This was so fun to watch, thank you for your video! Caverna is a long time favorite game of mine, so I've been excitedly waiting for this video in your Uwe series! Best line was "imagine being 7th" 😂 I had to pause to get out my laughter
The one time I played this, I totally ignored exploring, whilst the other two players battled over the exploration spots. It left me free to do whatever I wished in farming, and building stuff, and I won by quite a margin - I managed to get 46 points alone in Parlours, Storages and Chambers. It seemed to me that you almost need to match what the other players are going for to keep it balanced (farming or exploration), but I probably need to play it more than that one time to figure that out properly 😅
I would definitely hunt this game (the games I need to hunt down is so, so long now and it's entirely your fault :P ). For sure, there is ridiculous first player advantage. I mean Naveen was flushed with resources all the time because of it. Is it always like that? Thank for making me love Euro . Big love!
@@terrytoriq haha no, I (Monique) did a bad job with timing when to take first player. Naveen took resources at opportune times. HAPPY BIRTHDAY BTW!!! Hope your day is super special =)
Love that you’re doing these series. I know it’s a lot of time/effort, but we’re really enjoying them. Keep up the great content! You guys are the best!
Love this game! The Forgotten Folk is probably my favourite expansion. We always play with that one, it’s neat to be able to choose your own species and the special powers that come with them are interesting.
Really enjoy Caverna whenever I get it to the table. One aspect of the design is that multiple strategies are all viable. Grabbing lots of dwarves, going heavy for mines, focus on exploration, focus on animals or food production. My first game, I won a 3 player where I avoided exploring and got a bonus room for having no weapons. Really good design!
You won and you avoided exploring?!?! Amazing! The fact that it doesn't seem like there's a main dominant strategy is great. You just have to know when to pivot and when to exploring paths that your opponents are neglecting. It's so great
Caverna! Agricola felt like work, it was so restrictive. Caverna feels open and fun for me. We play it only about 3 or 4 times a year, often back-to-back in a single session. I have never won this game, but I still love it. We sometimes play with the Halflings mini-expansion, which changes things up a bit. Glass Road was completely overshadowed by Caverna and the Caverna vs Agricola thing. Glass Road has often been dismissed, so I was pleasantly surprised that it was recently republished. I enjoy Glass Road a lot but it’s in a different class than Caverna.
Yeah that is a great thing about the game. We often have a hard time knowing what the better strategy to pivot to is haha, but it's a great part of the game. Glad to hear you enjoy it too!
Great playthrough, was super interesting to see the differences and similarities between Caverna and Agricola! Heading to watch the Fields of Arle Video now!
This was one of the first heavy games I bought when I was getting into the hobby so it will always have a special place in my collection. I love the sense of progression it gives you and the need to focus on balance (you have to do a bit of everything because of the negative points) while having one or 2 key scoring tiles to go after.
Truly cannot wait for this series to continue three of my Favorite Uwe’s are Feast for Odin, Reykholt and Nusfjord. Keep up the great work absolutely loving the channel.
I remember playing it 6 player many years ago. It was long but still fun. Only tips are your usual - get lots of dwarves and go on lots of adventures, then build high value dwellings. I typically don't bother with crops.
Wow, what a great game! I recently bought feast for Odin, after watching your playthrough. Absolutely love it! Now I have to keep my eye out for caverna as well 😅😂
What a good game and playthrough. I just asked about it in your Le Havre video a few days ago and here it is. Looking forward to the rest of the series.
I always try to get a tile that makes the feeding easier-I like the beer parlor, the tile that decreases food needed for every donkey in the mines, or even the one that lets you feed a dwarf with stone or ore. The more dwarves the better, but plan for placement so you can use the state parlor. I love Caverna!
Yeah getting your food engine going early seems like a good first priority. The beer parlor sounds interesting but I don't think either of us have ever tried that strategy! We'll have to see about that tile next time
Finally! Was waiting all day yesterday on this playthrough and as a swedish person I thought the playthrough should come late yesterday but no. Its publish on the morning of the 27th. But hey. I can watch this then I ate breakfast!
Ha ha yeah I was in the same position yesterday, waiting from Denmark. I sprained my ankle so was looking forward to a nice long video to distract me, and now I have it today!
Your playthrough made me buy this game, i already have Agricola and all other games from Uwe besides Odin but i dont think one is better than the other but just different, i enjoy all Uwe games to be honest and you can see what game borrowed tile/cards/strategy etc from each other. I love the games so much that i rotate them playing solo as well and i think if you are also a solo player Uwe games are great too. Thank you for all the great video's and the Uwe series.
i just learned Caverna a couple of weeks ago. I have scored in the 90s and regularly score in the 80's after three games of just learning how everything works. I felt the same way about getting extra dwarfs but they are worth it. One thing is the rubies you want to use them specially early, they can get you early vegetables to sow or early cows to breed.
