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Caverna: The Cave Farmers | Rahdo's Final Thoughts 

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Help Rahdo Run: patreon.com/rahdo ❤️ Code of conduct: conduct.rahdo.com 🙂 And now...
A video outlining gameplay for the boardgame Caverna: The Cave Farmers. For more game info, www.boardgamegeek.com/boardgame/102794/caverna-the-cave-farmers
Part I: Gameplay Runthrough
ru-vid.com/video/%D0%B2%D0%B8%D0%B4%D0%B5%D0%BE-BI6HN8F9dGI.html
Part II: Extended Gameplay
ru-vid.com/video/%D0%B2%D0%B8%D0%B4%D0%B5%D0%BE-Oi23V4vF3L8.html
Part III: Final Thoughts
ru-vid.com/video/%D0%B2%D0%B8%D0%B4%D0%B5%D0%BE-rAqCnMVEVWI.html

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31 окт 2013

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Комментарии : 125   
@logicguy37
@logicguy37 10 лет назад
I have both Agricola and Caverna. I think they both feel very different. However Rahdo, I don't think it's very fair for you to say in Jen's Top 10 video (I believe) that Caverna has nothing on Agricola. They are both very different. Agricola is a much tighter game. Caverna IMO is much more open ended, steamlined, and less punishing. So what if Caverna doesn't have the cards like Agricola? I don't need cards to essentially point out with a neon sign what I should do. I like the open ended nature of Caverna where it's like BAM, here's all the options, have fun! I've won many games of Agricola by barely playing any, if no cards at all. And I get asked about it, and I'll say either "well my cards just weren't all that great" or "yes I could have used them but in order to get a good synergy/result out of them, it just wouldn't be all that fun". I guess that's just a personal opinion of mine. Guess what I'm getting at is, I don't think in these somewhat sandbox games, that cards or end game goals should define how you play. I like how in Caverna you can choose what route you want to go, and buy buildings and/or accommodate to fit that strategy. In Agricola, those cards in someway, almost seem essential right from the beginning if you want to win, but that may not be what I want to do. They both fill their own different slots. I still play Agricola and love it to death and will teach it to people first before showing them Caverna. They are just different games, however, my personal favorite is Caverna.
@silverfang6668
@silverfang6668 9 лет назад
We have Agricola & Caverna in our collection and I must admit that we liked Agricola over Caverna for the reasons you mentioned. However, we tried playing Caverna with the "Rahdo End Tile Draft" variant, and now Caverna has replaced Agricola for us. For a lighter, quicker game, though, we do enjoy All Creatures Great & Small.
@ConlangKrishna
@ConlangKrishna 10 лет назад
I've played Caverna several times in solo mode, and about ten times with two persons. I must say I do not have the impression that there is too many room tiles. We pretty quickly adapted to the big choice, as one will probably not build more than three of them in a single game. There might even be games, where you do not build any of them, but simply use all the other nice actions. On the other hand I must say that the game usually plays tougher than it looks. It is a complex tactical/strategic game, you will not be able to do all you wanted, and the scoring phase can bring some surprises at the end of the game. After these many plays I still have the feeling there is a lot to discover in this game, and that will make me play it many more times.
@AlexCoulombeDesign
@AlexCoulombeDesign 10 лет назад
It always makes me happy when you and Tom have different opinions.
@paulstaker8861
@paulstaker8861 2 года назад
I like all the tiles available at the start. It gives u a lot of freedom & provides another avenue for player interaction. As for long-term strategy, u can always get 1 or 2 of those scoring tiles early to prevent them from being stolen later. The assurance of their ownership is a tangible advantage.
@KNOCKEMout
@KNOCKEMout 10 лет назад
My Caverna is on it's way! I love the way you explain your gameplay with Ghost Stories and i just finished watching your Caverna series just wish i have my copy of Caverna now. Thanks Rahdo!
@ambuscader
@ambuscader 6 лет назад
I played this 20+ times now. Caverna is all about adopting and changing long term strategy along the way. I think that is intentional. So it is difference from Agricola. Also, once you decided your long term strategy (your combos), if you are the first player to buy the first room in the combo, it usually prevent the other player (if they know what they are doing) to snatch the subsequent room to mess up your strategy. Because it usually makes the other player less efficient as well (because they do not have the first room). So the other player would mess you up and herself as well and give the rest of players an advantage. Often, it is better for them to pick a different strategy. And this is why I love Caverna so much, because there are always good options for you to pick. ( I have never played 6-7 players, so it may get tighter).
