.....the most important switch is the switch directly in front of the streamer. Here OCXO with LPS (no PLCs may be operated directly on the system.) If there is some distance, a second switch can be cascaded, if possible with an SFP fiber optic connection as galvanic isolation. I then connected all the other devices in the house to the third switch so as not to have any interference in the audio chain. If you then use them all as OCXO, then you have premium sound and picture if you also treat the modem or router to an LPS. Cheers Mike
Just got a second Cisco 2960 and after its frozen travels, settled in with a couple of meters SFP fiber run in a high end tube monoblock system. Amazing improvement. Astonishing. (Tried an old beat up Cat. 5e cable to streamer but the short one footer Cat. 8 killed it in performance easily.) Oh and tomorrow a Meraki 220 arrives. Have an LPS available for Cisco but let's not talk about that or upgrades right now. The Meraki's POE power supply is likely headed to slaughter. 🤣 Thank you Mike!! Incredible kick for a high end system. (My tube amps use no capacitors so probably eats all this up.) YMMV.
@@headquarteraudio5388 - The Meraki just arrived in from the tundra. Not even thawed out but, oh heavens. my goodness. Yes, again, even better. Mike you're doing some great work here. Kind thanks, again from America.
The Meraki made everything so clean...clear..separation is crazy...This addition really makes bad recordings heard...lmao...thanx for suggesting this one!! It even sounds incredible using bluetooth from my laptop !!!
Love your enthusiasm Mike. You are an excellent sound engineer 🙂 I am soon getting a streamer and I'm interested in this switch rig you are suggesting here.
To me that's a ground loop issue at a larger scale, maybe related to using fully shielded ethernet cable grounding the entire house together. If you want to be 100% isolated from the network, use fiber or wifi, maybe a small ethernet isolator could work just fine. That has nothing to do with the equipment/switch brand/model used.
Thanks for the info. This is what I did: Motorola modem via ethernet to Alienware router via ethernet to two stock Cisco Meraki connected via fiber optic to each other .Meraki A is the dirty side and Meraki B is the clean side feeding One Apple TV and one Mytek Streamer. Everything just worked when connected and SQ increased noticeably. The modem, router and Meraki are plugged into a tripp-lite isobar. Very happy now but would like to know what linear power supply I can use to feed the Motorola modem which is 12Volts, 1.5 Amps. The fiber modules (2) was a 1000Base-SX Fibre SFP Module 850nm GBIC transceiver
For us mere mortals that do not have $500+ for a network switch, get this one... NETGEAR 8-Port Gigabit Ethernet Plus Switch (GS108Ev3) It is still blowing me away. And if you like Bass... OMG! This switch in my system, cleaned up so much crap out of the stream that it is not even funny. Stuff I never knew was there. Mike is a straight shooter, he knows his stuff. Just trying to save us guys that want to experience the HQ Audio sound a taste, for $42... ;-)
Hi, for sure, that was my key to upgrade even more... a very good solution, but even better with a 12v ( check the voltage ) LPS. In Germany everyone used a Fritzbox, so u can use a LPS from audiophonics with 2x 12v out for both devices. And you get rid of 2x cheap sps, very important... have fun. Watch fo LHYr SW10 with OCXO and clock out.. maybe cascaded 😉 ... a dream... cheers Mike
Very helpful video. Are you using the Cisco WS-C2960G-8TC-L, 7 Port model? Multimode or single mode fibre? Is difficult to setup, to cascade do you simply plug in the fibre SFP and connect the fibre? Any commands necessary or just plug cables into the ports and that is it? Really appreciate your reply. Thank you.
Hi, please watch my other videos. CISCO Meraki tuned by Audiophool.nl is the best way. Single mode , watch my SFP video. Factory reset and Ciscos work as standard switch..plug and play cheers Mike
I'm a little confused. Before the "Double Cisco"...Did you have a ethernet cable coming from netgear into the Cisco? BTW... I believe LWL cable is the same as fiber optic cable here in the states :)
Hi, if you use 2x Cisco, no Netgear in use... but with first Cisco use all pc TV and more ...and with second maybe with ocxo only for use for audio..cheers Mike
@@headquarteraudio5388 I was looking linear power supplies. But I have a bit of a dilemma. Im using a wifi mesh. The wifi mesh devices only have 2 ports. One port is used to connect to the router. I do have a Cisco...which is not needed at the moment. So currently, I have Ethernet cable from router to wifi mesh router. I was going to get a linear power supply for the 1st wifi mesh unit. But when I get things sorted out for the 2nd wiifi mesh unit..to where I can direct connect to it...I will need to use the switch. In that case...the Ethernet cable for my streaming will have to go into the Cisco(it's currently plugged directly into the main mesh unit). Where does the linear power supply matter most in this case. At the router, main wifi mesh unit to which is supplying everything, or Cisco?