Wow 80s and 90s! Amazing. Yea, spending rubies is one of those things we need to figure out strategically. Using them early makes total sense for early access to key resources! Thank you
@@paulstaker8861 I do that with the sheep but it still take at least to the second half of the game to pull it off. I don't know how to pull it off with cows since they are a lot harder to get early.
I just ❤ to watch you play games together! Please, Monique, can you muster a solo playthrough of Caverna some day? Would love to see it played rhst way... Please keep up the great work 👍
Really wanna try Caverna, it looks like it might be more my speed than Agricola, which was just a little too restrictive for me, though I can see what people love about it. Though I must say my favorite part of this whole video was Monique's voice squeaking when she says, "AND THEN YOU HAVE TO FEED THE BABY!" XD
Great video! Seems like going first is a big advantage since it stays like that until using an action, and you don't even get that extra food as a second
Yeeess Ive been waiting for you guys to play this one :) caverna is one of my favorite games not just from Uwe but from all. I hope you eventually get to a Tascini series of games ;) Regarding the playthrough I will only comment on how Slash and burn was a better Last option for Naveen. it would have been a net diferente of +4 points. Seeing as he only went on those Last expeditions for the cows and sow...with Slash and burn he would have planted his crops as he wanted whilr negating. 2 negative points with the forest tile and even gaining the boar. now regardimg the cows seeimg that he had more than enough food he should have bought 2 with the rubíes and food... the points he gained from those rubíes he Still would have gotten them from the cows but since the cows breed it would have meant 1 extra point. My best score is 89. I have never been able to past that. lol
Great video as always and really enjoying your journey through Uwe. Caverna is the one for me. It is just fun to play, all these options and things to do, where Agricola feels like work. Also, at the end of the game looking at all the players boards and seeing all the stuff is just nice.
That box insert looks like, or is very similar to, the one I use from Broken Token. Works great for holding all the pieces and makes set up and take down so much easier. This was my first Uwe game, though I've since played quite a few of his others. Good stuff.
Great playthrough guys! We bought Caverna first a couple of years ago and liked it well enough (well I liked it more than my partner :) ) but then grabbed Agricola last year at a trade and well.... we both unanimously voted for Agricola :) We prefer the tight game that Agricola offers and the thought you have to put in your strategy and synergizing your cards to make the best engine possible..! Still Caverna is a great game though! We always went for as many workers as we could, and usually built a dwelling that helped with feeding early enough... One strategy I wanted to try but didn't before we traded it away was built the dwelling that allows you to trade weapons for food early in the game so as to take care of food for a few rounds and then built the peace room (or sth like that) that gives points for having no workers with weapons... Anyway again great playthrough, looking forward to the next ones! Thanks!!
Ahh soo interesting to hear your thoughts! Trading away a strong weapon early for several harvests worth of feedings seems REALLY great. It feels scary potentially losing a weapon lol, but adventuring isn't everything. We'll have to try that next time. Thanks so much!
Great watching this being played again. Got it when first came out and played loads, but it’s slipped off the Playlist. Probably play through solo a couple of times to refresh myself of the rules. Thank you for the play throughs.