@jeffrhind175
@jeffrhind175 10 лет назад
Richard, thanks for shooting this. I have never played Agricola. I have seen it and wasn't turned on by it. After watching your Caverna video, I am hooked and want to go out and drop the C-note to acquire this. Thank you sir.
@Garethadvertiser
@Garethadvertiser 10 лет назад
Great video Richard. I've not played Agricola and having picked up a copy of Caverna this week, I found learning the rules a bit difficult. Having watched your videos I've played through a few solo turns of my own and really picked it up.
@rahdo
@rahdo 10 лет назад
Caverna is still pretty tense, at least so far. The harvest at the end of (almost) every turn really turns the pressure on, though TBH on the whole I think Agricola is tougher to stay afloat... Caverna is a bit more forgiving.
@GPlewright
@GPlewright 10 лет назад
Having the tiles available at the start of the game reminds me of Puerto Rico where the buildings are all available. If you like Puerto Rico I can see that this element would not be a negative for everyone. Some gamers would like the ability to mess around with variants of a similar strategy everytime they play.
@davedogge2280
@davedogge2280 8 лет назад
You and me sir are very similar in profession and board game obsessions. I can see your mind working and you're very fluid in explaining the mechanics. This game is rated very highly on boardgamegeek and in general.
@Loveemtrees
@Loveemtrees 10 лет назад
Nice runthrough. I played the game with 3 players and I really loved it. For me it even beats Agricula. I like how you got ALL the options at start and you create a strategy but then somebody buys the tile you needed for your strategy, so you have to adapt. Really challenging and fun.
@Penchwintan33
@Penchwintan33 2 года назад
I just bought Caverna and have only done a playthrough on my own (haven't played yet with friends), but my first surprise when setting up was that there was only one tile for each room. I would love to have enough tiles for each room for every player, and for there to be a rule that you can only build each room once (apart from the dwellings of course). To me that would take away the pressure of racing against others for particular rooms. But I guess that is part of the strategy/challenge of the game.
@caseyf8236
@caseyf8236 9 лет назад
I like more variability in the set up too. One thing that we have done just for some extra variability is not use all the dwelling tiles. We will pick some of the tiles and leave them out of the game (at random) We have even played where we start with only a few tiles and add tiles in each round (2,3,4) like how eclipse plays. At the same time, I actually like what you don't like in this video. Not having a set strategy from minute one of the game adds a lot of freedom and fluidity that I value greatly. I love being able and encourage to change strategies mid game based on how things are going instead of simply doing what I planned on doing poorly when things start to go not as planned. If that makes any sense, anyway, as always thanks for the videos.
@TeChNoWC7
@TeChNoWC7 7 лет назад
I really don't find the furnishings complicated or overwhelming at all. It takes like a minute to scan through and get a general idea of what they all do.
@otterbot
@otterbot 10 лет назад
GREAT comment about how cards exist in a different game space than tiles, Richard. Your 'first impressions' are a really deep and thoughtful take on the differences between the two games (GRIC vs. CAVE). I know you're known for the incredible enthusiasm in your videos, but dammit the insight you're giving is gold! Kudos. Best video review of the year.
@freddieyu
@freddieyu 10 лет назад
Thanks for the video again! I totally agree with your comment regarding the cards in Agricola in comparison with the building tiles. One of the highlights in Agricola for me is the card draft. However, this IS a different game after all. And the components are fantastic!
@rahdo
@rahdo 10 лет назад
i did put a link in the video itself, but i'll add it to the show notes too :)
@MiLSyeah
@MiLSyeah 10 лет назад
Hi Rahdo. I haven't ever played Agricola or Caverna and after watching and listening to a few reviews here and there, I think I'm going to get Caverna. I feel like I actually like the fact that everything is available to everyone, it spices things up a bit. You build toward a strategy and then BAM, your tile is gone. That looks like fun to me. And at least there is no luck of the draw. The difference in rating you gave to both is astonishing (9.95 vs 7.493). Anyway, thank you for all your reviews. Now I want Caverna, Terra Mystica (that you haven't rated on BGG) and Nations !! And so many others... Thanks again !!
