Respect to James. He couldn't defend his positions, but he listened and acknowledged when Matt or Jimmy made a point. I look forward to his next call. ☮
Atheism NEVER has a "point." Atheism continues to be totally debunked as there is no rational atheist explanation for reality and no atheist cause (e.g. nothing, star dust, moist rocks, mud puddles, hot rocks, moon dirt, warm ponds, oceans, primordial soup) can produce anything we observe in the world today and no atheist idea (e.g. multiverse, big bang, abiogenesis, mistakes (mutations) gaining in complexity/new information, star formation, evolution) has ever been observed or even proved to be possible. No atheist can present a rational atheist explanation for reality. That’s because there isn’t one. As you can see, I easily debunk all atheist ideas & point out the fact that the asinine, lost & clueless religious cult of atheism (we all have a faith) is INFAMOUS the world over for having ZERO ANSWERS. That's because atheism is all lies where it's patrons desperately cling to the IMPOSSIBLE. Atheism = rebellious delusion. I continue to always win & that will be the case for yrs to come on any thread or channel that I choose to enter. I promise.
Oh James... I was also raised Catholic and when the news First came out in the 80s the church was doing this shit my parents stopped going to church and we had gone every single week and twice on religious holidays. They gave me and my brother the choice to keep going if we wanted because I was an alter boy who had mentioned becoming a priest. I did a lot of thinking with the news in my head and being half way through reading the bible. I finished as much as I could now stomach of it and gave up organized religion for over a decade before I gave up gods all together..
Religion, as self defined, should be treated like any substance that can screw your mind up. Regulated like alcohol, so as, you cant consume it before age 21.
James was the most honest caller I have heard in a while. It was a bit frustrating hearing him so close, then his indoctrination taking over. I hope he calls back!
It IS frustrating, but we have to remember, that pastors already are familiar with (in this example) anti-Catholic arguments and would have spent many hours drilling the "answers" to whatever questions a non-believer (or believer of a different stripe) would have. It doesn't matter how nice or kind James is, he's a victim of propaganda and needs guidance from the right person who can help him walk through his thoughts and beliefs in a way that is kind, but allows for him to think about the questions his pastor shoved into a closet years ago. Sometimes people who don't know better just need a reminder that they ARE allowed to think for themselves and that they will be much happier when they do.
Yeah, the idea that it makes him a better person but he can't accept that he just is the good person already is the indoctrination. You are God's most perfect nothing.
I think you have to deal with 3 layers when dealing with Christians, first use common sense, then expel a fear of hell finally since indoctrination is very strong persistent reinforcement is necessary
For God so loved the world that he caused a tiny subset of it to be born into the exact right geographical location and the exact right parents to pass on the exact right version of religion out of the thousands of others, while screwing the vast majority of the remainder. John 17:20-23
Not even close. Intellect overrides the teachings of youth; thus, it doesn’t matter where you were born. There are millions of Christians in the Chinese underground. There are thousands of daily conversions to Christianity in Muslim nations and there are actually atheists in the Christian nation of the U.S. Go figure.
James might not have good reasons for his beliefs but I really appreciated his honesty and willingness to answer all questions without tap dancing around them. Compared to so many theists who call in with certainty he was able to say I don't know. I hope he calls back because he seems like a really nice guy who never once got defensive.
When I was a christian the catalyst for me becoming Atheist was when I considered that if I was in a conversatiom with a jew a muslim a hindu and budhist at best only one of us could be right and the odds of me being right purely because i was raised Christian were slim. And all of the other religions had similar claims of guidance and miracle claims so I knew that couldnt be a result of individual religions being correct.
yeah, I’ve learned over the years that it’s hard for many theists to view themselves from another person’s perspective; like a lack of empathy or something.
@@24magiccarrot I had that "but what if religion X is right and you're wrong?" argument with a very xtian family member when I was just 8 years old. He answer was "because the dead sea scrolls confirm that the bible is true", as if that was some kind of answer. I realised right then that the some people are simply too illogical for any kind of rational discussion. 40 years later she's still trying to get family members to read the book of revelation and prepare for jesus' return. Pointing out that people have been saying "he's coming back soon" for thousands of years gets you nowhere, the best thing is to ignore them.