That was so fun to watch, can you do a play through with the expansion? (I liked how you did the similarly with architects of the west kingdom) I really love your play throughs. Keep having fun
Was really looking forward to this playthrough and it didn’t disappoint! I love both Agricola and Caverna, potentially evenly but maybe with a slight advantage to Caverna. They’re both the only games I have as 10/10s currently. The card system in Agricola is fantastic and gives it more variability, replyability, and perhaps depth, but the worker placement/farming system in Caverna is more robust and the furnishings really set it over the top for me. The first Caverna expansion is also a really nice change of pace (albeit not essentially) and the upcoming expansion looks super interesting as well. It’s hard to say what a good strategy is in Caverna because it depends on what other players are going. Basically you want to figure out what they are undervaluing. But some heuristics from my experience (I average around 100 points in a 3-5 player game): -Try to grow first and outpace your opponents in this department. -Take rubies whenever 3 or more are available, sometimes even two. They’re just so useful and flexible. -The furnishings that give food for your current sheep or cows and also endgame points for either sheep or cows are huge (weaving and milking parlors), and so I often try to mass one of the two animal types along with whatever else I’m doing and then get one of the parlors. They can feed you for an entire harvest later in the game and grant 10+ endgame points easily. -I usually have 30 or more coins at the end from prioritizing the action spaces that give them (including ore trading toward end) and taking them on adventures whenever possible. -While many furnishings are very good, there are usually enough good ones available that it’s not worth sacrificing too much to get a specific one, unless your game plan really depends on it. On this note, the working cave and slaughtering cave are very good to get early to help feeding. -I often find the person who blacksmiths a large weapon (7 or 8) first has a huge advantage since in the they’re quickly able to furnish, take cows, build dwellings/pastures for discounts, etc. which are massive in the midgame, and also in the late game they basically print points off sowing, taking tiles, and breeding from their adventures. -I've noticed that newer players, at least in my group, seem to over-prioritize crops so I often don't do it as much. When farming is difficult to do, going for ore/ruby mines, a specific type of animal (sheep or cows), and adventuring does really well. Food can be difficult early on with this plan but once you get the engine going you're unstoppable later in the game because you have excess ore to trade in once that action spot comes out, you get extra rubies from taking the ruby spaces, you have all the food you need from adventuring/rubies/animals, and have a boatload of points from your mines, animals, bonus furnishing points (from your adventures), and gold coins.
Wow, thank you SOOOO much for these thoughtful strategy tips. 100 points!! Sounds like such a far away goal for us haha but in reading these tips, I can see where a lot of our weaknesses are coming from. It always feels bad to take resources when there are only 2 or 3 on the space, but rubies are quite valuable/useful so it really was a shame when we let that build up. Thanks again, we will try to implement these next time.
@@BeforeYouPlay No problem! I'm by no means an expert at the game but hope you found some of that helpful :). Of course your points are going to depend a bit on player count and how good the other players are, too.
We played 3 games of Caverna and sold it. It is a good game that was definitely not made for us. For us it felt very solitary (2 players), very easy to feed workers, and the ammount of options + the maintenance between turns + the static setup of the cave tiles (always the same tiles) made us not enjoy the game. That is funny because I love Agricola and how tight and harder it is to feed people, I also like the to have a smaller scope to focus on what I am gonna do on my farm and the more variability with the cards. A Feast for Odin and Le Havre are my favorite Uwe games, but Agricola is very close to them, Caverna I have no interest to play anymore. I love to see you guys playing, keep up the good work!
Thank you for sharing your perspective! It can feel solitaire in a 2-P game when you’re both deep into planning your own farms and definitely doesn’t have the pressure of Agricola. We are looking forward to AFFO! Thanks so much.
I find getting the fifth or six dwarves only make sense if you have the broom chamber closer to the end of the game. Another viable strategy is if you get your food engine going and getting discounts from furnishing tiles, it makes sense to get the 5th dwarf before round 10? and send them to exploration (using rubies to skip turn orders) and you can get some serious points
Thank you for the video! I definitely need to give Caverna a try. I never really loved Agricola because it's one of those games where I feel like there is one way to play, so this having a bit more options and room to choose sounds like a positive step at least for me.
Agricola 💚 for life. Played 1600+ times (including app plays) - magic of Agricola is in countless number of cards! I’m playing Agricola since 2008 and it’s never boring for me never repetitive.
Being aware of the furnishing tiles is a bit of a problem for me as I am near sighted and print on them is small. But last time we played everyone got their smart phones out about photographed the display. That really helped. I think it’s important to do some Adventuring if only to block those spaces to prevent other players from advancing those skills. When we have 5 players show up on game night this is one we’ll often pull out.
On BGG there are player aids you can download that summarize all of the furnishing tiles on a single sheet of paper. I find that really helps out, especially with larger player counts where some people are really far from the furnishing tile market.
I love Caverna (still need to play Agricola). The Office Room is one of my favorite furnishings. I think 4 is probably my sweet spot for dwarves, one of my friends ALWAYS goes for the 6th dwarf, and he'll win every now and then, but it doesn't seem worth it to me. He just loves getting extra workers in worker placement games though, and even when he loses he has fun with all those actions. I think the easiest way you could improve your scores is to target a couple of the yellow furnishings by round 4 or so. That gives you a bit of time to feel out how each other is playing the game, and see which of them will work best for your strategy that time. I'll usually have two of them that I want to build and another one or two that I'll try to grab as well based on my tactical play in the later rounds.
Targeting a few yellow furnishings early seems like a really good strategy, and totally agree on the 6th dwarf. That sounds like sooooo much work but that's great that he just enjoys taking the extra actions haha. That does seem more fun in the end even if you don't win.