@ericaschaidt8588
@ericaschaidt8588 6 лет назад
Yannick Manwaring I love Rahdo's reviews and the effort he puts into his videos and channel. I've found so many new games thru his channel that I may otherwise never have had the opportunity to play. My game collection has increased significantly since I started watching his videos, and my game wish list is even bigger! :)
@chanm01
@chanm01 10 лет назад
Fantastic runthrough. Really insightful first impressions. That Caverna so fundamentally changes the way players must approach the strategy of the game indicates, to me at least, that it was never designed to replace Agricola. Certainly no more than ACBCS was meant to replace Agricola. I really think the more relevant question is whether Caverna is different enough from Agricola to justify a purchase, especially at it's price point.
@tokyoboardgamer4856
@tokyoboardgamer4856 9 лет назад
The variant proposed by Rahdo has been fleshed out! See my explanation here: ru-vid.com/video/%D0%B2%D0%B8%D0%B4%D0%B5%D0%BE-ONepUTisFzY.html or visit the boardgamegeek thread: boardgamegeek.com/thread/1128291/random-selection-goals-variant-variable-setup
@romankowalewski4290
@romankowalewski4290 10 лет назад
Everyone has been talking about how Caverna replaces Agricola. And where is the main aspect of Agricola unique cards and strategies based on them. With draft there is 0 luck involved and you can somewhat choose your direction in s game. I highly recommend draft mod btw. Now i know i'm not the only one on the "Agricola forever(or at least for now)" side. Great videos i can't believe i've never found them before. Keep up great job pls.
@ericaschaidt8588
@ericaschaidt8588 6 лет назад
Roman Kowalewski I am so happy I found this channel as well. Actually my friend found it when we were looking for a run through to help us with the rules for Dominant Species (yes I remember my first ever Rahdo video I saw). We played right along with Rahdo and it cleared up so much confusion for us. I became hooked on his videos and subsequently my gaming collection grew as I was introduced to games I may have never given a second thought to.
@king6dutch
@king6dutch 10 лет назад
I personally think that the fact that you cannot bank on being able to do exactly what you want for the end game offers the change that makes this game better than Agricola.
@MrTukitukitu
@MrTukitukitu 10 лет назад
Agree completely with your assessment of tiles vs cards well said
@AR5EHOLE
@AR5EHOLE 9 лет назад
Completely agree with everything you say, however personally I prefer having a choice between using tiles (Caverna) and using cards (Agricola). Dependant upon our mood, we would choose to play one or the other. If Caverna had cards there wouldn't be much to differentiate it from Agricola tbh. Also sometimes if your dealt a bad hand of cards (happens quite often) your limited to a basic strategy whereas having tiles your not relying upon the luck of the 'God of good hands'. That's why I have both Agricola and Caverna, I like both systems. Good review as always!
@KoutaFumihiko
@KoutaFumihiko 10 лет назад
An idea, after you do several plays and some of them with the advanced game you could make and upload another video about your final thoughts about this game. Hope you'll do or sth like that because I love the final thoughts part of your runthroughs and like you said this was more of a "first impressions" video. Greets and keep up the good work! your vids are awesome :D
@rahdo
@rahdo 10 лет назад
youtube has been really weird about links lately. well, i always have links to the other videos in the show notes too :)
@dominges297
@dominges297 9 лет назад
Hi Rahdo What U think about Caverna today? Agricola still is the one?
@FrankConradie
@FrankConradie 10 лет назад
That's why a draft is absolutely mandatory for experienced Agricola players.
@PhuKhan
@PhuKhan 10 лет назад
I love that they streamlined it and took the millions of cards out. We like Agricola but I think we will love this.
@Stephen-Fox
@Stephen-Fox 10 лет назад
Without playing it yet, and just based on your video, I think I'd prefer all tiles available at the front (But possibly with 2 tiles for 4-5 or 1 for 2-3), but with each game using a different subset of the all - I like the idea that I can try and figure out what my opponants are doing, and potentially take a tile to block them, in the same way I might block them with actions; I'm not keen on having the same things to choose from each time for my major strategy.
@rahdo
@rahdo 10 лет назад
yeah, i tend not to think of my videos as reviews at all. i'd be happy to to include opinions at all and just let the games speak for themselves :)
@DemonmachinE
@DemonmachinE 9 лет назад
My girlfriend and I jumped right into Advanced and in our first game we barely bothered with buildings because we just looked at them and had no idea what was good. We've played twice more since and in the 2nd game we dabbled a bit more, and then in the 3rd I went DEEP into buildings and ended up with a whopping 90 points (compared to the ~60ish scores we'd been getting the other games, and my girlfriend's score of 64 in the 3rd). The advanced game is awesome.
