motors are prone to breaking. Most mass produced cars would have cheap systems for steering which probably wont last 1/4 of what a traditional hydraulic system would last. My 90s car has less sensors monitoring the whole car than an EPAS (EPOS more like it) system has monitoring the steering. If one small thing on one of these epas systems breaks, you need the whole system replaced costing $$$$s. Save $500 over 10 years? lol, yeah right. And that doesn't take into account that they are unsafe, if you lose power, any of the sensors or the motor cooks itself when you're driving or if you require quick input to avoid an obstacle - look up hyudai i30 moose test.
Mouse Mystery To me it isn't about the feel. The sole purpose of the handbrake/e-brake is when ALL else fails. With a classic e-brake, it doesn't matter if your brake line broke, if the battery is dead, or if the car is even on - it just works. Some could argue that it's just for parking, but automatics don't need an e-brake for parking. But whether you're driving stick or if you're on a steep hill, how does an electronic e-brake know how much force to apply? For safety reasons, I'll always avoid cars where brakes and steering are 100% electronic.
They were trialling electric brakes, electric water pumps and electric turbo fans (doesn't require direct exhaust connection) which me inherently suspicious of all. I prefer a direct mechanical backup in case power or electric anything goes haywire. I have always noticed sitting at traffic lights in idle, I turn steering wheel and it adds 200 rpm to engine output required. So when car right on stall point, and you use power steering, can stall at traffic lights. Had a old ford that would regularly do this until I got mechanic to increase idle speed.
I had an EPAS system go out many years back on a Ford Fusion. Got rid of it since it was a $1600 fix and just not worth the money. So they are mostly to repair than hydraulic power steering.
He says win win win win but what if your alternator goes out and your battery dies on the interstate the electric componets will not work so how will you stear
I have 1997 honda accord it was leaking power steering fluid bad I just took the power steering belt off boom manual steering dont have to worry about the pump going out the belt break or fluid I've been driving it like this for 5 years no problem yeah you have to put your shoulder into it at a dead stop just turning the wheel but it doesn't matter what speed your going even if just 1mph turns with ease.
I was about to purchase the new Accord until I found out Honda no longer makes the standard automatic transmission gearbox (4 cyl) and hydraulics power assisted steering like on the older Accord models. No EPAS and CVT for me :)
I don't feel comfortable with that. The future of steering not actually having a mechanical connection at all. I would still want to have the mechanical connection.
"The Steering Wheel won't have any mechanical connections. But that's down the road a few years, and that's another Car Tech 101." Oh and don't forget that it's alos a piece of software that can fail, causing a crash that will kill you.
My thing is that electronics can fail and it's important to have the steering wheel to be able to have a hard connection to the front tires so if all power goes out you still have a shot at living in the event your headed for say on coming traffic or a cliff, with a little muscle you can steer away from danger
I like the feel at low speeds in parking lots or in town driving but past a certain speed it feels a little twitchy. I think it would be much better if it turned off completely at highway speeds
Because mechanical engineering is less compact. More electronic based components means smaller parts which equates to weight reduction and more spatial availability. Less weight equals less gas mileage. More space means more room for other components. I'm sure those aren't the only reasons though. But really, you shouldn't think too old fashion just because you don't understand why new innovations are implemented. Also it helps to think more broadly than just the car. When mechanical parts are broken, it means there's something physically broken which creates more waste in the world. You have to throw away hunks of metal that end up in waste fields which harms the environment. If a software fails, nothing is physically broken. It's just a matter of reprogramming and re-calibrating the component. Nothing has to be thrown away (usually), and nothing has to be reproduced in factories just to replace your part. There's a lot of environmental regulations being put in place and electronic based components helps to abide by them. And right now, we need to be thinking about the environment more than ever because we've really done a horrible job taking care of it in retrospect.
Miles Wright It's not thinking old fashion, it's simply sticking with what as proven to be the more reliable and safe option. If steer-by-wire fails and there's not a redundant system, you have no steering, meanwhile if mechanical power steering fails, you can always muscle it. So until electrical engineers can get their systems foolproof, mechanical engineering is going to be the safest bet when it comes to automotives.
jcdfbdus Electric steering is used in aircraft technology, so I think it's been proven reliable already. Plus some cars have mechanical backup if the electronic fails.
That's a great idea to save some fuel gas mileage but all of those auto makers also need to make an elictric air conditioning compressor to save more money on fuel because the fuel prices are to high now these days plus that would also give little more power to the engine by getting rid of another belt on to car's engine. ..
All EPS I have driven have bad steering feedback. You don't feel the controlling centrifugal force or the terrain beneath. I like hydraulic. May be costlier cars have good feedback
Aircrafts fly by wire a long long time ago and nobody says anything. If current aircrafts don't do that way the extreme weight would be so ridiculous that they simply couldn't transport the amount of charge they can. Even with the wheel attached to the steering gear today if you lose hydraulic power (that you can) or electric assistance in the middle of a curve in the highway you'll die so it is more a psicological fear than other thing. Don't be a pussy and embrace the Future.
+AZR NSMX1 And look how often those systems on aircraft fail. People say "Flying is the safest form of transportation" but that doesn't take into account for numbers: How many planes are there and how many cars/trucks are there? Planes SEEM to fail less, but only because there's far fewer of them. (Edited a grammatical error to appease narcissistic nitpicking douche)
EvilJ069 Either your grasp of mathematics or of common sense or both are in a critical condition. Better take care of them before it's too late. It's for the "too fewer airplanes" comment.
Tuneer Chakraborty Oh no! You caught me making a grammatical error when I wrote a comment at 4AM 2 months ago! That OBVIOUSLY means you're smarter than I am for sure! Imbecile
EvilJ069 I wasn't talking about the grammar. This is sadder than I thought it was. Have a blast figuring it out. Or write another obnoxious comment, in which case I'll just tell you.
