CAUGHT SPEEDING BY POLICE or SPEED CAMERA: What to expect | BlackBeltBarrister 

Daniel - great video. I'm an Institute of Advanced Motorist driver and former instructor for them, whilst in most normal circumstances you should drive at or as near to the speed limit as possible so as not to slow up traffic, there are times when driving to the speed limit is not only not advisable but is dangerous. I often hear from folk that often police in England won't stop or prosecute someone on the Motorway unless they are exceeding 80mph in a 70mph posted limit and often not until they reach the threshold near or at "excessive speed" (generally thought to be 15mph over the posted limit). I'm assuming this is because a conviction would be a slam dunk for that speed. It's certainly NOT that case in Scotland where the speed limits are much more rigidly enforced. I was a passenger in a car that was stopped by a police car in Dumfries (about 70 miles South of where i live in Glasgow) and the driver (my friend) was doing 75mph in a 70mph zone and was prosecuted - reason being was because it was slightly foggy and visibility was reduced to about 150 yards. At the time the Policeman mentioned the reduced visibility as an important factor along with the damp surface. When in court (i was a witness for my friend) this evidence was read out and my fried duly received 3 points and a £100+ fine. Afterwards while having a late lunch and a drink in a pub to calm his nerves (i drove back) the actual judge came in and spoke to us at the bar stating in his many years it is unusual to see such a low tolerance of speeding prosecuted, however he felt duty bound because my friend admitted exceeding the limit and the police officers comments about the fog and dampness of the surface. He said he reduced the fine because my friend opted not to bring a lawyer, pleaded guilty immediately and explained the circumstances. Another misconception is the thought that you can break the speed limit briefly to overtake as long as you return to the speed limit when you've completed the manoeuver, this is incorrect you should not overtake unless you can do so without exceeding the speed limit. I've heard some folk claim that a flowing police car records your speed over 1/4 to 1/2 of a mile because of this (to allow you to overtake another driver without them having to stop you) however AFAIK the reason for this is simply to ensure that they can prove you were speeding beyond what would be termed as a momentary lapse (a few seconds) Perhaps a video to cover some of these points?

@@terencej72 That's interesting, thanks - perhaps I could set up "guest" shows if you would be interested in speaking?

@@BlackBeltBarrister don't worry about Mr swift or his wife. their daughter taylor has plenty of money and good lawyers I am told.

Are the police now a Corporation? It it legal to charge people for crimes?

@@elizabethoxley8375 no. The police work for the Queen. It is the Queen's justice that is served. She can stop a prosecution if she wants to.

We had almost the same situation We replied that since the vehicle is used by various people so we asked for a copy of the photo It wasn't clear on the photo who was driving We replied that it wasn't clear who was the driver at the time. Since we were unable to identify who the driver was, being the registered keeper I replied since we couldn't identify who was driving at the time, that I would accept the fine Interestingly they wrote back saying that there wasn't an option for when the actual driver cannot be identified and in future a log should be kept who was driving. Obviously this is OK, but when on a long trip, with 2 or 3 different drivers who can remember who was driving especially when you aren't aware of speeding. Interestingly we found out the mobile unit was just after a speed change from 40 down to 30. We were caught doing 34mph on a road we weren't familiar with in my opinion you shouldn't be fined especially since it's clear you are/where slowing down It would be interesting to see how many fines are issued very close to a speed transition point, I.e from 40 to 30

There is no requirement that I know of for a private owner to keep track of who was driving at any particular time, just that they are insured.

@RonSeymour1 That's what I thought needless to say we don't bother, especially since we don't knowingly speed Fining doesn't deter speeders, all it does is raise revenue, especially the mobile van ones, If they want to reduce speeding make the mobile vans more prominent and visible Surely the object is to stop speeding, not generate revenue

Coming up!

Thank you, kind Sir!

Hi Ian, wondering if you can help me out, what are the rules regarding the "14 days" I got flashed twice on the same night both roads were previously 30mph and I didn't realize it changed to 20mph. Tomorrow's going to be exactly 14 days and I haven't received anything, I'm a cab driver aswell

@@Finggy The 14 days argument is a bit of a tricky one. In short... the day of the alleged offense doesn't count. So, if you get a NIP (Notice of Intended Prosecution) 15 days later, it is valid. If it arrives 16 days or later, it can be challenged. However, the challenge will not be about the alleged offence, only about 'procedural failure' by the Police. So, if the letter you have covers both times you are alleged to have been speeding but the first one is outside of the time limit (16 days +), then you can part challenge it. Hope that is clear.