@buddylove1002
@buddylove1002 10 лет назад
Thanks, the link is not showing up in the video on my end, I tried 3 different browsers
@SirEtherealOne
@SirEtherealOne 10 лет назад
Personally, the advantage of having all of tiles available is that you react more to what other players are doing. If you are dealt a starting hand, then you will always be going down a certain path irrespective of everyone. I think that games will play out differently for the same reason games of chess play out differently; you will be reacting to what other players are doing. I think the added interaction here is the big benefit of having everything upfront even if a little overwhelming.
@GabrielConlledo
@GabrielConlledo 10 лет назад
Has anyone tried this just for the solo mode?
@harald851
@harald851 10 лет назад
If I haven't played or owned any of these two games (Agricola and Caverna), which one would you suggest I get? Thanks for the review!
@rahdo
@rahdo 10 лет назад
hmm, tough choice. caverna is definitely the easier game to play, but with more streamlined rules, and also a bit less punishing, so that might be something to consider? it also costs 2x as much :)
@jyoung10
@jyoung10 7 лет назад
It's been quite some time since I watched your run through of this. I would like to make a comment regarding your proposed variant that deals out endgame tiles for players to choose: The problem with that idea is that if you choose certain endgame tiles that steer your strategy in a specific direction, and then another player scuppers those plans by taking 1 or 2 tiles on the board you NEEDED to satisfy those endgame bonuses, then you're kinda stuck with a less than optimal result. I imagine that's why Uwe decided to keep the endgame tiles available in case that happens - so that you can make adjustments during the game. In Agricola, all of the strategy in the form of the cards belong to you, and nobody can steal them from you, so it's not an issue. I just think the design doesn't work for you and Jen. And I'd imagine A Feast for Odin, which looks to be a mash-up of Agricola/Fields of Arle/Caverna combined with his well-loved Patchwork may not work for you, either? Hmmm... do you wish Uwe would get back to his tighter, more restrictive designs?
@rahdo
@rahdo 7 лет назад
yup, we ultimately traded caverna away and just stuck with agricola, which we still love and which still provides so many surprises every time we play. and yeah, i guess new uwe just isn't for us... i'll be doing a runthrough of odin soon :)
@jyoung10
@jyoung10 7 лет назад
Thank you, sir - looking forward to it! Hope you have a good month while Jen's away. It's too bad we moved away from the PacNW - we enjoyed meeting Jen at that Thai restaurant and playing Glass Road with her 2-3 years ago.
@Cyberplex
@Cyberplex 10 лет назад
Thanks for the breakdown... was great for just 1 play =)
@bijanajamlou5152
@bijanajamlou5152 10 лет назад
I agree whit your suggested variant, it should be official. Boardgame design and videogame design are both processed by brains, and brains are best at processing 7+/-2 things at the same time. And its easier to form a strategy if you draft. Thanks for a nice review. It contains the streamlining i was hopping for.
@theindyjt
@theindyjt 9 лет назад
Sorry if this has been posted somewhere, Rahdo, but it's been over a year now. How have your opinions on Caverna changed, if at all?
@rahdo
@rahdo 9 лет назад
NaptownMVP yup i talked about it more here: ru-vid.com/video/%D0%B2%D0%B8%D0%B4%D0%B5%D0%BE-BOIBmeg1lQY.html :)
@theindyjt
@theindyjt 9 лет назад
Thanks!
@simonjrobinson
@simonjrobinson 6 лет назад
That is a shame about Caverna losing its position. Couldn't you have house rules whereby you take the 30 (or however many) tiles and choose only 20 of them at random to add the variable setup that you love about Agricola? (I love variable setup too)
@amosmj
@amosmj 9 лет назад
A year later, how do you feel about this relative to Agricola? Did you feel like you were ever able to get over the learning hump or is the slower feed of choices still preferable?
@rahdo
@rahdo 9 лет назад
***** ru-vid.com/video/%D0%B2%D0%B8%D0%B4%D0%B5%D0%BE-BOIBmeg1lQY.html :)
@markm5171
@markm5171 8 лет назад
Is there, maybe a fan-made version of this game where you can use the card system from Agricola while you play this game??
@Michael_Sean_OConnor
@Michael_Sean_OConnor 9 лет назад
The problem with the variant you propose is then you would'nt have any B-Plans. One of the strategies is to avoid your opponents making too good combos.
