"Carbine" Williams' Battle Rifle: The Winchester G30R

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The Winchester G30R is the final iteration of David Marshall Williams' work on a full power .30 caliber military rifle. The project began with a design by Ed Browning (John Browning's half brother) using a tilting bolt an annular gas piston, manufactured for US military trials by Colt. It moved to the Winchester company, which assigned Williams to the project when Browning died in 1939. Williams first replaced the annular gas piston with his gas tappet system, creating the G30M rifle. This performed poorly in trials, and the next iteration was the replacement of the tilting bolt with a Garand-type rotating bolt, creating the Winchester M2 rifle.
The US military was not interested in the M2 in .30-06, but thought the concept could be ideal for the Light Rifle trials then underway, and Winchester scaled it down to .30 carbine, and won the Light Rifle trials with it. That weapon would go on to become the M1 Carbine. Once it was in mass production, Winchester returned to the M2 design and improved it into this G30R. It was tested by the Marine Corps, but not adopted. The Canadian military also expressed an interest, but the US government opted to not allow any exports, and so Canada never tested it.
The US Army was quite satisfied with the M1 Garand, but suggested that this rifle might be made into a replacement for the BAR if it were redesigned a bit for greater sustained fire capacity. Winchester did so, creating the Winchester Automatic Rifle (WAR), which was on track for adoption until World War Two ended and immediate arms development became a much less important priority for the military.
Thanks to the Institute of Military Technology for allowing me to have access to this rifle so I can bring it to you! Check out the IMT at:
www.instmiltech...
If you enjoy Forgotten Weapons, check out its sister channel, InRangeTV! / inrangetvshow
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Опубликовано:

4 окт 2024

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Комментарии : 390

@Purpmaster 4 года назад

For being essentially a prototype, the machining and overall fit and finish are absolutely beautiful.

@jamesberry3230 9 месяцев назад

Winchester already had the perfect rifle m1907 in.351WSL , couple of minor modifications, a charging handle on the receiver side and gas delay blowback action

@SafetyProMalta 6 лет назад

That's a beautiful rifle.

@charlesinglin 6 лет назад

This design actually came back in the late '50's as the Winchester Light Military Rifle, which competed against the AR-15. It was scaled down for the .223/5.56mm cartridge. Nathaniel at TFBTV did a piece about it a while ago.

@charlesinglin 6 лет назад

www.thefirearmblog.com/blog/2017/02/15/firearm-showcase-winchester-lightweight-military-rifle-cody-firearms-museum-high-res-pics/

@robosoldier11 20 дней назад

old comment. But frankly I'd love to buy something like this. Maybe not in that caliber. But this winchester design in my opinion is something that seems incredibly wasteful not to try at least pose it to the civilian market to look at.

@carlinglin7289 20 дней назад

@@robosoldier11 My thoughts as well.

@robosoldier11 20 дней назад

@@carlinglin7289 I again am curious what made them not pursue just putting it into the general market. I think as me and you have indicated. Many people would’ve hoped onto this thing. Especially if it’s essentially a gun based on improvements derived from the garand.

@ozdavemcgee2079 6 лет назад

Interesting weapon. Im kinda surprised it wasnt 7.62 converted and put up as a trial against M14.

@vaclav_fejt 6 лет назад

I'm not. The M14 was entered only due to Springfield's "we basically already have the tooling, it will be cheaper than adopting the FAL or G3."

@kameronjones7139 6 лет назад

Václav Fejt that was a pretty good selling point honestly

@vaclav_fejt 6 лет назад

The best. It sold the rifle despite being completely wrong.

@kameronjones7139 6 лет назад

Václav Fejt leave it to the army to not actually look into the clames others make....

@Siencyns1989 6 лет назад

This is an educational channel, stop talking dirty.

@CadillacFleetwood68 2 года назад

I would say that of all the rifles Ian has reviewed, this is the one I would love to own a reproduction of the most. It's just an incredibly cool design and beautiful rifle.

