Catamaran vs. Monohull | The controversy of the 1988 Americas Cup 

The Stars&Stripes sailed from Huatulco, Oaxaca Mex. to the San Diego yacht club in a 19 day/night epic open sea madcap folly of a venture. Captained by cat owner Victor Tapia. Upper 10' of hardsail wing demasted in rough seas, charts blown overboard, subsequent crewmember following charts to save them, early GPS Magellan gobbling up AA batteries, averted whale collisions and sundry misadventures all unable to thwart a truly majestic vessel. 8 lives and heartfelt thanks are owed to it's designers. The Kiwi race was little more than a sideshow bagatelle and 1% pissing match. 'The Cat Came Back' by the grace and unassuming true heroism of a Mexico City car mechanic employed as the Stars&Stripes boat manager.

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So exciting that I hadn't watched it since Fremantle in 85/86. Just a bunch of foreigners on other countries boats these days.

But who said they could use Catamarans ???

@@frankesposito2182 the kiwis tried to change the type of boats being raced, and the format. The USA outsmarted them in court, as they trying to cheat. A radical new design is still a new design, and kiwis opened that can of worms. Crying about being outsmarted sounds pretty sad.

@@kailaniandi Kiwis operated completely within the rules of the America's Cup, they were permitted to challenge at any time with any single mast designed boat no longer than 90 feet. Sand Diego Yacht Club was arrogant, knowing full well the Kiwis were preparing a challenge and what it was going to be, but despite the Kiwis attempts to meet with them, Connor and his fat mates refused meetings including when the Kiwis visited the club in person. This behaviour was typical of Connors and some in the US yachting world who for reasons only known to them thought they were the owners of the cup and could do as they please rather than follow the terms set out clearly in the Dead.. Australia 2 and Alan Bond had similar issues when they won it in '87. .. They also thought they could bully little old NZ and send them away to race at a time of their choosing in 3 or 4 years. But that's not the conditions of the dead, and NZ had geared everything up they weren't about to mothball the boat and disband their team and efforts, loose all their money just to restart all over again in 3 or 4 years time - that's totally unrealistic, could very well bankrupt people and leave many without jobs etc etc. So despite the efforts of Kiwis to try and meet to discuss the terms of the challenge in a gentlemanly way as has been done for 150 years prior, they never met leaving no choice but to issue the formal challenge according to the dead. It wasn't a surprise, it's not like NZ was hiding on Mars or the Dark side of the moon and suddenly popped out of the shadows. The US knew exactly what they were doing, trialling , designing and wanting to talk about. Following the challenge which the dead says the defenders must accept and then negotiate by mutual agreement the final design and event details (again the Kiwis gave US plenty of time to do this with them informally prior to issuing the challenge) the US refused to accept the challenge and still would not meet to discuss the design and event details. Refusing under the dead meant the trophy went to the challenger, but they wouldn't hand over the trophy either, NZ had no choice but to take it to court and either be awarded the trophy or force Connor to race. The US then designed a catamaran, because of a loop hole and the Kiwis protested that the dead specifically says a 'match race' of mutually agreed designs.. A catamaran vs a mon-hull does not represent a 'match race' and nor did they mutually agree. the court refused to rule and instead told them to race and sort it out afterwards, which is what they did.. So for the first time in 150 years a match race was not conducted and a multi-hulled boat was raced. Not very sporting considering NZ tried to sort it all out beforehand. Connor and his team then carried on like the arrogant wankers they are , so bad that their own country turned on them... they showed no humility, they lied , they were unprofessional and unsporting.... and you watched that video, you reckon the Kiwis cheated and you're happy and proud of the way the US and Connor acted ... you're on your lonesome there my man... not even you're own countryman agree with you ... just fat Denis and his mates at that moment in time agree with you. They manipulated a loop hole with regard to mulit-hulls that weren't even thought of or invented at the time the dead was written .. Why didn't the talk to the Kiwis beforehand, design their own mono-hull and race them? .... No one will forget what they did and how they carried on ... Even fat Dennis is ashamed of his antics and has since apologised ....