@justinrrizzo
@justinrrizzo 7 лет назад
Looking at Agric and Caverna. Can you list me a few Caverna rules you would retrofit into Agric.
@rahdo
@rahdo 7 лет назад
the main would be reducing the VP value of family members to make them a little less important
@sethvanorden1
@sethvanorden1 10 лет назад
Have you played Kemet? and how would you compare your issues with the tiles to the techs in Kemet? I enjoy all of the Techs avaliable in Kemet because then someone can steal your Tech which makes you always changing and adapting your strategy.
@rahdo
@rahdo 10 лет назад
haven't played kemet unfortunately, so can't say... :)
@trenthogan4212
@trenthogan4212 7 лет назад
Fantastic walkthrough but I disagree. I HATE having cards dealt to me and me having to be somewhat put on rails. The openness of having all of the tiles right in front of you makes this a nice big sandbox. Fantastic game and thanks for the amazing videos as usual.
@chadripp2373
@chadripp2373 10 лет назад
As a possible counter-point (i have not played it, so speculating), wouldn't the open availability of the end game goals allow for more flexibility and the ability to make mid-game adjustments. This would also be a kind of "fix" for the 3 players drafting a baking strategy and stalling each other out while an animal herder runs away with the game situation. Also after a few games I can see players just learning them the way we know the major improvements. I could be very wrong also. Thanks.
@reklasproductions
@reklasproductions 3 года назад
Have your thoughts changed after having played this more, or do you still hate that all the buildings are available? (It would probably be pretty unbalanced if it was Agricola style like you suggested as some tiles are way better than others and you might just get an unlucky draw and be screwed right off the start)
@rahdo
@rahdo 3 года назад
i talked about it a bit more when i rounded up the forgotten folk expansion a couple years ago: ru-vid.com/video/%D0%B2%D0%B8%D0%B4%D0%B5%D0%BE-dH160jqWs-8.html :)
@dabearz27
@dabearz27 10 лет назад
(cont) I think when Le Havre: The Inland Port came out, and everyone recognized that it was less like Le Havre and more like Rosenburg's other games, that should have been a red flag. Maybe I don't know anything because Agricola is the only one of Rosenburg's games I've played, but I don't think he has anything on Feld or any of the other mainstream Euro designers out there. I've seen reviews for his other games, and I think he's still riding that wave of success Agricola gave him.
@JosephFlemming
@JosephFlemming 6 лет назад
If you're playing with people who don't really like thinking about long term strategy would it play better?
@rahdo
@rahdo 6 лет назад
hmm, maybe?
@buddylove1002
@buddylove1002 10 лет назад
Could you link the youtube channel from the blogger you like?
@TyphoidBryan
@TyphoidBryan 10 лет назад
Ooh, seeing that the tiles are pre-set makes this game drop for me. I love Agricola's cards for the same reason you do. I would rather handle the tiles Suburbia-esque in that not all the tiles will be available in each game.
@TheJoaninhaMendes
@TheJoaninhaMendes 9 лет назад
It is exactly why i like this game. The options are available for everyone.
@MasterTSnellen
@MasterTSnellen 10 лет назад
Any final thoughts on Caverna vs Agricola yet? I'm curious to your long term opinion. :) btw very nice video!
@rahdo
@rahdo 10 лет назад
Top 10 Games of 2013 *UPDATE* :)
@MasterTSnellen
@MasterTSnellen 10 лет назад
Hey thx for the quick reply! That made things very clear haha! Great work on your video's and channel in general!
@Penchwintan33
@Penchwintan33 2 года назад
...especially when playing with more than 4 players I imagine it will be a real battle to purchase the tiles you want before everyone else.
@MrMadrakIronhide
@MrMadrakIronhide 10 лет назад
Realy like your style of review, dont agree on all the conclusions in all your reviews, but thats how it should be keep the reviews comming, and keep your final thoughts the way they are with strong opinions. keep up the good work... :)
@RayPhay
@RayPhay 10 лет назад
Why do I have to keep watching your videos of games that are no longer in print or you have to pay an arm and leg for on ebay. looks amazing. Guess I will have to get Agricola. Thanks for the video
@rbruba
@rbruba 10 лет назад
Seems like this is akin to playing Dominion with 20 or so Kingdom cards available at the beginning of the game. I do not know much of anything about Caverna, or even Agricola for that matter, to know if you could just choose a subset of tiles at the beginning of the game (like Dominion) and only have those be available for the game.