Wrong. Test of faith? Weak faith doesn't constitute the fact that Christianity ALONE has all the facts and the asinine, lost & clueless religious cult of atheism has NONE. Atheism continues to be totally debunked as there is no rational atheist explanation for reality and no atheist cause (e.g. nothing, star dust, moist rocks, mud puddles, hot rocks, moon dirt, warm ponds, oceans, primordial soup) can produce anything we observe in the world today and no atheist idea (e.g. multiverse, big bang, abiogenesis, mistakes (mutations) gaining in complexity/new information, star formation, evolution) has ever been observed or even proved to be possible. No atheist can present a rational atheist explanation for reality. That’s because there isn’t one. As you can see, I easily debunk all atheist ideas & point out the fact that the asinine, lost & clueless religious cult of atheism (we all have a faith) is INFAMOUS the world over for having ZERO ANSWERS. That's because atheism is all lies where it's patrons desperately cling to the IMPOSSIBLE. Atheism = rebellious delusion. I continue to always win & that will be the case for yrs to come on any thread or channel that I choose to enter. I promise.
Being confident enough to say, "I don't know" is so incredibly important. Moreover, showing willingness to find out is exemplary. Huge amount of credit and respect to James
I was baptised Evengelical and raised as a Lutheran. I don't remember going to church much as my parents divorced when I was 4 in 1969. I went to church with some friends when I was 7 after we had moved to Az. Even then I questioned why. They were doing the cracker and wine stuff and I remember thinking how this represented someones body and blood and why in the hell were we eating it. I chose not to. Through the years I found myself wanting to believe but not finding a reason to. My big brother was killed in a chemical explosion in 1979 while in the USCG. He was a great guy. He had recently married and had a 18 month old little girl. WTF did he do to deserve this ? Where was this god that was supposed to be so f'ing good ? He apparently saves assholes and lets good people die. That's when I totally gave up on religion. I'm 58 now and I'm still and forever an atheist. Watching Matt and the others has greatly opened my eyes as to why god isn't worthy of any praise or worship. Thank you guys for putting into words what my mind has been telling me for yrs. If religious people would actually open their minds and listen...wait...that'll never happen.
I'm 10 mins in and this is one of the best/productive conversations I've seen on this show. It's so rare to see a person honestly answer the questions posed and take time to consider the issues being discussed... even if he ends up in exactly the same place he started, this is the kind of conversation that can help others deconstruct.
"If there's one thing you should do for your kids, it is, keep them as far away from a church as you can". Frank Zappa. I left on my own at age 17. I'm fine...
@@mlthornton1 It's perfectly valid. It's called faith for the very reason that there's no good reason for believing it. It's not evidentiary, demonstrable, empirical or logical. It's nothing.
The oily foot massage scene. The typical "how can I ever repay you" bits after the miracles. And when he saved that adultress in Daniel. (Or Daniel in the adultress?)
"I put money in the basket". Reminds me of the late, great George Carlin "And He needs money! He always needs money! He’s all-powerful, all- perfect, all-knowing, and all-wise, somehow just can’t handle money!"
Yeah, George Carlin showed the hypocrisy and stupidity of religion. It's about time we start holding religious nutters accountable. Enough with freedom of religion. It's time to call it out for the pile of rotting, stinking, steamy pile of crap it really is and the people who believe it absent of proof are sickos.
The trigger to my development to atheism was actually the realization of other religions’ claims by believers who believed and experienced the same way I did. Right on Matt and Jimmy!
If the Catholic god had ever decided to visit me and perform some miracles I would still be a Catholic. As an atheist I no longer suffer the interference from someone who isn't there.