This documentary glosses over that fact. Most of the problems with the 1988 challenge stems from the situation where while there were rules, there were a lot of unwritten "gentlemens' agreements". One of those was that teams were given several years to design and build a boat especially since Fay wanted a different class of boat (27m vs 12m) as it had been like 50 years since the cup had been raced with something other than 12m boats. It downplayed that Fay wanted to exploit a loophole in the rules to get a cheap win. So the US also used a loophole. It was not written the boats had to be the same or how many hulls a boat could have.

Agreed. Both sides had their faults.

But the cup could be challenged for at any time.

@@ThatSB A challenge can be lodged at anytime. However is up to the cup holder to set the racing protocols. It was the Kiwi's fault for forcing their protocol when it wasnt theirs to make.

@@FastForwardSailing I was asked to be on board! Stupidly I declined saying that there was no money, even wages , to be part of AC! I have 20/20 vision looking back.

@@rhysnolan7458 Well done for being in a position where they'd take you. Was it New Zealand or USA?

Please - any ship that isn't square rigged isn't a ship at all!

Sail GP exists becauase of the advancements in development by AC. AC's fun stuff. SGP is spectacular sailing.

When you challenge someone to a duel the challenged gets to pick the weapons. Sorry Michael you picked a fight and got out played 😂😂😂😂

Perfectly stated

GP is not match racing.

The four days of LV preliminary regatta of last week was better sailing than the last four years of SailGP

Did the defenders not know they were coming? Was it not a decision by the defenders to ignore the challenge and hope it went away?

Indeed.

Indeed, though I find it interesting to see the story from from the challengers perspective lol A classic pot calling the kettle black (-8

@@randbarrett8706 The problem with the challenge was it gave the defenders only 1 year to design and build not only a new boat but a new class of boat (27m) that the challenger already built. It was a ridiculous challenge. For the past 50 years, 12m boats were used. If Fay had issued a challenge and stayed in 12m, there would have been grumbles but that would have been doable. Or if Fay had given the US 4 years to build a 27m boat, that would have been sporting. Fay was right that nothing in the rules said that the boat had to be 12m or how much time the defender could be given. So the US pulled a reverse Uno and used catamarans as nothing in the rules said the boat had to be single hull. Personally I view Fay's desperation to win the cup back as exploiting loopholes to win rather than a fair match.

Damn that's pretty sick not gonna lie. At least the hull is still on display instead of rotting away somewhere.

I hate how they took the rig off. When I first moved to nz when I was 6 we often visited KZ1 with her rig on multiple times and its a nostalgic memory I have

Time to scrap KZ1. We've all moved on.

got greedy

@vibratingstring Not sure what your point is; 12 Meters suck? They do not. A refutation point by point: (1) By 1988 or so when Fay was wreaking havoc, the Newport twelves had been relegated to charter boat racing of a rather low caliber, with charter guests as crew. No new twelve meter has been built since 1986, so the class has been severely diminished since its heyday. Blaming Fay is a reasonable proposition. (2) Though quite a bit smaller than their J boat predecessors, twelves are rather big and heavy, and campaigning one has always been a multi-million-dollar proposition. Calling them small and obsolete is a non sequitur. (3) They were always cutting edge. The Cup races 1958-1987 demonstrated the best (professional) sailors sailing the best designs available at the time. (4) Same point as before. Twelves were expensive to design, man, and sail. Lack of adequate funding sank many a campaign. The 12-meter class was a reasonable, prudent and highly successful choice given money constraints, yet they were large enough, graceful and picturesque enough to capture the hearts of many generations of sailors. Their demise as a Cup boat is severely lamented by many of us, like me, who sailed aboard them. PS Did you forget to duck when Nefertiti's gybed? I'm sure Ted is sorry.

I am so glad they are gone

Why? As fascinating as it was to come from boats in the 25-35 foot range to sail the 12M Rs, they were heavy to sail, not very responsive and because of the sheer mass and slow acceleration they put a lot of pressure on the rigging. The 12M R's had missed the whole development that people like Bruce Farr/Paul Withing/Laurie Davidson and more were behind of light fast surfing boats. While I did participate in one run where we were probably going at least 25 knots+ it was not made for that and parts kept breaking.