@Rattlehead989
@Rattlehead989 10 лет назад
So after many play throughs do you still prefer agricola? Cool vid btw.
@rahdo
@rahdo 10 лет назад
time will tell. i haven't played it enough to say yet :)
@rahdo
@rahdo 10 лет назад
Glauco Tabet Lima yeah, i talked about it at length here: Top 10 Games of 2013 *UPDATE*
@Alawatakima
@Alawatakima 2 года назад
Any updates to the Agricola vs Caverna debate thus far?
@rahdo
@rahdo 2 года назад
i tired the caverna forgotten folk expansion and talked about it here: ru-vid.com/video/%D0%B2%D0%B8%D0%B4%D0%B5%D0%BE-dH160jqWs-8.html but i still say agricola is superior :)
@MrJuggles2000
@MrJuggles2000 10 лет назад
Am I the only one who when you said "Dammit Jim" noticed you had a red shirt on..... Too geeky?
@rahdo
@rahdo 10 лет назад
nice one, though obviously i should have been wearing blue :)
@TeChNoWC7
@TeChNoWC7 7 лет назад
lol I find the best thing about Caverna to be the access to all the furnishings
@xspuipuke
@xspuipuke 10 лет назад
Cards do have a downside as well: one player can get all the powerful stuff and the other one doesn't. Though I agree, it's also fun to review your cards before the game and build a strategy with them. That's why neither Agricola can replace Caverna, no can the latter replace the former.
@alexmatusiak
@alexmatusiak 10 лет назад
I can't wait to get this to the table with my wife...only thing I wish is they didn't call them dwarfs! Not that I have any aversion to fantasy, I just feel the game would sit better if it was a simple early iron age life theme. That aside, your ideas on secret objectives sounds like a great house rule! One thing we love about Agricola is how tense it is, do you feel that Caverna might be too 'easy'? That is to say, have too many ways to generate points and ways to facilitate growth/survival?
@kosterix123
@kosterix123 7 лет назад
boardgamegeek.com/thread/1128291/random-selection-goals-variant Ignore my previous remark. This changes everything. I never knew...
@dabearz27
@dabearz27 10 лет назад
I think your problems with this game are very much valid. It would be interesting to hear if your opinions change with repeated plays. I enjoy Agricola. It's not one of my favorite games, but I like it. I had no interest whatsoever in getting Caverna initially, and this review proves why: This feels very similar to a video game sequel like Madden, Call of Duty, Assassin's Creed, etc..where it's just cashing in on ideas that worked before rather than coming up with something new/different (cont)
@JonaBullets
@JonaBullets 10 лет назад
***** I do enjoy your videos and the story telling and thinking out aloud you do with you play with "Jen", I do find it funny. Back on topic, I've had Agricola at the top of my Wishlist on BGG since I saw it played, and seeing this makes me want this over Agricola. I haven't played either of them, or any other game similar to this (yet). But my question to you is, my fiance and I have just recently gotten into "outside the norm board gaming" and playing, (buying) and learning new games. If you were to buy Caverna or Agricola, which would you buy? Bonus question, is it worth down the track to end up with both games in the collection?
@rahdo
@rahdo 10 лет назад
i don't see that owning both games are necessary as they're sooo similar. as for which one to get, agricola can be more brutal and challenging, but less complicated, also has more variety in its setup, and is cheaper. caverna is the opposite :) a lot of people these days seem to prefer caverna, but for me, i'm all about the agricola. that said, if you're just starting out, you might want to not jump right into the deep end of the pool, and instead go with agricola: all creatures big and small, which i've also done a runthrough for :)
@JonaBullets
@JonaBullets 10 лет назад
***** ok, so if i start with Caverna, then we can trade that copy in for a copy of Agricola :P or just have it sit there on the shelf so my collection looks big! I like the idea of the dedicated 2 player game, but then that limits it to only 2 players, i've been trying to get friends and family involved to, so I want the option of 2+ players etc. But thankyou for your reply, and TBH, from the video reviews, I enjoyed Caverna more, so see how we go, but knowing me, will probs end up with both :P
@RichardTerry
@RichardTerry 9 лет назад
While Agricola may have more higher level strategy it also requires a bit more, what I like to call, abstract setup. Player count threshold games tend to have setup that requires you to sort cards based on player count, and then when you are done re-sort them again. IE Some cards are for a 1-3 player game while others are for a 2-5 player game and so on. To me that always felt strange in Agricola. Caverna removes that by just having all your special rooms available to start and the player threshold stuff is just simply flipping a board over or not and not having to sort and shuffle a bunch of cards. Also I've seen many a game of Agricola where someone makes a plan, and then mulls over their cards and doesn't even realize that the plans they made are now moot because something happened on the board while they were looking at their card. Caverna has you always looking at the board and when something changes you see it, usually. Lastly, Caverna has more components so you will have a longer setup time, so I'd suggest getting another way to organize the game that's not just bags to hold stuff. Sewing Kit, bead sorters, tackle boxes, and the like help you to keep everything separate without having to unbag everything every game. Just open your box sorters and you eliminate about 1/2 the setup time.