To be fair James seems like a perfectly decent sort of person, it's just that his and my world views are (ironically) worlds apart. I obviously don't believe in the power of prayer, but even so the idea that God can just suspend your free will because someone who sucks up to them more than you asked him nicely to do so, really squicks me out. GET OUT OF MY BRAIN GOD, GO FIND YOUR OWN P.S. Thank you for pointing out that Mother Teresa wasn't actually a particularly good person Matt. I grew up in England within a very secular upbringing and environment, but even here back in the 90's Teresa had this mainstream public image as an unassailably saintly individual, about as much a personification of selfless good a living person can be perceived to be. Turns out in hindsight that she was nothing of the sort. Christopher Hitchens surmised it best in an essay he wrote about her; _"This returns us to the medieval corruption of the church, which sold indulgences to the rich while preaching hellfire and continence to the poor. Mother Teresa was not a friend of the poor."_
There have been so many charismatic prophets though history that I can't help but think that the jews believed that their religion was true for so many centuries that some of them were extremely desperate for their prophecies to be fulfilled and they subsequently pinned their hopes and dreams on some apocalyptic prophet that had gained massive popularity before getting himself crucified. People just hate being wrong so much and they want to fit in so bad. And basically people are idiots 😄
@@donnyh3497 A person could think that, until they learn all the evidence needed to determine if that is true or not. When you compare the life of jesus in the bible with the military campaign of titus as described in Antiquities' of the Jews using a method of comparison called typology, you will learn the life of jesus as told in the bible is just a respun version of the military campaign of titus as described in Antiquities of the Jews. They're not talking about an actual man that lived here, they're making up this man jews expected but turning him into a savior for gentiles to appeal to a wider audience. The concept of the savior figure was turned on it's head from a savior that freed the slaves like moses did into a savior that says render unto ceasar what is ceasars and slaves obey your masters. The way he became a savior that doesnt' free the slaves but serves the interests of rome really gives it all away. That and the fact it's just typical throughout history for religious deities to be entirely fictional. The yahweh is the same way as well as the thousands of other gods man has made up, it's par for the course to make religious dieties up entirely from peoples imagination.
@@roqsteady5290 Have you read all the canonical and *non canonical writings* about jesus from the time? It's clear if you just read them all they are not talking about any one real person that existed in real life. They're all contradictory and vastly different views about what a coming savior would be like from people who obviously knew nothing about him and didn't agree at all on what to expect.
Indeed. And I find it interesting that no one has a problem with the idea that, for example, Herakles wasn’t based on a real person. Could there have been some real person that the Hercules myths came from? Just like with Jesus, it’s possible. There are some ideas. But even if he was based on a real person, all that remains of that real person in the myths and legends that were created of him is personhood. There’s nothing meaningfully real about the character. Same with any other gods. And yet in countries steeped in christianity, even people who become atheists have a really hard time letting go of the idea that there must have been an actual person at the core of the Jesus story. Because there are infinite ways to be wrong and only one way to be right, the best way to maximize your odds of believing as many true things and as few false things as possible is to say that nothing is true until you have a good reason to think otherwise. I don’t have a good reason to think Jesus was meaningfully based on a real person, so until I have one, I must conclude that he was not.
James, you are a gentleman! So refreshing to hear a logical, respectful conversation that may very well lead to someone seeing their way out of religion.
STOP the stupidity. Atheism is a religion w/ tenets (e.g. big bang, abiogenesis, mistakes (mutations) gaining in complexity/new information, star formation, evolution) of which I debunk w/ ease. Any belief re the cause of this universe is a religion and you've tagged yourself an "atheist" because you believe atheist ideas re the cause of this universe (nature: time/space/matter/energy. You also believe that evolution is the "controlling power" over life, instead of God. THAT is religion. Either you have a RATIONAL POSSIBLE world view or you don't. To be an atheist and have no factual basis for your cult, is to be content to be even more lost and clueless than yesterday. Why do you cling so desperately to an asinine atheist cult that's INFAMOUS the world over for having ZERO ANSWERS? Could you be more lost and clueless? Einstein called atheism "a religion formed to reject other religions. How cute and desperate they are." I know it hurts to know that the most famous and respected scientist of our generation believed atheists to be pathetic idiots.
8:30 Wow! Matt just slays the whole concept of praying for someone else during this conversation. praying for his brother would be god changing his plan and taking away free will.
This is a good example demonstration of confusion on the part of theists. It appears confusion goes hand-in-hand with cognitive dissonance. Confusion as a defense mechanism is deliberate.
Speaking as a former Catholic, once I got out of it, and educated myself about Classical Antiquity, I saw the huge influence of paganism on the Catholic Church. They literally worship idols! Statues everywhere with candles in front of them. This was lifted directly from the Greek/Roman religion of the time. How can everyone not see it?