@samhoot101 5 лет назад

Rewatching and just want to reiterate how beautiful this rifle is. Nothing against the Garand, its a beaut too, but this should have been our rifle. Such a cool piece.

@wraithwyvern528 5 лет назад

This thing would've been slick even in the civilian market today, I kinda wish this whole rifle system was more widely adopted even if by civilians.

@The007lord1 6 лет назад

BAR, Browning Automatic Rifle WAR, Winchester Automatic Rifle So did colt ever make a CAR?

@bigmal1690 6 лет назад

007 lord1 I wonder if the converted BAR mag still works in the BAR, it would be interesting to know if that rifle would have made it into service, they could have have some comparably with mags in the field?

@PureCountryof91 6 лет назад

Monitor its a colt made bar weapon

@jordansmith3721 5 лет назад

Yes lol CAR-15

@Hubert_Cumberdale_ 5 лет назад

WAR is just the best name for a gun ever.

@shawnr771 5 лет назад

General Motors made M16s.

@user-bn3zo3mh5v 6 лет назад

If there was ever an elegant looking gun with a big box magazine, this is it. Beautiful! Thank you Ian!

@Axemantitan 5 лет назад

It's strange that the Marine Corps wanted this 8.5 lb rifle lightened when the M1 Garand is 9.5 lbs.

@WALTERBROADDUS 5 лет назад

Why is that strange? The Garand just as a drill rifle I found to be heavier than it needed to be.

@WALTERBROADDUS 5 лет назад

@DH A lighter weapon is always desirable.

@-John-Doe- 5 лет назад

@@WALTERBROADDUS They turned down this 8.5lb rifle because it was _too heavy._ The Garand was 9.5 lbs.

@WALTERBROADDUS 5 лет назад

It's a war production issue. It's going to take time and cost money to build a new rifle.

@stephen9894 4 года назад

I know I'm late to the comments here but it's possible that going from 9.5 lbs to 8.5 lbs wasn't enough of an improvement to warrant all of the paperwork, money and hassle in adopting a new rifle. If it was around the 7 lb mark then that's a pretty big difference and could have been enough for them to go through the process of adopting a new rifle in early war time.

@Blade40688 6 лет назад

I am pretty sure you could start an oil company if you wiped that gun down.

@Zbyhonj 6 лет назад

...that's the finish ya dingus.

@blinkx1070 6 лет назад

Watch when Ian pulls the mag out, its all covered in oil

@zakk4321able 6 лет назад

Zbyhonj nah that's a lot of oil and grease bud yes it's a deep blue but still a lot of oil and grease

@panzerabwerkanone 6 лет назад

It's a museum piece not a fielded rifle. Layered in oil to prevent fingerprints while handling. I'm sure all museums with rare and unique firearms have a their way of preventing any deterioration of their exhibits.

@xmm-cf5eg 6 лет назад

You should see my AK, gotta prevent jams and wearing on the materials or the rifle due to friction somehow.

@andfranky8963 6 лет назад

The sound of that action says precision manufacturing. It sounds so smooth, probably the best sounding action I've heard.

@digschopper9321 3 года назад

Smoothly " snickety".

@stevotv6457 6 лет назад

This is a beautiful rifle. Seems about perfect to me in quality and operation. I really like this gun. Wished it would have made production.

@johnparrish9215 6 лет назад

Oh I wish they had built a few million of these.

@VIIthLegionEnjoyer 6 лет назад

John Parrish sort of like an FNAR, a rifle stocked box fed 30 cal but with a different gas system

@JimmySailor Год назад

1943 was just about when the M1C was showing how serious it’s teething problems would be. What if the USMC had ordered a couple thousand scoped G30R’s? That receiver looks like a rock solid location for a scope base and being equipped with mags already the rifle would be easily set up. Such a rifle could have been a fantastic combat sniper rifle.

@randywatson8347 6 лет назад

I can already imagine the feel of cycling the gun. Smooth, no wobble, keeps everything in place with nice amount of springtension.