@@dap777754 By the 1980'ties they were definitely not the cutting edge but old-fashioned designs with massive limitations. The fact that the New York Yacht had the rules that everything down to the materials used for the sails... had to be from the challenger country had the competition skewed for years - it was such bad sportsmanship. 12MR were definitely not modern yachts with the keels like they had been done 50 years earlier, and the hull shapes being pretty old as well.

Exactly. It was an appropriate response to an inappropriate challenge.

Well said. As a young sailor, I lost interest in the cup after this race. It became a bickering old men competition. Who wants to see that?

Más radical un catamarán? Ya estaba inventado, simplemente eligieron un barco que ganaba a un monocasco. Eso no es un diseño radical

America had it absolutely rigged in their favour for years. Suck it up

Found the foolishly fragile american😂

How so, Ross?

Is it fair to pick a fight, then complain when you lose? Fairest fighter wins. Can't change the rule,and win!

@@robert-fz3ku you are right nz should have waited. or at least at the bare minimum challenged in the well established 12meter rules. they threw the rule book out and expected USA to follow suit and design a build a whole new 90+ foot boat in a mater of months. what a pile of bull.

It's a bit more complicated than that. In sailing you gave boat categories and it's not all about radically new design etc.

Yes and no. There have to be some definitions, otherwise theyd make a jet powered "sail" boat and finish the race in a quarter hour. That being said, what the rules should be is arbitrary and subjective. I love catamarans, so i have no problem with them being used in races. But they are also fundamentally superior to monohulls and matching them together is like having men and women compete in sports.

What was wrong with the IACC boats?

I love watching the J Boats. Seeing two of them heeled over on opposite tacks bearing down on each other is beauty, speed and courage all wrapped up in one package.

Are you mixing two different races/boats in your statement? The original race around the Isle of Wight, was generously handed to the Americans in good sportsmanship, since they failed to round a marker buoy correctly. The NYYC showed their lack of class over the next decades & denis connor continued that tradition. Thankfully Australia II broke them both.

Thank you. Glad to hear you like them 😊

While the SDYC could have agreed to a similar boat, building a brand new boat class in less than 1 year's time was difficult if not impossible. 12m boats had been used for the past 50 years at that point. That soured the challenge and the US response. From my perspective, Fay stacked his challenge with conditions so that he could not lose. It would be like me challenging someone to a marathon tomorrow and in another country where I have been in that country training for months. Sure my challenger could technically meet the conditions but him/her not liking or agreeing to such terms and rejecting it is hardly surprising.

Don't forget that the USA tried to have that keel declared illegal. So they were not in favour of innovation at that time. Of course now the boats used are unrecognisably different.

theres a huge difference between a winged keel on a 12m yacht and whatever the he11 kz1 was. and they wanted a race in less then a year? the cat was supposed to be a slap on the wrist so they could get back to 12m rules for 1992. a warning of what americas cup would become if they ditched the 12m rules.... then iacc ditched 12m rules... whops.

@vibratingstring That ended in 1983 when Australia II beat Dennis Connor and Liberty and took the Cup to Perth. The wing keel was a technical innovation within the class rules and I always thought the Aussies beat the defender fair and square. Yeah the NYYC had established the format with 12-meter class boats from '58 on but they were no longer dictating the rules. Fay's challenge with the big boat was unsporting in that he tried to exploit loopholes in the Deed of Gift to his advantage, technically legal but nevertheless unfair. And then Dennis had to go and be an ass about the whole thing - a specialty of his.

@@michaelbaughman8524 So when your opponent is an asset within the letter of the law, you're supposed to take it up the ass and not show him to be a farce?

Connor was an ass. But make no mistake about it, Fay was the bigger ass. Rather than learning from a promising first AC campaign, he single handedly started a spat which should never have happened in the first place. Even as a Kiwi, Fay deserved the biting on the ass he got.

​@michaelbaughman8524 I agree with your comment generally. But I think the initial response was intended in good humour. For a long time, the rules did favour the defender. That has changed and nowadays the race is almost unrecognisable from the 90's onwards.

@@michaelbaughman8524 Fair and square if the Australians designed the winged keel all by themselves, without help from the Dutch at the Netherlands towing tank -- where the boat was designed and tank tested. That's a big if, if you ask me. My understanding is that a Dutch understudy naval architect, who was there, had the distinct impression that the Dutch helped hatch the idea. He waited to come forward, as I recall. Which, if true, sorta puts Dennis' assholeness in (a somewhat diminished) perspective.