So- what's wrong with that? I'm a Catholic, and have certain favourite saints, and of course there's a crucifix on the wall, a statue of the Virgin on a bookcase, and various images of the saints, around my flat, some I've drawn or painted myself. I cannot see the point of your complaint - no religion develops in a vacuum.
@@jamesupton4996Your bible explicitly says not to and to murder and persecute those that do (Which the Catholic Church definitely has done). The Bible also preaches against witchcraft yet all of gods prophets and even Jesus committed witchcraft at every chance they got (necromancy, soothsaying, divination, ritual sacrifice, etc). Catholicism is blatant hypocrisy to Christianity. Christianity is blatantly hypocritical towards everyone else. I’m willing to bet you’ve never actually read your holy book in it’s entirety or considered it with any real thought to it’s effects in reality The fact that you can’t see that and are still calling yourself a Catholic is proof of your cognitive dissonance and willingness to commit to a disgusting, backwards idea, and your lack of actual morals.
@@jamesupton4996 Exodus 20:4 ""You are not to make for yourselves a carved image or any kind of representation of anything in heaven above, on the earth beneath or in the water below the shoreline." You don't see any problem with doing something Bible explicitly forbids? How do you excuse it to yourself in your own mind? Are you even familiar with this verse - and if not, why an atheist has to bring it to your attention?
@@FrikInCasualMode Of course I am familiar with it, but what the Jewish people did back in the second millennium before Christ, and continue to do, and what we Catholics do are two different things. For instance in Catholicism and other Christian denominations we have priests; Judaism does not and for that matter, neither does a great religion like Islam. So, lifting a verse from the Bible does not establish what you might think. There are divergences and developments across the centuries, whilst remaining true to our heritage.
Foundation crumbling? No, that's atheism. Because the asinine, lost & clueless religious cult of atheism continues to be totally debunked as there is no rational atheist explanation for reality and no atheist cause (e.g. nothing, star dust, moist rocks, mud puddles, hot rocks, moon dirt, warm ponds, oceans, primordial soup) can produce anything we observe in the world today and no atheist idea (e.g. multiverse, big bang, abiogenesis, mistakes (mutations) gaining in complexity/new information, star formation, evolution) has ever been observed or even proved to be possible. No atheist can present a rational atheist explanation for reality. That’s because there isn’t one. As you can see, I easily debunk all atheist ideas & point out the fact that the asinine, lost & clueless religious cult of atheism (we all have a faith) is INFAMOUS the world over for having ZERO ANSWERS. That's because atheism is all lies where it's patrons desperately cling to the IMPOSSIBLE. Atheism = rebellious delusion.
When Matt mentioned Mother Teresa, he took me back to my elementary days and how heavy this woman was worshipped after her death throughout even my city. And to instill so many influences that this woman was indeed an _influential_ person is pretty insane.
When it comes to proving the Jesus character. Why is there no contemporary reference to this person? If the stories in the Bible are to be believed, surely people would have written about him at the time. The fact that there were profits, lends credence to the fact, that there was an itinerant rabbi, and perhaps his name was Jesus, as it was quite a popular name at the time. It certainly doesn’t point towards a supernatural being, capable of performing miracles, and being raised from the dead. 🙂
STOP w/ your stupidity. Jesus did/does exist. Keep in mind that Jesus was considered a rogue of society. An outcast of not only the church, but the community. "CRUCIFY HIM!" they shouted. I doubt the NYTimes of the time would publish an article about him. There’s just as much evidence of Jesus as there is evidence for anything else of that time. Virtually all modern scholars of antiquity agree that Jesus existed historically and historians consider the Synoptic Gospels (Matthew, Mark and Luke) to be the best sources for investigating the historical Jesus. Most scholars agree that Jesus was a Galilean, Jewish rabbi who preached his message orally, was baptized by John the Baptist, and was crucified by the order of the Roman Prefect Pontius Pilate. “That he was crucified is as sure as anything historical can ever be, since both Josephus and Tacitus... agree with the Christian accounts on at least that basic fact." - John Dominic, N.T. Scholar "There is no scholar in any college or university in the western world who teaches classics, ancient history, new testament, early Christianity, any related field who doubts that Jesus existed.” - Bart Ehrman, New Testament ATHEIST scholar - University of North Carolina at Chapel Hill.