@joefoam794 6 лет назад

I gotta ask, who dislikes these videos? They are educational, well produced and not politically motivated. They are simply historical in nature. Keep up the good work Ian, I'm not afraid to learn something. For you mouth breathers out there, simply don't go to this channel and you won't be 'triggered'.

@joefoam794 6 лет назад

+comsubpac You and I get that, and as an internet blogger Ian has to have some thick skin to brush the negative comments aside. I get the feeling the dislikes come from anti gun types with a lot of time on their hands trying to make a statement.

@haroldellis9721 6 лет назад

My best guess is mouth breathers who were looking for the Amazon link to guy the firearm featured.

@emirsuljagic5084 6 лет назад

Some could even be chalked up to accidents, like on touch screens I’ve accidentally disliked videos without realising or meant to like it but you miss it since it’s just a simple touch or swipe over with your finger.

@enriqued8401 6 лет назад

It may have ended up on their auto playlists, doing the thumbs down would keep it off.

@phileas007 6 лет назад

I've disliked it because of your comment, Joe

@Ashmoleon2006 6 лет назад

lets get this out on a tray, nice!

@LoneWolf051 6 лет назад

this has a pretty oily texture to it

@llamamanism 6 лет назад

we watch the same channels

@Michael-im1vc 4 года назад

Kinda oily, but a solid.... even satisfying texture

@n147258noah 4 года назад

It all crosses over...so we've got Steve, Ian...anyone else watch Nicholas Moran (Chieftain) too?

@srice8959 3 года назад

Carbine Williams is literally my favorite movie since I was a kid in the early 70’s

@ryanvargas4889 6 лет назад

I prefer original milsurp of course but this is the only rifle I would buy a reproduction of. Seeing as theirs just that one I know of so far and it’s priceless. Such a great gun, thank you Ian!

@johnoneil9188 6 лет назад

Man, you can really hear and feel how smoothly that gun operates.

@andrewwaterman9240 6 лет назад

I'm in awe of those old-timey machinists. Such beautiful work.

@louiswarmoth7354 5 лет назад

Yep. No computers involved...only skilled hands.

@stephensands3485 9 месяцев назад

Most impressive part about this rifle to me is the quality of the production. Everything is so beautifully machined and smooth and the fit and finish of the rifle is impressive. Reminds me of a very finely made 1911-style pistol (like a Korth) in terms of how every moving part seems buttery smooth and tightly fit.

@stevelemmen7048 Год назад

I wish it, or rifles like it were available in abundance on the open market.

@doorswhofan 8 месяцев назад

INCREDIBLE travesty this was never mass-produced. Would be a must-have for my collection.

@MadM0nte 5 лет назад

Upon seeing gun. "Wow, that kind of looks like an up-scaled M1 Carbine lol."

@Buzbikebklyn1 4 года назад

Exactly! It one ups the M1. It's a shame that it wasn't mass produced by Browning.

@MadM0nte 4 года назад

@@Buzbikebklyn1 Forgotten Weapons has convinced me that US ARMY Ordnance Corps should have been tried at Nuremberg with the Nazis.

@Spartan536 3 года назад

@@MadM0nte They had some brain dead moments, and even more to this day. Their reasoning for not liking magazine fed weapons was... 1. Magazines add cost, need it to be cheaper 2. BAR Magazines were notoriously weak, and this made the Army question reliability of magazine based weapons, but it really was just bad design and QC due to cost. 3. OuR SoLdIERs WiLL ShOOt tOO MuCH.... NO MaGazInEs, EVUR! The M4 replacement test that happened under Obama's era was marred by the requirement to have the same loading and operating characteristics as the M4/M6, there was going to be a replacement, the ADCOR Arms B.E.A.R was soundly beating everything else and Colt got pissed that their M4/M16 "upgrade" was tossed out in the 2nd round of testing, so COLT sued and when FN's product was losing to the ADCOR one, they also started legal threats, so 1/2 way through the final round the US Army said "NOPE, we are cancelling it".