I've got to ask, why use a cascaded switch instead of just running fibre to direct to the streamer. You can use an SFP at the switch end and a media converter at the other end. Then there no need for a cascaded switch at all.
Hi, if you use a converter with sps, you will loose all your benfefit and if it has no ocxo, it will sound even more bad.. watch for a dirty side and clean side Network for audio swich with ocxo..not many servers have SFP in...
@@headquarteraudio5388 has it been tested or is this an assumption? Can also have a media converter at both ends, the hardware isn't complicated or expensive. I now understand whats proposed, basically filtering of the digital stream by the device closest to the DAC. What this suggests though is the filtering provided at the DAC is insufficient. Its like putting a water filter at the fridge to clean the water that's delivered there, even if you have a filter inside the fridge anyway. If I understand whats going on here, information is transmitted using PAM modulation which will result in information extracted from the stream at a certain frequency (points in time) and then determined to be a one or zero. The suggestion is that the one or zero will be more perfect if filtering of some sort is used for the digital stream. This is then passed to the streamer DAC which using its own clocks and buffers does the same thing again with the data which is somehow made more perfect at the cascaded switch. And this is what influences the sound created by the DAC. However the switch does not modify traffic, it just passes it through ensuring it gets to the right location. Or it shouldn't anyway. I feel that your testing should also include a fibre drop from the router with no cascaded switch. It could then be plugged into a cascaded switch which should then provide an audible improvement. Additionally testing should probably use a known data source from inside the LAN such as ripped tracks from a CD to ensure you actually do have the same source each time you test. Playing the same track from the internet does not means its going to be the same each time its served owing to the way music is encoded and streamed from the source end. This is something that's been discussed elsewhere at length and examination of the streamed source file has demonstrated this is the case and that could account for differences perceived in listening tests. Especially with high res streaming. I'm not trying to be argumentative, just trying to reconcile my understanding of networking with the notion that a random switch can make any sort of tangible audible difference.
@@headquarteraudio5388Thanks for the reply. I’m thinking of buying a 2960 switch and later a second and connecting them with fibre. Seems like a good value option. I will then do linear power supplies and clock upgrades. I like the lhy but they cost quite a lot
Really nice video. Was wondering why if I have a optical connection between streamer and switch why would I need a better switch? Doesn't the fiber optic connection illuminate noise and solve the problems? For your info I'm connecting to A lumin X-1 streamer dac. Thanks
Hi, because of the better clock ( ocxo) in the switch with very good LPS, sounds much better! As close as possible to the streamer and then use a very good network cable. Cheers Mike
Hi Mike, so you used 2 cisco catalyst 2960G switches after your router? And afterthat it went to your music server? Or music server first then the 2 cisco 2960? Thanks!
Hi, I'll describe the way to you, of course it also depends on your distances. My path is like this and is a gigantic sound advance: Router -RJ45 to Cisco 2960-LWL to Cisco2960-RJ45 (30m) to Cisco Meraki 220 (tuned) - RJ45 (Best one you have) to Streamer Cheers Mike
@@headquarteraudio5388 thanks so much Mike for your reply! :)) this really improved the sound quality. Do you think 2 units of 2960 is enough? Or still needs the Meraki? Thanks!