Jimmy got the mythicist position wrong. The mythicist position isn't that Jesus didn't exist. It's that he probably didn't exist. There's no position that he didn't exist because he can't be ruled out, of course.
My son was born in a Catholic hospital. It was the closest hospital and the one covered under insurance. They circumcised him, even though I said that I didn't want that. His mother asked for her tubes tied, and they denied her the procedure because it's against THEIR strongly held beliefs. In lieu of tubal ligation as birth control, they recommended breastfeeding. I replied, "How do you think she got pregnant in the first place?" Yea, by that point I was more than a little upset. The religious are consistently unfeeling monsters.
You really got it on that last sentence. I would have sued these guys up to the Supreme Court for circumcising my son. When I got out of jail for beating the person responsible into a coma.
Come on lol the book is inspired because the book says it's inspired 😂 lol it must be inspired. You can tell the invisible spirits prove it's real. Not
It is so refreshing to hear that a religious person listens to reason and does not get angry and butt hurt when they find flaws in his "logic". Again so refreshing.
Old Mark Twain quotes describes this conversation perfectly.... _"Faith is believing what you know ain't' so..."_ *- Mark Twain* _"The easy confidence with which I know another man's religion is folly teaches me to suspect that my own is also."_ *- Mark Twain* _“Religion consists in a set of things which the average man thinks he believes and wishes he was certain...”_ *- Mark Twain*
That ended so wholesomely lol. I think James really started to realize some issues with his church and hopefully he starts to question and think rationally about it because with some more talking and learning I think he’d start to wake up about all this.
the experiment all theists are scared of is the whole "instead of prayer make a wish and cut a fart" when some finds out prayer can be substituted with that it forever mind Fs them and people refuse to bring cake to u on ur birthday... sometimes you gotta fight fire with fire..
has anyone got james' phone # ?! I've got a mate that's missing a limb and I'd sure like james to put in a word with the big fella. it'd be a great birthday present !
At least 99% mythicism is reasonable: If there was a real person, he resembles the stories about him to an even lesser degree than does a historic Robin Hood or King Arthur resemble the myths about them.
Yup, especially since the 'Jesus' of each gospel is totally different from each other, from the Jesus of the letters, from the Jesus of the noncanonical gospels that were only rejected because of a committee decision and from the Jesus that each of the different s CTS, denominations and believers believe in.... They're ALL different and they can't all be true.
The Kablam, God's Illogical Argument. Okay, so Way Back there was Nothing. And God said... Okay, there was Nothing. Plus God. And God said "KABLAM!". And, all of a sudden, there were stars and galaxies and stuff. All over the damn place. God had to jump out of the way. And God said "whoaaa. Cool. Pretty good for My first try. Hey look... oh. Right."
"This country, with its magnificent scientific and technological power, is left in the vacuum of a pre-intellectual era, like the wandering hordes of the Dark Ages --- or in the position of an adolescent before he has learned to conceptualize." -Ayn Rand-
I'm pretty sure the writers of the bible sincerely believed what they were writing. Whether intentionally or not, they were very clever to frame it so it didn't need to be proven or demonstrated to hold belief. They even said it was virtuous to not question the belief and rely completely on faith alone. How is this a good foundation for a world view?!
@@mlthornton1 It's bad because It opens the door for any claims to be made without question which is exactly how cults are formed. Christianity is basically a giant cult and a death cult at that because it promises everything after one dies.
@@mlthornton1Because it has no evidence to support it. Basing your worldview on some unverified claims in an old fairytale is not a good way to ensure your worldview actually fits reality.
"I'm pretty sure the writers of the bible sincerely believed what they were writing." Why? There's plenty of evidence to suggest that the jesus story was made up from other stories, like Homer's Odyssey.
Oh puh-leeeze. Atheism continues to be totally debunked as there is no rational atheist explanation for reality and no atheist cause (e.g. nothing, star dust, moist rocks, mud puddles, hot rocks, moon dirt, warm ponds, oceans, primordial soup) can produce anything we observe in the world today and no atheist idea (e.g. multiverse, big bang, abiogenesis, mistakes (mutations) gaining in complexity/new information, star formation, evolution) has ever been observed or even proved to be possible. No atheist can present a rational atheist explanation for reality. That’s because there isn’t one. As you can see, I easily debunk all atheist ideas & point out the fact that the asinine, lost & clueless religious cult of atheism (we all have a faith) is INFAMOUS the world over for having ZERO ANSWERS. That's because atheism is all lies where it's patrons desperately cling to the IMPOSSIBLE. Atheism = rebellious delusion.