@seabob337 Год назад

I just gotta remark on how exceptional it is that this gas tappet (sp?) system scaled just fine both down to .30 carbine and up to .50 bmg, and is conceptually not super far off from the DI in the AR15.

@billsmith5166 5 лет назад

Very nice. The machining on some of these weapons is so amazing,and it's also pretty nice looking.

@jeffcamp481 5 лет назад

That is a beautiful rifle! Thank you for all your work!

@istillhavetenfingers8150 6 лет назад

I like how every gun Ian mentions in his videos he can already say, "I have a video on that too."

@WetDoggo 6 лет назад

It's awesome that you do this. The quality of your videos definitely improved over the years.

@spartan7042 2 месяца назад

This looks like a very high quality weapon, beautiful

@anatolib.suvarov6621 6 лет назад

Ian; The unexplained milling, may have been an attempt at making the weapon system lighter, but it was determined that they could not safely do it, so abandoned that line of work, and went with the WAR line instead. SFC Bruce R. Gadbois

@t.versteeg3723 6 лет назад

I saw the movie about Williams' life with James Stewart once. Great movie!

@Easy-Eight 6 лет назад

Best lines from the move, "He got in a fight at school. Did he win? Oh, good."

@donlabrecque1663 6 лет назад

I've lived in Florida my whole life, but it's the first time I've heard of the institute of military technology. Thanks for enlightening me and visiting my part of the country. Hopefully we'll see more segments from this location.

@BigHarryBalzac 7 месяцев назад

That is one REALLY nice looking rifle. Something about the front of the handguard area makes me think of an old H&K, but I don't know why. I honestly can't say i know of one that looks anything like that.

@ccfmfg 5 лет назад

You should have mentioned the Carbine Williams Movie that Starred Jimmy Stewart.

@Bob.W. 5 лет назад

Thats why I clicked on this.

@neo66ghost 6 лет назад

I enjoy all your reviews it's a pleasure to learn about the mechanics that went into these prototypes and ideas!!! Keep up the good work!

@Arakal421 Год назад

This has got to be one of the most gorgeous rifles I've ever seen.

@tridentrex0576 4 года назад

Oh my... oh such a beautiful rifle. Oh I want one.

@mothershipq1973 6 лет назад

This looks like the love-child of a G43 and an M14

@PRACERZ 6 лет назад

Thank you so much for bringing this to my attention, love old semi autos and this one is DAM SWEET !👍

@jeffadams9807 8 месяцев назад

Have U Ever Tested The Russian SVT-40 ???

@PRACERZ 8 месяцев назад

@@jeffadams9807 my son and I both have SVT40s. All I can honestly say is WOWED. Incredible firearm. Imho

@coolperson1987654321 6 лет назад

Ian you should check out the experimental Thompsons...specifically the persuader and annihilator!

@cheesenoodles8316 Месяц назад

History on that table.

@psychosneighbor1509 3 года назад

That's a beautiful gun right there...

@retrocny5625 2 года назад

This is one of the most gorgeous rifles ever created, in my opinion.

@stephenj.mst3kfan836 5 лет назад

She is a Beautiful rifle! Too bad we can't buy a reproduction of it at least. 😥

@TheErr0x0000 6 лет назад

Beautiful gun. Might be my favorite so far!

@crabmansteve6844 Год назад

That rifle is absolutely stunning

@edgarjimenez8486 6 лет назад

This is the greatest carbine of all time. Nice way to wrap up the history of the G30 rifle.

@Scott079 6 лет назад

I'm hoping there's a shooting video of this rifle coming, it looks like a awesome rifle

@curtisdowling3773 4 года назад

Awesome rifle !! I want one !!

@jimh6763 3 года назад

Looks like a nicely finished, and designed rifle. You never really say why it wasnt adopted or produced?? Id buy one!!