@DemonmachinE
@DemonmachinE 9 лет назад
JonaBullets I have both and honestly I feel like it's worth having them both. Yes they're both farming games, yes they're both worker placement games, but they are very different in terms of how they play out overall.
@basslover1100
@basslover1100 10 лет назад
hmmm now I do not know what to do :(
@vincivader
@vincivader 10 лет назад
Man $90 is steep for a game, well hopefully i can play it online at some point.
@ericaschaidt8588
@ericaschaidt8588 6 лет назад
vincivader it is pretty steep but one thing to keep in mind is just how much you're getting with the game. You get an insane amount of cardboard tiles, And chits. You also get a massive amount of animeeples, and wooden resources. Plus the resin/plastic coal and ruby pieces. On top of the main boards and all the player boards. Plus some cards. So while pricey you are definitely getting a lot for your money in terms of quality and quantity of game components.
@Alluvian567
@Alluvian567 10 лет назад
Game design is game design. Video and board are just two sides of the same coin. Skills from one are directly applicable to the other. Or maybe I should say turn based video games. Action games are more dis-similar. Good final thoughts. I have to say I agree, my concern about analysis paralysis in this game is huge. Too much out there, and too much that can be pulled out from under you causing you to have to re-analyze mid turn. Still think the game looks fun though.
@Tulipau
@Tulipau 10 лет назад
While I understand that creating a strategy is easier with limited choices, I didn't like the secret cards in Agricola. Too much luck of the draw, and that's what I like in Caverna. All information is open and everybody has the same possibilities.
@rahdo
@rahdo 10 лет назад
hmm, we never found luck of the draw to be a problem with agricola, especially since there's so many officially sanctioned ways to get the cards. we always opted for the "get 10 of each, keep 7" approach. admittedly there are a handful of cards that are overpowered, but we just removed those :)
@Orzmott
@Orzmott 10 лет назад
Caverna = Agricola + Dwarves aka win! ;) Must have!
@windyhillbomber
@windyhillbomber 5 лет назад
5 years on, are you still of the same view (assuming you have played the game a few moves times)?
@rahdo
@rahdo 5 лет назад
unfortunately i haven't played any more :(
@jantheodorhrdy4598
@jantheodorhrdy4598 3 года назад
I dont understand people saying, they Are bot very different, very different are chess And monopoly, Agricola And caverna Are quite same both Worker placement, same Authors, in both you Are farmer And have equipment or rooms which give advantages I mean they Are little bit different not very
@rahdo
@rahdo 3 года назад
i'd say chess and monopoly are VERY VERY different :)
@Gustave154
@Gustave154 10 лет назад
Great review but i hate agricola and i love this game lol
@freejunk2
@freejunk2 10 лет назад
something strange, when I search for "caverna review" on here, your video doesn't show up for me, you might be missing more viewers who might otherwise enjoy your videos!
@NeilBlaiberg
@NeilBlaiberg 10 лет назад
Caverna = Agricola by Stefan Feld.
@hi-us6do
@hi-us6do 7 лет назад
I would like to brain storm ways of making games like Agricula or Caverna into legacy games. It would be nice to do this without having to buy any additional components considering both games cost almost $100. If anyone has any homebrew legacy rules for Agricula or Caverna, please post. I've played 2 player Agricula with all the expansions that I am looking for some variation.
@rahdo
@rahdo 7 лет назад
you'll probably get more response if you post on boardgamegeek :)
@hi-us6do
@hi-us6do 7 лет назад
Hey, I found it. Thanks. At the bottom of the page are some ideas I have. boardgamegeek.com/article/24733823#24733823
@timnickerson5389
@timnickerson5389 4 года назад
My wife & I are Big fan of Caverna, Agricola seems like you are just starving the whole time.