@@IanMcFerran Hi Ian, I just realized today is actually the 15th day, I will definitely challenge both of them. Thank you for your help.

Additionally, the operators are required to complete a dynamic risk assessment for the placement.....this documentation should be evidenced in the instance of a case being challenged.

Is the camera operator meant to be a police officer or can they be operated by just staff members

Thanks for the comment and for watching!

But how on Earth do you show your due diligence? Send a photo of me looking through my "diary" scratching my head and with a confused expression? 😂😂

Speeding is dealt with by the police pot holes aren't?

Who's they?

In all fairness, it's likely that 99.99% of speed limit exceeding is not ticketed Many drivers should be liable for multiple speeding tickets each day because they routinely exceed the speed limit, but may go years without actually being caught even once

Close-passing of a cyclist should be a much higher penalty.

@@terryseerey176 has that defence ever even 1 TIME been successful in court? It's baloney

@@terryseerey176 how does that prove anything? That's not a court What about we just ask a real lawyer and see what he has to say? Please check Lehto's law driver's license

@@terryseerey176 source - ru-vid.com/video/%D0%B2%D0%B8%D0%B4%D0%B5%D0%BE-pgB2Cixevmc.html

I cannot comment on police enforcement but as a manual road safety volunteer who assists the police, we have to report speeders with foreign numberplates, and they will get letters from the police. We never used to do this, but we have done since about 2 years ago.

When I worked in this area, police would rarely pursue a road traffic offence involving a foreign registered vehicle when the driver was not stopped by police at the time of the alleged offence. However, I know of a situation where someone had hired car in a foreign country. The hire company was issued with a speeding ticket directly and the hire company then proceeded to deduct the fine from the hirers credit card.

Urban myth ... there's no "10%+2" rule ... even 1mph over the limit *can* get you a ticket.

@@phillwainewright4221 Found this article which says it isn’t an urban myth: www.manchestereveningnews.co.uk/news/uk-news/inside-mobile-speed-camera-van-17232150

@@VicFlange QUOTE - You will not get a ticket as long as your speed does not exceed the limit by 10 per cent, plus one mile per hour on North Wales roads. - UNQUOTE. That's North Wales, not the rest of the UK. Each Police Force has it's own rules, but "10% +2mph" is NOT the law.

Correct. Never give any evidence against yourself ... that is the accusing parties' job ...

Same in Germany where I once lived. No court appearance, no argueing ... just the letter in the post with the exact time, a very sharp photo of the number plate and the very sharp portrait of the driver which cannot be denied. Pay the fine and go about your business again, but more cautiously.

Or your plate has been cloned 🤔

@@NoBody-gf8ie yes

😆 a regular civilian would never get away with that

@@ricochetpig No they wouldn't. Police are civilians though & subject to all the same laws as non police. Here's another one, a police superintendent, said he couldn't remember who was driving, let off. www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-68055/How-forgetful-policeman-let-speeding-fine.html

the biggest criminal gang in the UK = the "police",

@@paulhammersley4562 I haven't found that to be true. They're much like any organisation - a cross-section of people, some idiots, some real villains, plenty of nice and normal people trying their best and acting in good conscience. To see the entire force as immoral, base and corrupt is to wilfully ignore a large portion of the available evidence.

@@1starshot no date is this a new story?

Does that mean the present political leaders are going to prison? Because they lie like f---k to us.

Well do everyone including yourself a favour and go back to the USA, bye bye, we wont miss you!

Might agree about roads, but I remember just as many confusing signs in the US, but our mainline trains are way above Amtrack and the like.

Nope car insurance is the biggest con in this country.

Martin Mowbray ......ive been driving over 30 years and never had a ticket or a bump.

Since they only catch people speeding then there is no con in it. Don't speed and you won't see a fine

@@pauldavison7105 The problem with speed cameras is they do nothing to make the roads safer,check the figures on the effects of cameras since they were introduced.Cameras only catch a few speeding motorists but do not deal with all the other issues on the roads.You only need look on here at the thousands of dash cam footage to see that speeding is only a small reason for road crashes.Bad/poor driving is on the increase and the number of police officers is on the decrease.Cameras are used as a easy fix but one that does nothing for overall road safety.