@tonyktx44 6 лет назад

But, that's not a French rifle....

@edgarjimenez8486 6 лет назад

???

@exploatores 6 лет назад

it´s not the french weapon channel :)

@vaclav_fejt 6 лет назад

The longest specialised period was the Bergmann line.

@vettekid3326 6 лет назад

Thank god, I'm sick of all the French guns.

@dereks6636 6 лет назад

Tony King so

@timknapper6990 6 лет назад

Interesting that they made all that stuff captive.

@HustleMuscleGhias 6 лет назад

If the History channel was like it was years ago before the reality TV bug took hold, I think your community as a whole would petition for you to have your own show similar to the old "History of the Gun" series.

@warrenharrison9490 9 месяцев назад

This is a rifle that would be an awesome reproduction with a better magazine design. What a beauty.

@AdrenalineJunkieXL 6 лет назад

Hey Ian why don't you do a winchester video in the same way you did who is colt video? I know you said your busy but was just wondering if you were sort of cancelling that series or your just way too busy which I understand lol

@warmongerairsoft 6 лет назад

Anyone else listen to Ian say “there were only (blank) many EVER PRODUCED for the 1,000th time and think to yourself “Wow, he’s held more money (rare guns) in his hands than I’d make in 50 life times”. Then think about how you love Ian but envy him and therefore hate him on some level. Cause I do; frequently.

@daltongarrett7117 3 года назад

I'm a young semi hopeful man. I have time to make such money and opportunities.

@gooondie 6 лет назад

Very interesting video Ian! Your channel gets me through the morning before work everyday, thanks dude!

@joshmeads Год назад

This would have been great in Canadian service. We used the Lee Enfield, so a semi auto with 20 round box magazines would have been amazing! Probably would have saved Canadian lives.

@funkla65 3 года назад

Good looking design. Vs the M1, less jangling stuff hanging on the barrel, and with what is hanging on the barrel being farther from the muzzle, ought to increase accuracy potential. And, gas system is using hotter, higher pressure gas, so the system should accumulate carbon more slowly. Mass is more centralized, too, which should enhance handling.

@therrdon1841 3 года назад

With the G30R already in their inventory, why didn't Winchester compete in the trials that resulted in the M-14. With the tappet gas system proven in the M-1 carbine, it seems that a select fire fire control group would have guaranteed a win. converting from 30.06 to 7.62 is certainly a not issue.

@roanhielkema5714 5 лет назад

that's an absolutely gorgeous rifle.

@timbirch4999 6 лет назад

Ian, just FYI, it's a "script typeface", not "font". A font is the complete and entire description of EVERYTHING about a piece of text - the typeface, the height, the pitch, the leading, kerning, etc. etc. It's a common misuse of the term, and I blame Microsoft for changing the word "Typeface" to "Font" in their products.

@wkingston1248 6 лет назад

That gun smells of high-quality. It looks so clean and sleek.

@jubb1984 6 лет назад

Wow this was a beautiful rifle, looks so well made.

@acklan3 6 лет назад

Ian what is you opinion of the Winchester G30R vs the M14?

@keithdurose7057 7 месяцев назад

Regarding the sights. The folded peep sight is no doubt a battle sight. For those Oh crap! Moments. If it has a larger hole to look through. It may be for use in low light level situations like at dusk. Some FN SLR's in British service had two flip up rear sights. One is not adjustable for low light use. The other was for normal use out to 600m.

@PedroThePanda64 6 лет назад

This gun is the definition of eye candy.

@TheWhoamaters 2 года назад

"It didn't do well against the Garand, the Johnson, and as a control the 1903 Springfield" You're telling me, that the 1903 Springfield outperformed the G30M? At that point I'd just go back to the drawing board

@francisaje 6 лет назад

Really good looking rifle.

@rogerhwerner6997 4 года назад

That's one georgeous rifle!

@ianmacfarlane1241 4 года назад

Even without knowing anything about them, some firearms just look cool - this falls into the into the very cool category.