@rahdo
@rahdo 4 года назад
we love the extra challenge agricola provides :)
@jonathanbutt8540
@jonathanbutt8540 10 лет назад
I'm glad I haven't bought Agricola! Looks more family friendly due to less reading (cards). And IMO It's pronounce it like agriculture :-)
@stefanobradamante3293
@stefanobradamante3293 10 лет назад
nothing is better than agricola!
@rainerahlfors
@rainerahlfors 10 лет назад
I agree - I would rather have nothing than have Agricola :) That said, I like Caverna :)
@dianer9382
@dianer9382 9 лет назад
Had this thing got rid of it, 20 plays was enough for me. Solo play a joke, 2-3 MEH, 4 players seems like a sweet stop, 5-7 you fall asleep. It just feels same-y. Worst, with new players this thing really flops, as it is a point salad game and since small strategy changes can be made based on 99 percent old play for ever increasing bigger and bigger scores, new players don't stand much of a chance. This is from a reviewer about another game but it sums up this yet again rehash from this phone it in designer, "....epitome of inelegant, kitchen-sink designs that leave me feeling cold after hours of slogging through what feels like a meaningless point salad of mismatched mechanisms.". New Urban buzz phase "to Uwe Rosenberg", definition: plagiarizes himself and somehow still has fans.
@dot0verdrive
@dot0verdrive 5 лет назад
Soooooo.... He's saying that caverna is worse because other players might mess up your "high level strategy" by buying a building you want? Shouldn't we as players be a little more flexible in a playthrough? Isn't this the point of worker placement games, that you might not be able to take the items/tiles/spaces that you need and that you have to adapt? I guess I'm late to the conversation, but the critique of the game seems kind of lame. Granted, I don't own either Agricola or caverna, but it seems that he is missing the point of the whole genre, if I'm not mistaken?
@dot0verdrive
@dot0verdrive 5 лет назад
Also, this dude looks like retired Jon Stewart, lol.
@rahdo
@rahdo 5 лет назад
as i said in the video, they were initial thoughts after just one play. I was trying to get the video done quickly to coincide with michael wissner's video, but then ironically he ended up running late, so i didn't have to rush it at all! i did talk about it at more length after playing a bit more when i did my top10 of the year, and explained why caverna didn't make that list. it's not player interruption necessarily that's the issue, it's that caverna is, as you say, a tactical game, while agricola is a strategic one. because you make a very in depth plan before gameplay even starts in agricola, and as the game plays out, your core goal is to make that initial strategy work out to full effect, we enjoy agricola *MUCH MUCH* more. caverna is fine, but since it's implicitly tactical in nature (because you simply can't rely on long term plans you've made), it's fine, but simply inferior, to our tastes :)
@dot0verdrive
@dot0verdrive 5 лет назад
Hi! Thanks for addressing my comment. As someone who very much thinks the best part about playing a game is theorycrafting different and fringe strategies, I definitely can relate to your stance. However, I feel that the idea of predetermining your gamplay strategy and assuming no one will interfere with it seems to me to be both less social and competitive, while keeping you incredibly rigid in gameplay style. I did not mean to come off harsh (using words like "lame"), but I just have to disagree that the idea that one is "tactical" and the other is a "strategic" game, or that they should be separated at all in this case. One can, and definitely should, be strategic in a "tactical" game, but also have the flexibility to be reactive and pivot a strategy, should we not? I suppose I just think that part of fun of a game is the act of concealing your strategies while you try and do them out in the open. Again, I have not played either, but it just seems like mechanics for caverna seem to be superior to acricola for my tastes.
@kosterix123
@kosterix123 9 лет назад
skip the first 5 minutes of blabber, ehm skip the whole thing.
@rahdo
@rahdo 9 лет назад
Kosteri x i tend agree with that... my opinions about the game don't matter at all...
@kosterix123
@kosterix123 9 лет назад
well it's just that viewers want the objective info "right now", and i prefer a top-down approach and some terse points what exactly the reviewer likes about the topic. You can ramble about anything you like after those points.
@rahdo
@rahdo 9 лет назад
Kosteri x sorry, i was born a ramblin' man, tryin' to make a living and doin' the best I can :)
@kosterix123
@kosterix123 7 лет назад
What makes you assume I speak for other gamers?? You must have had a bad day or something. Whatever.
@kosterix123
@kosterix123 7 лет назад
Rahdo, that's ok. I enjoy 90% of your videos and podcasts :)