@@GH-zs8eq Hi, since the devices are now inexpensive, I recommend that you continue with the Meraki. But only you can decide for yourself. I can only say for myself that with the Meraki, shortly before the streamer, there was another clear improvement in sound ( with silver / gold RJ45 by me ) But also only in the tuned version, you can find a lot of information on this on the Internet. I upgraded the internal power (special à la HEADquarter Audio) and removed a power supply. An OCXO clock will be added later. Or you can then buy this instead: ediscreation.com/product/silent-switch-ocxo/ cheers Mike
Moin .So kurze Info hatte ja berichtet das ich mit kleinen Investitionen mein Netzwerk optimieren konnte. Zu ifi ja das neue klingt noch besser .Hier ja nur übergang bis lineare Netzteile da. Aber nach Monaten immer wieder anrufen bei Vodafone bekomme ich die Fritz 6660 . Werde dann berichten was da wieder geht .So geht Netzteil Tausch auch einfacher 😎
It’s a very complicated way of telling that basically the galvanic separation of the ethernet from the router to the streamer helps a lot in the sound. And yes, it does!! Check out Uptone Audio Ethernet Regen and Uptone Audio USB Regen - both are amazing improvements too! ☺️
Hi, please watch my later videos. OCXO is more important, I think Etheregen has external clock in, if you use LHY OCK 1 or 2 you will reach top level cheers Mike
@@Jagman5 Hi, no, i have 2x Meraki with OCXO/LPS by Audiophool via SFP...new things happen, i will use a new switch with external clock in soon and have a very good clock now :) cheers Mike
Moin so gestern nach einer Woche Einspielzeit mit Hochwertigen Netzteil . Sensationell...Wirkung bei mir ist unglaublich. Bild Gewinn war sofort sichtbar . Auch endlich ich sag mal die metalischen Stimmen und blassen höhen waren schnell schnee von Gestern.Aber wie immer abwarten . Gesagt getan gestern grosser vergleich Musik ...Film ...Netflix..und zum schluss noch klassik . Und das war ein Gänsehaut erlebniss . Star Wars 24 Bit dts . Ja ich hab hobby Musik und Film . Deswegen ja viele probleme alles auf hohes Musikalisches erlebniss zu bringen . Fazit es müssen alle bei Pack Netzteile wenn geht ersetzt werden . Netzwerk Cat 8 + Supra. Dann geht neue Welt Stream und alte Welt CD...Stereo und 7.1 😎🏁🎼🎶🎵🔊🔊🔊🔊🔊🔊🔊🔊
Be aware that when i bought mine Cisco catalyst 2960G series it is fan cooled, its no fun listening to fan. Thanks to a computer knowledge work friend we skipped the fan and replaced with a aluminum heat sink glued with thermal glue. I also made a hole in the case for the heat to escape. Many thanks Mike for this information
@@headquarteraudio5388 I’m thinking to make some wood or copper washers for under the boards.. In the Netherlands we call them ‘revet’, that’s even shorter by name haha
Hola, un dispositivo que distribuye señales Ethernet (RJ45), aquí el Cisco 220, aún mejor con el reloj OCXO de www.audiophool.nl, vea también videos más nuevos... saludos Mike Hi, a device that distributes Ethernet signals (RJ45), here the Cisco 220, even better with OCXO clock from www.audiophool.nl please also see newer videos...cheers Mike
Moin eins noch . Hab heute aus Neugier noch mal die Phase vom Vodafone Router ermittelt war wie ich Ahnte falsch in meiner Leiste da es sonst nicht Passte. ..deshalb immer die Phase aller Geräte Messen. Ich hab n Detector von MFE. Wir wissen ja das die billig Netzteile den Klang negativ beeinflussen . Schlimmer wird s dann zusätzlich wenn nicht alle Phasen richtig angeschlossen werden!!!
@@headquarteraudio5388 Hab jetzt über eine Woche meine Fritz Box...jetzt hat se noch mehr Ruhe und Klarheit. Nächstes Ziel Netzteil .Und verschiedene fein Einstellungen was genau schreib ich dann. Aber vielleicht da deine Einstellungen online vorstellen ein Punkt hardwarebeschleunigung aus Eco 100 mbit🎶🎶🎶🎶
@@mihanosaryev9145 Hi, I recommend you to use the Merki 220 8. Once reset, you can use it without any programming or license. Pay attention to Cisco compatible modules / single mode with not too high performance. But maybe there are a few connoisseurs here who can be a bit more specific, I'm not a network freak .. :) Cheers Mike
Switches do not have sound characteristics nor can it differentiate the type of data that passes through it. End of story. Confirmation bias is a powerful thing.