@@stephenmudiecastles.2938 speeding is bad driving and regardless of what a camera is placed for they only catch people guilty of speeding. Don't speed and you don't get caught

Well you’ve done your due diligence to find out who it was that’s completely fine

Any loose-leaf folder will take up much more physical space than a simple booklet. But, really, you can't have updates to a list of numbered rules. If they insert a new rule between rule 1 and rule 2, every other rule in the book needs to be renumbered. Altering any rule may also cause big changes to pagination for the rest of the book after that point. Even if you somehow solved those problems (call the new rule "Rule 1a" and leave enough blank space that massive repagination is unlikely), you're in a situation where many people are going to accidentally mis-apply the update (e.g., discard the new version of page 14, instead of the old one) causing a lot of confusion. Also, has covid really increased the number of pedestrians? With vast numbers of people working from home, I was under the impression that footfall in most places had fallen by a lot.

I've been wondering that for some time now... Is it discrimination?

Just need to prove it was sent. Not received.

Exactly. It's not that you are legally allowed to do 10%+2, rather that the police don't bother below 10%+2 because it's more likely to get disputed and waste public purse money on no-conviction court cases.

It's as much to do with Speedo discrepancies. 10%+2 in a 30mph is 35mph, which is likely to be an indicated 38-40mph in most cars, so obviously going way over 30mph. No real excuse if you get stopped or flashed by a camera in other words. It's also because the Police do not, contrary to some opinions, want to fine everyone for doing 35mph in a 30, and are generally happy to allow some leeway and discretion - there are unofficial limits to give a warning or a ticket. Obviously cameras are black and white and (often justifiably) hated by motorists.

The 14 days and not being valid thing is spot on, not 100% sure about the request for evidence but it does ring a bell.

There’s not always a need to have blue lights on when on an Immediate response. If they needed to catch up to a vehicle ahead they wanted to check or read the registration etc …

No, nothing to do with 'doppler' that is only related to radar. You refer to the cosine effect which is always in your favour - so no opportunity of a defence.

They only have to be calibrated yearly

omg. What an idiot. That is such a basic road safety law. Sounds quite funny though. That has made my day. PS. Thanks for being an athiest.

For any doubters this is a very true story.

@irigouis88 if you see it as a privilege thats your view. But it does not change the fact its not how it works. Thats like saying if you believe a lie is it truthful. The highways are not publicly owned either. Your allowed to use them by way of your licence, you must obey their rules and regulations or face its penalties. Thats your choice todo all of that. I choose not to follow your choices as I dont like being tricked or fooled into buying goods or a service. We all have the rite to travel, some people pay a price for that because they need help and guidance in case something should happen to them while travelling. I'm fine with being able to look after myself and manage my own personal conveyance because I've paid for it in full. Why would you give ownership of something to another person. Thats silly. Unless you hold the original title of manufacture and return your dvla registration plates then you do not legally own that vehicle. Again just because you believe you do, does not make it a fact. How can a person prove they legally own a vehicle ?

@irigouis88 what is the legal definition of " licence " Sorry to say but your road tax does not go into building or maintenance or the road network. Thats what you have been led to believe but its a lie. I dont need permission from any person or group todo anything, some people need guidance so they are welcome to joining that club. As I have personally paid for my own transport I do not wish to give a government ownership of that so in return they give me a privilege. Unless you hold the original title of manufacture that you car was sold with from the factory then legally you don't own it.

@irigouis88 forgot to add, yes people stick to driving rules, not law. Its not called road traffic law 👍

@@evelghostrider Rubbish ! Firstly , when you sign your driving licence you agree to the Road Traffic Act . Of course we own our vehicles - that is proven by the receipts we get when we purchase them ; nothing at all to do with registration which is a separate matter entirely . My cars are all paid for in full and i have good title to all of them ; whether they are registered in this country or overseas . A rite is a religious or other ceremony which is enacted by the followers ; methinks you were trying to write right . These are three entirely different words which sound exactly the same , each with their own distinct meaning .

@@derekheeps1244 your receipt proves you bought the vehicle, it is not proof of ownership 👍 Would you like to have another think about it... Legally a receipt is proof of purchase not ownership. You need the original title of manufacture to prove ownership. Think about it some more 👍

I believe that local Councils can set the speed limit for roads in their area. Any change is notified by a notice affixed to a nearby lamp post or communicated through a local bulletin or newsletter. Where I live, there was a temporary change to 20mph through the village (I seem to be the only person who keeps to it!) - it was implemented so pedestrians on the narrow footpaths could walk in the road to keep socially distanced during Covid restrictions. They said last year that they were going to apply to make it permanent.