After trying them both many times, while the cards switch up the experience a lot, my group strongly prefers Caverna over Agricola. The sense of accomplishment is more satisfying and the game overall feels more rewarding. At the end of the game, win or lose we enjoy the play. With Agricola, a lot of times its just not... fun. We love our heavy euros with several Lacerda's in our top tens and we LOVE TTA: A new story. Those games are heavy and potentially more punishing but at the end of the day, they still seem super fun. Agricola does not give the same feeling. Caverna though, always feels fun at the very least.
Haha that’s totally fair. The restrictive nature of Agricola can make it feel not fun for sure. We really need to play TTA! Thanks for putting that on our radar
Nice playthrough and review, very helpful. Now, most folks either own one of them but have played both. Wanted to know how the 2P versions of Caverna : Cave vs Cave and Agricola : All creatures big and small are. Also how good are the solo and 2P for the Caverna : The Cave farmers. Just to understand which version to go for. And will it be good to get 2P version of Caverna and get the full version of Agricola. So that I can have both the classics.
I love, love, love this game, but the big problem with it is the sheer number of rooms, especially if you get the expansions, all doing their own thing. They take up a lot of space and without a good reference guide (which there are on BGG), you spend a lot of time going back and forth looking at the room tiles.
Hey guys, great video love the game got it myself. Just wanted to ask about the room tile tray your have (48min mark) where did you get this from I would like to purchase one for myself ?
Caverna looks delightful. Unfortunately, my husband isn't super these heavy beige euros, so I'll need to find someone in my friend group who's down to play this.
Never played this or Agricola. Initially interested in Agricola more, something about the deck of cards you use and the loads of cards in general making all those combinations peeks my interest. Sure there are a load of those tiles in Caverna and learning them all, focusing on 3-4 to build towards and working backward from that is also a neat idea I suppose, but Caverna to me seems like half of Agricola was cut off and they put the Caverna cave part in and its just those tiles really that go there and yeah animals can sneak in but if feels and looks like two different ideas pushed together while Agricola is just farming and the simplicity of just that keeps the entire thing together for me. Not sure if how it looks in my head came out well here but I'd definitely play Caverna and who knows maybe that expansion would make it just a bit more interesting to warrant both games, but my plan is to get the Agricola big box. Maybe by the time I get to play Caverna it's 15th anniversary comes out and I can snag that big box haha (wallet...sweating...crying...)
hahaha Wallet sweating! Yeah, these anniversary editions are so nice. Caverna really is sort of like 2 different things pushed together, with just a few things that bridge the two - mainly the furnishing tiles. It's quite a different experience from Agricola. We'd be curious to hear what your thoughts are if/when you get to try either game!
@@BeforeYouPlay Nice at times yes, not practical and not efficient sometimes imo but that is another topic. Yeah I'll let you know about Agricola, but I hit my self made spending budget already for this year so for my specific copy sometime 2023, who knows about a wild copy, not sure anyone in my game group plays it anymore. And Caverna...multiple that time by x b/c who knows.
@@BeforeYouPlay I played Agricola!! 1/16/23, 4p (3 new), with Farmers of the moore ex. Honestly the ex seemed not necessary to me, just one extra thing you have to worry about and I don't mind worry about feeding the fam, but throw in heating the home and clearing the land, sure thematic, but idk, not opposed to playing with it. The special action cards are nice to snag, but that is so small not sure it is worth it. Agricola vanilla is great and I ordered the anniversary ed. I know there were some typos, the organizer is a joke, and the lack of items included like FotM, 5-6p, C & D decks, the minis and promo decks, but I know the box will come in handy storing everything once the publisher releases that extra content, probably for another $100 in 2024 or whatever.
@@robertcrist6059 Ahhh how exciting!! That's interesting to hear that the expansion wasn't entirely necessary. We haven't tried it yet, but base game Agricola seems like plenty to discover on its own! We are potentially getting the anniversary edition too, so we'll see how it goes. We're both so glad you enjoyed it!! Thank you for taking the time to share your experience with us ☺
The only thing I think I would change about Caverna is that the beggar tokens reduce your score instead of your coins. It's so counterintuitive to have in your mind that you can still do well if you in theory starve out your dwarves constantly, but make it up in non-coin points. Even if I don't care for coins, I always feed my guys because I hate getting the beggar tokens but also I just feel like a sucker. Idk, maybe if you wanna do really well you still need coins, but it's just super weird.