And everyone else's, certainly at the time.

Sure, because both are entirely representative of each country. They're completely unrelated events.

Here, here.

It was not a premature challenge. There is no set amount of years. The cat was clearly against the intention of the cup though, and ruined it ever since

@@ThatSB By "premature" I meant only that Fay's challenge was made much earlier than the traditionally observed interval between successive Cup challenges, not that it was made earlier than the rules permitted. The use of a catamaran to defend the challenge was no more or less compliant with the expressed the spirit or "intention of the cup" (rules or competition) than a challenge that specified a vessel and time frame that denied the recipient of the challenge any reasonable time to design and to test a totally new defending vessel that Mr. Fay already had in place. Two wrongs still don't make a right, and you are certainly correct that the cup challenges have not been the same ever since!

It would actually be interesting to know if they could have brought along a speed boat. The deed of gift design rules seem so lax that it might have even been possible ("no design requirements other than that the boat was to be 90 feet (27 m) or less at the waterline if it had one mast").

Play stupid games, lose stupid prizes. The kiwis should've followed the rules.

Kiwis coulda built a cat… too bad for them. mess with the bull, get the horns

You were RIGHT 100 PERCENT !!! The race was ruined by using differently designed and speed capable boats by the Kiwis is 84 and USA with the Cat !!! It was rediculous !!! Like having a Karate tournament with a man with no weapon aginst a samurai sword....doesnt make sense !!! Now look at the Sport. It is not Yatching !!! They need to bring back "CLASSIC AMERICAS CUP"

No, the Kiwis were entirely unsporting in this case, and the equally inappropriate American response was well warranted. The Kiwis built a massive, oversized boat before issuing the challenge that they knew the Americans would not have time to complete the build of an equal to within the time allotted to the challenge they issued. They got their just desserts. Both teams here completely ruined the "friendly" nature of the cup forever.

" The USA could have requested more time to develop a similar maxi-yacht or argued that it was not an economically feasible undertaking for any builder/sponsor" . . . Um what do you think the court case was about. The USA said 1 year was not enough; NZ said nothing in the rules specified it could not be 1 year. The court ruled that NZ was technically correct; no written and specific rules about time were in the Deed of Gift. " The Cup would have been better served had the sides simply agreed to race an established and identical "one-design" (I think the J40 was around back then) with the Skippers and crew of their choice.". Are you aware of any facts in this case? NZ specifically set the 27m boat condition as they already had a boat designed and built. When challenged about the boat size, NZ said again that nothing in the rules stated the boats had to be 12m. Basically NZ stacked the deck by exploiting loopholes. The US exploited another loophole to win.

Tell us all about the cheating engaged in by SDYC and the NYYC. Be specific.

Exactly

And new Zealands percentage?

Poke the bear

Marinas all over the world refute that absurd statement

Because the KIWIS started with the winged KEIL in 84 and cheated.....THEN you hlame the YANKS ??? ??? ???

FIRST OF ALL THE "WINGED KEIL DESIGN" IN 84 STARTED IT...WHY BLAME THE YANKS ??? THEY WANTED TO WIN LIKE THE 84 WINNERS !!! SO.....A TASTE OF THERE OWN MEDICINE CHANGED THE SPORT !!! IT WASNT THE YANKS FAULT BUT THE COMMITIES !!! !!! !!!

We could have, in three years. But the salty Kiwis had to break tradition and go to court over it. So, the Americans gave the Kiwis a taste of their own medicine.

no the Kiwis should have built a cat. not a slow monohull

Kiwis shoulda built a cat then

"The kiwi's built a great monhull, the US should have built a comparable boat to challenge" Except for the part where NZ wanted the race in 1 year giving the US not enough time to design and build such a boat? The two conditions of the challenge which NZ tried to stack the deck and steal a win: 27m boat (which they had already built) and 1 year's time. NZ was correct in that there no nothing in the rules that technically excluded the 27m boat or the 1 year deadline. The US responded by building catamarans as technically there was nothing about how many hulls a boat could have.