Hi, not everyone wants to spend 950€ /1800€/2000 without LPS for a switch. I want to show a way for much better SQ in a cheap way directly, maybe later with an OCXO...cheers Mike
Moin ich komme auch langsam vorran. Stand der Dinge....LWL konvertor mit ifi Netzteilen optimiert . Jetzt schon mal Cat 8.2 Supra vom Router. Und 1 x zum UHD . Gewinn im Ton ja 70 % zu vorher direkt mit günstig Cat 8 . Next Step wenn endlich lieferbar Fritzbox. Ende des Jahres dann endlich Linear Netzteil . Fazit auch von mir Standart Kabel und Netzteile gehören in keine Anlage mit Anspruch auf Musik 👍👍weiter so leite deine Videos immer weiter an Kollegen die mehrere tausend Euro in Streaming Geräte investiert haben und das war's....😢
Mein Senf bzgl ifi Netzteile: das schwarze um 50€ mag besser als viele Beipacknetzteile sein, sauber ist es noch nicht wirklich. Die 100€ Version klingt da schon ganz anders, also viel besser (bei mir am router wenn er direkt den streamer bedient: um Welten besser als das schwarze, wenn auch ohne switch zwischen router u streamer lange nicht gut genug). Und da muss man mMn zwischen Performance auf DC Seite (Sauberkeit u Schnelligkeit) und auf AC Seite unterscheiden: letztere ist wohl durch klassische Linearnetzteile am wenigsten durch Rückstreuung beeinflusst, das schwarze ifi Netzteil ist diesbezüglich nicht gut und beeinflusst eine HiFi Anlage die am gleichen Pfad hängt deutlich hörbar (Härten im Hochton, .. evtl DC Offset?), und das hellgraue 100€ ifi Netzteil ist da schon wesentlich besser (wenig Härte im Hochton, allerdings scheint es den Bass zurück zu nehmen..). Ifi‘s DC Filter (100€ hilft) dem schwarzen ifi netzteil klarerweise auf der DC Seite (gut hörbar bspw am router), hilft klarerweise garnicht gegen den Mist auf der AC Seite. Wenn man also router und switches betreiben möchte die nicht im gleichen Kreis wie die Hifi Anlage hängen, dann erscheinen mir die teureren ifi Netzteile nicht verkehrt zu sein.
You obviously don't understand how TCP and Internet works. The quality only depend on the DAC, not on anything before the DAC, like modem, router and switches!!! When streaming it is the clock in the DAC who is the master clock and it is not depending at all of the incoming stream!
And you obviously haven't tried it yet, but are stuck in your preconceived opinion. Hit yourself over the head with a stick, don't comment until you've tried something, then you can have a say. And don't always believe the people who tell you that something can't be that way... cheers Mike
Mike, I greatly appreciate your efforts and explanations. Added a Cisco and amazed. I have very sensitive tube monoblocks and a WiiM Pro with LPS. A whole other level. Adding another Cisco. One day maybe a Meraki. 🫡 Kind thanks again for the roadmap!
@@headquarteraudio5388 "And you obviously haven't tried it yet, but are stuck in your preconceived opinion. " leifAndersson ist totally right - that is not question of preconceived opinion - it is a simple technical fact. TCP/IP does not guarantee a constant data rate - it even can not ensure that the packets arrive in correct order. So each streamer or each DAC which gets data transported using TCP/IP has (and must have) a data buffer which allows to reorder packets and adjust the data rate before it flows in the digital analog converter. In nearly every case the data is also encrypted and loosless compressed - so the received packages had to processed first. All this happens using the clock in the streamer itself - which is fully independent of the clock used by switches. Streaming is like playing the piano from sheet music where each sheet is send by letter post. It might happen that some letters arrive a little bit or even in the wrong order. Sometimes a letter get even lost. But after the first 20 letters arrived you can start playing as long as the post delivers more letters per minute that you need to play one minute. The playing is NOT based on the time the letters are arriving but by the time they have to be played
Moin mein Fritz Router ist da. Und erste Eindrücke ja mehr hifi Höhen sanfter Stimmen lösen sich weiter vom Lautsprecher und mehr Bühne ...jetzt heist es Sparen auf hochwertiges Netzteil . Also wer Vofafone kunde ist die 6660 gibs jetzt. Die aber eher wie bei mir nur für Laan topp. Wer ohne W Laan nich leben kann. Kauft die 7490 das Optimiren wird uns ja im Video gezeigt. Tut es . Ich konnte ja schon mit Supra 8.2 und einstieg ifi deutliche Gewinne erzielen . Tipp wenn geht Netzteile der Streaming Geräte im gleichen Stromkreis . Und eigene Leisten . Stromkabel einstieg auch Supra...dann wird's wieder Musik 🎶🎶🎶🎶🎶🎶🎵🎵😍😎
@@headquarteraudio5388 Meine Erfahrung bei Stromkabel aufwerten .Möglichst bei einem Hersteller bleiben . So ist Timming und Bass Performence noch mehr auf n Punkt . Stormzufuhr verändert ja wenn gut gemacht durch Senkung der Kapazität die zeitliche Wiedergabe .Wir merken ja schon um 5 My sekunden wenn sich etwas verändert 🎶🎶🎶🎶🎶
So einen Müll, sowohl aus physikalisch-technischer als auch aus ortographischer Sicht, habe ich schon lange nicht mehr lesen müssen. Da gewinnt Herrn Eders Zitat wieder an Bedeutung: "Es muaß a blede gem, ned, oba es wern oiwei mehra"