I think you misunderstand the rules a little. Everything scores in gold points. so if you had 3 coins and 2 beggar tokens (-3 gold points each)you would end up with -3 gold points. which still reduces your score. you don't get to ignore the difference. Open spaces also award negative gold points. coins = gold points. beggar tokens reduce gold points. it's all the same.
@@Jindorek Believe me I checked several times. Gold (coin token) and points (shield icon) are not the same. Points can be negative, gold cannot. Gold are converted to points at the end of the game at a 1:1 rate after being deducted by beggar tokens. Also in Agricola, beggar tokens clearly deduct points indicated by shield icon. No reason Caverna couldn't do the same (have shield icon instead of coin) if it intended to work like you said.
I’ve had this game in my collection for 2 years and it’s still unopened because I think it would overwhelm most of my friends. Still hoping to get it played one day lol.
Any chances for playthrough of Agricola with Farmers of the Moor in the future? It gives you more options (more wood alternatives!) and reduces the pressure a bit ;)
It (kind of) pushes Agricola a bit towards Caverna, but adds its own challenges (spatial puzzle, home heating, timing of extra actions from cards). I know your gaming schedule is super busy, but Farmers is one of the best euro game expansions out there ;). I would love to see Caverna + Agricola with expansions on this channel, at the conclusion of the Uwe's reviews ;). Love you guys, take care!
I've heard sooo many good things about Mage Knight solo! I didn't realize it was a Vlada game! We really enjoy his designs so maybe one day if we're able to pick up a copy
Looking quickly at the comments, I feel my opinion isn't the general consensus, in that there are so many rules and bits and pieces to be aware of, the game leaves me exhausted. I want to enjoy it but it's more work than fun. To be fair, however, as I get older I realise I love playing games but I'm actually not very good at them.......
That’s a very fair opinion! It really is a lot of rules overhead and many little things to keep in mind. We always struggle with the rules for animal placement for example, and this game leaves us both frozen at various times not knowing what to do next. It’s a bit of a sandbox so we definitely understand what you mean
@@BeforeYouPlay I have a similar complex relationship with Le Havre and Feast for Odin......mmmm, maybe me and Mr Rosenberg don't get on. Though I so want to. I'm inspired to give Caverna another go. Thanks both.🤣
Getting 5th dwarf is good only if you heavily focus on either on expeditions or dwellings. Never get 5th dwarf if you are not entirely focused on 1 direction of play.
Hey y'all. Have enjoyed your UR vids, but have you played/reviewed Fields of Arle? It definitely interests me as an expansive & thematic worker placement game, but designed for two players (rare). I'll keep a look out, since I always enjoy your content.
I’m actually curious about the Klingon subtitles if someone could answer. Do y’all reread the rules Immediately after recording the video and before releasing it to put the mistakes in the subtitles or how does the Klingon subtitles work?
It’s a little bit of both actually. Monique will reread bits of the rulebook as she’s editing whenever she feels like something might not be correct. Otherwise, people in the community usually catch our mistakes and provide timestamps for us, and we’ll just add them to the subtitles after-the-fact
I would LOVE to try this game, but feel my spouse would keel over from AP with the numerous decisions and possibilities. He has to min-max every move. Not me, I play strategically, but also intuitively. This seems like the ONLY Rosenberg game I could get into. All Creatures failed for me because it was too easy to do well and win--regardless of what my spouse did with his farm.
Was coming here to say these exact same two things. Strong preference for Agricola, primarily because the cards provide more focus than the giant board of tiles. I also find the dwarf expedition action in Caverna really bogs down the flow. Also, Fields of Arle is fantastic, and I second the recommendation for the expansion.
SPOILER if you care about the playthrough. Well done Naveen ! Very fun video with good explanation all the way through, thanks ! Will you play the expansion in the future ?
Yeah, there are different action space boards that you play with depending on player count. I believe there's even an "imitation" space that lets you copy another action
@@BeforeYouPlay Ohh yes I discovered that the game was released on BGA a few days ago and in my 4 player games the spaces are already different and include the imitation space!
I prefer Agricola, but I wouldn't mind if some aspects of Caverna were in Agricola, like the caved zone with gems or the expeditions. I don't like the scoring of animals and veggies in Caverna or all the options that you have, I feel really lost in my strategy!
Like many people, I like this better than Agricola because it feels much free-er and open. That said, I still don't like it as much as some other Uwe games (esp. AFFO, which w/Norwegians is my favorite game of all time).
Yeah, that's fair! We are looking forward to the next one, Fields of Arle, because we know that's another one that people really love. AFFO is fantastic