@johnparrish9215 6 лет назад

That is a very good looking rifle. I rather wish Winchester had of built a few thousand for civilian sales.

@jeffreymcfadden9403 6 лет назад

beautiful machine work.

@billsmith5166 4 года назад

That's gorgeous.

@g-dcomplex1609 2 года назад

definitely one of the best weapons ever designed

@johnm3907 6 лет назад

Thats a nice looking gun, nice soft lines to it.

@swillm3ister 6 лет назад

What a beautiful rifle.

@Mrgunsngear 6 лет назад

great info

@alonzahanks1182 Год назад

The thing is the pitors with piston recoil is the same as a bolt action The Garand and M14 Gas systems are smooth operators with a quarter of the recoil

@andrewbenoit5208 2 месяца назад

I feel like there is a massive potential for making oddball military reproduction firearms like this and many others. The milsurp market would go crazy.

@docback63 6 лет назад

When you looked right down at the bolt from above in the video, and pulled back the bolt slightly , etc...it looks just like an M-1 Carbine.

@WALTERBROADDUS 5 лет назад

It's the same action in .30-06.

@edwardanenberg349 4 года назад

Elegant strong looking action 👍

@Jabberwockybird 3 года назад

I can imagine someone who's used to an M1 Garand accidentally dropping the magazine while thinking they're putting it on safe

@cygnus7593 6 лет назад

To remove complete action from stock: Grasp the front end of the barrel with the left hand holding the grip of the stock firmly with the right. Lift the barrel up in an arc, it pivoting on the upper takedown plate at the rear end of the reciever until it comes clear of the stock. Then lift out and foreward. www.forgottenweapons.com/winchester-224-e2-manual The E2 Lightweight Military Rifle is clearly based on the G30R. The earlier M1 carbine and the later E2 Lightweight Military Rifle both disassemble in similar ways, so it would be confusing for them to change it for just this model. Edit: Earlier in the steps for disassembly the manual state that the hammer should be cocked and the safety on. Might be relevant to disassembly.

@coreyg7575 6 лет назад

gee i wonder if ian tried this method that you have linked from his own website...

@dwb345 6 лет назад

This is a seriously nice rifle, thanks for the video

@shadowfoxcorp 6 лет назад

That rifle is magnificent!

@Pcm979 6 лет назад

I was just thinking the other day about how, by the end of this series, there's pretty much nothing left of Ed Browning's original design. His brother's name got the project started, but that's about all.

@mikedertouzos908 5 лет назад

That rifle is beautiful

@stephennelson4954 6 лет назад

Calling it now this rifle is going to appear in this year's battlefield.

@himlowodinmire1333 6 лет назад

Thanks for the early morning upload :)

@davidwallace5738 6 лет назад

Great video and info. Thanks buddy !

@daltonmann4916 4 года назад

that is a sweet looking rifle!

@armynurseboy 5 лет назад

So essentially the G30R is an M1 carbine scaled back up to .30-06?

@ryanspence5831 4 года назад

No. The .30 carbine version and the G30R were both derived from the Winchester M2.

@jeanvaljean341 5 лет назад

Who owns the rights to this rifle? Could it be reproduced?

@wesleytownsend8214 Год назад

I wish someone could have answered this question. It was a fantastic question and by reading other comments, obviously other folks are likewise interested. I wish you all the very best!

@magadude9131 5 лет назад

That's one sweet rifle !!

@ElMarko6994 3 года назад

Ole carbine was my granny’s first cousin, lol my dad said he always called him uncle carbine because he thought that was his real name

@davidcruz8667 3 года назад

I got tired of browsing through the comments, so perhaps my question has been answered already, but did you or anybody else ever do a piece which decyphers and explains full disassembly of this rifle? I myself own a very accurate and modern M1A, I love this rifle and I would like to see how it compares to the one in your review. I'm a retired Marine, always been proud of my marksmanship training and skills.