USA was true to their old selves. Liars and cheats. Masters of deception. As they have been for all of their very short history. Are you only aware of the deed of gift that defenders had to challenge and was written by the USA ?

I wonder what would have happened if Connors had gone the other way and sailed a 12 meter against the big boat - losing in a mismatch.

While I was a baby at the time and completely unaware of sailing, from looking at the media of the day, I think the San Diego editions of the AC in the 90s were still broadly popular in the US-- they were the first story in the sports sections of newspapers and sometimes even on the front page overall, they had ESPN coverage, there were America's Cup jokes in MAD Magazine and on Aaron Sorkin's show "Sports Night", etc. *Offshore* sailing also got a surprising amount of coverage in Sports Illustrated in the 1990s during the extreme sports craze even though most competitors there were French or British. I think the real point it fell out of American popular consciousness was sometime in the 2000s.

I wondered why I lost interest in the America's Cup. Now I know .

That's because Sailing USA focused on the America's cup to the detriment of all other sailing events in the US. Where as Aus and NZ both have significant focus on their main domestic regattas as well as being among the first to embrace of the new global comp's that were deemed "inferior" by sailing USA. Things have improved, but there's still too much focus on vanity projects like winning the Olympics instead of fortifying domestic US comps.

Cause Americans can't sail🤣

I don't really understand why cheating was so cool - because prior to Alan Bond taking the cup - the rules were meant to hamper nations smaller than US. The rules regarding sail material meant that every other nation except US had horrible sails.

He wasn’t too slow. The other dude is a dick and left him hanging.

The kiwis started it in 84' with winged Keil !!!

​@@frankesposito2182 You mean the Aussies with Australia 2

No idea what you are talking about. What race was that?

- its equally ridiculous to challenge a team you know is capable of building an F1 car to a race where the only technical requirement is the car being under 5meters long and expecting to win with said DTM car.

@@banaana1234 yes and no. When you talk about a DTM while you build a DTM and the opponent builds a F1, you can not go back. From that moment, the kiwis knew about Conner‘s boat, they had no time to construct and build a new. Connor is a typical, wide walking, chewinggum american. I would not want to sit with him in the same boat, sorry. Like a dog who roar one person and stay calm on a nother person. Mybe i‘m wrong, but my dog would roar to Connor.

It actually amazes me that it took practically 20 years more before everyone finally got together and thought "heyyy, these cats are fast and fun! Surely this will grow the sport". Sadly, for SailGP this is true but for the AC, there seems to be less and less teams each regatta. I really hope they find a way to reverse this trend.

I AGREE 100 PERCENT !!! They should have a "CLASSIC AMERICAS CUP" with exact same boats !!! How can we ask them to sp this ???

I mean they r foiling monohull now

@@captaintoyota3171 True, I meant non-foiling monohulls...

At least anything America's Cup related. Buddy Melges helmed the US victory in 92

Yes, Connor actually used the Young America boat which he'd beaten in the qualifiers as he felt it was the better boat to challenge Black Magic.

It's a common question. The answer is no, America don't need to be in the Cup. They often are but several times including in the last Cup they didn't qualify. Because of the name of the cup people often think that America must be involved but actually the Cup isn't named after the country but the first yacht to win the trophy. Check out this video for how the cup came to be- ru-vid.com/video/%D0%B2%D0%B8%D0%B4%D0%B5%D0%BE-hz-amnxfmiI.html

@@FastForwardSailing Thanks for that. I gotta say though I lost interest since the cats came in. I was in California when we, Oz, won the cup in 83. Also in Perth for 87. Fantastic times for both.

@@garyritchie3556 Yeah there's certainly a big divide between fans which like and the cats and those that don't. It's not cats anymore but still foiling. Must have been great being an Oz fan at that time!

@@FastForwardSailing Oh don't get me wrong, I love watching those foil cats race, amazing stuff. But the AC has lost the importance, besides I never know when it's on. Yes it was free drinks everywhere in 83 in Canada and US, and the party atmosphere in Perth in 87 was euphoric. When the racing was on in 87, with the number of boats on the water, you could literally walk across to Rottenest Island, 19km away. Loved it all.

@@garyritchie3556 Sounds awesome!