NIP is the first you'll hear about it.... Got one five days ago that I'm not looking forward too =(

The problem is any vehicle tracker is not home office type approved.

Of course it was!

@@24694104 copper.

😂

They are prosecuted if they are caught speeding but if there is an emergency they are responding to. All of the details will be logged so it will get overturned if they were responding to an emergency

In the UK...totally opposite

@irigouis88 the roads are not public. This is not a republic. They are the property of the Queen. That is why she does not need a licence.

@irigouis88 rubbish, they are a public place, but not owned by the public. My drive is a public place, but not owned by the public. I can can control or withdraw your use of it. Your constitutional argument does not make this a republic.

@irigouis88 you speak of who pays not who owns as for the rest "What A Lot of SHIT YOU Do Speak!"

They are cash cows in uk too.. they hide around corners where it goes from 40 to 30 and get people slowing down.. or over the brow of a hill as people set off from traffic lights getting up speed. I bet 99% of tickets are people doing 35 which in my eyes isn't speeding.. and if people say it is speeding then I say this.. check the difference in stopping distance from a car back when the 30mph limit was introduced on a specific road and compare it to a modern car..

The NIP goes to the company secretary or transport manager who has the responsibility to have sufficient processes in place to identify a driver.

@@pauldavison7105 Spot on.

Very common claim by small companies. Failing to nominate summons for the company secretary is the likely outcome.

All the evidence will be released to the defence if you decide to go to court with it. The offer of a fixed penalty is made to save you having to attend court (and waste the court's time on minor piffle). It is up to you whether you wish to take advantage of that or not.

Sounds like someone cloned your car

@@namugriff Yep. They probably cloned another car, shortly after the accident.

cloned. Happened to my colleague and she had to get a letter from her workplace to prove she wasn't driving

What did u do

yes, you can kill people and get away with it, but lie to the law and they will have you !

A broken system and we're the tax slave class. Just look at what politicians get away with.

the speeding is a civil matter lying is perverting the course of justice a criminal matter chuck the notice in the bin... end off.

@@martinsewell2015 Surely that’s only if you accept a fixed penalty notice?

@@chrisb4009 no court case will take place without the crown being certain of the correct person being held responsible hence ejits who fill out others details on the request to contract get a visit with the crown court judge as perverting the course of justice is a very seriouse matter and not one the lower courts deal with where as if the notice is in the bin they are not certain who was the person driving the car as any body can be insured to drive any car and thats the reality of the request to contract....

It's specifically addressed by UK law, so not a defence tactic that would work.

You may well be looking at a ban - get a barrister!

@@Conr3der I got a 2 week driving disqualification. License was kept, thankfully and a £320 fine. So a great outcome 😁

Yes - nowt to worry about. 1/ You may have been travelling over the speed limit but under the threshold they were using on that day. 2/ Cameras will often still flash even if not actually enforcing, so as to get people letterbox-watching (as you have been) for a couple of weeks and remain mindful to slow down.

Or you could just go apply to work for the police least you'll get paid

the limit has to be set somewhere think it is 10% + 3 mph but at the discretion of rhe officer

@@onetech3984 being a road safety volunteer support by police we have to record vehicles driving 35mph in a 30mph zone and 46mph in a 40mph zone. We recorded 500 speeders in our village

@@onetech3984 The ACPO guideline is 10% + 2mph for the threshold , most forces work around this level , but speeding remains an absolute offence and even 1mph over the limit ‘could’ be prosecuted . Parts of Wales are known to have a zero tolerance approach , as does the former Dumfries & Galloway district of Police Scotland , with the southern end of the M74 , and the entire length of the A75 being strictly enforced . Also be aware , we do not offer speed awareness courses here in Scotland : all offences are dealt with either by conditional offer of fixed penalty or by court , depending on severity of the offence .

@@beaulieuonnp593 well done 👏

How accurate are speed cameras? What is their uncertainty of measurement? How often are they calibrated? Are they traceable to National Standards? What is the accuracy of a car speedo? I mention this because every technical measuring device has a level of accuracy and uncertainty, as defined within its specification. ( As example a speedo might have an uncertainty of measurement of plus or minus 5% of its full scale, that might be 120mph. Thus the speed at 30 mph could be in the margin of +/- 6mph. I doubt these factors are never taken into account with speed fines?

many LGV drivers drive on their limiters , where the speed limits don't conflict .

You would be prosecuted for 'perverting the course of justice' (which often results in prison).

that's an interesting point

Car speedos under read anyway!