If there were as many cities named Jesusia scattered all over places that had entirely different cultures and spoke as many different languages as the many examples of Hellenic Alexandria, not only would I be more confident in the existence of Jesus, but I'd also know he was a skillful conqueror.
when this guy said he has noticed effects from his prayers, my brain jokingly went to "I prayed to have a good day at work because my job is bad and it's a busy and stressful time of the month", and he literally mentions praying for someone that had a bad job and then they probably went out ON THEIR OWN and looked for a new job because I'm quite sure it didn't just come to him out of nowhere. that's evidence of prayer being answered? wtf. pray to see a congo line of squirrels perform ballet in the street and tell me if that happens because then I'll believe prayer is real for sure.
I tend to phrase it like this: The mythical jesus, meaning the jesus as described in the bible, did not exist. However there very likely was one (or several) jewish apocalyptic preachers (possibly even called jesus as this was a very common name at the time) on whom the stories about jesus are based.
I watch a stream that covers current events from a left wing perspective. In 2023 there were so many catholic and Protestant priests being caught and or arrested that he started covering the cases. The numbers were averaging at least one priest per day. And the trend has continued in 2024. I’m talking about the one specific crime they are known to commit that will get my comment deleted for typing out.
How can anyone say that Alexander the great never existed?? 🤣 and also its very likely that Jesus christ existed. Certainly not the son of God but its very likely that he did exist.
Seems like this guy might just have the mental horsepower to work through this and realize he doesn’t have any justification. Rare is the theist who can have an open mind, which is why I don’t think he will remain a theist
These poor guys who call in, I feel for them. They really struggle and they're trying, but these hosts just seem to beat up on them. I hope they get some good bonuses for contributing to this show.
@@mlthornton1 Look man the internal contradictions of your worldview can be pointed out by a 16 year old in 20 minutes 😂 people like M.D aren't needed.
@@mlthornton1Do you feel comforted by the thought that people are probably MD binge watchers to have come to a position of not being religious. I was non religious for over 50 years before I even became aware of MD's existence.
But so is atheism. Atheism continues to be totally debunked as there is no rational atheist explanation for reality and no atheist cause (e.g. nothing, star dust, moist rocks, mud puddles, hot rocks, moon dirt, warm ponds, oceans, primordial soup) can produce anything we observe in the world today and no atheist idea (e.g. multiverse, big bang, abiogenesis, mistakes (mutations) gaining in complexity/new information, star formation, evolution) has ever been observed or even proved to be possible. No atheist can present a rational atheist explanation for reality. That’s because there isn’t one. As you can see, I easily debunk all atheist ideas & point out the fact that the asinine, lost & clueless religious cult of atheism (we all have a faith) is INFAMOUS the world over for having ZERO ANSWERS. That's because atheism is all lies where it's patrons desperately cling to the IMPOSSIBLE. Atheism = rebellious delusion. These 2 hosts are fools (atheists) and their less-than-worthless, asinine, lost & clueless religious cult of atheism is INFAMOUS the world over for having ZERO ANSWERS. No atheist has a RATIONAL/POSSIBLE, step-by-step atheist explanation for reality. That's because there isn't one. THESE GUYS ADMIT THAT THEY HAVE NO ANSWERS!!! The fact remains that along w/ DYING/FINITE space/matter/energy, TIME had a cause. The logical conclusion (when we follow the evidence) is that such a cause is TIMELESS. And if you're TIMELESS, do you have a beginning or end? No. We call that cause "OUR INFINITE, SUPERNATURAL GOD," who by definition is TIMELESS, CHANGELESS, BEGINNINGLESS, SPACELESS, IMMATERIAL and ENORMOUSLY POWERFUL. These topics are the most important topics known; thus, EVERYONE should have a vast understanding of the facts that frame the truth of these topics and not be so content to gulp down the false propaganda of channels such as this one. THESE GUYS ADMIT THAT THEY HAVE NO ANSWERS!!!
